Before you enter ranked conquest

[Pyriel.4370]

Please use the following guidelines before pugging conquest ranked:

- each death you have gives the enemy 5 points. So if you notice you are dying a lot, don’t do the thing you are doing and try something different like…..

- learn to rotate, going in one by one into an aoe meat grinder only gives em points and you downtime.

- if you are support, straddle team fights and don’t get separated.

- if there is a support with you in a team fight. Don’t wander off, stay near them where possible.

- use targeting and focus who is targeted, usually it’s for a reason.

- learn to safely stomp. Stability, blind, things like guard focus 5, etc. all these stop you getting knocked about and helps you secure a stomp.

- notice someone doing high damage but their health is going up and down? Target them, a dead person does 0 damage and they are likely squishy.

- notice your team member down and an enemy down? Gun for that stomp more than anything unless it’s covered by aoe as it will rally your teammate back to life. Don’t…..for the love of god…..don’t pick a fight with a nearby interrupter. Use stability or blind and get the job done.

- if mid is a meat grinder, go sides. Don’t tunnel into mid. Again, don’t tunnel into mid. You are only giving them free points.

- new build or new to a profession? Cool! Don’t bring it into ranked. Learn it in unranked first.

- Stomp in team fights. Unless you are pro and know what you are doing. Just stomp. Don’t hard Rez or dance about. Stomp. It’s a potential free Rez for a downed ally, 5 points for your team and a 4v5 for 15+ seconds for the other team depending.

- if you see a low enemy, kill them. It doesn’t take much and that’s someone down. Don’t be engaging the full health enemy when a low health one is nearby.

- teams wiped? Regroup and Zerg close, try to secure a kill or 2 and snowball. Don’t go back in 1 by 1, you will be farmed. 
- if you are ranged, DONT GO INTO MELEE UNLESS YOU ARE STOMPING. Make it harder for an enemy to just spam your team down. 
- if you are melee, don’t go out of range unless you are disengaging or healing. 
- do not fight off points. You’re allowing them to tick up points while a couple just hold you off and turtle. It isn’t team death match.

 

Finally, please, for the love of god, bring SOME condi cleanse.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Pyriel.4370

[Grimjack.8130]

ahhhhhh terrible advice very exciting

[Swagg.9236]

I don't know why, but for some reason GW2's PvP community is just irrationally angry and judgmental about people experimenting and learning the game at their own pace.  No one is good at something before one is first bad at it, and nobody is going to get any better at a structured activity if they are gatekept away from said activity (i.e. "Go play unranked first before you dare step food in my hallowed ground where people at least attempt to establish and propagate a certain level of perceived structure and strategy").  I mean, GW2 doesn't even feature a super high skill ceiling anyway; and most people are pretty capable of figuring something of this level out pretty quickly and judging for themselves whether they honestly enjoy the experience or not.  However, considering the game's stagnant, post-expansion population, you have to accept that there is probably more an fundamental issue with the game itself rather than overall player skill level.

But seriously, GW2 is like a bizarre, FGC community except that there's nothing but tantrums and the game isn't even that complicated.  Like, what the heck, dude, just let people play the game.  None of it matters.  You can't push yourself in GW2.  Stop pretending.

[Crab Fear.1624]

17 minutes ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

ahhhhhh terrible advice very exciting

 

13 minutes ago, Swagg.9236 said:

I don't know why, but for some reason GW2's PvP community is just irrationally angry and judgmental about people experimenting and learning the game at their own pace.  No one is good at something before one is first bad at it, and nobody is going to get any better at a structured activity if they are gatekept away from said activity (i.e. "Go play unranked first before you dare step food in my hallowed ground where people at least attempt to establish and propagate a certain level of perceived structure and strategy").  I mean, GW2 doesn't even feature a super high skill ceiling anyway; and most people are pretty capable of figuring something of this level out pretty quickly and judging for themselves whether they honestly enjoy the experience or not.  However, considering the game's stagnant, post-expansion population, you have to accept that there is probably more an fundamental issue with the game itself rather than overall player skill level.

But seriously, GW2 is like a bizarre, FGC community except that there's nothing but tantrums and the game isn't even that complicated.  Like, what the heck, dude, just let people play the game.  None of it matters.  You can't push yourself in GW2.  Stop pretending.

 

When sound advice is bad, and asking players to practice and  learn new builds in unranked, one as a courtesy to the community, and two, to save your own rank...

