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Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]

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@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Tuskeh.4697 said:For instance, I recently got a Tequatl's Hoard chest from the World Boss in Sparkfly Fen, which contains the player's choice of one ascended weapon from a selection. These weapons are the highest-tier items in the game. I was ecstatic, leafing through my options like a kid in a candy store. I had an incentive (kill the big dragon knowing that I had a chance to get some cool stuff), a challenge (kill the big dragon with an army of other players), and a reward (big dragon falls into the water, chest of cool stuff). There was an element of randomization here in what loot I got, but once the loot was acquired, the reward was in my hands, and I could define what that reward could be with the weapon selection.

I'm willing to consider siding with people against the mount adoption RNG here but only if they criticize all forms of RNG, and not just specific to gem related RNG. Either all RNG is bad or it's not, and skins that are ONLY available through RNG means should be considered bad as well.I am much more shocked at practices that gate some content like that, which is RNG AND Timegated AND Account Bound than a few mount skins that have no timegate and very "limited" RNG, and that you can simply farm gold to gems.Again, if the mount adoption licenses were in gold and sold to an in game merchant not half of the people here would complain, even though it's the exact same problem.

Same with ecto gambling, it is RNG. It involves real money (it's just hidden being a gold amount, but it's basically the same), but people aren't complaining as much, even though it's been in game forever.

Why are people waking up just now? Because they really, really want these skins (unlike BL weapons), and not because there's anything new with how Anet does things.

That is a silly sentiment/standard to have. RNG is a perfectly fine design tool/method to have for a video game.

If you cannot see the difference between gambling with ILR money-RNG and in-game loot-based RNG then... I dunno.

I honestly don't fathom not being able to tell how they are obviously different.

That's your mistake. As I said, lots of RNG content in this game has a value, either in mats or gold (ecto gambling), which... can be paid with IRL money.Just like you can get these RNG skins with GOLD instead of IRL money.

Somehow one is okay, and not the other.

Oh and no, timegated + RNG + account bound is not a fine design, at all. It's purely made to make you grind countless days for a hope to get the skin, with no way of slowing working towards it or buying through TP.Time is money. And yes you can always say "then don't do it", but I could just answer "then don't buy it".

Exact same problem.

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Ironically, I much prefer the Mount Stable boxes over the "can only get in Black Lion Chest, maybe" items (at least with the Mount Stable, one does get a skin--unfortunately the gross mistake in presenting this to your customers has been what skin they do get is random. Folks do not like random.)

Then there's the latest Wild Magic Glider/Backpack, for instance. Especially after using 45 keys and not getting it, truthfully I'm fairly babymad about it. :p I deeply resent not being able to just buy stuff outright with Gems. I think the whole general consensus that the "can only get in Black Lion Chest, maybe" super sucks because those items are normally obtainable by just buying them directly from the Gem Store--gliders, weapon skins, and outfits, for instance--so them being stuffed into a BLC is a really frustrating and unwelcome way to obtain them. The Permanent Contracts, on the other hand, are only obtainable via the Black Lion Chests, so its generally expected that's the only way to get them.

And silly me, I purchase quite a number of Black Lion Keys when they were on sale a few months ago. After it taking 90 keys to get the Jackal Pup and still not getting the Wild Magic Glider/Backpack after opening 45 boxes, I will never, ever purchase Black Lion Keys again. You know that old adage, "Fool me once..."

ANet, if you want to--yet again--rise above all other MMO developers with the way you present various aspects of your game, please consider, seriously consider, rethinking how you present items in the Gem Store. It really is not okay to have a number of Gem Store items stuffed into gambling boxes--not when your customers are infinitely more inclined to just outright buy an item instead of gambling for it.

Now, admittedly, I have never converted gold to Gems. Yes, I am one of those notorious 'whales' everyone is lamenting about. There is a tremendous reality that we all have to consider when it comes to items in the Gem Store: how many Gems (purchased with real money) VS Gems (converted from gold) are being used to purchase all these shinies from the Gem Store? You know, that may very well be why some of these items we want are stuffed behind gambling boxes--so many Gems being spent are converted from gold instead of real money nowadays--they gotta make things more expensive (via outright cost or stuffed behind gambling boxes) to make up for that (read this thread, for instance... https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7bkijr/7_years_of_anet_ingame_shop_cosmetics/ ...it discusses how costs of Gem Store items have risen over the years.) As a game ages, more in-game money is earned/stockpiled by its players. The general population of the game has a lot more in-game money now than it did during the first few years of the game.

