So, is Revenant actually a Death Knight?

[Dareus.3091]

Hello. 🙂

I’ve been playing WoW for a very long time with my main being Death Knight. Logically, after switching to GW2 I’ve been trying to find a similar profession, but not just from the gameplay point of view but lore-wise as well. After all, throughout the years of playing mostly one class it grows on you in every aspect. 😄 

So, my question is as above - is Revenant actually GW2’s version of a DK?

You see the most obvious opinion is always that since Death Knights are using undead magic (and they are risen themselves), then Reaper should be the number one choice here. But after playing the spec and seeing the overall feel, it feels more like a Warlock instead of a DK. It doesn’t seem like Necromancers work particularly with the "dead", but rather channel dark magic to do... Stuff. 🙂

However, one thing about Death Knights, they walk the line between the realm of the living and the realm of the dead, similarly to what the Revenants should be doing with the Mists. But the entire lore of the Mists is confusing me right now a bit. Throughout the story I remember seeing characters yelling "I’ll send you to the Mists", which means Revenants would technically be able to enter the realm of the dead - therefore walking the line.

But when I go deep with the lore of the Mists, it seems like it is a proto-reality consisting of several different sub-realities, which would instead make Revenant to be more Mage-ish? (Doctor Strange and the Multiverse much haha)

And yes, I understand neither professions really fit the DK. Both Revenant and Necromancer seem like a cross between multiple different WoW classes, but that is fine. Just trying to tip the scales here lore-wise.  😄

Edited April 2, 2022 by Dareus.3091

[Kalavier.1097]

Few of the classes neatly fit into how other universes use something similar.

 

The mists is... kinda a catch all term to quite literally everything outside of Tyria. You have everything from alternate realities, fractals (closed loops of specific events or battlegrounds that just loop endlessly, when finished, it resets back to the start. WvW for example, is a massive scale fractal), other worlds, god realms, etc. When a person dies their soul typically goes into the mists, though often it's funneled into a specific "afterlife" kind of area. For example each of the human gods has a "god realm" which counts as this, though we've had implications of Norn, Asura, and even Charr or Sylvari specific afterlives. As well as just in general.

 

A revenant doesn't actively go into the mists back and forth, but instead taps into it. Mainly, echoes of legendary figures that communicate with the Revenant, teaching them skills and empowering them. These echoes are not the actual soul of the person. Though Revenants hear a lot of voices, which is why most are blindfolded to help reduce stimulation and allow greater focus until they have more control over it. Echoes can highjack your body, if you let them have too much power or have very little control and training. While their is no official direct way to start becoming a Revenant that we know of, the most typical start point is "Traveled in the mists for a time.", though IIRC others have been implied to start on the journey through love and intense study of history, getting them in tune with an echo? Revenants are not actually undead, but entirely living people who use echoes for power and knowledge. Really the only undead race that exists is the Awoken of Elona. In terms of "Fully sapient and can be reasoned with."

 

Necromancers in GW aren't evil, like most settings. They do work with spirits and the undead a lot, but not in a typical "Muhahaha, I have zombies and skeletons!" way of other settings. The "good" necros typically with have their minions be constructs instead of straight up using a skeleton or human. Typically that's more of the evil necromancer characters.

 

Reaper's are more melee and shout focused necromancers, which could be similar to death knights, but I honestly never got deep into the death knight lore of WoW. Revenants could be similar, and there are a lot more echoes then the gameplay allows. In EoD we learn of two that are explicitly named as such.

[Diovid.9506]

I suggest you read these:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hidden-arcana-role-playing-the-revenant/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Lore-Q-A/page/1#post6173721

 

[Wintermute.5408]

You'll notice at some point that GW2 classes aren't locked into alignments. Necros aren't really evil, while guardians aren't good.

That aside - yes. Mists are a form of afterlife here. They also reflect and mimic parts of reality, as seen in fractals, and can spawn "reflections" of historical events and people partaking in them. Revenants don't pull on actual ghosts, but on those reflections of people, and get possessed by them to channel their powers from mists.

[Fueki.4753]

Revenants most definitely have no ties to anything that could relate to Death Knights.

In fact, Revenants do not even handle Death magic.

Unlike Warlocks in WoW, who primarily use demon/Fel magic, Reaper actually uses the Death spectrum of the magical rainbow in GW2.

Necromancers used to require corpses to create Minions and Wells in GW1, so they used to use the dead.

In GW lore, Death magic is not a type of evil magic as it is in many other media.

Reaper is the closest you get to a Death Knight, even if "melee range Death magic user" is the only trait that connects them.

