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Players "sustain is too high"


RisenHowl.2419

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Well the WoD nerf was kind of the counterplay to "boonball" but everything else was fair enough.
Buffed warrior healing in the same patch though along with offhand dagger on elementalist (plus auras).

I think the patch overall hit passive sustain (Battle Presence, MDF on engineer) which is a good thing.

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sustain just also doesn't need any nerfs. look how fast most groups do wipe and did wipe... these nerfs to FB and scrapper been totally unnecessary

 

WoD was just a easy option for even weaker group to pull one big trump card, bc they learnt during the last years to use bubbles, kinda. not like the best groups, but u always saw some "surprise" bubble here and there.

often still then they lacked the cc and dmg on point of it and this is why the nerf is so weird. the #bubbleup isn't a one skill win button. a lot of bubbles are wasted, be it late early or just not pressured enough

 

so yeah, anet really only keeps up their "lets nerf random things to make Wvw less fun"-policy.

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Kinda funny people not complaining about the scrapper nerfs.

WoD nerf gives those idiots that won't dodge out of it more time to sustain since they're not being 100% denied boons anymore, but yet kills warrior class usefulness a little more. They might as well all convert to scrappers for more defense fields and a ton of other support instead if any groups need a bubble with a much lower cooldown.

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1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Kinda funny people not complaining about the scrapper nerfs.

WoD nerf gives those idiots that won't dodge out of it more time to sustain since they're not being 100% denied boons anymore, but yet kills warrior class usefulness a little more. They might as well all convert to scrappers for more defense fields and a ton of other support instead if any groups need a bubble with a much lower cooldown.

I'm not happy about the scrapper nerfs, I may have to go back to yak-scorting on my ele.

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The scrapper nerf is irrelevant. 10% loss to mdf is completely meaningless and the superspeed/quickness change only means you have to be a bit more calculated with how you use them. I'm sure the bottom of the barrel scrappers are feeling it but the rest of us should feel essentially no change. 

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8 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

sustain just also doesn't need any nerfs.

Sustain, boon pulse spam, mobility and stealth uptime all need a Feb patch to remove their power creep.

  

30 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Sustain isnt to high. We simply dont have good dmg dealer builds for zergs.

 

 

Toughness + food + prot + constant condi removal + perma reflect + perma stab makes it nigh-impossible to damage players effectively outside of a discord commander giving 25+ people orders how and when to press their buttons.

Edited by Kozumi.5816
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7 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Sustain, boon pulse spam, mobility and stealth uptime all need a Feb patch to remove their power creep.

  

Toughness + food + prot + constant condi removal + perma reflect + perma stab makes it nigh-impossible to damage players effectively outside of a discord commander giving 25+ people orders how and when to press their buttons.

I somewhat agree but what Builds do even good dmg these days?

We mostly see scourge/Hammer rev which both are a mix of Dmg and support. But what pure dmg builds are there?

Weaver was once that but Staff is such a joke weapon now.

We have melee builds that do good dmg but in todays meta, going melee is suicide.

Thats why i always say that Build diversity is bad.

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9 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

I somewhat agree but what Builds do even good dmg these days?

We mostly see scourge/Hammer rev which both are a mix of Dmg and support. But what pure dmg builds are there?

Weaver was once that but Staff is such a joke weapon now.

We have melee builds that do good dmg but in todays meta, going melee is suicide.

Thats why i always say that Build diversity is bad.

 

Few options in there for dps

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Sustain wasnt a problem. Neither fb nor scrapper or any other support build.

the problem nowadays is all people think they are elite and dont need to prepare themselves anymore before taking part in something, resulting in low dps and failure from most.

when i see that someone here in this thread writes that rev is a hybrid support and not dps says everything. These are the 1k dps rev causing squads dont get anything killed.

The same overal low player quality that wvw suffers from we have in pve as well, see all the people cry about the new dragon meta or strike missions…

Copy paste metabattle, copy paste snowcrows and not even reading any traits, weaponsskills, runes, sigils, utilities.

everyone is elite and thinks all others are „no content“… that is the problem in this game atm.

you guys just dont know how to deal damage, how to spike and burst.

If you need proof just look at all the videos on youtube including low dps on the arcdps windows.

„there are no dps builds and going melee only results in suicide“ loooooooool

you guys just play crap.

Edited by SlateSloan.3654
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4 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Sustain, boon pulse spam, mobility and stealth uptime all need a Feb patch to remove their power creep.

  

Toughness + food + prot + constant condi removal + perma reflect + perma stab makes it nigh-impossible to damage players effectively outside of a discord commander giving 25+ people orders how and when to press their buttons.

i would really love to see gameplay from you... there's exactly 1 reflect skill used on meta FB build, the F3 skill 3. and scrapper has one on hammer2, which ur not often in fyi

so PERMA REFLECT UWU isn't really close that any meta. u fight ppt nooby blobs maybe and don't even bring the dmg to kill those... idk what to say

most discord leads aren't even good. but yeah, you need either ~10 people more than they have or just a far higher player quality to clap them. with experienced largescale players u can destroy bad blob with way less people than they have.

make them spread out, kill them left and right on the flanks and the leftovers are a onepush lol

 

condi builds are just too slow and rely on numbers. and few scrappers and eles with shut them down + most people have knowledge of how their class can additionally cleanse condis... that's why Wvw largescale, starting even with 20ish size is only pdps. condi is for pvE farms, where the target has no brain and cannot adapt to it

 

good zergs know themselves how to press their buttons. the lead has to give directions and call for certain skills because u need a coordinated bomb to kill things FAST  - thanks to anets wet noodle dmg coefficients on most things.

