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Tier 3 Jade Bot upgrades - announced versus wiki


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According to the game updates the upgrades for tier 3 jade bot modules are available from Myung-Hee but her wiki page only lists four of the upgrades as available from her.  I am interested in the Medical Datacell for the Rescue Protocol Recharge 3 module which isn't listed on the wiki page.  Does anyone know if the complete set of upgrade items is available from Myung-Hee or just the four that are listed on her wiki page?  I don't want to submit the four jade statuettes only to find that the item I want isn't available.  Thanks in advance!

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If you look at the items available, Myung-Hee sells the items that drops from open world while Zazzl sells the items that drop from strikes.

What the patch did was simply making the items purchasable from their respective vendors rather than having to rely solely on RNG drops.

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9 minutes ago, Anjo.3170 said:

Zazzl sells the Medical Datacell in Arborstone next to the strike portal.  You still have to do strikes because it costs 250 green prophet shards and I think the only way to get those are the EOD strikes. 

250 Green Prophet, it is super super expense. maybe wait for drop by doing strikes if someday has lucky.

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Thank you for the clarification, that resolves the seeming contradiction.

So, we have to do 28 strike missions (non-harvest-temple) in order to purchase the Medical Datacell.  Giving up the more than 250 gold that we could make by buying antique summoning stones with the shards.

They really really want us to do strike missions don't they?  I've done two EOD strike missions, doing one every day for almost a month just doesn't seem reasonable.  And rescue protocol doesn't even work in strikes, how does that make sense?

ArenaNet: please consider having all eight items available from both vendors so they can be bought with either currency.

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1 hour ago, blp.3489 said:

So, we have to do 28 strike missions (non-harvest-temple) in order to purchase the Medical Datacell.  Giving up the more than 250 gold that we could make by buying antique summoning stones with the shards.

There's probably no built in guarantee of the Medical Datacell to drop after X attempts, unlike the Gift of Aurene which is a guaranteed drop after one thousand unsuccessful Dragonfall coffers. So the vendor is giving optimistic but unlucky players a chance to access a drop even if it never ever ever shows up.

There's not a lot of drop rate data for the Medical Datacell so far. But let's assume they want players to have a 50/50 shot at the drop, and if it doesn't, the player can buy it instead. So if the intended number of strike missions to reach that 50% is 28, because it takes roughly 28 strikes to accumulate the green shards to buy the Datacell outright, and I'm relying on crusty old stats knowledge here, then the Datacell has a roughly 2.5% chance of dropping from each strike mission (independent event).

Good luck!

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Kind of bouncing off this thread with related idea -if we can get those upgrades from the vendor, for example Medical Datacell for 250 green shard, then also let us trade in those upgrades -when we get them from drop-  to the same npcs for lower value, like 10-50 shards?

Edited by Sobx.1758
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5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Kind of bouncing off this thread with related idea -if we can get those upgrades from the vendor, for example Medical Datacell for 250 green shard, then also let us trade in those upgrades -when we get them from drop-  to the same npcs for lower value, like 10-50 shards?

Or, just make them tradable so that people who like doing strikes can do them and sell the upgrades they don't need, and people who don't like strikes can buy them instead.  But I would still prefer to buy them from the other vendor with the other currency.

If it's not bad enough that you have to do 28 strike missions to guarantee you get the upgrade item, you either have to repeat the process for your other characters or go through the bank/shared inventory shuffling process, including going to a jade bot workbench, each time you play a different character.  That is just too too unreasonable for people who don't enjoy strikes.  And again, you can't use the modules in strike missions so there is really no justification whatsoever to making people do a ton of strikes to get them.

Knowing how many people were so vocal about hating having to do a single strike to get their turtle I don't know how someone thought it would be reasonable to make people do 28 strikes to get the upgrade.  And that's just to get one of the four module upgrades that require doing strikes.  I would really love to hear an explanation.

Edited by blp.3489
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37 minutes ago, blp.3489 said:

Or, just make them tradable so that people who like doing strikes can do them and sell the upgrades they don't need, and people who don't like strikes can buy them instead.  But I would still prefer to buy them from the other vendor with the other currency.

