March 29 Patch Notes : Ranger Changes

[Infusion.7149]

Why would you want to shoehorn untamed to WVW only? A stow pet option in unleash ranger solves the pet dilemma. It's not as though your boon rip is solely from the pet, which is the main reason to run untamed over soulbeast.

If unleash ranger removes the pet in PVP it could possibly be worse than core valk. You already need to micromanage the pet skills on unleash ranger so until autocast pet skills are put in place it's more effort for possibly lower damage.

[Lazze.9870]

5 hours ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

This is the weirdest part of the post. The first full support spec this game ever introduced got nerfed into irrelevance in competitive modes, but it's more important to bring Warrior up to Tempest and Guardian stardards support-wise? Who initially plays a Warrior to support others? What about my beloved Druid? What kind of priorities do they even have? 

I would love an actual statement from Anet, but as soon as you step out of the pve bubble, druid doesn't exist in their mind.

[Lazze.9870]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Why would you want to shoehorn untamed to WVW only? A stow pet option in unleash ranger solves the pet dilemma. It's not as though your boon rip is solely from the pet, which is the main reason to run untamed over 

Petless ranger doesn't equal being shoehorned for WvW. WvW is also the only gamemode where this class isn't hilariously subpar when it comes to its main event; large scale fights. 

No, it doesn't solve the pet dilemma because stowing for stealth is far from the only problem pets present. It doesn't even matter for stealth engagement, only midfight stealth and even then you can work around it. 

There are two sides of the pet problem in WvW. It is the problem stated above, then there is the fact that we got deadweight on half of our mechanic UI. Replacing those buttons with literally anything else would be an improvement.

Which is needed, because a permanent stow option for untamed doesn't magically make you want to run it.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Infusion.7149]

21 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Petless ranger doesn't equal being shoehorned for WvW. WvW is also the only gamemode where this class isn't hilariously subpar when it comes to its main event; large scale fights. 

No, it doesn't solve the pet dilemma because stowing for stealth is far from the only problem pets present. It doesn't even matter for stealth engagement, only midfight stealth and even then you can work around it. 

There are two sides of the pet problem in WvW. It is the problem stated above, then there is the fact that we got deadweight on half of our mechanic UI. Replacing those buttons with literally anything else would be an improvement.

Which is needed, because a permanent stow option for untamed doesn't magically make you want to run it.

Not being able to stow on core ranger/druid/untamed is an issue. I'm not sure how you're supposed to work around that reliably, what are you going to do , use longbow for stealth on the pet? Keep blasting and hope the priority is such that it gets stealth?

It's not really dead-weight if the pet only exists when you need it to execute an unleashed pet skill and is able to be put away in unleash ranger. Even in PVE it does a relatively insignificant amount of damage when not loaded up with boons. By having it able to stow in unleash ranger the untamed spec would still be fundamentally different than soulbeast since soulbeast has merged bonuses and the merged pet abilities.

Currently, you're more likely to run a meme mechanist with med kit due to the ability to recall the mech than untamed and you can't say that the mechanist pet has far more health baseline as it starts with ~20K just like a ranger pet.

[Lazze.9870]

On 3/31/2022 at 6:34 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Not being able to stow on core ranger/druid/untamed is an issue. I'm not sure how you're supposed to work around that reliably, what are you going to do , use longbow for stealth on the pet? Keep blasting and hope the priority is such that it gets stealth?

It's not really dead-weight if the pet only exists when you need it to execute an unleashed pet skill and is able to be put away in unleash ranger. Even in PVE it does a relatively insignificant amount of damage when not loaded up with boons. By having it able to stow in unleash ranger the untamed spec would still be fundamentally different than soulbeast since soulbeast has merged bonuses and the merged pet abilities.

The way you work around it is that it doesn't matter when engaging in stealth as you start out of combat, and mesmer veil is often used mid combat which you can use to stealth the pet as well.  And that's not how longbow works, dude.

This is my experience playing immob druid in my wvw guild against other top tier wvw guilds.

You're putting way too much emphasis on the stealth issue if you think stealthing is the only problem and that untamed would be fine if you could permastow. It'd be nice, but even with permastow untamed would be subpar. It's a budget spellbreaker, even with the bubble nerf, but with access to good immobs.

