Prediction: 20% Mech stat nerf won't be enough

[coro.3176]

Reasons:

1. 20% off a lotta damage is still a lotta damage. As a condi/hybrid build, my mech was hitting a single target for ~1300 damage per second (non-crit) constantly. My main pistol offhand damage skill on a 15 second cooldown applies 2 stacks of burn which hits for a whopping ~600 damage per second, and always gets cleansed within a few ticks. That means even a nerfed mech is still doing almost twice the damage of my main (easily cleansed) weapon skill, and it's power damage, and it's always up.
2. 20% off a lotta health is still a lotta health. I basically never look at my mech's health because it's usually untouched. Players can't afford to waste time focusing it. If they spend 5-10 seconds trying to kill it rather than me, that's like the best CC in the game. On the off chance it does actually die (which is very rare), I can just bring it back with elite signet every time.
3. It's still passive damage and split actions. Doing two things at once is so powerful. Being able to attack from two directions, or deal with a downed player while fighting someone else is an intangible strength. Actions and animations are a resource too, and a pet lets you have two sets.

Would love to be proven wrong about this, because I don't want to have to play mech in pvp. I'd rather play core/holo/scrapper, but I still think mech will be the strongest option by a wide margin.

[KeoLegend.5132]

i didn't like this patch....

Mecha are still very strong, DH which was weak, got gutted even more and Virtuoso got buffed, if he wasn't already one-shoting everyone that didn't have a multiple aegis...

[Arklite.4013]

1 hour ago, KeoLegend.5132 said:

i didn't like this patch....

Mecha are still very strong, DH which was weak, got gutted even more and Virtuoso got buffed, if he wasn't already one-shoting everyone that didn't have a multiple aegis...

You're complaining about Virtuoso? The spec that literally doesn't exist against any form of projectile hate?

[Kayberz.5346]

20 minutes ago, Arklite.4013 said:

You're complaining about Virtuoso? The spec that literally doesn't exist against any form of projectile hate?

You can tell by his complaint that he likely ONLY plays guardian with 11k base hp

[KeoLegend.5132]

20 minutes ago, Arklite.4013 said:

You're complaining about Virtuoso? The spec that literally doesn't exist against any form of projectile hate?

You are thinking Virtuoso in a Zerg comp.

Think him in a Roaming situation instead.

 

He might not work against projectile hate, but remember that he is shooting stuff all the time while the defenders don't have not near as much aegis/reflect uptime. As a guardian i already struggle sometimes, imagine someone that doesn't bring F3 Virtues + Renewed Justice to avoid the unblockables... Virtuoso is very nice at 1v1

[KeoLegend.5132]

Just now, Kayberz.5346 said:

You can tell by his complaint that he likely ONLY plays guardian with 11k base hp

I play Celestial builds. Your argument is invalid. Also not only guardian, i play other classes too

[Shaogin.2679]

If passive damage is the problem, it would make since to shift damage from auto attack to the command skills and signets. But, this is Anet, and we are talking about a build with AI, so I fully expect it to be nerfed into PvP hell as soon as they've sold enough copies of EoD.

[Tycura.1982]

I'd wait a while for the meta to adjust before crying bloody murder

[Curennos.9307]

I predict you will be wrong.

[Ashgar.3024]

Mecanist probably never gonna feel good to play against. People want to PvP to fight other players, not get auto'd to death by an AI.

There was a reason Anet was really conservative with minions for a long time. There's pretty much no instance i can think of where that kind of design was compelling in a competitive game mode of any game.

Probably a good sign of how much they take PvP in consideration when making design decisions nowadays.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Kuya.6495]

Looks like it got another nerf today 

[Kuma.1503]

Don't worry, they hotfix nerfed it today.  Its passive alacrity output got cut by 66%. 

That hits their sustain, damage, mobility, ect. This trait was actually what was carrying my build and not the mech.

Turns out core condi engi with 2+ kits is pretty strong when you have alacrity and a good mainhand weapon. It would let me hold my own even if my mech died. 

The mech is also weaker by 20% so I expect them to be a lot easier to take down than before. 

I think Anet should pause after this recent nerf and see how Mech performs before nerfing further though. This should put Mech in a reasonable spot, but time will tell. 

Also make crisis zone stunbreak the mech pls. Stunbreaks have literally ONE job, and it's not doing it, perhaps you could slip that in another hotfix patch? Just sayin. 

Specter also got nerfed. I'm no thief expert, but these seemed pretty substantial from the looks of it.  

Edited March 31, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[UNOwen.7132]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Don't worry, they hotfix nerfed it today.  Its passive alacrity output got cut by 66%. 

That hits their sustain, damage, mobility, ect. This trait was actually what was carrying my build and not the mech.

Turns out core condi engi with 2+ kits is pretty strong when you have alacrity and a good mainhand weapon. It would let me hold my own even if my mech died. 

