Mounts and the way of clearing content.

[Mithrilos.8036]

Well first Hello people,

I've been thinking about a way to talk about this properly while keeping it constructive and interesting for people. So here we go :

 

Mounts, now they are a proeminent part of the game since PoF. Anet has been searching for new ways of displacement and interaction in 3D with the appearance if glider first. Then mounts like Raptors, and later on Griphons and Skyscales for the flying part. And now we are lurking toward the Fighting role of mounts with Warclaw and Siege Turtle.

As an old player, I've seen two majors changes in the player behaviors for clearing contents between 2012 and Today.  And now I'm looking back trying to check if everything is fine or as intended, of if its me that doesn't "follow the wave".

With all the progression we made and the new additions, I still believe that we lost a little something :

At the beginning, because there was no mounts, everyone was on foot. Important zones as well as Events zone were more lively with people just roaming around, as you could cross people bunch of folks trying to explore or joining up the event.

But things changed first with the appearance of huge trainfarms on some interesting meta maps that the community began to exploit. ( And still probably do from times to times, but I havn't see or be in one in a while ). For that part things were still quite lively, because, again. We were all on foot, together. 

 

Now, I've been back on the game for a month, with the new End of Dragons expension which brought me back to the game. It gave me the clear vision that things, once more has changed, and not really in the good way. I believe, people now, are more distant to each other. You don't really cross people around on foot because the speed of things has increased at alarming rate.  Usually you don't see people taking their time enjoying the content, they are just farming it as fast as possible, and the mount help them greatly for this. I could resume this effect into one specific behavior :

 

That one guy who kill a mob, and bring his Skyscale/Raptor everytime he need to move just for one meter and so on. This kind of things is the exact sign that things are speeding up, and I doubt its a good sign. I, on my part like to enjoy bashing just a group of classic mobs, and using a raptor just to go to the next blob nearby seems a bit too extreme, it makes you win like 2 sec maybe over the one that move on foot. 

I definetly know that some people would answer me and say, "this is for the specific skill". On my part I would say "tryhard" where it isn't really needed. 

 

EDIT : I always wanted some kind of serious combat mount ( the turtle is nowhere near that sadly ) but I think it will worsten this feel. And now we are onward for a 4th, and a new mount will probably be on his way too.

 

So I made this topic, to test waters. Get your opinion, and realise that maybe I'm just too contemplative on this game. But I do believe that people are rushing too much, do they even enjoy the content ? Or is it because they don't have much playtime. Why is the community acting so fast now for farming content or just doing things ? 

Does having a bunch of Skyscales and Raptor jumping on your heads everytime you hit a mob annoys you too ? 

I tried to be clear and respectable as much as possible, sorry if you feel offended in any way. I'm not here to trashtalk on mount, as I enjoy the Raptor and the Skimmer specifically yet, I don't overuse them I believe. If we can even say that ?!

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036
Mistakes and stuff

[Gibson.4036]

Was the person using the raptor using Round Up each time they dismounted?

If you have a reason to go around killing groups of mobs, and your profession doesn't provide that circular pull, it's can be really helpful to cleave more than one mob at a time. I'm not sure that falls into the realm of "tryhard". On my Holosmith I use Prismatic Singularity regularly for this purpose, and feel its lack on my staff Daredevil, who does a lot of cleave damage that is just lost if mobs are spaced out and I have to fight them one at a time.

Though, yes, sometimes it's silly how much we go into our mounts for short distances. But I guess that's human nature. I've even seen a mesmer put down a portal between the bank and the vendor in the Lily of Elon to shortcut that tiny distance between.

On the whole, I'd say any "speeding up" of the game is offset by all the wonderful new ways mounts have given us to encounter the game. It's a totally different experience encountering familiar zones from the air, or learning where the jackal portals go well enough for them to be useful.

It's my perception that the EoD zones have been specifically designed to slow down some of the mounts. Even though I've done all the beetle races in the game, I have trouble smoothly navigating Echovald's twisty roads on my beetle. There are enough sheer drops in New Kaineng and Seitung that I find it frustrating to use my skyscale up them, and will choose stairs or ziplines if I can tell where they are and where they go.

[Hashberry.4510]

I totally hate the way combat and player behavior has evolved with mounts. Lord I wish they had never introduced them, every god kitten ounce of creativity they had has been dumped into the things.