Or you could put your Guardian in dark-died armour and role-play that the blue particle effects are soul magic or frost magic or something.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Ehecatl.9172]

Both professions are similar to the death knight in different ways. I think overall necromancer is more analogous though.

 

Revenant: Heavy armor. A martial class. Speaks with the echoes of long dead heroes to channel their power into themselves via the Mists. Has some access to chill.

 

Necromancer: Actually summons undead minions. Uses blood magic to drain the enemy of health while bolstering its own. Has a strong association with frost magic. Inflicts curses on their enemies as they fight. Has access to ghostly powers that let them walk the line between living and dead. Drains the enemy of their life force and has soul related magic attacks. As a reaper becomes a more martial class.

 

Necromancer just has way more direct overlap.

[Fueki.4753]

6 hours ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

Speaks with the echoes of long dead heroes to channel their power into themselves via the Mists.

This isn't the complete picture though. We've seen in Season 4 that Revenants can channel the Echoes of individuals who are still active in Tyria.

This means, being dead is not a requirement to be eligible for being channelled. For all we know, Jalis might not even be dead yet and we can channel his echo.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[DarcShriek.5829]

If you want to play a death knight, play WoW.  GW2 is not WoW, it's a different game and doesn't have Death Knights.  If you want to play a cheap rip off of WoW, I'd like to suggest FFXIV or ESO.

[Ehecatl.9172]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

This isn't the complete picture though. We've seen in Season 4 that Revenants can channel the Echoes of individuals who are still active in Tyria.

This means, being dead is not a requirement to be eligible for being channelled. For all we know, Jalis might not even be dead yet and we can channel his echo.

 

This is true and really only reinforces my point. Necromancers have significantly more overlap conceptually with death knights than revenants do.

[Kalavier.1097]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

This isn't the complete picture though. We've seen in Season 4 that Revenants can channel the Echoes of individuals who are still active in Tyria.

This means, being dead is not a requirement to be eligible for being channelled. For all we know, Jalis might not even be dead yet and we can channel his echo.

 

In general, yes this is true. You can channel people still active. But it's not just any old people who leave echoes in the mists.

[Rhonzos.4169]

Dareus man that's really interesting. I actually recently finished the tactician as a DK on WoW, and did a grand Marshal as paladin before that. After rolling a revenant as my 80 boost I thought it might be similar. At first I think it was that way but as time went on I noticed there are actually quite a few differences- those being the lore and the profession design. Interesting to see someone else made like a decision similar to mine. 

 

[Gambit.9501]

If we're making WoW comparisons, Revenants are more akin to a Warrior + Warlock + Shaman sorta fusion than anything else.  The only commonality they share with DK's is being "the dark plate-wearing class".

Edited April 6, 2022 by Gambit.9501

[Rhonzos.4169]

Kalavier man cool that you are learning about  the Revenant. I was hoping for the Necromancer to be more of a dark summoner. I noticed though that even the Necromancer in Diablo III is pretty limited and basically has just "Army of the Dead" and "Summon Skeleton" as it's options. Army of the Dead functioning really just similar to like a timed ultimate button in a MOBA-
While those are traditional to what the Necromancer is- The 20 some odd utilities outside of it, like  Dark Nova, Siphon Blood and curses don't really contribute to anything greater than the former.

[Rhonzos.4169]

While those are traditional to what the Necromancer is- The 20 some odd utilities outside of it, like  Bone Spear, Dark Nova and  Siphon Blood  don't really contribute to anything greater*

[De Bourgogne.9642]

On 4/2/2022 at 10:43 AM, Dareus.3091 said:

Hello. 🙂

I’ve been playing WoW for a very long time with my main being Death Knight. Logically, after switching to GW2 I’ve been trying to find a similar profession, but not just from the gameplay point of view but lore-wise as well. After all, throughout the years of playing mostly one class it grows on you in every aspect. 😄 

So, my question is as above - is Revenant actually GW2’s version of a DK?

You see the most obvious opinion is always that since Death Knights are using undead magic (and they are risen themselves), then Reaper should be the number one choice here. But after playing the spec and seeing the overall feel, it feels more like a Warlock instead of a D It doesn’t seem like Necromancers work particularly with the "dead", but rather channel dark magic to do... Stuff. 🙂

However, one thing about Death Knights, they walk the line between the realm of the living and the realm of the dead, similarly to what the Revenants should be doing with the Mists. But the entire lore of the Mists is confusing me right now a bit. Throughout the story I remember seeing characters yelling "I’ll send you to the Mists", which means Revenants would technically be able to enter the realm of the dead - therefore walking the line.