 

there's by far not "perma stab"... groups even run additional engi stab and make the revs spam jalis road to somewhat cover the downtimes of firebrand cooldowns.

 

and yeah, once again: boonballs are only there bc ppl dont play enough strips and corrupts and half of the necro u'll see have zero clue how to corrupt boons

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Yeah boonball is a problem while 90% of all necros only strip cause they drop well of corruption on commanders call and are not using any other skills during a fight ending up with 30-60 strips where active playing necros score 120-200 in the same time…

everyone is so good that there is „no content“ for nobody.

and everyone who just creates several characters on his account is nowadays automatically multiclasser regardless if that person can even play one single class at all for real.

we have the huge problem in community that too many people think they are good while they are not and these prefer to complain on the forum about wanting to have seen „bad balancing“ and „bad class design“ instead of admitting the truth to themselves and change their failure gaming.

When I see how many players always underperform for years now carrying the same guild tags around ever since we should rather ask wtf happens in these guilds and with the guild leaders at all cause they seem to not talk to their members and not take care at all resulting in this server wide clown fiestas.

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2 hours ago, Dagger.2035 said:

It seems like some comments in this thread may be from players not playing proper builds.  Power Guard/DH, Herald, and Weaver are strong ranged DPS options in large scale fights and reflects don’t affect them.

The majority of guilds get run over in seconds and never win fights then their players come to the forums and whine that everything is "too tanky" when the problem is really that they're trash. 

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@SlateSloan.3654 and those numbers are even very rookie. in rare occasions, other classes that strip a lot steal scourge corrupts, but normally the first six scourges at least should be quite close to each other stripwise. and that gets fast over 200. anything below is rather bad, unless the fight was just too easy for one side

 

the issue with guilds is, that the "commanders" sometimes are far too convinced that they are strategic genious people, which just very often couldn't be further from the truth. most coms are rookies, don't wanna accept advice nor do seek to get better. so their calls also aren't good and yeah, what should really grow from that.

 

basically, kinda coms block their guildmembers as well. like, ideally most people of the squad should be vocal and making short and precise calls, including if they see enemies stealthing and engaging. i often saved a lot of booties by calling out a "theypush" before our lead saw it (and even good leads will at times miss a push)

so woke players can improve a guild as well. afking at siege isn't optimal for example 😜

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15 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Kinda funny people not complaining about the scrapper nerfs.

WoD nerf gives those idiots that won't dodge out of it more time to sustain since they're not being 100% denied boons anymore, but yet kills warrior class usefulness a little more. They might as well all convert to scrappers for more defense fields and a ton of other support instead if any groups need a bubble with a much lower cooldown.

Well, the reason why you don´t see a lot complaints about the scrapper nerfs is probably, that these nerfs pretty much legitimate. 

I´ve been maining medium- and large-scale heal-scrapper for quite a while now, and even i think, that nerfs are, or at least, were needed. 

Scrapper is bringing extremely high amounts of utility. extremely high heal (which used to be even more before the 50% heal-cut in WvW was introduced), extreme amounts of condi-cleanse, Superspeed, Quickness, Stealth, Damage Mitigation, Projectile Blocks, CC.... everything on just one specc. It´s overloaded with effects, leaving no room for other classes to compete for the same spot in a squad. 

 

 

7 hours ago, SlateSloan.3654 said:

the problem nowadays is all people think they are elite and dont need to prepare themselves anymore before taking part in something, resulting in low dps and failure from most.

yep. I assume that players (especially those who are new to WvW) think, that they can get away with anything they think is good, or probably not even that. The issue is, that WvW is a highly competetive environment by nature. This is what i´ve been expieriencing for a long time in Open World (because, well, Open World allowed such a gameplay style, with Dragon´s End being the first exception now), and what i also start expieriencing in  WvW (note: not due to the release of EoD, this trend started already over a year ago). 

 

 

7 hours ago, SlateSloan.3654 said:

when i see that someone here in this thread writes that rev is a hybrid support and not dps says everything. These are the 1k dps rev causing squads dont get anything killed.

well, that statement kinda has room for interpretation, but i think you are right. Tbh: you could >technically< call Rev a hybrid between DPS and support, because it is a DPS-class that actually DOES bring supportive effects (swiftness, fury, might, stability, dmg reduction). BUT: it´s not the main task of a rev, it is more like a "useful side-effect" which synergizes well in teamcomps. The "1k dps revs" probably thought, that they have to invest into the supportive aspect (which ofc is not that needed in WvW)

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it don't think it was good to give scrapper any nerfs. its kinda necessary to chase people that try to run at sight and to hardcounter people who try to get carried by lame condibuilds mainly

 

also, as the mode isn't about equal sized fights in most situations, why even try to balance like this... it gets more annoying with literally each patch to grind kills against quadruple size groups... where's this going to end?

 

about the rev... well as all meta classes, only the best players even bring all of its capabilities even into combat

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11 hours ago, Dagger.2035 said:

It seems like some comments in this thread may be from players not playing proper builds.  Power Guard/DH, Herald, and Weaver are strong ranged DPS options in large scale fights and reflects don’t affect them.

Holding the W key counters weaver

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