The mech is also weaker by 20% so I expect them to be a lot easier to take down than before. 

I think Anet should pause after this recent nerf and see how Mech performs before nerfing further though. This should put Mech in a reasonable spot, but time will tell. 

Also make crisis zone stunbreak the mech pls. Stunbreaks have literally ONE job, and it's not doing it, perhaps you could slip that in another hotfix patch? Just sayin. 

Specter also got nerfed. I'm no thief expert, but these seemed pretty substantial from the looks of it.  

I imagine this will kill the current mechanist build. Its a decap build, and losing alacrity hurts a lot. Hopefully if it does, theyll rebuff it elsewhere (hey psst, Anet, make power mechanist good and make the active skills on the power line actually worth using).

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

I imagine this will kill the current mechanist build. Its a decap build, and losing alacrity hurts a lot. Hopefully if it does, theyll rebuff it elsewhere (hey psst, Anet, make power mechanist good and make the active skills on the power line actually worth using).

The best "buff" I can ask for is making the Mech skills go off when you press them. It's annoying when you try to go for a co-ordinated burst with your mech, but you end up having to press the mech skill 5 times before it goes off. 

[UNOwen.7132]

7 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

The best "buff" I can ask for is making the Mech skills go off when you press them. It's annoying when you try to go for a co-ordinated burst with your mech, but you end up having to press the mech skill 5 times before it goes off. 

I'd start by making some of the mech skills worth a kitten. Jade Revolver is just bad doing less DPS than mech autos, Core Reactor Shot due to Anets *brilliant* idea of "lets make CC do no damage universally" is straight up unusable, and Sky Circus is clunky in terms of hitting anything.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

Mechanist's core design of AI>player is simply stupid and makes it incredibly unrealistic to balance in pvp. The only feasible solution is to make mech AAs do nothing, and basically have it be a living toolbelt with stronger f1-f3 skills. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Hotride.2187]

On 3/29/2022 at 10:00 PM, Shaogin.2679 said:

But, this is Anet, and we are talking about a build with AI, so I fully expect it to be nerfed into PvP hell as soon as they've sold enough copies of EoD.

How many copies is enough? I can buy a few more to accelerate the process.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[OneoftheLost.8673]

I know literally nothing about PVP. An hour ago was my very first match in the four years I've been playing this game. I'd heard mechs where cleaning house in unranked. I watched a quick video on the mechanics. Promptly forgot everything and jumped in with a signet + grenade elixer u mace/shield build.

I walked out with like 20 kills or some such nonsense. We won the match easily. I just sort of stumbled around following my teammates.

That being said, I had an epic duel with a thief who repeatedly shut me down. He knew exactly how to counter my every shift, nade, and mech..... and even after I went down my mech got him. It was silly, and it was glorious.

I dunno about gold ranked or whatnot, but at the barest lowest level of play with me forgetting to activate signates and grenades, and just spamming F1-F3 I did surprisingly well. I figured I'd just lose repeatedly, but I think the Mech is overtuned. Id hate to see it get nerfed, but I can see why it would be rage inducing.

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, OneoftheLost.8673 said:

I know literally nothing about PVP. An hour ago was my very first match in the four years I've been playing this game. I'd heard mechs where cleaning house in unranked. I watched a quick video on the mechanics. Promptly forgot everything and jumped in with a signet + grenade elixer u mace/shield build.

I walked out with like 20 kills or some such nonsense. We won the match easily. I just sort of stumbled around following my teammates.

That being said, I had an epic duel with a thief who repeatedly shut me down. He knew exactly how to counter my every shift, nade, and mech..... and even after I went down my mech got him. It was silly, and it was glorious.

I dunno about gold ranked or whatnot, but at the barest lowest level of play with me forgetting to activate signates and grenades, and just spamming F1-F3 I did surprisingly well. I figured I'd just lose repeatedly, but I think the Mech is overtuned. Id hate to see it get nerfed, but I can see why it would be rage inducing.

^THIS! I have been telling this since the launch of EoD.

just reading this.... "i just sort of stumbled around following my teammates"....on a so called "sidenoder"... he just follows the team....  = TWENTY KILLS.....  Guys come on xD (could have been bad matchmaking... but he never played pvp..... 20 kills...)

I also had a friend that only does PvE. I told him that mechanists is hilariously easy and strong. He jumped in pvp, setup the build, and went into the pvp arena and instantly went on a killingspree. Everyone and their dog can play this class. The overtuned sustain makes it able to stall any popular build atm and the mech wins the fight for you, while you only focus on not dying.

