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Change the name of "Infantile Mode," please


VerdantThorn.9345

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To start off with, I really have enjoyed the game for the past long while since I came back to it (a bit before the xpac dropped, and consistently since). This is not a general complaint about the quality of quantity of gameplay, the story, or anything like that. That has all been lovely. Soundtracks have been lovely. The visuals have been lovely. The writing of the core story - and side stories - have made me really impressed. Please bear in mind that this request is coming from a fan, someone who really likes and has been impressed with your game so far. 

 

Please change the name of "Infantile Mode," and the associated "Baby's First" achievements. It is not necessary to call them that. I don't know when it got added, or even if I just forgot and it has been there all along, but I think it really needs to be renamed. It's something that is insulting to people who turn on 'easy mode' as an accessibility tool, because of any number of neurological or musculoskeletal disabilities. It also adds nothing to the game, even for people with no accessibility issues whatsoever. The only people it helps are those who want to look down on others for how they play the game, and given the core ethos of Guild Wars 2 seems to have always been "Play How You Want"... a statement like that seems very much antithetical to that goal.

 

Just ask yourself: what would *Taimi* think of "Infantile Mode?" Yes it's a challenge to be overcome, and yes she'd want to overcome it, but would she really appreciate some other Asura calling her an infant? I really, really appreciate the frank and empathetic storytelling focusing on the disabled experience that centers on her; I really don't want that to be counter-weighted by something as tone-deaf as the name of that game mode.

 

For me personally, I find it very very difficult to advance in SAB because of visual confusion issues stemming from post-surgical brain damage and manual dexterity tied to the same. I have overcome much of it (just look at the number of JPs I've been able to do, including ones like Loreclaw Expanse with enough camera shakes to give me vertigo) but I have specific compensatory strategies for that. Sometimes that means using things like an easy mode or a walkthrough, to get me past a particularly hard section. Other times it means other things. Basically all of SAB post 201 has been a Particularly Hard Section for me (judge me for that however you like).

 

I don't think folks in my position, or even folks in the position of just wanting an easier gameplay experience or to *finally* get to the end of SAB, deserve to be called names for it. It's not a hard thing to fix, and would cost you nothing, so I ask that you please do. 

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Honestly after the surgery I'm impressed you can follow in 2.1's raft, this part makes me extremely dizzy, and I'm in perfect condition. And you cant skip it in infantile as far as I know.

I know its easy to say "don't hold it against you", but I think its moreso fitting to the giant parody / hommage that is SAB. Infantile mode feels to me like its referencing the "can i play daddy?" (with picture of the hero in a baby's hat) from wolfhenstein.
Fyi they also "mock" retribution (sadisticly hard) mode : Confirming this option is something like "Yeah I like the pain dont judge me". I didnt tried it too much yet but I wouldnt be surprise it tells me to "git gud" at some point for the memes

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I’m all for keeping it. I like the name.  

Nobody knows which game mode you played and I seriously doubt someone would go out of their way to insult you. Infantile mode is no more reflective of the player doing it than a chad mode would be. 

Edited by mythical.6315
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As someone said how will someone know what you play unless you party up with people?

And if you party up you could say in normal you could just die or relog even ever people get to a checkpoint.

Do say what you are doing so they dont kick you due to thinking you rage quit.

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It could be changed to novice or beginner, everything else in the game has the beginner/adept/master/expert style, why not.   Beginner/intermediate/expert.  I'm more than comfortable running it, agree it is a dumb name.  Ever watched an infant?  Nothing about what they do is easy, albeit learning coordination.n 

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I have been calling it Baby Mode for years and it's not even in a derogatory statement.  More like "let's go have fun in baby mode".  I don't think it was meant to be negative at all, kind of like when you babyproof your home.

The mode is called Infantile, the players playing the mode are not.  Why use the property of transference to become insulted at a name?

The point being, if they are gonna rename Infantile, they should rename Tribulation to Hardcore, so those who play it can feel accomplished.  They should also rename Normal mode to "Average" so it doesn't implicate if I cannot finish normal mode I myself am not normal. 

See where I am going with this? Don't give the game modes names more power than they deserve.

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You do realise that it's joke right?

This entire festival was literally created as part of an elaborate April Fools Joke back in 2013.

It's hardly insulting, hell it's even mundanely passive when you factor in how often Asura look down on and belittle others who they deem inferior to themselves.

Frankly I'd find it hilarious if Anet added in a Bookah difficulty as well which would do nothing but give you a "You Win" pop up as soon as you enter a world and would then teleport you back to the hub and give you a single bauble as a reward.

