Current state of mechanist class promotes degenerative gameplay

[rune.9572]

Lately I've noticed thie following patern:

1. mechanist joins squad

2. mechanist  wipes to 1st instadown mechanic (no pun intended)

3. mechanist gets mad and leaves

Please address the faceroll open world carry potential of this spec. People get used to it and join serious parties expecting to faceroll while not knowing mechanics of the encounter.  I don't want to ask for LI for stupid things like the aetherblade strike or ankka, but I will have to begin if this continues.

Thanks. :)

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by rune.9572

[Valisha.8650]

Open world, especially core Tyria, teaches bad habits overall. Bad builds, bad playstyles, low reflexes. It is not a matter of mechanist.

[rune.9572]

Other open world builds don't do 20k while spamming boons, barrier, heals and cleansing just by smashing face on the keyboard. The problem is people get used to it and think it will carry them through actual mechanics.

It's even worse than firebrand because open world firebrand at least dies to condi since using tomes requires some actual thought.

Edited March 26, 2022 by rune.9572

[SleepyBat.9034]

9 minutes ago, rune.9572 said:

Lately I've noticed thie following patern:

1. mechanist joins squad

2. mechanist  wipes to 1st instadown mechanic (no pun intended)

3. mechanist gets mad and leaves

Please address the faceroll open world carry potential of this spec. People get used to it and join serious parties expecting to faceroll while not knowing mechanics of the encounter.  I don't want to ask for LI for stupid things like the aetherblade strike or ankka, but I will have to begin if this continues.

Thanks. 🙂

 

These problems sound like they have nothing to do with the Mechanist.

[rune.9572]

If it wasn't starting to become a trend, I wouldn't have made this topic.

Look, I get it, all the newfound engi enjoyers are in full force on the forums instantly jumping in to defend their faceroll cheese class. Come on, it's painfully obvious.

Edited March 26, 2022 by rune.9572

[Valisha.8650]

Guess what; When there is a new class people enjoy, they try to take this character to a more advanced content they never touched before. They would be wiped no matter if they were playing mechanist, scourge, or anything else. This actually happened to me on necro long time ago. They need to learn. You should be happy that many people are trying end-game content, lol.

[rune.9572]

I'm glad you agree that players flocking to low skill floor builds thinking it will actually somehow make them better mechanically is bad for the game, @Valisha.8650. :)

I'm also happy you mentioned scourge because the exact same thing happens with it, and it's painfully obvious at boneskinner where a lot of them ends up on the floor despite having massive sustain.

Edited March 26, 2022 by rune.9572
scourge

[Valisha.8650]

2 minutes ago, rune.9572 said:

I'm glad you agree that players flocking to low skill floor builds thinking it will actually somehow make them better mechanically is bad for the game, @Valisha.8650. 🙂

No. Players are flocking to whatever seems fun to play, whatever matches their aesthetics preferences, and so on. Low skill floor is just one of the many factors. If they enter a raid or strike, they have to learn its mechanics anyway, no matter what class they are on. And open world will not teach them either.

[Stx.4857]

This is a not so subtle nerf engineers thread.  Dying to pve mechanics has absolutely zero to do with the class you play.  If you feel powerful in open world, youre not going to pursue raids, because generally different types of players play raids than open world, it has little to do with build.

[Alec B.8905]

is this a serious topic, this isn't a class specific thing this is just general play. everyone has their rough days and everyone has an attitude they play with. this doesn't seem responsible to put this on the profession specific forum.

[Duglaive.5236]

1 hour ago, Stx.4857 said:

This is a not so subtle nerf engineers thread.  Dying to pve mechanics has absolutely zero to do with the class you play.  If you feel powerful in open world, youre not going to pursue raids, because generally different types of players play raids than open world, it has little to do with build.

 

Exactly.

 

Yet another hyperbolic thread from a "highly-skilled, difficult content" player threatened by a spec that allows casual players to accomplish many of the same things they do. Think of the diminished sense of accomplishment and prestige! The horror!

 

The drama and exaggeration is getting pretty pathetic at this point. And for what? As a spec that relies on AI to be effective (seriously, if the mech dies, the player is a 2 trait-line-worse-than-core lump of pixels. And mechs do die.) is bound to get nerfed sooner or later as Anet has never shown the ability to properly balance AI. And when that happens, these nerfsayers can again rest comfortably on their smug thrones of superiority. So, enjoy the fun while it lasts, Mechanists, 'cuz I doubt it'll be for long.