Anyways, bottom line: I want all the shinies. Let me be able to buy them outright. Please. :)

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@Danikat.8537 said:A possible compromise I saw on Twitter and liked:

Keep the RNG option as it is but add a 600-800 gem Adoption Licence which lets you choose the skin you want. That way people who want to gamble still have the chance to get a lucky (cheap) drop, but people who only want a few specific skins or are otherwise unwilling to gamble can get them directly.

Problem with that is that the majority of the mount skins aren't really worth more than 400 Gems as they are pure retextures.

I'd argue that a 400 Gems for those, and 600 Gems for the fancier ones with new model and/or sfx would be a much fairer deal.

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I have been struggling to log in for the last couple months. I have lost all desire to play but I always enjoyed the anticipation of being able to purchase the seasonal and story tied skins. Some I liked and some I refuse to purchase due to a bad case of the 'uglies'.

I was looking forward to skins for the mounts but this costly and random option of acquiring them is, in my opinion, a horrible idea. As much as I would like some or all of the new mount skins, I will be refusing to purchase them. Not because they are ugly but because I prefer to purchase only the skins I wish to have and not gamble with random boxes that may give me nothing I want. I have no desire to waste money, in game gold or real life money, on a random chance.

I am very disappointed that ArenaNet decided to market the mount skins in this manner. Please rethink this gambling adoption farce and make the skins available in the Black Lion. Thank you.

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@Shadowhearth.4803 said:idc for the whole new skins in the shop being RNG but what i am sad about is that there is no skins for non gem players hiding all these skins behind a pay wall is really bad other mmos have mounts in their games which can be obtain via achievements , quests, crafting or even drops why cant we get this as well?

For the same reasons they put outfits in the gemstore, severely limited the rate you could farm BLC keys in game, and made getting your own small 1/2 person guild to make storage easier on you almost impossible now. They want you to buy things from the BLTP for real money and don't care if the practices they are enacting are predatory.

For everyone saying the term "testing the waters" that's like saying a doctor today is still testing to see if the Polio vaccine is effective at stopping Polio. This has been tested time and again in other games and MMOs in particular. The affects of these things on people with addictive personalities has been studied extensively. This was a business decision made on greed and not on what was best for the players and ironically for the company.

They had a chance for a real win here. They could have offered up the extra dye channel mount skins for 400 a pop and the "cooler" ones for 800 a pop and I'm sure MANY people (myself included) would have probably dropped some real money on numerous ones. Instead they chose this RNG BS making it so many of us are just refusing to entertain any skins now, ever and worse some of these people are new players that are being put off from the game completely soon after the release of this expansion.

Sure hope those whales have fat enough wallets for you Anet.

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@Jimmy.8402 said:I hope people eventually come around like this. Just because you probably won’t get the mount you want RIGHT NOW, doesn’t mean that you won’t get it eventually, and doesn’t mean that the one you got this week or this month is totally worthless. Own it. Enjoy it. Make it yours, at least in the mean time. I, personally, like having something to work towards. And I like that not EVERYBODY is running around on a fiery griffon.

Now if only what you said related to some really difficult, time-consuming, in-game activity. Earning that mount. Working on it, slowly, piece by piece.

Instead it's an addiction-exploiting shill of a "rewards system" which relies on people being unable to curb their desire to not be left behind, while trying to make them unaware of the average cost of the 1-2 items they'll actually end up using in the end.

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@Wizler.8192 said:

@Myrdreth.6829 said:What happens if you already got a certain skin and get it again?

"Every license guarantees the successful adoption of a unique breed, so it’s easy to make room in your heart for all of them."

My take on this statement from ArenaNet is you won't get duplicates.

You won't get any duplicates, but you may get skins for a mount don't even own which is even worse!!

Both the Jackal and Griffon are not needed to complete PoF yet you may unlock one of those skins and not even be able to use it. Think about that as well.

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Disappointments pretty much covers it. Recently there's been a long string of bad press on company wanting to squeeze all the money they can from gamers via practice like lootbox, and when I see those videos or discussions I thought about how Anet does it with the BL chests and while BL chests are a long practice, how Anet's business philosophy isn't purely about cash-grabbing as companies like EA or Ubisoft or Activation.

But with this RNG of 30 skin, it really feels like Anet too jumped on the lootbox/gambling/RNG wagon. I really thought better of you guys.