The pet is dead weight because of the fact that it dies easily and literally takes up space on your UI that could have been dedicated to skills that are usable 100 % of the time. Druid has the exact same issue. Both spec would be immensely improved in wvw if the pet were simply replaced with anything decent that isn't dependent on an AI (which technically means the pet can still exist in some form, but not as an AI that does and takes damage). Stowing in combat isn't happening.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Lazze.9870 said:

The way you work around it that it doesn't matter when engaging in stealth as you start out of combat, and mesmer veil is often used mid combat which you can use to stealth the pet as well.  And that's not how longbow works, dude.

This is my experience playing immob druid in my wvw guild against top tier wvw guilds.

You're putting way too much emphasis on the stealth issue if you think stealthing is the only problem and that untamed would be fine if you could permastow. It'd be nice, but even with permastow untamed would be subpar. It's a budget spellbreaker, even with the bubble nerf, but with access to good immobs.

The pet is dead weight because of the fact that it dies easily and literally takes up space on your UI that could have been dedicated to skills that are usable 100 % of the time. Druid has the exact same issue. Both spec would be immensely improved in wvw if the pet were simply replaced with anything decent that isn't dependent on an AI (which technically means the pet can still exist in some form, but not as an AI that does and takes damage). Stowing in combat isn't happening.

Kudos to you then. I'm going off the premise that A. most rangers not in a GvG guild don't have the luxury of having people allow them in squad so long as pet is out and about B. you aren't able to control the pet into a veil or stealth gyro very well if at all while moving C. most PUG rangers are terrible at positioning which leads to the off tag at 1500 range meme.

If pets can be stowed it also helps with the "dying easily" issue since it would not necessarily be out all the time. It's a simple fix that opens up a lot of possibility for rangers everywhere in WvW squads that refuse to play soulbeast.

If you replace the pet which is why many people even play the spec with some skills, I am not sure how you are going to make it differ from soulbeast. By having the option of 2 pets and ability to stow on untamed/druid/core it fundamentally sets it apart from soulbeast.

I'd go as far as to say the problem with druid even if the pet stow is implemented is while staff autos and heals were nerfed in healing power and astral force was never retuned after Feb 2020 patch it needs an astral force rebalance. It's not the first time I made this observation as overall more often people see druid as immob in WVW or decap in PVP than a support role.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Lazze.9870]

On 3/31/2022 at 7:45 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

If pets can be stowed it also helps with the "dying easily" issue since it would not necessarily be out all the time. It's a simple fix that opens up a lot of possibility for rangers everywhere in WvW squads that refuse to play soulbeast.

It doesn't open up anything. Core ranger is pointless in wvw squads. Druid with a stow option doesn't open up any possibilites, it would just be a nice QoL change when stealthing. It would still be a niche pick for immobs. Untamed is still a budget spellbreaker for CC and boon removal, and it has awful damage.

On 3/31/2022 at 7:45 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

If you replace the pet which is why many people even play the spec with some skills, I am not sure how you are going to make it differ from soulbeast.

By having an entire different set of skills, traits, a new weapon, while still having a new mechanic like the avatar on druid which should be the focal point of the elite spec? Like, if the argument is that any ranger spec that doesn't have a physical pet right next to it that will spend an hour tracking down a target correctly is "too similar to soulbeast", then at what point are you gonna start asking what the point of a ranger elite spec is at all? Are we gonna get that same pet mechanic on every single spec? Because that's what we got so far. All three elite spec + core fundamentally have the same pet mechanic. One can merge, and one can alter between unleashed and normal skills, but the pet mechanic is still there. It is extremely limiting in terms of design.

One idea which I personally think could fit druid is to make the pets into spirit forms and gain two set of skills on your F1-F3 based on the pet archtype with some druid-y flavor. Pet swap would act as changing between the two set of skills. And yes, that part is kinda similar to soulbeast. However, like I said, the avatar should be the focal point. Make it more like a shroud and ditch how restricted it feels like to use. Especially in PvP, the current 20 second cooldown combined with astral force is horrible. The better they nail that aspect of the elite, the less it matters if the other part of the UI kinda looks like a merged soulbeast.

On 3/31/2022 at 7:45 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

I'd go as far as to say the problem with druid even if the pet stow is implemented is while staff autos and heals were nerfed in healing power and astral force was never retuned after Feb 2020 patch it needs an astral force rebalance. It's not the first time I made this observation as overall more often people see druid as immob in WVW or decap in PVP than a support role

Never said druid isn't in need of tweaks and reworks in other areas. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Thornwolf.9721]

On 3/31/2022 at 12:45 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Kudos to you then. I'm going off the premise that A. most rangers not in a GvG guild don't have the luxury of having people allow them in squad so long as pet is out and about B. you aren't able to control the pet into a veil or stealth gyro very well if at all while moving C. most PUG rangers are terrible at positioning which leads to the off tag at 1500 range meme.