 

I'm half convinced this is Grimjacks attempt at sarcasm, sometimes he has a brain.

[Crozame.4098]

52 minutes ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

Please use the following guidelines before pugging conquest ranked:

- each death you have gives the enemy 5 points. So if you notice you are dying a lot, don’t do the thing you are doing and try something different like…..

- learn to rotate, going in one by one into an aoe meat grinder only gives em points and you downtime.

- if you are support, straddle team fights and don’t get separated.

- if there is a support with you in a team fight. Don’t wander off, stay near them where possible.

- use targeting and focus who is targeted, usually it’s for a reason.

- learn to safely stomp. Stability, blind, things like guard focus 5, etc. all these stop you getting knocked about and helps you secure a stomp.

- notice someone doing high damage but their health is going up and down? Target them, a dead person does 0 damage and they are likely squishy.

- notice your team member down and an enemy down? Gun for that stomp more than anything unless it’s covered by aoe as it will rally your teammate back to life. Don’t…..for the love of god…..don’t pick a fight with a nearby interrupter. Use stability or blind and get the job done.

- if mid is a meat grinder, go sides. Don’t tunnel into mid. Again, don’t tunnel into mid. You are only giving them free points.

- new build or new to a profession? Cool! Don’t bring it into ranked. Learn it in unranked first.

- Stomp in team fights. Unless you are pro and know what you are doing. Just stomp. Don’t hard Rez or dance about. Stomp. It’s a potential free Rez for a downed ally, 5 points for your team and a 4v5 for 15+ seconds for the other team depending.

- if you see a low enemy, kill them. It doesn’t take much and that’s someone down. Don’t be engaging the full health enemy when a low health one is nearby.

- teams wiped? Regroup and Zerg close, try to secure a kill or 2 and snowball. Don’t go back in 1 by 1, you will be farmed. 
- if you are ranged, DONT GO INTO MELEE UNLESS YOU ARE STOMPING. Make it harder for an enemy to just spam your team down. 
- if you are melee, don’t go out of range unless you are disengaging or healing. 
- do not fight off points. You’re allowing them to tick up points while a couple just hold you off and turtle. It isn’t team death match.

 

Finally, please, for the love of god, bring SOME condi cleanse.

If you remove the - do not fight off points.  Then others are fine. 

 

Its even contradicting your own advices...

For example, fight on point means likely to eat all the aoes and die. 

Kite around for survival also means you need to be off point.

ranged dps if on point, become less ranged.

Also, if the low enemies have some iq, they are probably kiting off node, so you need to also finish them offnode...

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Crozame.4098

[Crab Fear.1624]

1 minute ago, Crozame.4098 said:

If you remove the - do not fight off points.  Then others are fine. 

 

Its even contradicting your own advices...

For example, fight on point means likely to eat all the aoes and die. 

Kite around for survival also means you need to be off point.

ranged dps if on point, become less ranged.

Also, if the low enemies have some iq, they are probably kiting off node, so you need to also finish them offnode...

 

What if fight on point just means being within a reasonable area and not far off in dickwood bleeding out after a foolish chase?

 

What if it means, commit to the fight that is most important?

 Though, it could literally just mean die in aoe on point.

[Downstate.4697]

Everything about pvp is assessing risk and players need to experience what risk is worth taking and what isnt. What I am saying is focus on your own gameplay as thats the only thing within your control

[Pyriel.4370]

24 minutes ago, Crozame.4098 said:

If you remove the - do not fight off points.  Then others are fine. 

 

Its even contradicting your own advices...

For example, fight on point means likely to eat all the aoes and die. 

Kite around for survival also means you need to be off point.

ranged dps if on point, become less ranged.

Also, if the low enemies have some iq, they are probably kiting off node, so you need to also finish them offnode...

 

Not contradicting. The amount of players I see where a whole group get caught skirmishing in between close and mid while a roamer on the other side just decaps/caps points round the back. Fighting on or around points helps stop that. 
 

e.g how many people do you see fighting at the bottom of Clocktower? Or in the underneath bits of silent storm between mid and close/far? Or at the bottom of the keep? Without view or possibility of getting to the points in a timely fashion?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

Please use the following guidelines before pugging conquest ranked:

- each death you have gives the enemy 5 points. So if you notice you are dying a lot, don’t do the thing you are doing and try something different like…..

- learn to rotate, going in one by one into an aoe meat grinder only gives em points and you downtime.

