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Rework swords, make them power focused


Zekent.3652

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Just this, offhand sword is depressing and mainhand sword is only used for the leap (on pvp) and flurry if berserker (pve).

Is sword at this state because of a tradeoff with bleeding? (the weakest damaging condi btw).

1: Weak autos.
2: The only good thing (and it's just for pvp if we're reallistics here).
3: Scuffed animation.
4: ...
5: Why?

F1 (Core): Outdated, selfroot, long cast, unintended exploitable insta chains i guess?
F1 (Berserker): The only good thing.

Imagine if THE MASTER OF WEAPONRY had good double swords just like mesmer (offhand sword might not be a good choice for pvp but it clearly is for pve), revenant and willbender.

Edit: I'm not asking for bleeding removal on autos, just a rework that makes it better as power, it's a weapon that is condi but also power, but underperforming on both facets, they could also bring some new hybrid weapons reworks, like mace giving confusion per CC/Autos, etc.

Edited by Zizekent.2398
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5 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Is sword at this state because of a tradeoff with bleeding? (the weakest damaging condi btw).

I think so, and also because they're looking at it as a primarly pve weapon.

I made a new warrior for EoD. When he's not power bladesworn, I have him run sword/sword core condi so I can have an extremely lazy build that also helps groups (vuln shout, might shout, shake it off, and all of these aoe heal because I traited them) without being bannerslave. Not ideal I know, but just to shake things up a bit.

What I found out is that when you take the 20% atk speed trait from arms, it's extremely easy to stack 30-40 bleed on higher HP targets. Arcdps tells me after every fight my top 3 damaging moves are bleeding, torment, and the last move in the sword autoattack chain. With my lazy shout build, I've been able to be extremely safe, pump out constant heals and might for the group, and pass 15K ish dps in meta boss fights by just doing autos and spamming shouts. Few other builds I've tried are as safe, modestly supportive, but also so low effort in reaching that dps.

The tradeoff of course is that even if I try to do more active things, it's basically impossible for me to get much higher than 15K when bleeding is 80% of my dps.

From a PvE perspective I actually think this is fine. If I can put out a constant stream of heals and have high uptime on the most basic boon (might) and condi (vuln) that a group needs, 15K is actually pretty good.

But the competitive side is a totally different story. I find warrior difficult to run in sPvP generally, but I'd never take offhand sword. Just... no reason to. I think if sword 4 was a 2s pulsing root + torment application, that could be something of a gamechanger. A 900 range root with cover condi, and in the time it takes to cleanse off the root you might be able to land a bulls charge or something, then switch to your real weapon lol.

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What one handed weapon will you give a condi berserker if you rework swords to straight power? There are none. No need to make condi worse than it already is.

That doesnt mean, that some small buffs wouldnt hurt though. The last change in PvE were nerfs to the auto attack (8 to 6 seconds bleed) in exchange for final thrust bleed.

Edited by anbujackson.9564
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What do you mean by this topic? Mainhand sword is used in PVE for condi due to the autoattack , final thrust (6 stacks of bleed) as well as the burst skill (11 stacks of bleeding regardless of adrenaline level). What do you think flaming flurry does? It applies 8 stacks of burning.

Offhand sword is what needs work. It should be an option alongside torch and not strictly worse. If it's meant as a competitive mode weapon for example it could trigger the riposte as long as you are in melee rather than if you block a melee attack. Revenant sword 4 used to have a chain where it blocked before using shackling wave and this is how mesmer sword offhand and guardian focus work. On condition berserker builds roughly 3 stacks of bleed equal one stack of burning so the current setup of 6 stacks of bleeding on final thrust and 11 stacks on the core burst while lower is not terrible.

 

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8 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

What one handed weapon will you give a condi berserker if you rework swords to straight power? There are none. No need to make condi worse than it already is.

That doesnt mean, that some small buffs wouldnt hurt though. The last change in PvE were nerfs to the auto attack (8 to 6 seconds bleed).

I'm not asking for bleeding removal on autos, just a rework that makes it better as power, it's a weapon that is condi but also power, but clearly underperforming at both facets.

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A condi BS on sword auto-ing does about as much as an axe power BS auto-ing so the idea that mainhand sword needs major retuning doesn't reflect reality.
Mace doesn't have any conditions on it unless you are playing berserker, in which the bleeding on primal burst is merely 4 stacks. You would never use it over sword mainhand in the context of damage and in PVP mainhand mace CC does 0.01 coefficient as well.

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12 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

A condi BS on sword auto-ing does about as much as an axe power BS auto-ing so the idea that mainhand sword needs major retuning doesn't reflect reality.
Mace doesn't have any conditions on it unless you are playing berserker, in which the bleeding on primal burst is merely 4 stacks. You would never use it over sword mainhand in the context of damage and in PVP mainhand mace CC does 0.01 coefficient as well.

Yeah, i was talking about a buff/changes on mace, being another condi weapon, not just sword mh, and sword mainhand needs the 3 skill and core F1 to be changed.

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What sword needs is more cover condi and more torment. This can be addressed via an Arms rework.

One of the things that I've pushed for is for Wounding Precision to instead inflict  torment on a critical hit, or whenever you inflict bleed on a target. I've also advocated for Unsuspecting Foe to cause you to inflict confusion on CCd targets when you strike them. Both of those would condi builds, and thus sword, greatly.

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Condition damage on warrior has always been a bad idea. But they had to give warrior more condition damage 🙄 because they were streamlining the traits and builds. They're spreading warrior thin for the sake of build variety and I love making builds but not if I have to play watered down traits that have no vision or ingenuity.

They should get warrior to a comfortable spot with one role in mind first then move on once its properly done.

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On 3/27/2022 at 4:06 PM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Condition damage on warrior has always been a bad idea. But they had to give warrior more condition damage 🙄 because they were streamlining the traits and builds. They're spreading warrior thin for the sake of build variety and I love making builds but not if I have to play watered down traits that have no vision or ingenuity.

They should get warrior to a comfortable spot with one role in mind first then move on once its properly done.

This right here.

 

---

 

Aren't warriors suppose to be front line tanks?

Aren't they suppose to serve as shield and sword?

Why are your weapons that supposed to be the best in the trade are actually the worse?

Except maybe berserker's torch...

 

You guys really have have it bad.

Someone amongst the devs really despises warrior, huh?

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25 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

This right here.

 

---

 

Aren't warriors suppose to be front line tanks?

Aren't they suppose to serve as shield and sword?

Why are your weapons that supposed to be the best in the trade are actually the worse?

Except maybe berserker's torch...

 

You guys really have have it bad.

Someone amongst the devs really despises warrior, huh?

A certain dev does indeed. It's obvious which one.

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