Dragon's End Map Cantha

[RobertD.7328]

Dragon's End Map is the worst map I have ever played.  Waypoints are always contested making events very difficult to get to because of the time spent in trying to get to one.  In the major meta event to subdue Soo Won the timer needs to be extended at least another 5-7 minutes.  I have never seen that event ever be completed in enough time.  Also events should happen more often to kind of speed up the meta event. The rate at which events start is painstakingly slow and when all 3 areas are ready to move forward why does it take 30 minutes.  Can't it take 5-10 minutes to the big event.  This map currently is very disappointing to me

[Scolix.4879]

Dragon's end meta is the prime example why this kind of content doesn't really work in mmo's never mind people with greens and blues doing less than 2k dps the event also now has so much leechers who just expect win just laying there dead after they "failed" to dodge.

 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Scolix.4879 said:

Dragon's end meta is the prime example why this kind of content doesn't really work in mmo's never mind people with greens and blues doing less than 2k dps the event also now has so much leechers who just expect win just laying there dead after they "failed" to dodge.

 

"Dodge first AoE" in map chat from 10 different people. Fight starts, AoE marker appears, everyone spams "Dodge", 15-20 people stand still and then wonder how they got downed.

[Wintermute.5408]

3 hours ago, Scolix.4879 said:

Dragon's end meta is the prime example why this kind of content doesn't really work in mmo's never mind people with greens and blues doing less than 2k dps the event also now has so much leechers who just expect win just laying there dead after they "failed" to dodge.

 

Honestly, after doing that event at 10 kittening FPS, and stunlocked about half of it, I found new level of empathy for the open world scrubs.

[Scolix.4879]

Fun fact after i got new computer i now can actually see the aoe fields.

With my crap lenovo from 2016 aoe fields were invisible. Even so i managed to done the event. 

Its not actually that hard the difficulty is not the event itself but the people who you do it with.

Todays first attempt there was like 15-20 people that i would describe as leechers who after dying just lay there waiting to be resurrected.

And even if they would had been alive for 5 seconds their 2k-5k autoattack dps would had not saved the event.

 

On paper these events are actually quite cool but in action because of people open world events that require more than breathing from people will always be extremely annoying and unfun to do.

[Scolix.4879]

1 minute ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

Honestly, after doing that event at 10 kittening FPS, and stunlocked about half of it, I found new level of empathy for the open world scrubs.

Yup my old lenovo from 2016 with 5-10 fps invisible aoe fields and random freezes with that the event was basically impossible and people have to remember how much there is always crying when mmo's update the engine because apparently if you buy a computer in the year 2004 its outrageous that the same computer doesn't run it anymore in 2022.

I actually have had this conversation in wow where some dude was crying that its not fair that hes computer that is almost 20 years old doesn't run the game anymore...

[Wintermute.5408]

5 minutes ago, Scolix.4879 said:

Yup my old lenovo from 2016 with 5-10 fps invisible aoe fields and random freezes with that the event was basically impossible and people have to remember how much there is always crying when mmo's update the engine because apparently if you buy a computer in the year 2004 its outrageous that the same computer doesn't run it anymore in 2022.

I actually have had this conversation in wow where some dude was crying that its not fair that hes computer that is almost 20 years old doesn't run the game anymore...

I upgraded half a year ago. Granted, I had very limited budget to spare, but the rig is much more powerful than my previous 10 year old one. Same performance on both rigs, regardless -_-

And if I try to tone down the amount of models, I end up fighting invisible mobs in the middle of invisible zerg. Which just kittens with my brain too much. We really need an option to just disable all the charr-shaped supernovas in open world.

[Ruisen.9471]

19 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

"Dodge first AoE" in map chat from 10 different people. Fight starts, AoE marker appears, everyone spams "Dodge", 15-20 people stand still and then wonder how they got downed.

The slam downs you even if you dodge roll it 😕    Only way is to run out of the aoe circle

  

16 hours ago, Scolix.4879 said:

Fun fact after i got new computer i now can actually see the aoe fields.

With my crap lenovo from 2016 aoe fields were invisible. Even so i managed to done the event. 

Its not actually that hard the difficulty is not the event itself but the people who you do it with.

Todays first attempt there was like 15-20 people that i would describe as leechers who after dying just lay there waiting to be resurrected.

 

Soo-Won is still extremely laggy though.   I get 20 FPS during the Soo-Won fight with low character models/visibility, and I normally get 35-40 FPS in most other meta event zergs.   I have an RX 580, which I think is reasonable to assume for the average MMO player, considering that you can get 70+ FPS in most MMO's like ESO. 

 You'd need either a 1080 or an RTX equivalent card to get decent frames on Soo-Won, which I think is a bit unrealistic since RTX are pretty expensive cards. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Hollowhisper.1093]

21 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

"Dodge first AoE" in map chat from 10 different people. Fight starts, AoE marker appears, everyone spams "Dodge", 15-20 people stand still and then wonder how they got downed.

I thought staying mounted was the thing until it's over?

[ProtoGunner.4953]

As someone who did it three times and completed it twice I still think it's a huge waste for nothing if you can't complete it. They need to add another 5 mins. That should fix it I think. It makes no sense to artificially make it hard by adding a short timer. Oh and yes add a longer timer to Maw or make  the scaling with more players better. It's kittening stupid now.

[Joraan Adenard.2061]

I dont think the difficulty is the problem.