[Zzik.5873]

8 minutes ago, Duglaive.5236 said:

 

Exactly.

 

Yet another hyperbolic thread from a "highly-skilled, difficult content" player threatened by a spec that allows casual players to accomplish many of the same things they do. Think of the diminished sense of accomplishment and prestige! The horror!

 

The drama and exaggeration is getting pretty pathetic at this point. And for what? As a spec that relies on AI to be effective (seriously, if the mech dies, the player is a 2 trait-line-worse-than-core lump of pixels. And mechs do die.) is bound to get nerfed sooner or later as Anet has never shown the ability to properly balance AI. And when that happens, these nerfsayers can again rest comfortably on their smug thrones of superiority. So, enjoy the fun while it lasts, Mechanists, 'cuz I doubt it'll be for long.

I hope anet dont butcher it. For once engi is needed kitten support in end game. And for the rrcord I do all my strike on mechanist and Im not a casual noob 😛

I ENJOY active pet playstyle... Not all pet playstyle are just 1.1.1.1... Mechanist is pretty fun dont ask for butchering of it pls...

[Sena.2761]

People like the OP make me kinda happy ANet doesn't take the forums seriously.

 

Imagine if someone actually listened to this sort of hysteric screeching.

[Spie.5024]

12 hours ago, Sena.2761 said:

People like the OP make me kinda happy ANet doesn't take the forums seriously.

 

Imagine if someone actually listened to this sort of hysteric screeching.

Agree on so many levels.
The hate mechanist gets here from people who probably don’t even play engineer or haven’t played it before mechanist is insane.

mechanist is indeed one of the most well rounded classes out there and all of their specs perform reasonably well so there’s no need to cry on the forums for pve at least but still people complain and make hyperbolic statements to nerf it but can’t pin what exactly should be nerfed, let alone why…..

[AliamRationem.5172]

23 hours ago, rune.9572 said:

Lately I've noticed thie following patern:

1. mechanist joins squad

2. mechanist  wipes to 1st instadown mechanic (no pun intended)

3. mechanist gets mad and leaves

Please address the faceroll open world carry potential of this spec. People get used to it and join serious parties expecting to faceroll while not knowing mechanics of the encounter.  I don't want to ask for LI for stupid things like the aetherblade strike or ankka, but I will have to begin if this continues.

Thanks. 🙂

 

Please.  I don't like mechanist in principle either.  I think it's a bad idea for an action combat game as it obviously goes against everything that's supposed to be about.  But this idea that open world should be some sort of training ground intended to improve player skill so that they can graduate into the "main event" of instanced PvE is ridiculous.  Some players have no interest in improving their combat skills, that isn't specific to mechanist, and there's absolutely nothing with that.  Not everyone validates their existence via their skills in a video game, you know?

If there's anything wrong here it's ANet suddenly deciding now would be a good time to try to shoehorn those types of players into content they wouldn't otherwise have any interest in.

[Axl.8924]

On 3/26/2022 at 1:57 AM, rune.9572 said:

I'm glad you agree that players flocking to low skill floor builds thinking it will actually somehow make them better mechanically is bad for the game, @Valisha.8650. 🙂

I'm also happy you mentioned scourge because the exact same thing happens with it, and it's painfully obvious at boneskinner where a lot of them ends up on the floor despite having massive sustain.

 

Nerfing classes because people don't like it is how we kill the game and destroy enthusiasm for classes.

The problem is: Yes i think complexity of a class can be a good thing i think as long as for instance a class is fun such as: You are a ele or mes main and your build is super complex but very enjoyable and gives reasonable performance for the level of dps required, then it is acceptable.

Unless you completely change to make every class complex and difficult to master then i think this mentality wouldn't work, and there would possibly be a uprising with pitchforks defending classes.

A person who plays scrapper or holo or weaver should prob at least like the class and enjoy playstyle if they plan to play it long term, because part of the reward of a challenging class is mastering it and having all buttons perfect to get that real high dps.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Axl.8924
add more reasoning to it.

[Spie.5024]

2 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

Nerfing classes because people don't like it is how we kill the game and destroy enthusiasm for classes.