But when I go deep with the lore of the Mists, it seems like it is a proto-reality consisting of several different sub-realities, which would instead make Revenant to be more Mage-ish? (Doctor Strange and the Multiverse much haha)

And yes, I understand neither professions really fit the DK. Both Revenant and Necromancer seem like a cross between multiple different WoW classes, but that is fine. Just trying to tip the scales here lore-wise.  😄

Reaper has more in common with DK but Rev has the armor skins more similar to what DK would have. 

[Ishmael.6740]

I wouldn't say so, no. The Revenant doesn't use death magic - They're not a necromancer. A Reaper would be closer to what a death knight is in the general sense, but also not really, since they're not undead themselves which is usually a staple on the death knight fantasy.

Edit: The mists also aren't really the "realm of the dead", it's more like an "inbetween", an aether everything is made of. Think of it like a metaphysical representation of space: Everything exists inside the mists, but the actual "mists" only exist inbetween the planes of existence which are more akin to "planets" inside this magical "space".

The realm of the dead would be one of those "planes of existence" inside the mists: The Underworld

Edited April 12, 2022 by Ishmael.6740

[Narcemus.1348]

3 hours ago, Ishmael.6740 said:

I wouldn't say so, no. The Revenant doesn't use death magic - They're not a necromancer. A Reaper would be closer to what a death knight is in the general sense, but also not really, since they're not undead themselves which is usually a staple on the death knight fantasy.

Edit: The mists also aren't really the "realm of the dead", it's more like an "inbetween", an aether everything is made of. Think of it like a metaphysical representation of space: Everything exists inside the mists, but the actual "mists" only exist inbetween the planes of existence which are more akin to "planets" inside this magical "space".

The realm of the dead would be one of those "planes of existence" inside the mists: The Underworld

While this is true, there are a few finer points. For one there are multiple realms of the dead which are not all encompassed in the Underworld. Obviously Kormir's realm is one such place, but there are also spirits who would talk about the other god realms in Guild Wars 1 as places of afterlife as well. And we do not know for sure where he other races go,the sky before the sky? The great forge? They may also exist in the Mists as well.

 

In the original lore, the Mists were defined as the place of the afterlife, even though it was also considered the place of creation. Spirits were the only ones who could get there until an evil man named Lord Ordon used magic sacrificing many people to open the many of the portals that we were able to go through.

[Ishmael.6740]

1 hour ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

And we do not know for sure where he other races go,the sky before the sky? The great forge? They may also exist in the Mists as well.

 

I was under the impression that those were realms inside the Underworld. For example Humans consider the Underworld the realm of Grenth while Norn consider it the realm of Raven. 

[Thornwolf.9721]

On 4/2/2022 at 3:43 AM, Dareus.3091 said:

Hello. 🙂

I’ve been playing WoW for a very long time with my main being Death Knight. Logically, after switching to GW2 I’ve been trying to find a similar profession, but not just from the gameplay point of view but lore-wise as well. After all, throughout the years of playing mostly one class it grows on you in every aspect. 😄 

So, my question is as above - is Revenant actually GW2’s version of a DK?

You see the most obvious opinion is always that since Death Knights are using undead magic (and they are risen themselves), then Reaper should be the number one choice here. But after playing the spec and seeing the overall feel, it feels more like a Warlock instead of a DK. It doesn’t seem like Necromancers work particularly with the "dead", but rather channel dark magic to do... Stuff. 🙂

However, one thing about Death Knights, they walk the line between the realm of the living and the realm of the dead, similarly to what the Revenants should be doing with the Mists. But the entire lore of the Mists is confusing me right now a bit. Throughout the story I remember seeing characters yelling "I’ll send you to the Mists", which means Revenants would technically be able to enter the realm of the dead - therefore walking the line.

But when I go deep with the lore of the Mists, it seems like it is a proto-reality consisting of several different sub-realities, which would instead make Revenant to be more Mage-ish? (Doctor Strange and the Multiverse much haha)

And yes, I understand neither professions really fit the DK. Both Revenant and Necromancer seem like a cross between multiple different WoW classes, but that is fine. Just trying to tip the scales here lore-wise.  😄

It's more like a demon hunter.

 

Spoiler

In End of dragons we learn through Mai trin that the mists "Infects" people  kind of like the fel does. It augments and changes you; Those who you use the power of and channel are living through you. So you're not fully you and not fully them.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

On 4/2/2022 at 10:43 AM, Dareus.3091 said:

So, is Revenant actually a Death Knight?

No.

1 hour ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

It's more like a demon hunter.

No, Revenant is not a demon hunter, either. They're simply a warrior who has wandered the Mists and connected to dead heroes (or echoes thereof) whose power they now channel in combat.