- if you are support, straddle team fights and don’t get separated.

- if there is a support with you in a team fight. Don’t wander off, stay near them where possible.

- use targeting and focus who is targeted, usually it’s for a reason.

- learn to safely stomp. Stability, blind, things like guard focus 5, etc. all these stop you getting knocked about and helps you secure a stomp.

- notice someone doing high damage but their health is going up and down? Target them, a dead person does 0 damage and they are likely squishy.

- notice your team member down and an enemy down? Gun for that stomp more than anything unless it’s covered by aoe as it will rally your teammate back to life. Don’t…..for the love of god…..don’t pick a fight with a nearby interrupter. Use stability or blind and get the job done.

- if mid is a meat grinder, go sides. Don’t tunnel into mid. Again, don’t tunnel into mid. You are only giving them free points.

- new build or new to a profession? Cool! Don’t bring it into ranked. Learn it in unranked first.

- Stomp in team fights. Unless you are pro and know what you are doing. Just stomp. Don’t hard Rez or dance about. Stomp. It’s a potential free Rez for a downed ally, 5 points for your team and a 4v5 for 15+ seconds for the other team depending.

- if you see a low enemy, kill them. It doesn’t take much and that’s someone down. Don’t be engaging the full health enemy when a low health one is nearby.

- teams wiped? Regroup and Zerg close, try to secure a kill or 2 and snowball. Don’t go back in 1 by 1, you will be farmed. 
- if you are ranged, DONT GO INTO MELEE UNLESS YOU ARE STOMPING. Make it harder for an enemy to just spam your team down. 
- if you are melee, don’t go out of range unless you are disengaging or healing. 
- do not fight off points. You’re allowing them to tick up points while a couple just hold you off and turtle. It isn’t team death match.

 

Finally, please, for the love of god, bring SOME condi cleanse.

You forgot to add:

- Please stop win trading and using multi-window bot throws.

 

37 minutes ago, Swagg.9236 said:

I don't know why, but for some reason GW2's PvP community is just irrationally angry and judgmental about people experimenting and learning the game at their own pace.

That's only what it looks like. At least 50% of the time it is actual purposeful throwing.

 

8 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

What if fight on point just means being within a reasonable area and not far off in dickwood bleeding out after a foolish chase?

This is currently the epitome of stupid uncarriable GW2 matches. When you rope-a-dope a 1v3 at far and are actually somehow winning or at least surviving and stalling those 3 players, but for some reason 4 of your players decide to chase 1 guy up & down the djinn bottle or something stupid like that for over 60+ seconds, while 1 opponent casually walks and full caps home and mid. Somehow your teammates are so bad, whether it is bots, throwing, new players, or a bad algorithm, that they can actually still lose a match when they have a player on their team who is capable of pulling God Tier 1v3 victories.

It's in those moments that you realize the match making in GW2 ranked is completely botched, whatever it is you may want to blame it on.

[Pyriel.4370]

1 hour ago, Swagg.9236 said:

I don't know why, but for some reason GW2's PvP community is just irrationally angry and judgmental about people experimenting and learning the game at their own pace.

If someone is learning why are they in ranked? Some people want to climb ranks without a dude/dudette trying to figure out pvp on their team? That’s what unranked is for. None of the above is irrationally angry, they are common mistakes I see over and over. 
 

e.g the amount of times where I have been in a match where my team loses mid but capably holds sides until they get bored and start tunnelling to the mid then lose the match wondering what happened. 

[Swagg.9236]

52 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

 

When sound advice is bad, and asking players to practice and  learn new builds in unranked, one as a courtesy to the community, and two, to save your own rank...

 

I'm half convinced this is Grimjacks attempt at sarcasm, sometimes he has a brain.

Considering the full-team stack/roll exists in unranked and people aren't going to take unranked matches as seriously (i.e. roll regular builds) as ranked ones--even considering the fact that GW2 is still a very simple game--can you really say that such an environment is truly, consistently conducive to bettering one's self for actual ranked matches?  GW2 rank doesn't matter, dude.  Just find some private pools, guilds or duos and the game plays itself.

[Swagg.9236]

3 minutes ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

If someone is learning why are they in ranked? Some people want to climb ranks without a dude/dudette trying to figure out pvp on their team? That’s what unranked is for. None of the above is irrationally angry, they are common mistakes I see over and over. 
 

e.g the amount of times where I have been in a match where my team loses mid but capably holds sides until they get bored and start tunnelling to the mid then lose the match wondering what happened. 