Agreed and besides that people are often bashing on other classes because it feels like their preferred class doesn’t match the ease of play, or just does different things 

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

On 3/26/2022 at 1:39 AM, rune.9572 said:

If it wasn't starting to become a trend, I wouldn't have made this topic.

Look, I get it, all the newfound engi enjoyers are in full force on the forums instantly jumping in to defend their faceroll cheese class. Come on, it's painfully obvious.

If you do not want people having different opinions than you, using a forum to express your discontent might be the wrong platform. Going into the sub-board of the very class you are going to insult as a whole might also be not a smart move to begin with.

Asking the obvious question, expecting the answer to be NO: Have you ever played Engineer?

[RabbitUp.8294]

That's like saying rangers are bad for the game because you run into a bearbow spamming LB 4.

[Obtena.7952]

On 3/25/2022 at 8:57 PM, rune.9572 said:

I'm glad you agree that players flocking to low skill floor builds thinking it will actually somehow make them better mechanically is bad for the game, @Valisha.8650. 🙂

I'm also happy you mentioned scourge because the exact same thing happens with it, and it's painfully obvious at boneskinner where a lot of them ends up on the floor despite having massive sustain.

While I agree that Mechanist is a low skill floor, your reasoning and logic to change it are way off.

I'm certain almost no one thinks that taking a mechanist makes them a better player and for the few that do, that itself is not a reason to change how Mechanist works. 

Degenerate gameplay (I assume you mean not dodging, just pressing 1, etc ...) is NOT the result of how a singular espec is designed. Changing how ONE espec works does NOT fix the problem you are talking about. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Crackmonster.2790]

Everytime i compare full geared out roles using mech its revealed just how overscaled and how mech has everything in abundance - it's obvious as day that mech is the cheesefest nuber class 😄 And all the same are in here defending it like their lives depending on it. The total sum of their answers is usually like: "what??? what are you on about??? nothing to see here mech barely working in fact we need fixes for make things more easier".

You can set thing thing up to heal as much as a fullspamming tempest for example, which are large part of it being mechanically superior shields, oh and it can also alac, might 25, fury, protection, regen, vigor, swiftness and with a tiny amount of stun break, aegis and stability in there. Got a ton of aoe condi cleanses as well. And it can do the best ones of those while maintaining 20k dps if you build for that. Basically it can put nearly everything that matters outside quickness and extra stability/aegis. Just the one specc, its absolutely insanely nuts.

Some deserved nerfs coming to mechs to make it fair for other speccs while not gutting mechanist:

• Reduction to damage in support modes (more of the damage baked into offensive traits). For example move some of the power scaling to dps traits.
   
• Reduction of insane amount of easy boons in dps modes
   
• Reduction of total boons granted(types), or needed more skills to get them meaning you cant all at the same time
   
• Reduction in overall potential barrier/healing numbers, a build that can put a billion boons by itself should not have better throughput than healspeccs who can mostly just heal and a couple of boons. Reducing base numbers will help to not give mech too much of everything and total free faceroll of all world, but it still needs a scaling reduction also as the amounts in end are over the top. Trying not to touch kits to break other speccs, and just making it more likely you have to switch to kits tohandle situations coz you shields are more likely to break
   
• Reductions to tankyness of the pet, a slight base reduction and a significant scaling reduction - the pet needs to die if youre playing like a massive afk nub pressings stuff. Ppl are saying it basically never dies, that's too facerolly. Consider moving some of the lost scaling into the support trait. I also think the cooldown on death needs to be no more than 25 seconds.
   
• Nerfs to mech crisis zone that thing has a billion stuff overloaded. Move some of them to the first mech skilll on support line. Hell, i think it would be so great for mechs if that skill, explosive knuckle, had it's damage reduced 33% but now targeted an area where the mech would jump and apply some of what crisis zone lost. Giving you another option to position your mech with a low cooldown - that's a huge buff actually and can free a skill slot btw = extra boon fury/swift/resolution(60%). Ideally alacrity at least so that you can actually save and use crisis zone on demand. Increase cooldown by at least 5 seconds.
   