[Mithrilos.8036]

10 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Was the person using the raptor using Round Up each time they dismounted?

If you have a reason to go around killing groups of mobs, and your profession doesn't provide that circular pull, it's can be really helpful to cleave more than one mob at a time. I'm not sure that falls into the realm of "tryhard". On my Holosmith I use Prismatic Singularity regularly for this purpose, and feel its lack on my staff Daredevil, who does a lot of cleave damage that is just lost if mobs are spaced out and I have to fight them one at a time.

Though, yes, sometimes it's silly how much we go into our mounts for short distances. But I guess that's human nature. I've even seen a mesmer put down a portal between the bank and the vendor in the Lily of Elon to shortcut that tiny distance between.

On the whole, I'd say any "speeding up" of the game is offset by all the wonderful new ways mounts have given us to encounter the game. It's a totally different experience encountering familiar zones from the air, or learning where the jackal portals go well enough for them to be useful.

It's my perception that the EoD zones have been specifically designed to slow down some of the mounts. Even though I've done all the beetle races in the game, I have trouble smoothly navigating Echovald's twisty roads on my beetle. There are enough sheer drops in New Kaineng and Seitung that I find it frustrating to use my skyscale up them, and will choose stairs or ziplines if I can tell where they are and where they go.

On my part, I feel more like left behind, but then it is probably by choice. Yet, it feels very frustrating to engage a group of mobs with and having a random dude landing on your head deleting the mob pack instantly just to immediatly go back to its mount and leave immediatly. How do you feel ? Useless ? probably.

 

EDIT : I like to go back on those missions at Eye of the North ( not strike mission, the others ones ). 

Yet sometimes I can't even enjoy the content because the group that joined me, or I joined went so fast at clearing the mission that I barely even managed to contribute, they leave at portal immediatly after the mission is cleared. And you see that kind of thing a lot of time. Of course I'm no pointing my finger out at people, I'm just...wondering  because I feel like I've lost something that I really enjoyed in this game.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[Mithrilos.8036]

I understand that I'm going to get lot of confusing stares. But its honest reflexion here.

[Gibson.4036]

10 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

On my part, I feel more like left behind, but then it is probably by choice. Yet, it feels very frustrating to engage a group of mobs with and having a random dude landing on your head deleting the mob pack instantly just to immediatly go back to its mount and leave immediatly. How do you feel ? Useless ? probably.

Yeah, that is frustrating. Apart from mounts, this can also happen when you are running melee and someone with long range starts one-shotting mobs before you can get to them. Or knocking them back.

Courtesy is valuable. I haven't done the "events in X zone" daily in a long time, since I can always find a more rewarding and quicker daily to get to completionist, but when I used to do them I made an effort to not run over lowbies in a zone, especially in those events with few mobs.

It'd be worth being aware that even in endgame zones, there can be a large gap between fresh 80s and fully geared characters.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Mithrilos.8036]

I'm glad you understand my point of view. Of course I'm not asking for a community change. That kind of things are Immuable, that is just how it is. But then, we are lurking toward combat mounts now, if Anet start adding more of those, I'm afraid that people will never even dismount and just fast clear and go next, if a faster combat mount appear in the 4th extention that is...

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[Crunchbone.7341]

  Although I understand from your first post that you are discussing all mounts instead of flying ones only, there was recently

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/111648-forbid-flying-in-expansion-unlock-later/

  I do understand what you are saying & how you are saying it, but from the perspective of me who has spent the time & resources to unlock every mount, I have to say that I feel GW2 made the best, most functional mounts of any game I have ever played. I LOVE each & every one of my mounts & now that we have them, it would feel very devastating to lose the ability to use even one.

  EOD did make the use of the mounts more situational, even creating certain tasks which can only be completed with a certain mount (raptor & springer come to mind) & as someone said above, the architecture of New Kaineng & Seitung allows ways to travel efficiently without mounts. I am fine with that.

  The raptor & springer & skimmer are relatively easy to unlock as is the glider. There have been so many new maps, HPs, Mastery Insights, and content added, that I feel it does make sense to enjoy the mounts & trains that are always available & some are very careful to run slowly to help you get waypoints & a bio break at each map :). Some groups even offer mount aquisition help.

  Everyone is different. The game has evolved & grown. I can only speak for myself, but mounts have made my time in GW2 incredibly more immersive & rewarding. At this point, if our mounts & limited flight abilities were blocked or timegated, I would walk away from Tyria with alot of good memories but without a backward glance as I did with WoW when they started their flight wars.

