WvWvW Roaming Balance

[Kozumi.5816]

1 hour ago, Exciton.8942 said:

Specter should get all the nerfs it got in PvP except for scepter/dagger 3 initiative increase.

Every spec should get every nerf it got in sPvP.

[Sahne.6950]

On 4/1/2022 at 4:48 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Which is no difference from PoF builds that can 1v3, is it? 

But you can do a simple sanity check on it. Do anyone he fight 1v1 bring him below 66% hp? If so 3 people should always, without question, be able to kill him. If you cant... perhaps you just got poor counters. It happens you know.

we can kill him as 3! but the sheer fact that he is winning 50% of that fights is hilarious xD because as soon as he switches to his Holo or even nadescrapper it turns into fair 1v1s again..... back to mechanist, and we all 3 dont stand a chance. (im playing Renegade,Soulbeast,Fireweaver; All 3 classes dont even have a slim chance; my buddys play Powerherald and Reaper)

Imo Mechanist is simply overtuned when it comes to sustain.

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

we can kill him as 3! but the sheer fact that he is winning 50% of that fights is hilarious xD because as soon as he switches to his Holo or even nadescrapper it turns into fair 1v1s again..... back to mechanist, and we all 3 dont stand a chance. (im playing Renegade,Soulbeast,Fireweaver; All 3 classes dont even have a slim chance; my buddys play Powerherald and Reaper)

Imo Mechanist is simply overtuned when it comes to sustain.

Which still doesnt really say much, because its one case - your case. And few others seem to complain about it, nor is it evident in game because few run mechanist (only saw one in a group yesterday and their herald was far more dangerous).

I've met elementalists that I cannot kill on my engineer. Simply impossible. No chance. I can barely get them below 90% hp, they evade, dodge, block *everything*, they instantly heal any damage I apply and in turn tear through my armor like its butter. Usually when meeting one it doesnt matter if we're 2 or 3, they just do the same.

... and then I see thieves just go lolololol and kill the same eles in 2 seconds.

WvW is a team mode with wildly varying builds and skills. People seem to forget that and just think that if they cant beat something, its broken. 

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Which still doesnt really say much, because its one case - your case. And few others seem to complain about it, nor is it evident in game because few run mechanist (only saw one in a group yesterday and their herald was far more dangerous).

I've met elementalists that I cannot kill on my engineer. Simply impossible. No chance. I can barely get them below 90% hp, they evade, dodge, block *everything*, they instantly heal any damage I apply and in turn tear through my armor like its butter. Usually when meeting one it doesnt matter if we're 2 or 3, they just do the same.

... and then I see thieves just go lolololol and kill the same eles in 2 seconds.

WvW is a team mode with wildly varying builds and skills. People seem to forget that and just think that if they cant beat something, its broken. 

i 100% agree. Matchups mean alot in Gw2. But believe me! This build has it all! Damage,Sustain,mobility,Boons,A FLIPPING GIANT ROBOT EATING 50% of skills that you throw at the engie.

We tested multiple Builds(CeleRenegade,Power/CondiSoulbeast/Fireweaver/Nadescrapper/Reaper) and even fought 3v1. The problem with this specific build is that it can maintain a perfect coverage of Stability and Alacrity. You simply CANT CC this Engie,nor can you CC the Mech, unless you corrupt the stabi... But then it still has stunbreaks. He literally runs circles around you/ thru his mech and you cant stop him thru CC, The only thing that stops it is a coordinated Condiburst from Multiple people. This build is literally unkillable unless you outnumber it or the Mechanist greeds to much.

If you are EU i sincerly invite you to come and fight me on this build! It is so obnoxious and you will notice it in a heartbeat.

Please just imagine how busted mechanist was when it released... how it turned spvp into a mess. The WvW version dodged all of the meaningfull nerfs + it can utilize Celestial...... This Build doesnt die:D I mean in all honesty... It 100% is overtuned and needs some of the nerfs that the spvp version received, most noteworthy the nerf to alacrity, so it actually has windows between the cooldowns where he is vulnerable.