If pets can be stowed it also helps with the "dying easily" issue since it would not necessarily be out all the time. It's a simple fix that opens up a lot of possibility for rangers everywhere in WvW squads that refuse to play soulbeast.

If you replace the pet which is why many people even play the spec with some skills, I am not sure how you are going to make it differ from soulbeast. By having the option of 2 pets and ability to stow on untamed/druid/core it fundamentally sets it apart from soulbeast.

I'd go as far as to say the problem with druid even if the pet stow is implemented is while staff autos and heals were nerfed in healing power and astral force was never retuned after Feb 2020 patch it needs an astral force rebalance. It's not the first time I made this observation as overall more often people see druid as immob in WVW or decap in PVP than a support role.

If you want no pet soulbeast exists, this goes for stowing or for just not having a pet. 

The way you fix the issues is as follows (They wont ever do these due to the community and their rees)

1. Make the pet simply take less damage, make it take and have champion level defense/health as it is a CORE mechanic of the class. This would require an entire rework of the class from the ground up on that side, pets need to be reworked period.
2. Make untamed loose pet swap in exchange for a bigger, nastier and more powerful harder to kill pet and leave core as it is.
3. Make it scale off player stats like the mechanists tinker toy
4. Overhaul the Ui in general 
5. Untamed as a spec should get one larger fully grown beast, with three more abilities and the ability for you to customize its skills based upon its family so you can incorporate it into your build craft.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

If you want no pet soulbeast exists, this goes for stowing or for just not having a pet. 

The way you fix the issues is as follows (They wont ever do these due to the community and their rees)

1. Make the pet simply take less damage, make it take and have champion level defense/health as it is a CORE mechanic of the class. This would require an entire rework of the class from the ground up on that side, pets need to be reworked period.
2. Make untamed loose pet swap in exchange for a bigger, nastier and more powerful harder to kill pet and leave core as it is.
3. Make it scale off player stats like the mechanists tinker toy
4. Overhaul the Ui in general 
5. Untamed as a spec should get one larger fully grown beast, with three more abilities and the ability for you to customize its skills based upon its family so you can incorporate it into your build craft.

Mechanist is just as meme in WVW even with the overclock signet. If you have two pets with 20 to 30K health it effectively is 40-60K health. I'm rather certain pets were changed to take less incoming damage if not the primary target already so it is more of a pathing problem and lack of awareness of the AI algorithm to find pathing which avoids damage. The only way to completely avoid that is if you use markers for pathing similar to a RTS game or GW1 heroes.

Having it stowable when not in use midfight is a better fix than just upping health/defense because it scales better for low man situations where the pet won't instantly melt in AOE. It also allows you the flexibility of keeping it out in any scenario where it will be usable as pressure. Players in full minstrel gear with supports will melt just as much as a pet would depending on how close the epicenter is. Having played mechanist in PVE it's pretty overrated by the general community  (in PVP it's only because of fighting vs max 5 people that it is usable and the ranged trait for mech), if scrapper quickness had fury we would probably use that more often than not especially in power scenarios such as  VG/KC/CA. The mech has a mind of its own and likes to wander off so your playtime becomes encumbered with "return to me" spam.

The UI was overhauled already after the Untamed betas, so you'd need to be more specific for Arenanet to even understand what you mean by that. For mechanists it's the same "attack my target", passive/guard, return to me, and stow (recall mech). The only difference between mech and ranger in that sense is the inability to stow mid combat. If you mean introduction of pathing similar to ventari tablet that is a whole new project for them as every pet would need that implemented. The stopgap fix would probably to put in additional sustained DPS pets (as opposed to high spike damage) that are 900 or 1200 ranged (similar to Bristleback , spiders, and to a lesser extent the new siege turtle) to minimize pathing issues. I'm also not sure why jacaranda autoattack couldn't be ranged when the enemies in the desert appear to be ranged. This is exactly what mechanist in PVP is doing: using a ranged attack trait to cover up the underlying pathing problem.

Untamed pets do have three more abilities, which while not relevant for most PVE outside fractals is useful specifically in fractals. Boon rip and projectile destruction are both highly potent effects in fractals and in WVW.

