EoD a flop?

[Mortime.1359]

Idk I'd take anything on mmo population with a really big grain of salt considering that for the longest of time they had wildstar on their most played mmo list there even  tho the game had been shut down for 3 years at that point. I think it was Asmongold making fun of it in one of his streams after which it disappeared from the list.

[scarlettmoonbabe.6932]

20 minutes ago, Mortime.1359 said:

Idk I'd take anything on mmo population with a really big grain of salt considering that for the longest of time they had wildstar on their most played mmo list there even  tho the game had been shut down for 3 years at that point. I think it was Asmongold making fun of it in one of his streams after which it disappeared from the list.

yeah i just did some digging about their sources for the numbers they get and it's from people on reddit who are actively posting and subscribed to the games there xD oh well, it's still gotta be making some kind of buzz to show up apparently. guild wars 2 still has top 5 potential. and i believe anet can do that if they give the game the TLC it needs, along with continuing to communicate with the players. 

[SOLITWOLF.7514]

it depends on what angle we looking into. judging from the quality alone i would consider eod as a flop. but for sales? i mean most player who have pof would buy eod and a collection of 3 expac call gw2 eod collection standard... if they also count collection pack as eod sales then no wonder why eod out sales pof.

[Borked.6824]

7 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

also extra stuff like LS1 is a good signal that they have more resources now to re-invest in pararel GW2 stuff, instead of just xpac/living world.

More resources to re-release old content?  Bring on the confused reactions because I am too.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Borked.6824

[ugrakarma.9416]

6 minutes ago, Borked.6824 said:

More resources to re-release old content?  Bring on the confused reactions because I am too.

LS1 was coded in different way, because of this wasn't availible. All LS1 stuff that we already have(fractals, scrying pool) are already a re-work/re-code reusing only the models/textures.

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

On 3/23/2022 at 11:06 AM, scarlettmoonbabe.6932 said:

https://mmo-population.com/
as i post this guild wars 2 is ranked at 7th most played mmo right now. they are making a ton of cash. can't wait to see it at top 5.

Muahahahahahahahahahahaha, I'm literally rolling on the floor and having a laughing attack.

That website is basically just a clickfarm with fantasy numbers. Just scroll down their list of the MMOs and look at the user activity of games like Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard or Wildstar. Really interesting to see how lively games are supposed to be that have been shutdown for years or decades...

The only reliable indicator we get about the health of GW2 are the quarterly sales numbers NCsoft releases for their games. Neither NCsoft nor ArenaNET publish any metrics for monthly or daily active users as far as I'm aware. And there is no reliable way to gather such data from the outside for GW2.

Just because people try to estimate WoW's subscriber or user numbers via addons run by hundreds or thousands of users, it doesn't mean that those numbers are accurate or that the method works with other MMOs. Blizzard's official subscriber numbers of the past were nothing other than just feel good numbers for players and investors. Each number was a carefully selected data point from very specific dates that weren't necessarily representative of long-term trends. For example the peak number during WotLK was right after the launch of WoW in mainland China.

We will most likely have to wait till mid-Mai for NCsoft's investor relations update to see how successful EoD might have been on the sales side of things. Unless the sales are noticeably lower than the ones from Q3/21 or Q4/21 and also lower than Q1/21, EoD will be quite fine financially, no matter how much someone likes or dislikes the expansion.

Edited March 24, 2022 by TheWaternymphHC.1847
important typo

[Zok.4956]

4 hours ago, scarlettmoonbabe.6932 said:

https://mmo-population.com/
as i post this guild wars 2 is ranked at 7th most played mmo right now. they are making a ton of cash. can't wait to see it at top 5.

Those numbers in your link above are just some fantasy regarding GW2. The only reliable data is from NCsofts quarterly statements: 
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/685436537827098645/956191384333877248/gw2-sales-2012-2021.jpg

The sales in 2021 were not so bad for GW2. Thanks to Covid-19 and some things the studio did.

P.S. Usually pre-purchases for expansions are reported/included in the release quarter, so we will see a big increase in the Q1 2022 number, because the studio already announced, that the EoD sales were bigger than the PoF sales, so the sales numbers until now are not a flop . And if the sales in Q2,Q3,Q4/2022 could be stabilized around 20000 KRW per quarter, it would be very good news for the studios revenue.