Edit: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAk6lxy8YWMXWMe6SfxdA-zRRYVRDnPcQBnRmSguVAa8SEmNwrJErWA-e

If you want to squeeze out more damage you can switch some Celepieces for more Diviner and use Healingpowerinfusions instead of concentration. But i would not advise it, as you sit comfortably on 25 might all the time and thats all a Celebuild needs! This is the exact build that my brother is using. This is 100% the strongest Build roaming around in WvW, since they butchered Mirage back in the day. For real.... Elixir U and Crisis Zone are enough to have 100% stabiuptime.... Now add the Permanen Alacrity ontop and you never have to worry about not having stabi anymore. Completly busted! Having 90+% Boonduration on a almost full Celebuild.... YEAAAH BALANCE!  If you ever find youself in the situation that someone corrupts you stabi... Fear not! You still have stunbreaks at your hand and ATLEAST 30 seconds of protection on you. You will be fine.

Enjoy.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Dawdler.8521]

3 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i 100% agree. Matchups mean alot in Gw2. But believe me! This build has it all! Damage,Sustain,mobility,Boons,A FLIPPING GIANT ROBOT EATING 50% of skills that you throw at the engie.

We tested multiple Builds(CeleRenegade,Power/CondiSoulbeast/Fireweaver/Nadescrapper/Reaper) and even fought 3v1. The problem with this specific build is that it can maintain a perfect coverage of Stability and Alacrity. You simply CANT CC this Engie,nor can you CC the Mech, unless you corrupt the stabi... But then it still has stunbreaks. This build is literally unkillable unless you outnumber it or the Mechanist greeds to much.

If you are EU i sincerly invite you to come and fight me on this build! It is so obnoxious and you will notice it in a heartbeat.

Winning or loosing wouldnt mean anything. Thats the point. Maybe I'm absolute kitten and you're a pro pvper. Also fighting WSR this week and they got enough obnoxious players as it is.

[Hotride.2187]

7 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Winning or loosing wouldnt mean anything. Thats the point. Maybe I'm absolute kitten and you're a pro pvper. Also fighting WSR this week and they got enough obnoxious players as it is.

Is that true though? After enough roaming/conquest you develop a feeling for what is busted (what you must absolutely dodge or space or cleanse or mitigate, etc.) or what is too much sustain. IMO the invitation is not so much about losing, it is about experiencing firsthand that a build just doesnt die yet still dishes out respectable amounts of dmg.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i 100% agree. Matchups mean alot in Gw2. But believe me! This build has it all! Damage,Sustain,mobility,Boons,A FLIPPING GIANT ROBOT EATING 50% of skills that you throw at the engie.

We tested multiple Builds(CeleRenegade,Power/CondiSoulbeast/Fireweaver/Nadescrapper/Reaper) and even fought 3v1. The problem with this specific build is that it can maintain a perfect coverage of Stability and Alacrity. You simply CANT CC this Engie,nor can you CC the Mech, unless you corrupt the stabi... But then it still has stunbreaks. He literally runs circles around you/ thru his mech and you cant stop him thru CC, The only thing that stops it is a coordinated Condiburst from Multiple people. This build is literally unkillable unless you outnumber it or the Mechanist greeds to much.

If you are EU i sincerly invite you to come and fight me on this build! It is so obnoxious and you will notice it in a heartbeat.

Please just imagine how busted mechanist was when it released... how it turned spvp into a mess. The WvW version dodged all of the meaningfull nerfs + it can utilize Celestial...... This Build doesnt die:D I mean in all honesty... It 100% is overtuned and needs some of the nerfs that the spvp version received, most noteworthy the nerf to alacrity, so it actually has windows between the cooldowns where he is vulnerable.