Plus so long as it cannot stow once you are hit by the slightest of damage (including any precast traps) it means you can't stealth it properly. If it had ~65K (camp supervisor , armor level 2660), 110K (basic alpha golem with 2000 armor), 150K (guild cata level health), 240K (omega golem with 2000 armor), ~650K (Champion Keep Lord, armor level 2349), or ~780K (Champion Tower Lord , armor value of 2349) health pet you're still trolling any commander relying on veil and stealth gyro.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Infusion.7149
add health values for champions and other things you can destroy in WVW

[Thornwolf.9721]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Mechanist is just as meme in WVW even with the overclock signet. If you have two pets with 20 to 25K health it effectively is 40-50K health. I'm rather certain pets were changed to take less incoming damage if not the primary target already so it is more of a pathing problem and lack of awareness of the AI algorithm to find pathing which avoids damage. The only way to completely avoid that is if you use markers for pathing similar to a RTS game or GW1 heroes.

Having it stowable when not in use midfight is a better fix than just upping health/defense because it scales better for low man situations where the pet won't instantly melt in AOE. It also allows you the flexibility of keeping it out in any scenario where it will be usable as pressure. Players in full minstrel gear with supports will melt just as much as a pet would depending on how close the epicenter is. Having played mechanist in PVE it's pretty overrated by the general community  (in PVP it's only because of fighting vs max 5 people that it is usable and the ranged trait for mech), if scrapper quickness had fury we would probably use that more often than not especially in power scenarios such as  VG/KC/CA. The mech has a mind of its own and likes to wander off so your playtime becomes encumbered with "return to me" spam.

The UI was overhauled already after the Untamed betas, so you'd need to be more specific for Arenanet to even understand what you mean by that. For mechanists it's the same "attack my target", passive/guard, return to me, and stow (recall mech). The only difference between mech and ranger in that sense is the inability to stow mid combat. If you mean introduction of pathing similar to ventari tablet that is a whole new project for them as every pet would need that implemented. The stopgap fix would probably to put in additional sustained DPS pets (as opposed to high spike damage) that are 900 or 1200 ranged (similar to Bristleback , spiders, and to a lesser extent the new siege turtle) to minimize pathing issues. I'm also not sure why jacaranda autoattack couldn't be ranged when the enemies in the desert appear to be ranged. This is exactly what mechanist in PVP is doing: using a ranged attack trait to cover up the underlying pathing problem.

Untamed pets do have three more abilities, which while not relevant for most PVE outside fractals is useful specifically in fractals. Boon rip and projectile destruction are both highly potent effects in fractals and in WVW.

Plus so long as it cannot stow once you are hit by the slightest of damage (including any precast traps) it means you can't stealth it properly. If it had ~65K (camp supervisor , armor level 2660), 110K (basic alpha golem with 2000 armor), 150K (guild cata level health), 240K (omega golem with 2000 armor), ~650K (Champion Keep Lord, armor level 2349), or ~780K (Champion Tower Lord , armor value of 2349) health pet you're still trolling any commander relying on veil and stealth gyro.

You legit dont know how to play the class if you rely on stealth. Thief is over there too the left; No I mean three more abilities ontop of what they have; Like six total to compensate for only having one big super pet. Shave the pets damage received and make it more capable of being impactful to a fight. 

Untamed is a pet focused elite spec or it's supposed to be; Like soulbeast was to be the petless ranger. If you want to stow or run without a pet then play soulbeast. You've already got what you're asking for.

[Infusion.7149]

3 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

You legit dont know how to play the class if you rely on stealth. Thief is over there too the left; No I mean three more abilities ontop of what they have; Like six total to compensate for only having one big super pet. Shave the pets damage received and make it more capable of being impactful to a fight. 

Untamed is a pet focused elite spec or it's supposed to be; Like soulbeast was to be the petless ranger. If you want to stow or run without a pet then play soulbeast. You've already got what you're asking for.

What do you mean? You're talking about it as if it is the only player in a squad.

Edit: and if your answer is "it only needs to be good in small scale/roaming" then it is debatable whether ranger is bad there and your suggestion of "champion level health" makes zero sense. Therefore your suggestion is at odds with itself.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Thornwolf.9721]

14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

What do you mean? You're talking about it as if it is the only player in a squad.