This Profession is highly unhealthy for spvp as a whole. if we compare the mech to lets say rangepets it becomes clear HOW STRONG the mech is. If you let the mech and BOTH OF THE RANGERPETS from a core ranger fight eachother, both pets will be dead and the mech still has 80% of his health. similar picture if you have both pets attack the player and the mech attack the ranger. The ranger will be dead when the mechanist still has way over 50% hp. The mech is just SOOOOOO MUCH stronger than any pet we have ever seen before, while the mechanist is pooping out boons and sustain constantly. Suddenly you have mechanists players in high platinum that dont even know whether to rotate off off short when 4 enemys are coming from mid, charging at them. Its truly hilarious.... and sad.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

On 3/29/2022 at 6:12 PM, KeoLegend.5132 said:

i didn't like this patch....

Mecha are still very strong, DH which was weak, got gutted even more and Virtuoso got buffed, if he wasn't already one-shoting everyone that didn't have a multiple aegis...

Complaining about a spec that has the sustain of an old dolyak and whose main damaging skill doesn't even need to be dodged, can be simply sidestepped. 

[Shaogin.2679]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

^THIS! I have been telling this since the launch of EoD.

just reading this.... "i just sort of stumbled around following my teammates"....on a so called "sidenoder"... he just follows the team....  = TWENTY KILLS.....  Guys come on xD (could have been bad matchmaking... but he never played pvp..... 20 kills...)

I also had a friend that only does PvE. I told him that mechanists is hilariously easy and strong. He jumped in pvp, setup the build, and went into the pvp arena and instantly went on a killingspree. Everyone and their dog can play this class. The overtuned sustain makes it able to stall any popular build atm and the mech wins the fight for you, while you only focus on not dying.

This Profession is highly unhealthy for spvp as a whole. if we compare the mech to lets say rangepets it becomes clear HOW STRONG the mech is. If you let the mech and BOTH OF THE RANGERPETS from a core ranger fight eachother, both pets will be dead and the mech still has 80% of his health. similar picture if you have both pets attack the player and the mech attack the ranger. The ranger will be dead when the mechanist still has way over 50% hp. The mech is just SOOOOOO MUCH stronger than any pet we have ever seen before, while the mechanist is pooping out boons and sustain constantly. Suddenly you have mechanists players in high platinum that dont even know whether to rotate off off short when 4 enemys are coming from mid, charging at them. Its truly hilarious.... and sad.

I completely agree with all of this!!!!!

 

In fact, I believe it is imperative that Anet balances their PvP around the lowest tier of players that randomly mash buttons and provide us with their in depth analysis of balance!

 

I will contribute my expertise as well to help. So there I was in Bronze playing some Ranked PvP on a core Guardian, I fell asleep on my keyboard and when I woke up I had single-handedly won the match with over 50 kills. Anet, this is clearly broken, nerf now!

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Cutting the alac income was a brilliant move by CmC tbh.
I really dislike the guy, but this balance patch was pretty much on point. The intent seems to be to slowly nudge mechanist until it's right, while also buffing some other options. Considering what we got from him in the past was just removing specs from PvP altogether, this is much better.

[Sahne.6950]

5 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Cutting the alac income was a brilliant move by CmC tbh.
I really dislike the guy, but this balance patch was pretty much on point. The intent seems to be to slowly nudge mechanist until it's right, while also buffing some other options. Considering what we got from him in the past was just removing specs from PvP altogether, this is much better.

i wish they would bring the alac nerf to WvW aswell. right now Celestial/divinermix Grenade Mechanist is completly dominating smallscale. I have 3 good buddys that i roam with daily. We duell alot in armistice aswell. We are all off equall skill level. Duells can go either way depending on who played it better. My brother has found this insane cele mechanist build and is able to win a duel 1v3.....

The fights were even pre EoD.... balanced duells... all of a sudden he can fight us all 3 at once and wins....  seems balanced if you ask me xD 

Not many people play mechanist in WvW yet. but the people that do are raidbosses! anyone not agreeing with this has simply not met one using this Cele/Diviner build.... i am for real! This seriously needs to be looked at.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[KeoLegend.5132]

4 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Complaining about a spec that has the sustain of an old dolyak and whose main damaging skill doesn't even need to be dodged, can be simply sidestepped. 

i have no idea who are you talking about

[Crozame.4098]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i wish they would bring the alac nerf to WvW aswell. right now Celestial/divinermix Grenade Mechanist is completly dominating smallscale. I have 3 good buddys that i roam with daily. We duell alot in armistice aswell. We are all off equall skill level. Duells can go either way depending on who played it better. My brother has found this insane cele mechanist build and is able to win a duel 1v3.....

The fights were even pre EoD.... balanced duells... all of a sudden he can fight us all 3 at once and wins....  seems balanced if you ask me xD 

Not many people play mechanist in WvW yet. but the people that do are raidbosses! anyone not agreeing with this has simply not met one using this Cele/Diviner build.... i am for real! This seriously needs to be looked at.

I really dont think one can 1v3 at similar skill level, regardless of build.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Crozame.4098