In the game world it would be immensely offensive and even blatantly racist to all non Asura, but it would also be hilarious and completely in character for an Asura to do something like that.

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playing devil's advocate here:

 

calling it "infantile mode" seems to be anti-inclusive to me, since some people are handicapped and unable to do tribulation mode. and this game is all about inclusivity, including but not limited to, color, creed, kitten orientation, handicap. IE: it's bullying to call someone a baby when "he/she/anything-in-between" (<--Doctor Who "quote") is handicapped.

 

Calling it "Bookah Mode" is at least lore appropriate.

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51 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

You do realise that it's joke right?

This entire festival was literally created as part of an elaborate April Fools Joke back in 2013.
 

 

Of COURSE I realize it's a joke. And, of course I realize it's meant in good fun and good humor. That is why the request was coming not from a place of hate or derision, but because I like this game and want it to be as fun as it can be. I'm a huge fan of this game and have been playing it off and on for like 8 years now. 

 

So while I realize that it was INTENDED as a joke and to be in good humor, and I'm sure it lands fine for most audiences, there are audiences for whom it does not. Hence, the suggestion to change it to something else. It's not like this is something core to the experience or that would damage a critical gameplay experience by changing it. It's just an arbitrary label. Changing it to something else requires very little effort, certainly not on the order of creating new gameplay features or redesigning levels or rebalancing zone bosses, or whatever else people ask for on a regular basis.

 

 

10 hours ago, Nightgunner.2896 said:

So, what's your suggestion for the new name for the mode that treats you like a baby with bright colors and funny noises and comically frequent way markers?

 

Several fine ones have been made in the thread already. Easy Mode, Safe Mode, Starter Mode, Novice Mode, Beginner Mode... all of those are fine. 

 

Hell, keep the happy clouds and rainbows and whatnot. Those are aesthetically appropriate, even in those cases, and appropriate to an 8-bit-esque experience. You don't need to change really anything other than the names of things that literally imply that people playing this mode are babies or infants or whatever. Because, I really don't enjoy the game developers called me a baby for sometimes wanting or needing help accessing some of the content. That is... well, infantilizing.

 

If you haven't spent a good chunk of your life being treated like an infant by well-meaning but ignorant folks, because of physical disabilities that don't in the least impact your mental faculties... I don't know that you can really get how much that stings. It sours the entire experience for me. I play this game to escape from that sort of thing, and for the most part they are very, very good about being thoughtful and empathetic in their writing, and flexible and accessible in their game design. That's why this is hardly a criticism overall, just a request to rename this one thing. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Vitaly.3418 said:

The mode is called Infantile, the players playing the mode are not.  Why use the property of transference to become insulted at a name?

The point being, if they are gonna rename Infantile, they should rename Tribulation to Hardcore, so those who play it can feel accomplished.  They should also rename Normal mode to "Average" so it doesn't implicate if I cannot finish normal mode I myself am not normal. 


Sure, do that. My own issues aren't with the other modes but if people feel strongly that they should also be renamed in the process, then rename them by all means. I don't think one change necessarily implies a need for the others, but I can see the logic in what you said as well. 

 

9 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

I’m all for keeping it. I like the name.  

Nobody knows which game mode you played and I seriously doubt someone would go out of their way to insult you. Infantile mode is no more reflective of the player doing it than a chad mode would be. 

 

My issue isn't with other players knowing, it is with the game developers implicitly calling me an infant for playing that game mode and then thereafter calling me a baby every time I make progress in the world. Even if no one else ever knows, I'm still consistently seeing popups at the bottom of my screen calling me a "baby" or an "infant" and I get enough of that sort of treatment in real life, thanks. I don't want it in the spaces I use to escape from that sort of treatment.

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2 hours ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

My issue isn't with other players knowing, it is with the game developers implicitly calling me an infant for playing that game mode and then thereafter calling me a baby every time I make progress in the world. Even if no one else ever knows, I'm still consistently seeing popups at the bottom of my screen calling me a "baby" or an "infant" and I get enough of that sort of treatment in real life, thanks. I don't want it in the spaces I use to escape from that sort of treatment.


They are not calling you an infant for playing infantile mode just as they wouldn’t be calling you easy for playing an easy mode. The names of the modes describe the modes; not the players who play them. 
 

 

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23 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:


They are not calling you an infant for playing infantile mode just as they wouldn’t be calling you easy for playing an easy mode. The names of the modes describe the modes; not the players who play them. 
 

 

 

Thank you, but I'm sure you can see how stating "you're wrong" and leaving it at that doesn't create any meaningful avenue for further discussion. The only response one might have to this is, "no, you're wrong," and then we go back and forth forever. That's not a "debate" I have any interest in having. 