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@Zaklex.6308 said:No danger, no harm, no loss...therefore no RISK.** If you say you lost gems, you didn't, because you still got a skin(whether it's one you wanted or not is immaterial).

Incorrect. If you get something that has no value to you (a skin you did not want and will not use) you have risked your time, effort, and money and lost.

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i dont think gambling for mount skins is directly bad. i just think putting 30 out, with not a single option to get one through events/quests/achievments to really play for is bad. pof really has a weak endgame and no reason to play it after story and some collections (that are kinda unfun anyway with 100g+ exotics each). i rather want more achievments or reasons to play besides farming in hot. i also dont like the direction this takes, first with the balthasar outfit only accessible through blc gambling. if keys would be less expencive or easier to get or an alternate way to get it would be good. maybe a ticket system, like 1 ticket per box and with like idk 15 tickets you can choose an uncommen reward so you can get the outfit or bag skin either way. also would like to either have bundles of some sort for the skins or a way to get certain skins, i get it that there are some "basic" skins and some "high effect super nice ones" but 5 bucks for a chance is quite expencive, esp for some that are just lazy remodels with bigger spikes/horns or something. these easily could be implemented as ingame reward for quests or something. some skins do look too much like legendaries, esp. the stardust/galaxy ones. they could be implemented as sort of achievment or something.

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Ok guys really, look at the mount skins which came out now. They are not creative. They are just reskins. I dont have anything about reskins. They can look cool. But on the other hand every Mount thats in the gambling box has an overall look of an allredy released weapon or armor or outfit skin. It cant be much of a work they had implemented for thouse skins. They had maybe just 1 dev working on thouse new skins. And he prssed just a few buttons to mix few skins together. I have nothing against it. I can implement thouse new mount skins into my other skins. But after all when they hide everything behind RNG boxes. Thats even more outraging.

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Yay more Loot Boxes Just what gaming needed... GW2 has always been one of the few games i can point at and say They got it mostly right with your cash shop But not today.

Like it or not For some players cosmetics are a huge part of their game And Guild Wars 2 has often been nick named Fashion wars 2 for a reason and we all love how easy it is to customize and personalize your characters. I heard about this on you tube and I just had to join this and say That i am tired.. I am tired of seeing loot boxes in every game I am tired of the outrage and frustration when i see it So for this I am very disappointed Anet.. I have stuck with you for years Defended you from friends who have long since quit for various reasons and today I'm just Disappointed and sad that you are moving down the same road as other Greedy companies just a little deeper.

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Welp, it looks like Jim Stirling is gonna cover this Mount Skin thing. And knowing him, he won't be saying anything nice: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7bm3z0/a_storm_is_brewing/

Everyone at Arenanet worked for years to restore the studio's reputation after HoT. One of the reasons I'm so passionate about this game is because I see how much its creators care about their work and their audience. And now all that effort is gone. Jim Stirling is a very influential voice. When he speaks, people listen, and he's about to pillory the game.

That'll mean fewer new players coming in to try out Guild Wars. Lower populations as old players leave and don't get replaced. Less revenue to support further development. It's not going to kill the game, but it'll seriously impact future growth.

Mike himself emphasized the importance of word-of-mouth just a few months ago, talking about how it can make or break an MMO. He asked us to spread the good word and bring people into the game. We've been doing that, and we still want to do that. Problem is, this whole incident is about to make that job a thousand times harder. Negative word-of-mouth will turn people off of trying the game, and we all lose.

Gaile, I know you're still reading this, and despite some of the irrational hatred being thrown around in here, I know you care. So please take this message to heart: You can still fix this. All Arenanet needs to do is remove the random chance element. Get rid of that, you'll get rid of the anger. Don't just eat the negative PR. You don't deserve it.

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@Turk.5460 said:If this is more profitable than players individually buying skins, then I hope anet doesn't give in here and change it. Many posters here make it seem like they think they are entitled to easy access of the purely cosmetic items they want, not stopping to think that this is a free to play game. The company needs funds to continue to provide us with a free to play game.

If this proves more profitable, then I hope they continue with this type of practice for future neat items.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

People are saying (repeatedly I might add) that they are willing to throw money at Anet if they were able to buy the thing they wanted, and because of the RNG they are literally refusing to drop ANY money now, or in the future.

Let's be clear: That means NO money to Anet because they tried to do a money grab hoping people would gamble to get the skin they wanted instead of just selling the skins and letting people decide what they wanted.