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Zok.4956

[Darklord Roy.2514]

5 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I’d expect future releases from Anet to be as rushed, buggy and poorly implemented the same as IBS and EoD have been. 

I don't really understand how you think IBS and EoD are on the same level. IBS was very clearly all of the above, but EoD has been the least problematic expansion that Anet has released to date. The issues at hand are nothing at all compared to when HoT or PoF released. You may not have been around or remember those, but they were HORRIBLE at release with how unplayable the game was.

[Obtena.7952]

It's cute when Doomers be doomin'

Angry people just wanting the game to do badly. It's sad to see. 

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Zok.4956]

5 minutes ago, Darklord Roy.2514 said:

The issues at hand are nothing at all compared to when HoT or PoF released. You may not have been around or remember those, but they were HORRIBLE at release with how unplayable the game was.

HoT and PoF were not horrible at release and were not unplayable. The be fair: The same goes for IBS and EoD.

[Jumpel.3972]

5 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

HoT and PoF were not horrible at release and were not unplayable. The be fair: The same goes for IBS and EoD.

Be stuck in the first story in PoF and so not able to join PoF map without a TP to friend make it unplayable for a lot of people.

For HoT I don't remember if it had some issues but I remember a lottttttt of hotfix and people giving up because of the difficulty 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Jumpel.3972

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

22 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Those numbers in your link above are just some fantasy regarding GW2. The only reliable data is from NCsofts quarterly statements: 
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/685436537827098645/956191384333877248/gw2-sales-2012-2021.jpg

The sales in 2021 were not so bad for GW2. Thanks to Covid-19 and some things the studio did.

You should actually link to NCsoft's investor relations page and not some random graphics (even if correct) on discord:

IR Presentations - NCsoft

[Malus.2184]

6 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

Does capitalistic market economy forbid the use of proper punctuation?

How to express, "I have no argument yet I'm subconsciously triggered by your correct statement that completely disproves the original opinion," without saying it.

[Darklord Roy.2514]

1 hour ago, Zok.4956 said:

HoT and PoF were not horrible at release and were not unplayable. The be fair: The same goes for IBS and EoD.

They absolutely were, that isn't an opinion it is factual data from the release of both expansions. You may not have personally had issues, but HoT and PoF were both SIGNIFICANTLY buggier than EoD on launch and PoF in particular had absolutely massive server issues that were booting a large percentage of players out of the game at random times for nearly the entire first week of launch. There were also many more story lockouts in both previous expansions.

 

You may have thought I meant that the *content* was horrible, which it wasn't and I didn't intend for my comment to come off that way. I love those expansions, but EoD launch has been a piece of cake by comparison.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Darklord Roy.2514

[Mungo Zen.9364]

2 hours ago, Darklord Roy.2514 said:

I don't really understand how you think IBS and EoD are on the same level. IBS was very clearly all of the above, but EoD has been the least problematic expansion that Anet has released to date. The issues at hand are nothing at all compared to when HoT or PoF released. You may not have been around or remember those, but they were HORRIBLE at release with how unplayable the game was.

I was not comparing prior releases to IBS and EoD, I was stating that these releases have been poorly delivered on their own merit, and I expect the trend to continue with future releases.  You may argue they have gotten better, but being better doesn't mean it's good enough.

If you think EoD is great, good for you.  It feels to me that every time I log in I am running into yet another issue with an achievement, event or interaction that may or may not be fixed in the future.  I would rather be playing the game than tabbed out looking up whether or not the issue I am experiencing is a bug or not.  Yet every day I am looking on the Wiki and Forum to find out if this new bit of content I am playing is actually functioning properly rather than actually playing the game.

[Darklord Roy.2514]

2 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I was not comparing prior releases to IBS and EoD, I was stating that these releases have been poorly delivered on their own merit, and I expect the trend to continue with future releases.  You may argue they have gotten better, but being better doesn't mean it's good enough.

If you think EoD is great, good for you.  It feels to me that every time I log in I am running into yet another issue with an achievement, event or interaction that may or may not be fixed in the future.  I would rather be playing the game than tabbed out looking up whether or not the issue I am experiencing is a bug or not.  Yet every day I am looking on the Wiki and Forum to find out if this new bit of content I am playing is actually functioning properly rather than actually playing the game.

That's a fair assertion, if a bit pessimistic. There are definitely still kinks to iron out of the expansion, but with their current motivation to put out some decent sized patches between now and May I'm still hopeful they'll get a lot of those smaller bugs and problems addressed in the coming weeks.