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6 minutes ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

 

Thank you, but I'm sure you can see how stating "you're wrong" and leaving it at that doesn't create any meaningful avenue for further discussion. The only response one might have to this is, "no, you're wrong," and then we go back and forth forever. That's not a "debate" I have any interest in having. 


You’re taking issue with the name of a game mode as if it’s reflective of the players that play it. You said that you felt that you were be called an infant for playing infantile mode and being judged. Neither of these are true. Would someone playing an easy mode be called “easy” or someone playing a chad mode be called a “chad”?  No. No they wouldn’t be. You need to realize that it’s just the name of the mode and that’s all. 

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3 hours ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

playing devil's advocate here:

 

calling it "infantile mode" seems to be anti-inclusive to me, since some people are handicapped and unable to do tribulation mode. and this game is all about inclusivity, including but not limited to, color, creed, kitten orientation, handicap. IE: it's bullying to call someone a baby when "he/she/anything-in-between" (<--Doctor Who "quote") is handicapped.

 

Calling it "Bookah Mode" is at least lore appropriate.

Isn't calling it "infantile" also lore appropriate? Given the race's penchant for arrogance?

"They constantly seek to prove their own intellectual superiority, and by extension the superiority of the asura race. This typically results in asura being arrogant to the point of rudeness towards others, especially towards non-asura races. "
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Asura

I always thought that the "Infantile" label was an extension of the above, much like when they calling each other "simpleton" ect. The lore and writing of the race has always reflected these kind of put downs and haughty language. It's a cornerstone of the culture. 

Taking offence to the "infantile" label seems to me to be a highly selective form of self martyring considering how often Asura are rude, insulting or projecting an air of superiority.

I would be pretty disappointed if Arenanet kowtowed to the OP considering the argument seems to have been started in bad faith using buzzwords that they figured would wag the dog.

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3 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:


You’re taking issue with the name of a game mode as if it’s reflective of the players that play it. You said that you felt that you were be called an infant for playing infantile mode and being judged. Neither of these are true. Would someone playing an easy mode be called “easy” or someone playing a chad mode be called a “chad”?  No. No they wouldn’t be. You need to realize that it’s just the name of the mode and that’s all. 

 

Here's the rub to that: "You said you felt that you were being called an infant... [that's not] true."

 

No, it IS true... for me. I DO feel that way, like I am being called thus. You may and are allowed to feel differently, but you are not the arbiter of how I feel about this or anything else. Like I said before though, this is a "debate" that can only turn into "nuh uh," "uh huh," "nuh uh," "uh huh," because you are claiming that something that is subjectively true for you - that the game mode's name is not insulting to you, and not meant to be reflective of or directed at you-the-player - is objectively true for everyone everywhere. That's not a productive discussion, and not one I'm much interested in having. 

 

I just don't want to be insulted by the games I play to relax, and ask that this one small change be made to make my experience measurably better. It's really not - or it ought not to really be - that big a deal. It wouldn't take that much effort to change. But, it would measurably impact my gaming experience, and I venture that I'm not the only person for whom it would do so. And, at the same time, it *helps* practically no one, so why NOT do it? 

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Quote

My issue isn't with other players knowing, it is with the game developers implicitly calling me an infant for playing that game mode and then thereafter calling me a baby every time I make progress in the world. Even if no one else ever knows, I'm still consistently seeing popups at the bottom of my screen calling me a "baby" or an "infant" and I get enough of that sort of treatment in real life, thanks. I don't want it in the spaces I use to escape from that sort of treatment.

 

The issue is that you are asking them to change it so that you are ok with it.  The pop-ups are achievements that share the same name so people won't get confused.  SAB is perfect the way it is, there is no need for changing the names because one person it taking it WAY too personal.  Btw, I am not invalidating what you said or how you feel.

You need to disconnect from the name and enjoy the content.  Giving the name way too much power and making correlations to it that are being drawn out of nowhere.  The game developers don't even know your playing SAB, chill it aint about you.  No one is calling you anything at all, your making these assumptions based on something that happened in your past that you yourself mentioned you are trying to escape.

BREATHE, RELAX and know no one is calling you a baby.

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8 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Isn't calling it "infantile" also lore appropriate? Given the race's penchant for arrogance?

 

 

It seems to me that the one label that Asura - a species that is naturally small of stature - would avoid like mad, is "infantile." They probably already get that in spades, since there is often a reflexive penchant in at least Humans (and probably the other sentient species of Tyria, though maybe not Sylvari because of the way they reproduce) to equate size with prowess, strength or worth. Being naturally short and slight of build, Asura probably already get slighted all the time and infantilized in dealing with Humans who don't have much experience with non-Human species.