Edit: and if your answer is "it only needs to be good in small scale/roaming" then it is debatable whether ranger is bad there and your suggestion of "champion level health" makes zero sense. Therefore your suggestion is at odds with itself.

If you need to be hand held by other players and that dictates whether or not a class is good, than ranger as a whole is not the only class that completely falls apart. Honestly balancing around squad play is how we got into the god aweful state we were when they started culling damage acrossed the board. 

As for champion level health being odd? Are you touched? It's literally a different alternative to it dying too fast. Make the pet bigger. Make it more powerful for untamed. You can remove pet swap and make it that pet swap traits are utilized when unleashing it or yourself. Give it a noticeably different look based on species so you can tell it apart and there you go? 

Not ever class/spec needs to fit into squad play. I've taken my untamed out many times and NO ONE has ever said a word about it. If you dislike the class/spec then play soulbeast and run stance share/boonbeast. Then you don't need to worry about the pet, stealth, squad play or anything? Like your answer in which you are positioning ALREADY exists in game. Leave the class alone and enjoy you're "one" aspect. Not every single form of this class needs to change for you.

[Infusion.7149]

14 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

If you need to be hand held by other players and that dictates whether or not a class is good, than ranger as a whole is not the only class that completely falls apart. Honestly balancing around squad play is how we got into the god aweful state we were when they started culling damage acrossed the board. 

As for champion level health being odd? Are you touched? It's literally a different alternative to it dying too fast. Make the pet bigger. Make it more powerful for untamed. You can remove pet swap and make it that pet swap traits are utilized when unleashing it or yourself. Give it a noticeably different look based on species so you can tell it apart and there you go? 

Not ever class/spec needs to fit into squad play. I've taken my untamed out many times and NO ONE has ever said a word about it. If you dislike the class/spec then play soulbeast and run stance share/boonbeast. Then you don't need to worry about the pet, stealth, squad play or anything? Like your answer in which you are positioning ALREADY exists in game. Leave the class alone and enjoy you're "one" aspect. Not every single form of this class needs to change for you.

Players are complaining about mechanist in PVP and more importantly it was nerfed and you're suggesting champion level health for untamed pet (which means 600K+ , which is why I listed what an actual champion has) , which doesn't lose a toolbelt and an entire traitline when it is dead. Yet according to you I'm out of touch with the actuality of GW2 gameplay...

Also contributing to a squad isn't being "hand held". It's called being a part of a team. Imagine that mentality in PVP if your thief is trying to disengage and you go follow them around on core ranger with your pet hanging out. Ranger is the only class to actively grief a whole squad when played poorly.

WVW balance is mainly dictated by squads, PVP balance dictates smallscale generally speaking. There are a few outliers of PVP balance not making it to WVW but that is generally the case. I do play soulbeast when I play ranger, unlike you I'm not so shortsighted to think of being kicked as the sole litmus test of whether a spec is good. Also unless you have arcdps logs of 15+ combat you might not even realize you are performing extremely poorly on untamed relative to say dps spellbreaker or power scourge.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Thornwolf.9721]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Players are complaining about mechanist in PVP and more importantly it was nerfed and you're suggesting champion level health for untamed pet (which means 600K+ , which is why I listed what an actual champion has) , which doesn't lose a toolbelt and an entire traitline when it is dead. Yet according to you I'm out of touch with the actuality of GW2 gameplay...

Also contributing to a squad isn't being "hand held". It's called being a part of a team. Imagine that mentality in PVP if your thief is trying to disengage and you go follow them around on core ranger with your pet hanging out. Ranger is the only class to actively grief a whole squad when played poorly.

WVW balance is mainly dictated by squads, PVP balance dictates smallscale generally speaking. There are a few outliers of PVP balance not making it to WVW but that is generally the case. I do play soulbeast when I play ranger, unlike you I'm not so shortsighted to think of being kicked as the sole litmus test of whether a spec is good.

I like the way my part of the class is, stay on your side. You have what you want; The only thing I want is some fine-tuning on untamed. Your proposition would make me drop ranger entirely; I play it because its a pet class. I don't play it to be a proto- Legolas from lord of the rings.

Untamed is the first spec/class in any game to give me back my white lion from warhammer, all they need to do is ditch the pet swap and make the pet bigger and more sturdy and it'd be perfect. Mechanist was stomping people; I picked it up and ran two matches with it and just ripped through people like butter. So it was a bit busted but our class is centrally focused around the pet; Untamed is further pushing that or it is supposed to be. Your changes might as well just remove untamed from the game and just replace it; In which case I'd just send my ranger back to the shadow realm from which it came.

