tmorrow.5189 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) Saltwater fisher and its repeat avid saltwater fisher are 2 of 30 collections required for the "Cod Swimming Amongst Mere Minnows" title (CSAMM). In discussions out on the open water, with other avid fisherman, I've found that players don't really have a good idea what they can expect from trying to complete their saltwater collection. I hope this sheds some light. The 30 collections fall into 3 categories: zone collections, oceanic trash/treasure collections and world/saltwater fisher collections. Whereas most of collections can be targeted, there doesn't seem to be a way to easily target either saltwater or treasure collections. The zone collections occur on a specific map and each fish is caught at a certain time of day, in or out of a fishing hole, using specific bait. The dawn/dusk fish can be annoying to pick up because there are only two "5 minute windows" in every 2 hour day/night cycle that they can be caught. These fish can usually be caught within a handful of attempts though. Players have discovered that world class and oceanic trash collections can be targeted in polluted fishing holes in Kessex Hills and can usually be completed within a few hours by sinking their line in those waters. That leaves oceanic treasure and saltwater fishing collections. Oceanic treasure collection seems to just happen naturally along the way to completing the other collections. Not so for the saltwater collection which is way harder to complete. The saltwater collection is a massive grind. Not much is known about the saltwater collection, Arenanet have not revealed any specific information about it as far as I am aware. Saltwater fish can be caught anywhere, anytime and with any bait. Anecdotally players have discovered that fishing in open water typically nets a saltwater fish every 50-100 casts. The most recent game patch states that the drop rate from fishing nodes has been increased slightly and anecdotally players think the rate has doubled there. I can't tell you how long the collection will take you or where the best place to fish is but I can say something about how many saltwater catches you can expect under the reasonable assumption that drops rates for the 14 fish within the saltwater collection are equal and randomly selected (probably psueuorandom using a standard statistics library in C/C++ or whatever programming language GW2 is coded in). This collection problem is an application of a more general problem known as the Coupon Collectors Problem. Details can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupon_collector's_problem and my calculations below are from that wiki page. The expected number of catches T required is obtained by setting n=14. We have: E(T) = 14(1 + 1/2 + 1/3 + ... + 1/14) It's instructive to write out the terms in reverse order in this way E(T) = 1 + 14/13 + 14/12 + ... + 14/2 + 14 ~ 1 + 1.07 + 1.16 + 1.27 + 1.40 + 1.56 + 1.75 + 2.00 + 2.33 + 2.80 + 3.50 + 4.67 + 7.00 + 14.00 ~ 45.51 ~ 46 The first term is how many saltwater catches you can expect before completing the 1st fish in the collection (1), the second is how many catches to expect before obtaining the second fish (1.07) and so on up to the 14th term which is how many fish to expect to collect that final elusive fish to complete the collection (14). The expectation is around 46. You can expect to have to collect 46 saltwater fish (i.e. 46-14=32 duplicate fish) and the last few fish require the lion share of the catches with the final fish expected to take 1/3 of the overall effort alone. It's also useful to calculate the variance (and standard deviation): Var(T) = 14^2(1 + 1/2^2 + 1/3^2 + ... + 1/14^2) ~ 309 and StdDev(T) = sqrt(Var(T)) ~ 18 This is not good news for the saltwater fisher. The distribution has a large spread and so there is going to a lot of variation among the player base. You have not been fortunate if you require more catches than a standard deviation above the mean, i.e. if it takes more than 46+18 = 64 saltwater fish to complete the collection. Here's some data on my own experience. Almost all of my fishing predated the patch that increased the drop rates from holes. If I started saltwater fishing today I'd probably do a lot more casts into fishing holes. At the time though I went for open water fishing because I couldn't be fussed with steering my skiff from hole to hole and drop rates seemed to be about the same everywhere. A lot of players adopted Ember Bay as the place to go after saltwater fish. So I joined them. Some reasons for the choice were: There's often a flotilla of skiffs in the Sulfurous Deep with plenty of fishers sharing fishing stacks (99 stacks please, thank you). No enemies out on the open water to knock you off your skiff and cut into your valuable fishing time. The map rarely closes due to stable player populations unlike maps with metas which would result in losing your fishing stacks. The only regional offshore fish to be caught are firemouth and igneous rockfish, so anything else you catch is a chance for a saltwater catch (or world/mackerel/junk/treasure). My fishing power was typically 925% from: Full fishing mastery. Cheapest +150 fishing power Bowls of Fish Stew food. Best Mackerel bait. Amber/jade lures. 99 stacks of the Fishing Party Catches buff. I usually forgot to collect the Tips on Fishing from Benyo in Seitung Province. My saltwater results follow. The counts are for the fish in the order: seahorse, redfin barb, leafy sea dragon, googly-eyed squid, mantis shrimp, shimmering squid, electric eel, vampire squid, rockfish, flapjack octopus, horseshoe crab, aurelian herring,, sea robin, red gurnard: saltwater: 6,2,3,6,5,6,4,4,2,1,4,1,6,5: 55 total avid saltwater: 2,10,6,4,4,5,1,5,4,4,5,3,1,1: 55 total In summary, it took me 55 saltwater catches each time to complete the collection twice. This puts me on the wrong side of the mean both times but within one standard deviation of it. The aurelian herring was the final catch the first time and sea robin the final catch the second. In summary The CSAAM title (and the silky ascended fishing rod skin) is all about the saltwater fishing, all the other collections are readily picked up albeit with some irritating dawn/dusk fishing. The saltwater collections are a grind and the grind is worst at the end. I hope you have a good idea of what you can expect. Enjoy your fishing and may luck place you on the right side of the mean! --- Did I ever tell you the time I caught the entire saltwater collection in one cast. Fortunately I was using big game fishing line at the time or the entire catch would have surely snapped the line. Fishing on my skiff, I felt a gentle nibble and brought up ... an aurelian herring ... riding on a sea horse ... jumped on by a hungry redfin barb ... speared by a mantis shrimp ... that failed to evade a famished red gurnard ... joined by a noisy sea robin ... pounced on by a pulsating flapjack octopus ... that was being being vacuumed by a hiding rockfish ... that was surprised by a camouflaged leafy sea dragon ... with a horseshoe crab clawing at his tail ... being zapped by an electric eel ... and alarmed a googly-eyed squid ... who scared a shy shimmering squid ... who succumbed to the tentacles of a vampire squid from the deep. True story! Edited March 30, 2022 by tmorrow.5189 grammar 4 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!Register a new account
Already have an account? Sign in here.Sign In Now