  Just my 2 cents, and most definitely not disrespecting your opinion 🙂

Edited April 1, 2022 by Crunchbone.7341

[Mithrilos.8036]

What I'm saying is, that mounts are okay in themselves. but the way the community is handling them, for the sake of efficiency is not.

EDIT : but I was expecting very different opinion than mine, so worry not 😛 also its good that if you are enjoying mounts that much, it mean that at least it work rightly for that part.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

On my part, I feel more like left behind, but then it is probably by choice. Yet, it feels very frustrating to engage a group of mobs with and having a random dude landing on your head deleting the mob pack instantly just to immediatly go back to its mount and leave immediatly. How do you feel ? Useless ? probably.

 

EDIT : I like to go back on those missions at Eye of the North ( not strike mission, the others ones ). 

Yet sometimes I can't even enjoy the content because the group that joined me, or I joined went so fast at clearing the mission that I barely even managed to contribute, they leave at portal immediatly after the mission is cleared. And you see that kind of thing a lot of time. Of course I'm no pointing my finger out at people, I'm just...wondering  because I feel like I've lost something that I really enjoyed in this game.

Are you saying you mount too slowly to do the same and feel that others "tryhard" because they use keybinds instead of slow clicking through the unwieldy UI?  If so, I'm sorry to say that's a "you" problem and it's easily resolved by simply binding your most commonly used mounts to keys.

[Mithrilos.8036]

2 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Are you saying you mount too slowly to do the same and feel that others "tryhard" because they use keybinds instead of slow clicking through the unwieldy UI?  If so, I'm sorry to say that's a "you" problem and it's easily resolved by simply binding your most commonly used mounts to keys.

No that is not what I'm saying. You probably misunderstood what I said, or I wasn't clear enough, which is possible.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[Gehenna.3625]

My take on it is that if they hadn't introduced mounts, many people wouldn't be here anymore because not having mounts is sooooo annoying. I remember the days where we had to walk everywhere and how long it took. 

What's changed I think is where people go to do content together, because the world has become so much bigger. World bosses, certain meta events, etc are prime examples and when there's something like event completion in a zone that's when you know people will be there.

Tyria has become way too big to stay the same. Something had to be done about moving on the map. And well, what they did with mounts in PoF was nothing short of amazing. No other game has this I think and sure, it came with some downsides as well but I think the upsides far outweigh the downsides in an ever-growing game. The amount of land that we have to cover just keeps increasing, so you'd have to come up with a good alternative for traveling. And yes, that by itself also means that people will be more spread out. 

And yeah, you might be fine with walking, but many others wouldn't be. I would've left this game for sure if it hadn't had mounts. OW would be very tedious indeed.

[Randulf.7614]

I’ve noticed map design has changed since the skyscale. Now we have height that exists for the sake of height (Shing Jea, Drizzlewood north), rather than the more organic, layered verticality designs hot brought in. I think they’ve tried to design maps around the skyscale rather than designing maps and just let people utilise the skyscale as they see fit.

I went back to PoF and core maps recently and whilst EoD is beautiful, map design feels inferior from both a gameplay point of view and how they use maps to tell distinct stories (something PoF and core excelled at).
 

Whilst I love the skyscale, I think the game has adjusted too far to accommodate it compared to other mounts

Edited April 1, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[Mithrilos.8036]

14 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

No that is not what I'm saying. You probably misunderstood what I said, or I wasn't clear enough, which is possible.

To be more clear : 

What I'm traying to say is, that there is that new dynamic that develloped in fight that I find very annoying, jumping between two group of mobs that are almost next to each other using your skyscale or Raptor feels very silly to me, coupled with the fact that it is also annoying to end up in an instance with someone that is almost trying to speedrun the instance with its flying mounts. I'm deploring this sense of urgency that people have devellopped and I'm wondering if people really takes time to enjoy or not the game. 

 

Again, I'm not boohing anyone. This is open reflexion between two era of the game.

[Mithrilos.8036]

11 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

My take on it is that if they hadn't introduced mounts, many people wouldn't be here anymore because not having mounts is sooooo annoying. I remember the days where we had to walk everywhere and how long it took. 

What's changed I think is where people go to do content together, because the world has become so much bigger. World bosses, certain meta events, etc are prime examples and when there's something like event completion in a zone that's when you know people will be there.