Again, not everything needs to be built for you. I'm primarily a rev player and I hate renegade and vindicator; But I don't just go "Whelp I don't like it, change the whole spec so I will!" It's not as bad as you say it is and you're honestly making a mountain out of a mole hill. Does it need work? Yes. Ideally your pet should be an extension of you and share your boons, this includes stealth so if you go stealth then it goes stealth. 

But that requires semi-intelligent dev's who understand what a pet class/mechanic means.

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

I like the way my part of the class is, stay on your side. You have what you want; The only thing I want is some fine-tuning on untamed. Your proposition would make me drop ranger entirely; I play it because its a pet class. I don't play it to be a proto- Legolas from lord of the rings.

Untamed is the first spec/class in any game to give me back my white lion from warhammer, all they need to do is ditch the pet swap and make the pet bigger and more sturdy and it'd be perfect. Mechanist was stomping people; I picked it up and ran two matches with it and just ripped through people like butter. So it was a bit busted but our class is centrally focused around the pet; Untamed is further pushing that or it is supposed to be. Your changes might as well just remove untamed from the game and just replace it; In which case I'd just send my ranger back to the shadow realm from which it came.

Again, not everything needs to be built for you. I'm primarily a rev player and I hate renegade and vindicator; But I don't just go "Whelp I don't like it, change the whole spec so I will!" It's not as bad as you say it is and you're honestly making a mountain out of a mole hill. Does it need work? Yes. Ideally your pet should be an extension of you and share your boons, this includes stealth so if you go stealth then it goes stealth. 

But that requires semi-intelligent dev's who understand what a pet class/mechanic means.

You completely fail to understand adding a stow pet function doesn't change the gameplay whatsoever if you play it as you do now.

Meanwhile removing a pet and making it supersized/superhealth or whatever you are thinking changes it for everyone else that is playing it currently.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Thornwolf.9721]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

You completely fail to understand adding a stow pet function doesn't change the gameplay whatsoever if you play it as you do now.

Does it not? You'd be expected to never run with your pet out wouldn't you? Which is precisely why you want it to begin with. You do realize if you push the blue arrow it does hide the pet? It just doesn't do it while you're in combat. Like you can stow the pet and half the time if I jump off my mount the pet gets stowed anyway~ It's a development feature that doesn't need to be added. You can again run soulbeast and just perma-merge? 

Do you realize how long It'd take them to actually do this, which is time they could spend working out other issues with the class. More pressing ones; For example. How HORRENDOUS the new expansion pets are? And how they just dont respond when summoned? 

[Infusion.7149]

2 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Does it not? You'd be expected to never run with your pet out wouldn't you? Which is precisely why you want it to begin with. You do realize if you push the blue arrow it does hide the pet? It just doesn't do it while you're in combat. Like you can stow the pet and half the time if I jump off my mount the pet gets stowed anyway~ It's a development feature that doesn't need to be added. You can again run soulbeast and just perma-merge? 

Do you realize how long It'd take them to actually do this, which is time they could spend working out other issues with the class. More pressing ones; For example. How HORRENDOUS the new expansion pets are? And how they just dont respond when summoned? 

Have you tried it midcombat? It doesn't work. If someone tagged you say 2 minutes ago and didn't die you can still be in combat which makes that function useless.

Edit: also nobody would mind if your pet is out when people aren't blasting stealth or using veil so that is a false assumption , it's literally no change to the gameplay if you only run with PUGs that don't stealth properly

Edited April 11, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Thornwolf.9721]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Have you tried it midcombat? It doesn't work. If someone tagged you say 2 minutes ago and didn't die you can still be in combat which makes that function useless.

Edit: also nobody would mind if your pet is out when people aren't blasting stealth or using veil so that is a false assumption

It's really not an assumption; Here you are purposing a needless addition solely off of the fact that you dont want a pet thats out and about. 

Like I said it doesn't need to exist; Soulbeast ticks those boxes so there you go. An entire spec built around what it is you seek. Perhaps the next one will be another petless wonder who knows; Frankly Im just happy with what I have. I enjoy it. It feels good. It has rough edges but that means luckily that we'll see more work done on it to make it less clunky and more refined. 