So, by continuing with your line of thought:Anet needs money to keep running so the next xpac they should sell it in 15 dollar packs. Some people MIGHT get most of it on one payment, but it could take 6 payments to get the whole xpac in one go and if you just want the whole thing without RNG just pay 65 dollars in the first week before it launches and call it a day. Its fair, not a gamble and they need the money right? Totally fair right? No, of course not. Thats ridiculous, and so is the RNG for these mounts. What next? Outfit loot box? Why bother letting people choose outfits for their toons anymore right? Its just cosmetic.


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Hereby vowing to never spend another dollar on this game. You all are shameless and do not deserve my money. GW2 is the game it is because of its community, and the developers see no problem exploiting them via underhanded business practices. They do not deserve us. Good luck next quarterly!

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@Todd.6573 said:

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:There are a lot of conversations about the mount adoption option that was
. Many of the comments in the individual threads repeat ones made by the same person in another thread. We very much want to hear your feedback, but have found that a single feedback thread offers the best opportunity for you to share your thoughts and for us to review it in the context of a wider set of feedback.

So here's a thread into which you're invited to post your thoughts on the subject of the Black Lion Stables Mount Skins.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Here's a thought, how do you justify having an expansion that most would say lack rewarding content, and then, a month after release, you throw in a patch adding 31 mounts and various other skins, all behind paywalls, but NOT A SINGLE one added as base content.Seriously?You're heading down a slippery slope real fast, and even people like me who don't mind spending some cash in games are getting worried...

Exactly, does anyone honestly think these 31 skins were designed recently? I am guessing some were being designed while POF was being worked on. What content did we not get in POF because resources were not available to work on this?

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The integrity of the game is gone, obnoxious korean-mmo looking mounts for 120$? this is the shit that set guild wars apart, and kept the playerbase proud and superior.

on top of that, if you have been playing PoF since launch, and decide to buy the mount skins now, there is NOTHING to do with them; all of the content you are doing is either instanced or repetitive shit you have been doing for the past years.

make the mount skins have class, not just vomit blobs of effects

let them be individually purchased, no RNG nonsense

price them whatever you want to compensate lack of funds you get from exploiting whale gambling addicts.

add some skins to the game so we actually have things to do and work for.

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@UrMom.4205 said:The rng is trash. Stop with this. What you should have done, is take the low end skins from the 30 and add them in game as possible event rewards, collections, quests, whatever. Then just sell the flashy ones for a flat price of gems....but not 2k gems like that other new skin. 2k gems for one new skin, that's literally almost the price of the expansion. That's just absurd.

Anet doesn't care about content replayability as this kind of suggestion has been made time and time again on the forums since the game launched. Its not like they don't know its something players want. THEY just want the money and unfortunately with dwindling player base and lower quarterly numbers they are scrambling for any way to bleed a rock.

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@Nile.5614 said:Here's the real way to "fix" this, or at least make it less of a sting to people that don't want a large pool chance.Because I doubt the RNG aspect is going to be removed, it's just kinda how these things work nowadays.Why aren't these being treated like gemstore dye kits?

  1. Purchase a Mount Adoption License.
  2. Double-click to use the item once purchased.
  3. Select from a prompt window of what type of mount you'd rather adopt: Raptor, Springer, Skimmer, Jackal, Griffon.
  4. Now the RNG is restricted to only ONE type of mount.
  5. This makes targeting easier. This makes people happier with the concept. It makes it less painful and less obviously exploitative.

EDIT:And one more thing. The "natural" mount skins should be just obtainable in game. The special ones, like Pyroclast for the Jackal or any of the "magical" ones? Those probably can stay where they are.

There would still be problems but it would solve a biggie. Right now this can 'give' you a skin for a mount you did not have. So if you never intend to get the griffon but unlock a griffon skin that is 400 gems up in smoke.

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I would honestly buy some of these if you could simply pick the ones you want. However, since they're hidden behind this kind of system, I will not be getting a single one. It's quite disappointing to see a dev I actually have a lot of respect for go further down this road (the elemental sword thing was annoying, but at least you could buy the selection box in game later on).

Also, why not put at least a few of these in the game as really long term rewards. Some of those skins compete with legendaries and it would have been really cool to put them into PoF as super longer term goals. I know that the lack of those types of rewards seems to be the number one complaint of an otherwise fantastic expansion, so if you followed both of these things, you'd be solving two issues.

I really hope you change how this is implemented. I'd love to buy some of these since it's clear the creators have put in a lot of work on many of them. Please rethink this. You're better than this.

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