Edit: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAk6lxy8YWMXWMe6SfxdA-zRRYVRDnPcQBnRmSguVAa8SEmNwrJErWA-e

If you want to squeeze out more damage you can switch some Celepieces for more Diviner and use Healingpowerinfusions instead of concentration. But i would not advise it, as you sit comfortably on 25 might all the time and thats all a Celebuild needs! This is the exact build that my brother is using. This is 100% the strongest Build roaming around in WvW, since they butchered Mirage back in the day. For real.... Elixir U and Crisis Zone are enough to have 100% stabiuptime.... Now add the Permanen Alacrity ontop and you never have to worry about not having stabi anymore. Completly busted! Having 90+% Boonduration on a almost full Celebuild.... YEAAAH BALANCE!  If you ever find youself in the situation that someone corrupts you stabi... Fear not! You still have stunbreaks at your hand and ATLEAST 30 seconds of protection on you. You will be fine.

Enjoy.

 

Pretty sure I have fought a few people running close to this same build in NA. Was it annoying to fight in 1v1? Yes. It was extremely hard to kill even with the high amount of boonrip and damage in my build (power Mes). I lost most of the duels but 100% of them were incredibly boring and if they weren't duels I could/would have easily disengaged. But, I am having trouble seeing this being an issue in anything more than a 1v1. Perhaps I just haven't seen enough of them and haven't had the opportunity to outnumber fight them but idk...I'd think that Mechanist has really poor scaling in any 1vX situation due to the nature of relying on the AI so much. 

[zinkz.7045]

Redacted.

Edited April 4, 2022 by zinkz.7045

[Zero.3871]

On 3/31/2022 at 7:03 PM, Grebcol.5984 said:

For Specter: I think only 3 needs some number adjustement but overall it is Okay also the ports.

 

Harbinger: Yea i saw also such abonimation. It has the sustain like a necro, the mobility like a thief and the condi dmg directly from soo-wons kitten. There should be made some tradeoffs here.

 

 

tbh, you can calculate it by yourself. reaper shroud 2 600 range leap on 6 seconds cd.

harbinger shroud 3 600 range leap on 10 sec cd + 600 range leap by shroud 4 has 18 sec cd 600 range leap.

within 20 seconds harbinger can use 2 times shroud 3 and 1 times shroud 4 for 1800 range.

reaper can use 3 times shroud 2 600 range leap for 1800 range.

in fact harbinger is EVEN fast as reaper. and reaper is in fact one of the slowest classes in game. so the statement mobility like a thief is simply wrong.

condi dmg is mainly torment that has the lowest ticks of all condis in game as long as you move. the only harbinger spell that can catch you for more then 1 second in shroud 5 which has 25 sec cd. so if you have just 1 stunbreak in your build. you should have no problems with condis by harbinger. in fact every burn build on guard, ele or any other burn abuser does way higher ticks than harbinger ever could, nd most people doesnt seem to have problems with burning. so im confused how you die on condis from harbinger...

and harbinger sustain is provable one of the lowest in game. still no blocks, invulns, invis and just 1 dodge on 18 sec cd in its kit. some regeneration, but every class has access to those healings like rangers, engis, eles, warriors, guardss,.... so even here not better then anything else.

the one really strong thing on harbinger is its burst, that got already nerfed (that was necessary and good) in last patch by around 35%.

the problem is people dont know how to fight vs harbinger. because harbinger is like godmode on its ult elixier. outside of the ult its fairly balanced, low sustain, high dmg. after using ult it has 5-7 seconds all boons what makes him the 1v1 god. the one thing i would honestly review is the number of might stacks when using ult. reducing it from 25 to 15 stacks would already take out another 300 power in its best power spike.  everything else is fine imo.

 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 But, I am having trouble seeing this being an issue in anything more than a 1v1.

Because it really isnt. It's the kind of build that would be classed as a good duelist, but a poor smallscaler (and even worse at anything above 5+). I've said this before in other threads - the mechanist is brute force. It got good boons, sure. But if you take the mechanist, you pretty much loose all the utility of an engineer that can turn group fights. For some that's gonna be just fine. For others... Yeah I'd rather turn a hard fight by throwing moa on a hard target, having more elixirs so I can invouln stomp, have stealth that I can use to help my downed buddies avoid a stomp, etc. Mechanist can do some of it half-assed but since it has no F functions the more you divert from a full on signet boon tank mechanist, the more pointless actually picking mechanist become.

The mechanist can fight with the holo over who's the "best" at this.