  

5 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

And we do not know for sure where the other races go, the sky before the sky? The great forge? They may also exist in the Mists as well.

We have seen examples of this, so we do know that other races are also present in the Mists (see Eir, a norn, and Snaff, an asura).

ArenaNet hasn't really explained yet within the game (GW2) how the Mists and the Underworld connect, but by deduction we can assume that the Underworld is just one of many realms within the Mists.
 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Narcemus.1348]

4 hours ago, Ishmael.6740 said:

 

I was under the impression that those were realms inside the Underworld. For example Humans consider the Underworld the realm of Grenth while Norn consider it the realm of Raven. 

It is possible, but it is also possible they are unrelated. We do know that the Fissure of Woe is separate from the Underworld and that some spirits go there, so it is likely spirits go many places throughout the Mists. This seems clear in Lord Ordon's tale.

[Telgum.6071]

I'm sure this has been already written here, but Revenant is far from a "Death Knight". Revenants are foes who draw their strenght from the Mists (some form of a cluster of different worlds and realms) and from legends of special importance.

If you are looking for a dark-looking warrior who also uses dark magic and a greatsword, try the Reaper elite specialization of the Necromancer.

[Thornwolf.9721]

3 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

No.

No, Revenant is not a demon hunter, either. They're simply a warrior who has wandered the Mists and connected to dead heroes (or echoes thereof) whose power they now channel in combat.
 

 Yes They are, not exactly a demon hunter 1 to 1. What Im saying is they are infected with the mists as much as a demon hunter is with the fel; The mists alter them. Change them. As again seen with mai-trin. Those we channel are existing again through us on tyria; They are sentient and see what we see. In the cinematic where 

Spoiler

Mai trin dies, her eyes change to scarlets. Scarlet was again going to take control which means that this can happen at anytime; So say you're channeling shrio... well its both of your consciousness's in unison. Which is why we can speak to him directly.

They go on to explain this in the end of dragons story bit with mai-trin that she was infected while in the mists and forced to become a revenant; So its not only taught but it can also just "happen". Much like a demon hunter can happen through use of fel or a warlock in WoW; You can learn it through training. Or be infected and changed and then have to go through more rigorous training 

So in reality we're vessels for those who are within the mists.

 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

On 4/2/2022 at 1:43 AM, Dareus.3091 said:

Hello. 🙂

I’ve been playing WoW for a very long time with my main being Death Knight. Logically, after switching to GW2 I’ve been trying to find a similar profession, but not just from the gameplay point of view but lore-wise as well. After all, throughout the years of playing mostly one class it grows on you in every aspect. 😄 

So, my question is as above - is Revenant actually GW2’s version of a DK?

You see the most obvious opinion is always that since Death Knights are using undead magic (and they are risen themselves), then Reaper should be the number one choice here. But after playing the spec and seeing the overall feel, it feels more like a Warlock instead of a DK. It doesn’t seem like Necromancers work particularly with the "dead", but rather channel dark magic to do... Stuff. 🙂

However, one thing about Death Knights, they walk the line between the realm of the living and the realm of the dead, similarly to what the Revenants should be doing with the Mists. But the entire lore of the Mists is confusing me right now a bit. Throughout the story I remember seeing characters yelling "I’ll send you to the Mists", which means Revenants would technically be able to enter the realm of the dead - therefore walking the line.

But when I go deep with the lore of the Mists, it seems like it is a proto-reality consisting of several different sub-realities, which would instead make Revenant to be more Mage-ish? (Doctor Strange and the Multiverse much haha)

And yes, I understand neither professions really fit the DK. Both Revenant and Necromancer seem like a cross between multiple different WoW classes, but that is fine. Just trying to tip the scales here lore-wise.  😄

It's most like some combination of Demon Hunter + Death Knight + Shadow Priest from WoW with some gameplay elements of all of those as well.  However, these don't neatly fit into Rev as the GW2 lore is a bit different. 

Perhaps more important are its GW1 comparisons; it's essentially the new Dervish + Ritualist + Assassin, though other classes do ofc have elements of those as well. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

I played warcraft 3, theres no resemblance, the Death Knigth of Warcraft is more like a OverPowered, "heavy" Gw2 necromancer.

Ironically its seems many games doesnt have a "heavy magician". When i played neverwinter, at time theres was a expansion where introduced the "Warlock", a "heavy" like demon magician. Gw2 the same, Revenant is just our 'heavy magician', not necessary linked to the dead, but to echoes of the mists, so its more close to some sort of spirituliast..

if want RP a Death Knight, u should play the necromancer specialization Reaper, its use a GreatSword. Also its have the Spectral traitlines, that embodies "phantasmagoric" habilities.

Edited April 18, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416