Again, if people aren't going to take unranked as seriously as ranked (i.e. you'll see strange or nonsense builds and a general lack of coordination) or if people are going to stack one side with a 5-man team or something, how is that honestly preparing the random dude who's never touched GW2 for what the ranked environment is?  Ranked would only have duos, the builds would be different, and the expectations could be consistently different.  How is that actually training anybody?  You have two very distinct and parallel gamestates.

You might as well just let people play whatever they want and decide if they actually want to stomach GW2 PvP lmao.  It becomes clear very quickly what wins.  The biggest hurdle as a player is whether or not to conform to a low-effort, patch note meta.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Swagg.9236

[Pyriel.4370]

Just now, Swagg.9236 said:

Again, if people aren't going to take unranked as seriously as ranked (i.e. you'll see strange or nonsense builds and a general lack of coordination) or if people are going to stack one side with a 5-man team or something, how is that honestly preparing the random dude who's never touched GW2 for what the ranked environment is?  Ranked would only have duos, the builds would be different, and the expectations could be consistently different.  How is that actually training anybody?  You have two very distinct and parallel gamestates.

Still able to learn the basics of a build or profession in unranked. What is wrong with learning a bit before going on ranked? People in ranked may be out for the Legendary backpiece, trying to get achieves and titles etc. Some just don’t want to be in a pvp team with someone to carry and like to maybe win one or at least not get steamrolled in an effective 4v5. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

15 minutes ago, Swagg.9236 said:

Again, if people aren't going to take unranked as seriously as ranked (i.e. you'll see strange or nonsense builds and a general lack of coordination) or if people are going to stack one side with a 5-man team or something, how is that honestly preparing the random dude who's never touched GW2 for what the ranked environment is?

Dude I think he's referencing the idea behind "just learning what your class does in general, just learning where you should try to be and what you should be doing in general". I don't think he means "practicing in-depth try hard combats and coordinated rotational bursting in unranked".

 

9 minutes ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

Still able to learn the basics of a build or profession in unranked. What is wrong with learning a bit before going on ranked?

I think 90% of anyone reading this immediately understand what you meant with this thread.

Ignore trolling.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Khalisto.5780]

really, at this point who cares

 

if you playing with this ppl i totally garantee it's not their fault, if population was ok the skill gap shouldn't go 100 between the best and worst player.

 

Those ppl literally shouldnt be in those matches (or you shouldn't)

[Rogue.8235]

1 hour ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

- each death you have gives the enemy 5 points. So if you notice you are dying a lot, don’t do the thing you are doing and try something different like…..

 

"I keep dying when I run into 4 players by myself.  Over and over again.  Oh, I know.  I'll keep doing it for the rest of the match.  I'll definitely win on this respawn."

"Every time I go straight to mid after re spawning, regardless of what my team is doing, I die.  Hmmm... I think I'm going to go straight to mid after respawn.  This time will be different."

If this isn't what goes through players heads, I'm not sure what is going on that makes people think doing the same thing that kills them over and over again is a good idea.

 

[Swagg.9236]

15 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Dude I think he's referencing the idea behind "just learning what your class does in general, just learning where you should try to be and what you should be doing in general". I don't think he means "practicing in-depth try hard combats and coordinated rotational bursting in unranked".

 

I think 90% of anyone reading this immediately understand what you meant with this thread.

Ignore trolling.

Criticism of the false importance placed on GW2 PvP is trolling?  Coordinating a burst isn't even that hard in GW2.  I just don't see a reason why it matters to anybody whether or not a random new player decides to roll around in ranked without a lot of pretense.  If you want to hit plat consistently, you're in some group of people who just feed duo queues through the system and plop out in p2.  It's that simple.  People running around in ranked without knowledge of the game aren't going to stop you from achieving that.  I feel like this thread spawned from just a single game in which somebody got irrationally upset about somebody playing GW2 in a way that isn't the low-effort, creatively devoid grindfest that the patch note meta generally foists upon anyone who wants to get validated by a platinum badge.

[Pimsley.3681]

What's sad is the toxicity in unranked as well. When I Q there, there are often really toxic "know-it-alls" that prevent newer players from understanding the basic concept of conquest. I often tell them to please chill and allow people to learn in this mode. 

 

Unranked is supposed to be a safe haven to learn new builds and such. 