[smiiirf.3201]

16 hours ago, Zero.3871 said:

tbh, you can calculate it by yourself. reaper shroud 2 600 range leap on 6 seconds cd.

harbinger shroud 3 600 range leap on 10 sec cd + 600 range leap by shroud 4 has 18 sec cd 600 range leap.

within 20 seconds harbinger can use 2 times shroud 3 and 1 times shroud 4 for 1800 range.

reaper can use 3 times shroud 2 600 range leap for 1800 range.

in fact harbinger is EVEN fast as reaper. and reaper is in fact one of the slowest classes in game. so the statement mobility like a thief is simply wrong.

condi dmg is mainly torment that has the lowest ticks of all condis in game as long as you move. the only harbinger spell that can catch you for more then 1 second in shroud 5 which has 25 sec cd. so if you have just 1 stunbreak in your build. you should have no problems with condis by harbinger. in fact every burn build on guard, ele or any other burn abuser does way higher ticks than harbinger ever could, nd most people doesnt seem to have problems with burning. so im confused how you die on condis from harbinger...

and harbinger sustain is provable one of the lowest in game. still no blocks, invulns, invis and just 1 dodge on 18 sec cd in its kit. some regeneration, but every class has access to those healings like rangers, engis, eles, warriors, guardss,.... so even here not better then anything else.

the one really strong thing on harbinger is its burst, that got already nerfed (that was necessary and good) in last patch by around 35%.

the problem is people dont know how to fight vs harbinger. because harbinger is like godmode on its ult elixier. outside of the ult its fairly balanced, low sustain, high dmg. after using ult it has 5-7 seconds all boons what makes him the 1v1 god. the one thing i would honestly review is the number of might stacks when using ult. reducing it from 25 to 15 stacks would already take out another 300 power in its best power spike.  everything else is fine imo.

 

 

Cele Harbinger is disgusting Overpowered in WvWvW. That has nothing to do with a L2p issue.

[Sahne.6950]

16 hours ago, Legendary Defender.5631 said:

if youre having issues with harbinger and spector than maybe its your skill cap and not the profession. I have had absolutely no issues with them as matter as fact i find them incredibly weak.

 No buddy! he is right. There is DISGUSTING CelestialHarbinger builds! Maybe you have not met a good one yet. But i can tell you that CelestialHarbingers are INCREDIBLY strong in Smallscale.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Hotride.2187]

7 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

 No buddy! he is right. There is DISGUSTING CelestialHarbinger builds! Maybe you have not met a good one yet. But i can tell you that CelestialHarbingers are INCREDIBLY strong in Smallscale.

That was actually the only type of harbringer that did anything in the first beta. But its a necro spec so they had to buff it.

[Dawdler.8521]

On 4/7/2022 at 11:07 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

 No buddy! he is right. There is DISGUSTING CelestialHarbinger builds! Maybe you have not met a good one yet. But i can tell you that CelestialHarbingers are INCREDIBLY strong in Smallscale.

I met one yesterday, harassing garri. In the time I actually recognized the icon was a harbinger, realized his AA could be major trouble and said "I'm going to need help with this guy" to my buddies on discord he had gone from 100% shroud 100% HP to 0% hp.

It was rather anti climactic.

[Sahne.6950]

5 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I met one yesterday, harassing garri. In the time I actually recognized the icon was a harbinger, realized his AA could be major trouble and said "I'm going to need help with this guy" to my buddies on discord he had gone from 100% shroud 100% HP to 0% hp.

It was rather anti climactic.

haha:D i laughed a little. Guess he was just bad then... idk :D We have a little duellscene going on in our Guild and basicly Celestialharbinger and CelestialMechanist are dominating our little tournaments.

[Khenzy.9348]

On 4/6/2022 at 6:42 PM, Legendary Defender.5631 said:

if youre having issues with harbinger and spector than maybe its your skill cap and not the profession. I have had absolutely no issues with them as matter as fact i find them incredibly weak.

Such a terrible take, or just a troll (I bet on the later). 

 

Every half decent roamer knows by now that Cele Harbinger is completely and utterly busted. Specter is not that far behind either.