So if nobody minds, as a side note... then why does it matter to you? Like I think you're placing way too much value on stealth as a whole. It has its niche but you don't always need to be right on the commander. Plus pugs and those following you're squad act just like pets; They don't always get the stealth application so how is that any different? You run the same risks.

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, Thornwolf.9721 said:

It's really not an assumption; Here you are purposing a needless addition solely off of the fact that you dont want a pet thats out and about. 

Like I said it doesn't need to exist; Soulbeast ticks those boxes so there you go. An entire spec built around what it is you seek. Perhaps the next one will be another petless wonder who knows; Frankly Im just happy with what I have. I enjoy it. It feels good. It has rough edges but that means luckily that we'll see more work done on it to make it less clunky and more refined. 

So if nobody minds, as a side note... then why does it matter to you? Like I think you're placing way too much value on stealth as a whole. It has its niche but you don't always need to be right on the commander. Plus pugs and those following you're squad act just like pets; They don't always get the stealth application so how is that any different? You run the same risks.

Have you ever commanded a squad before? Trying to get people to swap spec is like pulling teeth.

[Thornwolf.9721]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Have you ever commanded a squad before? Trying to get people to swap spec is like pulling teeth.

Yes I have, I'm also one of those folks who doesn't swap my spec for anyone either. Again this sounds like a  you issue my friend; Not an overall issue. You can't force people to enjoy or play the game outside of how they want too; I dropped ranger when soulbeast was all there was as druid became a meme and core... well core was not the best.

If another flavor of no pet ranger existed I likely wouldn't of touched it. It doesn't bother me that the pets do goofy things; Its the nature of AI even when play controlled. But as an old school minion master/bunny thumper/white lion I guess I learned to enjoy it. 

Like if you asked me to swap specs for your comp, I'd just leave and go back to roaming. As would my guild mates. Because again this isn't the biggest issue facing the class nor the game or even the game mode. Besides that rangers have always had a tough time in squads. At least we're accepted into them at this point.

[Infusion.7149]

4 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Yes I have, I'm also one of those folks who doesn't swap my spec for anyone either. Again this sounds like a  you issue my friend; Not an overall issue. You can't force people to enjoy or play the game outside of how they want too; I dropped ranger when soulbeast was all there was as druid became a meme and core... well core was not the best.

If another flavor of no pet ranger existed I likely wouldn't of touched it. It doesn't bother me that the pets do goofy things; Its the nature of AI even when play controlled. But as an old school minion master/bunny thumper/white lion I guess I learned to enjoy it. 

Like if you asked me to swap specs for your comp, I'd just leave and go back to roaming. As would my guild mates. Because again this isn't the biggest issue facing the class nor the game or even the game mode. Besides that rangers have always had a tough time in squads. At least we're accepted into them at this point.

So you quote me 2 weeks later about squad play just to say you're "too good to swap spec". Okay. That kind of player gets insta-kicked by people in PVE , not just WVW.

Another reason stow pet would be beneficial is it also affects people that don't have expansions playing core ranger and if druid Astral Force was rebalanced then people can actually play druid and not be an inside joke (druid has the clears and some utility but not the heal power currently).

Edited April 11, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Thornwolf.9721]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

So you quote me 2 weeks later about squad play just to say you're "too good to swap spec". Okay. That kind of player gets insta-kicked by people in PVE , not just WVW.

I never said I was too good, I said I'd refuse because I wont play junk I don't enjoy for something so trivial. I've never been kicked from a squad either; There are ways to say "no I won't ruin my enjoyment, just because my spec is not what you think is good." without basically ticking everyone off. 

So who now is the one assuming things? Players like you are the ones I boot out of my squads. When you start pestering people to play your way thats when you cross a line. You didn't pay for their game, you didn't pay for their expansions and until such time that you're buying my game you have no right or reason to try and push me to play something I don't enjoy. 

My untamed was zerg busting the other night, and I joined a squad with the pet doing as it does not always gaining your precious stealth and ... "gasp" NO ONE CARED. Imagine that.

[Lazze.9870]

What a pointless debate.

Permastow is a QoL change at best, not a game changer.

And anyone who thinks pets can be made useful while not promptly exploding a second after impact in WvW zergs, being just as useful as a non-pet version of that build could be, while at the same time not breaking other areas of the game, is actually delusional.

But you know, this is "MY PET CLASS", god forbid we focus on all the other themes ranger can embody that dont exist on other classes and maybe even think of an elite spec where the pet isn't there at all.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Lazze.9870