Tyria has become way too big to stay the same. Something had to be done about moving on the map. And well, what they did with mounts in PoF was nothing short of amazing. No other game has this I think and sure, it came with some downsides as well but I think the upsides far outweigh the downsides in an ever-growing game. The amount of land that we have to cover just keeps increasing, so you'd have to come up with a good alternative for traveling. And yes, that by itself also means that people will be more spread out. 

And yeah, you might be fine with walking, but many others wouldn't be. I would've left this game for sure if it hadn't had mounts. OW would be very tedious indeed.

Using Mounts as way of locomotion is fine by itself, but come on. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be here. When you are in a hurry and doesn't want to teleport, using your raptor or skyscale is also good, I'm pretty sure it is an enjoyable experience. But this is not the issue here that I'm talking about. 

If you think that OW is tedious without mount, then remember when there wasn't any, how people were doing ? They walked and used teleport, that was the point actually.

Mount sped up things and brought a new experience to the table, which is fine. Yet again, I'm saying there is that drawback of overspeeding content. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[Gehenna.3625]

3 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

Using Mounts as way of locomotion is fine by itself, but come on. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be here. When you are in a hurry and doesn't want to teleport, using your raptor or skyscale is also good, I'm pretty sure it is an enjoyable experience. But this is not the issue here that I'm talking about. 

Sure but the other mounts really made the game more enjoyable for me and it added content which otherwise would be impossible.

3 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

If you think that OW is tedious without mount, then remember when there wasn't any, how people were doing ? They walked and used teleport, that was the point actually.

I remember and the reason I quit playing after 6 months was because the whole game felt tedious and that was one of the reasons. I came back after HoT was out so gliding was already a lot better.

3 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

Mount sped up things and brought a new experience to the table, which is fine. Yet again, I'm saying there is that drawback of overspeeding content. 

There is a drawback, I agree with that, but for me it doesn't outweigh the many positives. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

2 hours ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

At the beginning, because there was no mounts, everyone was on foot. Important zones as well as Events zone were more lively with people just roaming around, as you could cross people bunch of folks trying to explore or joining up the event.

u are seeing the past with pink glasses. nothing changed.

The first thing i did on GW2 was world completion,  and i never seem that "bunch of ppl", just the regular newbs roaming around. and sometimes a map meta with more ppl(first time i see one was behemot).

Months ago, i returned to core tyria to complete achievments left behind(jumping puzzles, diving, and others related to exploring), then what i see? regular newbs roaming around, on foot.

That interactions of "every ppl" never existed, basically veterans concentraded blobing on map-meta, and newbs randomly roaming.

Til today sometimes when doing Ley-Line anomaly, some newbs ask whats happening when they see a blob/zerg, just like years ago.

Aside metas-events and newbs, the only thing that still maintain old maps alive is old achievments, sadly they stopped to create new side-histories. 

the problem with modern age in general is ppl think solutions start thinking on "less stuff"(minimalistic tendency), instead of "more stuff"(expansionist tendency).. if a mounts is a problem, the solution ins't less something, but more something, so the solution to keep old maps alive is more side-histories, more core-tyria achievs. more, more, more and never "less".

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Mithrilos.8036]

18 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

u are seeing the past with pink glasses. nothing changed.

The first thing i did on GW2 was world completion,  and i never seem that "bunch of ppl", just the regular newbs roaming around. and sometimes a map meta with more ppl(first time i see one was behemot).

Months ago, i returned to core tyria to complete achievments left behind(jumping puzzles, diving, and others related to exploring), then what i see? regular newbs roaming around, on foot.

That interactions of "every ppl" never existed, basically veterans concentraded blobing on map-meta, and newbs randomly roaming.

Til today sometimes when doing Ley-Line anomaly, some newbs ask whats happening when they see a blob/zerg.

I'm not really talking about the new players tho. Obviously those will get on foot. But on end game maps you will rarely see blobs of people on foot like there was before the addition of mounts.

 

"The interactions of every ppl never existed" What makes you think that ? Recently I met up someone on instanced mission and unusually started talking to me about the scenario of the mission. There is always interaction when people takes their time...and open up.

 

EDIT : I'm not wishing to delete mount, I said that already. I just wish things slow down a bit, instead of the constant rush for efficiency and farm that the game actually turned out ( it was present already alright, farm always was part of the game, I do know that. )

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036