Having difficult content in open world creates epic battles and a win is seen as an achievement by the whole group. During the runs that succeeded, I have seen great community moments. This meta IS achievable by most. It doesn't require hardcore players, just an organized squad and players who listen and know what they bring to the table.

 

The major problem is the reward structure. To get rewarded for running this map, you need a win, nothing less. Events during the map preparation are poorly rewarding and failing the final fight nets you nothing. It is the only long meta in this game that doesn't reward the players throughout.

 

• Dragon's Stand : better rewards for each event, noxious pods spawning at each outpost, good rewards after a successful tower phase.
• Dragonfall : better rewards for each event, chests during menders and first 3 escorts
• Drizzlewood Coast : participation system, rewards evenly spread out during the whole meta with some small bursts of rewards after the two big fights
• Silverwastes : incremental rewards after each successful outpost event
• Dragon's End : you need to spend 2 hours in the map and, get peanuts for your participation and, upon failing, a few coppers.

 

Players do not like wasting their time. Failing wouldn't be so bad if we at least got something worthwhile for our time, while succeeding would give the best reward and an epic experience. As of right now, failing this meta doesn't incentivize trying again and aiming for better, it incentivizes leaving the map and never coming back.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Joraan Adenard.2061

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 hours ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

The slam downs you even if you dodge roll it 😕    Only way is to run out of the aoe circle

What prevents people from running out of the massive red circle that's on the ground for ~5 seconds?

[BadHealer.3608]

2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

What prevents people from running out of the massive red circle that's on the ground for ~5 seconds?

The 15-20 people on map chat that are saying that you should doge it. Of course it is the question who the fool is. The 15-20 people that are saying the foolish thing or the one person that is following the foolish thing.

 

2 hours ago, Joraan Adenard.2061 said:

Players do not like wasting their time. Failing wouldn't be so bad if we at least got something worthwhile for our time, while succeeding would give the best reward and an epic experience.

You get an end of dragon reward chest when the event ends. Since a failed event is still the end of the event, I assume that I will found my missing 600 End of Dragon Reward chest in my mail soon. Yeah over 60 tries so far.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 minutes ago, BadHealer.3608 said:

The 15-20 people on map chat that are saying that you should doge it. Of course it is the question who the fool is. The 15-20 people that are saying the foolish thing or the one person that is following the foolish thing.

The first renown heart you have to do in EoD gives you progress for just not standing in red AoEs, not only for dodging them. When you have a massive red circle in front of you you can easily walk out of standing still is dumber than telling people to dodge it, don't you think?

[BadHealer.3608]

4 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

When you have a massive red circle in front of you you can easily walk out of standing still is dumber than telling people to dodge it, don't you think?

Of course. It is foolish to do more damage and than doge out the last minute, like we doing it in the rest of the game.

 

A non dodgeable, but walkoutable AOE. Finally a good game design.

[Peterson.5172]

27 minutes ago, BadHealer.3608 said:

The 15-20 people on map chat that are saying that you should doge it. Of course it is the question who the fool is. The 15-20 people that are saying the foolish thing or the one person that is following the foolish thing.

if you fight from the start (so dodge) you get about 10 seconds extra DPS. Given the time/effort invested, no one wants to risk a 1% fail.

[ugrakarma.9416]

4 hours ago, Joraan Adenard.2061 said:

I dont think the difficulty is the problem.

Having difficult content in open world creates epic battles and a win is seen as an achievement by the whole group.

Epic complaints on forum.

Also i doubt ppl running this organized will run this forever, lots of organized guils are getting burned out.

This will end like Triple Trouble, whos only 1 guild organize.

Temporary content is dead content, this meta is only temporary running by organized groups, because its fresh, after 10x times its just becoming boring.

 

I wonder if a new player jump in gw2, because they heard about "epic metas that no ones does it, only the first months lengendary ppl" lmao, (Serpents Ire, Triple Trouble, and many others).

Edited March 28, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Joraan Adenard.2061]

14 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

Epic complaints on forum.

Also i doubt ppl running this organized will run this forever, lots of organized guils are getting burned out.

This will end like Triple Trouble, whos only 1 guild organize.

Temporary content is dead content, this meta is only temporary running by organized groups, because its fresh, after 10x times its just becoming boring.

 

I wonder if a new player jump in gw2, because they heard about "epic metas that no ones does it, only the first months lengendary ppl" lmao, (Serpents Ire, Triple Trouble, and many others).

 

Content doesn't die because of difficulty (unless it's severely over-tuned, and Anet has shown their willingness to make it not the case).

Content dies because of underwhelming rewards. As you said, after repeating something a few times, the level of fun decreases (it doesn't go away completely though, we play a game to have fun after all). What keeps people running the same events over and over again is the rewards that offset the decrease in the fun-factor.

 

Triple trouble doesn't attract much interest because it has a combination of requiring organization and underwhelming rewards compared to more recent meta events. Serpent's Ire is dead because its only meaningful repeatable reward, the hero choice chest, is daily-gated and can be obtained by completing the forged event which is not only easier but also fits better schedule-wise in a meta train.

 

Give worthwhile rewards and Battle of the Jade Sea won't die anytime soon, especially if you spread the rewards throughout the whole 2 hours you need to participate and give some kind of fail consolation rewards. Even better : remove the necessity to prepare the map and complete events for the buff, making people join in for the actual meta event only.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Joraan Adenard.2061