 

I completely understand that it can feel frustrating playing the game without actually "playing" the game, but I also think the community as a whole gives Anet a really hard time about everything. At the end of the day we have to remember that they're still just people and that they're a relatively small company when compared to a lot of the other giants out there like Blizzard, so sometimes it can take them a little longer to fix some of the less pressing issues.

[Bookah pls.9352]

17 hours ago, erapago.4387 said:

Incorrect. WoW's population likely peaked 14 years ago with Wrath of the Lich King. They then stopped reporting numbers after years of decline.

 

No idea what you're falling for but it isn't reality.

 

When companies boast about outselling their previous title, it's based on day 1 purchases which include preorders. PoF could have sold 1 million copies day 1, then a further 500 billion copies during its lifespan, even if Eod sold  just 1.1 million copies on day 1 it would be marketed as outselling PoF.

Marketing is literally the art of spinning anything into a positive about the product.

Unless you're saying that you believe EoD has sold more copies in less than 1 month than PoF did in just under 5 years?

Edited March 23, 2022 by Bookah pls.9352

[Ashen.2907]

13 hours ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

EoD isn’t a flop. There were some sketchy design choices re features but overall was pretty polished. Consider the difference to a normal modern release where most games are released barely in a state for beta. It’s a solid B+ as far as xpacs for MMOs go. 
 

I also reckon they can turn it round in terms of the failings. It’s not like it’s all bad either. The music is great, the story is good, the elite specs are getting work done, the maps are pretty cool and the new system for veterans / elites not being brain dead is pretty neat too. Fishing is nice too. Weirdly addictive and based on the low prices for fish fillets on the AH, a few others are doing a lot of it too. The turtle mount needs work to be relevant and skiffs are just fishing platforms currently (though I wouldn’t say no to a skiff race championship similar to beetle racing).

Living world season 1 isn’t even that bad, people have been vocal about it for aaaaaaages. It’s also a great chance for new players to see the scarlet wars in nice chunks with potentially nice rewards (and a chance at the back pieces). 

For those comparing to wow. It cost $29.99 for EoD and $39.99 for Shadowlands with a sub, and if you are or were a wow player, you know the dumpster fire that shadowlands is after the dumpster fire of BFA and how this next expac is make or break for wow for so many reasons. Anet are not remotely in the same position. 

Nothing aainst anything else said here but keep in mind that prices are as much determined by demand as by supply. If fillets are cheap it could be an indication that they are not desired.

[Pyriel.4370]

32 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Nothing aainst anything else said here but keep in mind that prices are as much determined by demand as by supply. If fillets are cheap it could be an indication that they are not desired.

True but they are needed for the turtle. I also said a few might be doing it a lot 🙂 I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but brings a nice bit of downtime after a stressful DE meta run.

[Thundabolt.8541]

I love the sheer amount of confused reactions in this, I'm pretty sure I read a title saying that EoD was a flop, then the actual post saying it was a success, and then that being replied to as if the opposite had been said

 

What is going on here? Lmao

[Mungo Zen.9364]

23 minutes ago, Thundabolt.8541 said:

I love the sheer amount of confused reactions in this, I'm pretty sure I read a title saying that EoD was a flop, then the actual post saying it was a success, and then that being replied to as if the opposite had been said

 

What is going on here? Lmao

OP was making a sarcastic statement.

[mindcircus.1506]

17 hours ago, Mortime.1359 said:

Yeah, I think city of heroes was also doing well. At least well enough that the developers were right in the middle of making a new update when ncsoft pulled the carpet out from under their feet and shut the studio and the game down.

City of Heroes was not "doing well".... not by a long shot.
City of Heroes was gradually dying. It's revenue was dropping every quarter. While it was still earning a profit, the game was gradually heading to a place where it would not. 
Nothing stopped the slow decline in revenue, not the Going Rogue expac, not the Free 2 play conversion, not predatory lootboxes, not selling BiS enhancements on the cash shop.
The game was not growing despite many attempts to inject life into it. It was milking it's loyal customers with more and more cash shop items, and eventually even the most ardent fans (myself included) were reaching a tipping point. Without attracting new players and having exhausted the monetization of their existing fan base things were looking very bad.