[TheDarkness.6947]

Good advice, OP, but at this point I think it’s not so much a new player issue, but that sPvP has finally and completely imploded on itself due to neglect.

 

Matchmaking is truly atrocious.  Out of my last 10 matches, the losing team hasn’t even reached 300 points in 7 of them.  Couple of them they didn’t even break 100.  These numbers are representative of what it’s been like all season.  One team completely blows the other out - almost  always.  Like an NFL team vs. little league.  Flip a coin for which team you end up on.

 

I don’t know if it’s due to lack of population or win trading, or what.  Probably both.  But it’s pretty much a joke at this point.  Just treat the game mode as a mindless PiP farm, or bail on it. You might get 1 match in 10 that’s actually competitive and fun, if you’re lucky.  Very disappointing for what should be a really fun game mode.

[myun.6395]

No matter how many advices you give, conquest is impossible to understand for beginners.

If you ever had an alt account and you hopped in your first 0 elo match, you see how people goes for kills more than anything, for everyone it's team deathmatch, because there isn't a tutorial.

The more you play the more you understand it's not deathmatch. And here's comes the hard part, rotations. Even high gold/plat players do crap rotations, even myself lot of times I dunno where the heck I should go, because all your teammates lost track of everything plus poor knowledge or their role will make you useless regardless if you play perfectly.

I had a shiro constantly dying 1v1 to me on a duelist spec, he was so full of himself he thought he could outplay me, then he feeded at least 30 points to me startinh calling me noob etc. And this in a plat matchup.

 

So there is nothing to do, just rework conquest completely from zero with gamemodes that other games uses too. Poor deathmatch, capture the flag, domination with 3 teams against and not just 1v1 teams, like red, blue and green.

Easier rules to make points that everyone understands.

 

A new player hop in spvp, can get matches against vets players, completely steamrolled, he won't do pvp ever again. I saw this happens a lot. So the population is low->crap unbalanced matchmaking->more people quitting because of despair-> dead gamemode. Which is the current state of pvp.

[Spellhunter.9675]

10 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This is currently the epitome of stupid uncarriable GW2 matches. When you rope-a-dope a 1v3 at far and are actually somehow winning or at least surviving and stalling those 3 players, but for some reason 4 of your players decide to chase 1 guy up & down the djinn bottle or something stupid like that for over 60+ seconds, while 1 opponent casually walks and full caps home and mid. Somehow your teammates are so bad, whether it is bots, throwing, new players, or a bad algorithm, that they can actually still lose a match when they have a player on their team who is capable of pulling God Tier 1v3 victories.

It's in those moments that you realize the match making in GW2 ranked is completely botched, whatever it is you may want to blame it on.

If you are stalling 1v3 at far and the enemy player can kite 1v4 long enough that basically means he is just carrying harder than you. So he deserves to win more than you.

[Inguz.6493]

At some point in the past I realized that because I so frequently see notably poor plays by "noobs" on my team in any competitive game, the system approximated my skill too and placed me in the same bracket as them for a reason.

[Spellhunter.9675]

2 hours ago, Inguz.6493 said:

At some point in the past I realized that because I so frequently see notably poor plays by "noobs" on my team in any competitive game, the system approximated my skill too and placed me in the same bracket as them for a reason.

It is good point of view for personal skill grow. But due to the pvp population problem and things like Qdodging, duoQ, Gods of 6 AM arena etc. it's not always the case.

[Stalima.5490]

If I may put forward a counter point, why? The game is just going to get match manipulated anyway so what does it matter what you do.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

14 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This is currently the epitome of stupid uncarriable GW2 matches. When you rope-a-dope a 1v3 at far and are actually somehow winning or at least surviving and stalling those 3 players, but for some reason 4 of your players decide to chase 1 guy up & down the djinn bottle or something stupid like that for over 60+ seconds, while 1 opponent casually walks and full caps home and mid. Somehow your teammates are so bad, whether it is bots, throwing, new players, or a bad algorithm, that they can actually still lose a match when they have a player on their team who is capable of pulling God Tier 1v3 victories.

It's in those moments that you realize the match making in GW2 ranked is completely botched, whatever it is you may want to blame it on.

This is the afk mindset that throws games. If you are 1v3 and still losing, that means someone on the enemy team is also 1v3ing, and likely doing a better job of it at that. 

Now ofc there are games that are simply uncarriable, but most ppl treat every lost game as uncarriable whereas most of them would've been. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597