 

This End of Dragons expansion is killing the roaming scene faster than ever. It's a sad sight.

[Sahne.6950]

On 4/8/2022 at 4:54 PM, Khenzy.9348 said:

 

 

Every half decent roamer knows by now that Cele Harbinger is completely and utterly busted.

This End of Dragons expansion is killing the roaming scene faster than ever. It's a sad sight.

 

What?! people in this forum keep telling me that you never see EoD specs in WvW because they all succ 😛

Especially Celestialharbinger is supposed to bebad! Atleast thats what they tell me here *shrug*

No for real... Celeharbinger is busted af and there is no denying that xD.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[BobbyT.7192]

Please don't increase initiative cost anymore than they are, reduce thw effects. Im tired not being able to use a skill if I use any ability.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

On 4/8/2022 at 6:47 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

haha:D i laughed a little. Guess he was just bad then... idk 😄 We have a little duellscene going on in our Guild and basicly Celestialharbinger and CelestialMechanist are dominating our little tournaments.

umm, Mechanist can't kill a thing if you kite around. They have sustain and you may not able to kill them easily but that's about it. Harbringer on other hand feels like real REAPER.

[hedap.5801]

7 classes abuse celestial for the past year, making it hard for power reapers and daredevils to actually kill anything - calm
daredevil and reaper get a spec where they can abuse celestial - panic

 

if u haven't acknowledged the fact that cele outperforms any pure condi, or power - are u even a half-decent roamer ? 👀

 

On 3/31/2022 at 8:00 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

It is not Harbinger, it is Celestial. The exact same happens with Weaver, Mirage and on a lesser degree, Renegade and Firebrand.

 

+

[Sahne.6950]

12 minutes ago, hedap.5801 said:

7 classes abuse celestial for the past year, making it hard for power reapers and daredevils to actually kill anything - calm
daredevil and reaper get a spec where they can abuse celestial - panic

 

if u haven't acknowledged the fact that cele outperforms any pure condi, or power - are u even a half-decent roamer ? 👀

 

 

+

is it really celestial? or is it how easy it is to stack might to 25 nowadays?  I am asking for a friend.

Celestial getting Concentration surely doesnt help here.... but i think the actual problem is how easy it is to get 25 might nowadays.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[hedap.5801]

5 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

is it really celestial? or is it how easy it is to stack might to 25 nowadays?  I am asking for a friend.

Celestial getting Concentration surely doesnt help here.... but i think the actual problem is how easy it is to get 25 might nowadays.

 

if u do a balance of condi damage  and power in the traits (self-boon on top if posssible) then u dont need the might.

 

 example: if want a power reaper based on celestial gear, then yeah u need the might generation from spite, but having 700 vitality, toughness and concentration u can ignore defensive line all together  and go spite + soul reaping 

 

 

[Sahne.6950]

2 minutes ago, hedap.5801 said:

 

if u do a balance of condi damage  and power in the traits (self-boon on top if posssible) then u dont need the might.

 

 example: if want a power reaper based on celestial gear, then yeah u need the might generation from spite, but having 700 vitality, toughness and concentration u can ignore defensive line all together  and go spite + soul reaping 

 

 

i dont really agree. Yeah you dont NEED the might your right.... but a Celestialbuild becomes really opressive when it has 25 might, if it doesnt... its just some kind of bunker.

A Celestialbuild WITH 25 might is where the problems begin.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Dawdler.8521]

Just now, hedap.5801 said:

 

if u do a balance of condi damage  and power in the traits (self-boon on top if posssible) then u dont need the might.

You get 750 more power *and* condi dmg from 25 stacks of might so not sure how the balance between the two relate?

[hedap.5801]

3 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i dont really agree. Yeah you dont NEED the might your right.... but a Celestialbuild becomes really opressive when it has 25 might, if it doesnt... its just some kind of bunker.

A Celestialbuild WITH 25 might is where the problems begin.

u can disagree.

 

i mean, it depends what specific build we talk about. cele renegades and firebrands are never able to generate 25 might, they generate SOME.  cele rene around 15 - 20.  fb 10 + -