 

I like the suggestion above of using the already-established derogative ("Bookah") that Asura have for non-Asura. That doesn't have the real-world emotional weight to it, implies a game-world rather than real-world basis for the term, and thus very neatly - IMO - removes the sting from the term. It's a fine compromise, though the other suggestions given work just as well. 

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3 hours ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

Of COURSE I realize it's a joke. And, of course I realize it's meant in good fun and good humor. That is why the request was coming not from a place of hate or derision, but because I like this game and want it to be as fun as it can be. I'm a huge fan of this game and have been playing it off and on for like 8 years now. 

 

So while I realize that it was INTENDED as a joke and to be in good humor, and I'm sure it lands fine for most audiences, there are audiences for whom it does not. Hence, the suggestion to change it to something else. It's not like this is something core to the experience or that would damage a critical gameplay experience by changing it. It's just an arbitrary label. Changing it to something else requires very little effort, certainly not on the order of creating new gameplay features or redesigning levels or rebalancing zone bosses, or whatever else people ask for on a regular basis.

It just seems so...... harmless is probably the best word I can go with here.

I mean I could understand if it was something more bold or a word that is more intentionally insulting but infantile is just so mild by comparison.
It's hard for someone like me to comprehend that people would find this insulting enough to call for it to be changed tbh.. it's a bit baffling to me.

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2 minutes ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

t seems to me that the one label that Asura - a species that is naturally small of stature - would avoid like mad, is "infantile."

This is your own projection on the lore. It is not backed up by anything in game,and is in fact something you are flat out making up.
How many times does Phlunt put down Taimi in the story by calling her "Progeny" as a diminutive?

Do you get upset every time an Asura in game insults your intelligence?
No.
Or you would have started a thread a long time ago.

This is in fact a non-issue you are choosing to conflate.

 

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1 minute ago, Teratus.2859 said:

It just seems so...... harmless is probably the best word I can go with here.

I mean I could understand if it was something more bold or a word that is more intentionally insulting but infantile is just so mild by comparison.
It's hard for someone like me to comprehend that people would find this insulting enough to call for it to be changed tbh.. it's a bit baffling to me.

 

You're right, for someone who hasn't been - like many, MANY disabled people - dealing with this for a long time... it can be hard to understand why this is so bothersome. It can seem irrational. It can seem totally out of proportion, because "infantile" is not a word that gets bleeped or blurred or anything like that in everyday usage. It's not a slur. 

 

But, that doesn't mean it's not causing harm. I'm certain I'm not the only one who's bothered by it, though I might be the only one complaining about it. Disabled folks are routinely told... well, a lot of the things I've been told up the thread... whenever they complain about things like this. No matter how mildly they do it. 

 

Or, heck, maybe I'm alone in this and community consensus on this is it's fine. Whatever. Now that I've seen it I'll just not play SAB. It's not the first gameplay experience in GW2 I've skipped, and won't be the last. I'd rather not skip it for this reason, but that's life for you. It's not the first business - or in this case, element thereof - I've chosen not to patronize because of accessibility issues.

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16 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

This is your own projection on the lore. It is not backed up by anything in game,and is in fact something you are flat out making up.
How many times does Phlunt put down Taimi in the story by calling her "Progeny" as a diminutive?

Do you get upset every time an Asura in game insults your intelligence?
No.
Or you would have started a thread a long time ago.

This is in fact a non-issue you are choosing to conflate.

 

 

Then HECK, call it "progeny" mode. Use the terminology that Asura tend to use when referring to their own children. Sure, it's in character infantilization... but that actually doesn't bother me. In character a**holes exist, and that's fine. I care that they chose a term with out of character emotional weight and baggage attached. 

 

Also, you need to stop dictating to me how I should feel. Just stop doing that. It is rude and condescending. I won't tell you how you should feel; you stop telling me how I should feel. Stop telling me to relax, to breathe, to just lie back and enjoy the content, and to do anything else like that. Not only does that not actually do any of those things (since when has telling someone to relax EVER made them go "oh gee I think I'll take that sage advice"?), it actively makes this whole discussion less productive. If you don't, I just won't reply to any further messages from you. 

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10 minutes ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

I care that they chose a term with out of character emotional weight and baggage attached. 

 

The only person who has attached weight and baggage to this is you, not the devs.  Sorry bro.

You want productive, then go reflect on why this word triggers you so bad.  It's not the game, SAB or the devs.  This is 100% you.

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