At which point parent company NCSoft seeded Paragon studios with a bunch of cash and ordered the studio to begin work on a City of Heroes 2.

In a podcast several years after the shutdown, one of the developers admitted, that while the studio did indeed receive the cash, they did not use it to start developing a sequel and instead were working, in secret on a completely different game.
It didn't take long before NCSoft found out and canned the game and studio.

Casting NCSoft as a corproate bully that shut down a beloved game doesn't address Paragon Studio's fraud.
This is a studio that after the news of the shutdown became clear, knowingly transferred it's server code and it's client database (including payment info, CC Numbers, home addresses) to a well known community member in order to facilitate establishing a private server.

It's a fun narrative to paint NCSoft as some kind of evil company that shut down a beloved game despite it still being popular. It's a narrative I have myself been guilty of signal boosting in the past.
It is however not nearly that simple. A little digging shows a much more complicated story that is not a good look for the former developers.

[Blood.7254]

On 3/23/2022 at 9:06 AM, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I’d expect future releases from Anet to be as rushed, buggy and poorly implemented the same as IBS and EoD have been. 
 

Y’all may have enjoyed EoD and I also enjoyed parts of it too. But overall there have been enough issues (many still unresolved) with this release that I have basically stopped playing.  
 

I don’t have free time to be wasted, roadblocked by game issues that should never have gone live. 

But you've no right to be disappointed with your purchase because there are other mmo releases that were worse at launch. In comparison this is great. I'm having fun. /s

 

My issue is integrity. Anet botching finale of IBS and pretending as if it's a genious move with "fun" content like Dragon Response Missions, disregarding any and all complaints as if they never existed. Complaints from people who love their past releases and content. Complaints from people who were part of the game's community for years, from people who did Anet's marketing on social media for them, from people who got their friends/family into GW2, from people who spent a lot of money on GW2 thinking it's fine cause they're supporting a developer who has integrity.

 

We were more or less disappointed with IBS finale, but we were thinking the new expansion would be worth it. It wasn't. EoD's value, in retrospect, cannot be judged on its own as a standalone product. And even if it could it would still come up short. EoD's value should be seen through a prism of making the botching of IBS finale worth it, something EoD has failed to do on pretty much all fronts.

 

It's due to this that I lost faith in hoping for the best with the next shiny release, with the next shiny hype... cause there's a theme here. A theme coinciding with the latest changes in NCsoft's Arenanet.

 

I'm happy the game is doing well numbers wise, but I don't enjoy it anymore. I'm happy I was there for the "golden age" of GW2. I sincerely think we have peaked already and are on a steady decline.  People will have to realize some day that the quantity of the players does not represent the quality of the product.  Once you lose your players' trust, it's very hard to get it back.

 

 

[GalenWolffit.3842]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:58 PM, lezbefriends.7516 said:

So according to the news, EoD was such a success that we're getting another expansion, LW1, a completely new living world, Steam launch and balance patches. This is exactly what we were getting a year ago.

 

In other words, they spun the reality that EoD didn't have much of an impact into "EoD was a resounding success." Bravo!

 

 

A year ago we weren't getting LW1, we were getting a single fight from LW1.  Now we're getting MORE.

 

A year ago we weren't getting 2 expansions on top of HOT and POF, we were getting 1 (EOD). They delivered EOD, and it brought in record sales.  Now they're planning another expansion yet to be named, that wasn't in the cards last year.

 

A year ago we weren't expecting another new living world season, now we are.

 

A year ago we weren't expecting regular balance patches, now we are.

 

The only thing on your list that is something we were already expecting from a year ago is steam launch.

[mindcircus.1506]

15 minutes ago, GalenWolffit.3842 said:

A year ago we weren't getting 2 expansions on top of HOT and POF, we were getting 1 (EOD). They delivered EOD, and it brought in record sales. 

What record did it break? All that was said is it outsold PoF. PoF didnt exactly light the gaming world on fire or set any records. It sold less copies than Heart of Thorns.

15 minutes ago, GalenWolffit.3842 said:

A year ago we weren't expecting another new living world season, now we are.

The developers said nothing about a new season of LW. Only a vague promise of a new map at some point in the future.

15 minutes ago, GalenWolffit.3842 said:

A year ago we weren't expecting regular balance patches, now we are.

We most certainly were expecting them.
We were promised them and never got them.

Edited March 24, 2022 by mindcircus.1506