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Make Vow of the Untamed 50%


Mell.4873

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It would be neat if there was more to the form. Without a hammer it's virtually nothing. I never use it because of how clunky it is. A Switching Forms mechanic should not be used if it isn't fleshed out and it feels unfinished. It really feels empty.

Edited by Redfeather.6401
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I doubt this would happen without a conditional. Maybe 20 or 25% additional player DPS to immob or CC-ed targets in PVE only for Fervent Force instead of Ferocious Symbiosis (15% always but has a ramp time). This way you have the option of burst into CC versus a ramp up. The precedent has been set with Twice as Vicious on Soulbeast (10%) and Predator's Onslaught (15%).

That said, it should be a top CC spec, similar to spellbreaker rather than generic DPS. I don't know if Arenanet is open to improving immobilize to 100 CC per second in PVE (currently 50/second) but at the very least some sort of PVE-oriented change needs to happen as untamed is slated to be remotely usable in PVP , unlikely in WVW and likely never in any place in instanced PVE when you don't need to rip boons.

If you want to make untamed more than just another DPS I think defiance bar value needs to be increased in PVE as moment of clarity only works with stun and daze. The way that CC can be added is all untamed knockdowns cause a launch of 0 distance at the same time akin to Gravity Well , rangers have launch 0 on Spike trap. Maybe this can be added onto Enhancing Impact : knockdowns also launch 0.  For example on exploding spores it could do a launch 0 distance in conjunction with knockdown 2s which means you rip stability if it's PVP but it makes the CC value 232 or 332 +200 = 432 to 532. Nature's Binding would also have to trigger up to 600CC (4s *150 knockback), but that isn't used on a DPS build.

Relentless Whirl ambush could use more damage on it since it has roughly the same as an autochain while taking longer. Wild Swing shouldn't have a damage penalty as cripple is so low value on ranger.

With moment of clarity you're looking at 287 on overbearing smash on 12s base cooldown. In exchange for using it on unleash pet you lose the boon rip potential from unleashed overbearing smash, damage to the tune of 0.85 coefficient (~38%), and the Vow of Untamed bonus.

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1 trait don't solve the problem. If this trait need more rework, than it is to apply the effects to the pet too. 
The dps now is not extremely low, not a soul beast of course, but playable. 
I think we lack trait options:

  • minor traits: first 2 are Ok, Vow of the Untamed is the topic of this post
  • Adept:
    • Debilitating Blows: Ok, but we lack CC
    • Nature's Shield: cantrips are bad, and not lowering cd doesn't help. If you need barrier: "Protect me!"
    • Blinding Outburst: Natural best choice, actually it is good
  • Master: (nothing, that actually need in any build, they are nice, but all depends on situations) 
    • Enhancing Impact: good, but we lack CC, hammer cc skills are pet unleashed side, so they give only stability
    • Cleansing Unleash: nice, feels a bit little, but useful
    • Corrupting Vines: more boon-strip. It depends, but useful 
  • Grandmaster
    • Fervent Force: the pianist trait. Makes some interesting builds.
    • Restorative Strikes: Simple. The other options better. Same as necro and thief, expect we have lower dps.
    • Ferocious Symbiosis: steady dps with most pets. It has some build up time, but simple and pet oriented.  If you dont use Fervent Force for your build (lack of cc) then best choice.

So we go with Blinding Outburst, random master trait, and Ferocious Symbiosis.
Or we go with Fervent Force, and make a whole build around it: like condi build with hammer or full cc with very low damage. 
Usually we use Exploding Spores for cc, but seriously, delayed spell with effective range (for cc and max damage) of ~1. Who thought it will be a good idea?!

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Vow of the Untamed does not need to be buffed percentage-wise. Untamed actually has good +% damage increases between Vow and Ferocious Symbiosis. The only change to Vow should be to also have it affect the pet.

Untamed is not a pure DPS Specialization, nor should it be. That being said, it's lack of appreciable DPS comes from the Ranger's core mechanic: the pets. With full boons and Beastmastery trained, the high DPS pets only do ~4k on stationary targets. To buff Untamed's (and core's) power damage, fixing pets AI and buffing their power coefficients would be the most beneficial.

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7 hours ago, Diak Atoli.2085 said:

Untamed is not a pure DPS Specialization, nor should it be. That being said, it's lack of appreciable DPS comes from the Ranger's core mechanic: the pets. With full boons and Beastmastery trained, the high DPS pets only do ~4k on stationary targets. To buff Untamed's (and core's) power damage, fixing pets AI and buffing their power coefficients would be the most beneficial.

I’m partially worried about Untamed not being a dps class because it doesn’t fulfill any other meaningful role. Lots of people compare it to a Spellbreaker as a CC / Brawler class, but that unfortunately a dead role in PvE, no one really brings a class for the sole purpose of doing breakbars. That’s a role that’s typically shared amongst the entire group.

But regardless, yes, Ranger pets need to be buffed, fixed, or reworked to actually pull their weight. One of the biggest concerns people pointed out is that an elite focused on our pets won’t work since our pet is so weak, and that if there were any significant changes to suddenly make the pets actually function then that shouldn’t be a change locked behind an elite. Comparing to Mechanist (the favorite comparison to make), Engineers don’t lose any real coefficients or scaling with their Mech, and then at the same time their Mech gets so many bonuses and contribution to their overall performance. I don’t know exactly how Mechanist performs in WvW or PvP, but in PvE at least the pet can pose a significant force. Ranger pets should emulate that.

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