• Nerfs to signets - why is every signet getting more than everything else in the game almost? whoever made this class just pondering different options then decide to just put everything like no one would notice. It's so unfair to others that have normal skills. Everything mech has is an upgrade and a power upgrade too compared to everyone else but stop they also add extra functionality of at least 1 skill on top of them coz why not. Especially shift signets can lose condi cleanse, movespeed and even stunbreak and still be a S tier utility. Why does it have what usually takes 3-5 skills to get?? makes no sense.
   

I know you dont wanna hear that, but not a single points of those are out of line, only those who want tohang on too way too much easy power will cry to lose any amount. You will still be an amazing specc after and you can still faceroll things with the mech.


The final results of what i wrote is this:
 
For DPS you can achieve as good numbers as other speccs, what you lose to do that is some of the free cushioning of waaay to many over the top benefits to keep you safe now. But you will still have enough to be BiS slacker faceroller, it wont kill you just make you somewhat balanced.

For support - you will still be able to alacrity that is great and you will still be able to might, protection and regen, that is your core, beyond that maybe it will be harder to keep those and extra ones up. You will because of your super op boon support compared to other healers, heal slightly less than them, probably you can nerf more than suggested here, like reduce cleanses and numbers more.

For open world you will be shaved off a bit from some of your overwhelming benefits on all fronts, but you will still be very strong and safe especially if you build something like celestial to scale it all, there will be more situations where you need to control your pet that it doesnt get in trouble, but you also got better tools for that.

That's it.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Crackmonster.2790

[Kuma.1503]

If only people with give it a rest with these mental gymnastics and just say what's on their mind. 

"I don't like Mech"

There is that so hard?

[Rosiep.9128]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

If only people with give it a rest with these mental gymnastics and just say what's on their mind. 

"I don't like Mech"

There is that so hard?

 

The irony is that people don't actually seem to understand just how much losing toolbelt is a shot to the Achilles Heel for Engineers. They also don't understand that these signets are loaded and powerful because they're meant to help make up for the loss of toolbelt. I've taken it into consideration and a lot of these great things mechanists are doing are usually a result of having to micromanage the mech to stand where you want it to and quite a bit of kit juggling. When it comes down to it, they're seeing a pet spec that's working and people don't like to be outperformed by a pet even when its power is only unlocked through agency and micromanagement of the mechanist. So no, why say that when they can just show their working for how they just don't like the mech? 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Rosiep.9128

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I fail to see how everything OP describe only applies to Mechanist and mechanist alone. I guess this is another "I hate mechanist pls nerf" thread in disguise.

[draxynnic.3719]

8 hours ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

 

• Nerfs to signets - why is every signet getting more than everything else in the game almost? whoever made this class just pondering different options then decide to just put everything like no one would notice. It's so unfair to others that have normal skills. Everything mech has is an upgrade and a power upgrade too compared to everyone else but stop they also add extra functionality of at least 1 skill on top of them coz why not. Especially shift signets can lose condi cleanse, movespeed and even stunbreak and still be a S tier utility. Why does it have what usually takes 3-5 skills to get?? makes no sense.

The thing you need to keep in mind with engineer in general is that engineer is designed such that each choice of a utility slot is the equivalent of 5 skills. Because every skill that isn't a kit is competing with one for space on the bar. Stronger utility choices are what engineer gets in exchange for not having a weaponswap.

It's just more obvious with the signets because traditionally the power of an engineer utility slot is split between the main slot skill and the toolbelt skill, while for a signet it's really all in the one button press (or choice not to press that button, if you don't have the signet trait).

Consider elixir gun, for instance. One skill on the utility bar provides a cripple, an ally condi cleanse that also poisons enemies in the area, a disengage that also does a fair chunk of unblockable damage, and an area healing light field with innate condition removal. If you're not a Mechanist, it's also a stunbreak! Now, this isn't quite as strong as it sounds, obviously, because all those skills require time to use rather than happening with one button press (something that people seem to forget when exaggerating how strong firebrand tomes are), but it is indicative of what other engineer skills are competing with: they need to be good enough that being able to get the full effect with one or two presses is still competitive with bringing another kit. Which is a balance consideration that utility skills for most other professions just don't have.

Now, they might still be overly strong even considering all that, but you can't just look at an engineer utility and say that it's clearly overpowered because it's better than an equivalent utility slot from another profession. Engineer utility slots are supposed to be more powerful. Signets just highlight this because it's one skill competing with a kit, rather than one skill and a toolbelt skill competing with a kit and a toolbelt skill.