If it's not bad enough that you have to do 28 strike missions to guarantee you get the upgrade item, you either have to repeat the process for your other characters or go through the bank/shared inventory shuffling process, including going to a jade bot workbench, each time you play a different character.  That is just too too unreasonable for people who don't enjoy strikes.  And again, you can't use the modules in strike missions so there is really no justification whatsoever to making people do a ton of strikes to get them.

Knowing how many people were so vocal about hating having to do a single strike to get their turtle I don't know how someone thought it would be reasonable to make people do 28 strikes to get the upgrade.  And that's just to get one of the four module upgrades that require doing strikes.  I would really love to hear an explanation.

Sorry, but I'm more of a "complete the content to get the reward" guy, so I doubt we'll be on the same page here 😛 

You don't really have to, since it's not needed to compelte anything in the game, right? These are just some additional perks/improvements. The dirrence between 30% and 40% also doesn't seem somehow extreme.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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13 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Sorry, but I'm more of a "complete the content to get the reward" guy, so I doubt we'll be on the same page here 😛 

You don't really have to, since it's not needed to compelte anything in the game, right? These are just some additional perks/improvements. The dirrence between 30% and 40% also doesn't seem somehow extreme.

Even if I agree with "complete the content to get the reward" I think there is still room to protest the choice of, and number of repetitions of, content that has been chosen.  Since you can't use the upgrades in strikes it doesn't make sense to me to tie the upgrades to doing strike missions, and even less to make you do ridiculous numbers of strike missions, 112 strike missions to get the four upgrades for one character, or 224 if say you have two characters you play a lot and don't want to have to go to a jade bot workstation every time you want to switch characters.  I wouldn't object if you had to do a couple of strikes plus a lot of other content to get the upgrades so that people would try strikes and hopefully like them, but making people who don't like strikes to do more than a hundred of them makes no sense to me.  I suspect it wasn't a well thought out choice and hope it will be changed.

And yes, it's true that no one NEEDS these upgrades to do content, but that doesn't explain why Anet would introduce these upgrades and then restrict them to players that do hundreds of strike missions, again in the context that you can't use these upgrades in strike missions so you are doing hundreds of strikes in order to use the upgrades in non-strike content.  This is totally arbitrary and flies in the face of the "do the content that you enjoy" philosophy.  You need to play a lot of content to get the 2500 imperial favors to buy upgrades at the other vendor so the effect of restricting these upgrades to the strikes based vendor is to force players who want the upgrades to play strikes instead of their preferred content.  I don't object to making players do a lot of work to get the reward but I question the wisdom of making players play a lot of a particular content that they may not enjoy to get an upgrade that is irrelevant to the content you are forcing them to play.

These upgrades DO give you advantages so there is an analogy to adding higher stats on legendary weapons, you still wouldn't NEED legendary weapons to complete content but the extra stats would still be desirable and give an advantage to players that had them.  Adding higher stats to legendary weapons would be a bad idea and this is a bad idea.  It also just so obviously over the top in the number of missions you need to do.  I don't quite understand why anyone would feel the need to post replies in defense of the status quo without giving a reason why they think the status quo makes sense.

I am absolutely not going to rage-quit the game over this, but I do hope someone at Anet will take a minute to reflect on whether these requirements make sense, and whether offering all the upgrades at the non-strikes vendor wouldn't be better for everyone.  I still wouldn't approve but at the very least reduce the price from the currently ridiculous 250 shards to a number that requires people to do a few strikes instead of hundreds of strikes.

 

P.S. I also don't think that people who advocate that we should be ready to play particular builds, which typically involve particular professions and therefore often changing characters from one's preferred main character, in order to properly contribute in events like the DE meta should be supporting the decision to make people do hundreds of strikes in order to get the upgrades for multiple characters.

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20 minutes ago, blp.3489 said:

These upgrades DO give you advantages so there is an analogy to adding higher stats on legendary weapons, you still wouldn't NEED legendary weapons to complete content but the extra stats would still be desirable and give an advantage to players that had them

This would be true if there were some kind of skiff races available (or a competition in getting rezzed by your jade bot 😄 ) and then the one without the tier 3 module just has an inherent disadvantage that they can't get around without unlocking it. As it goes, these upgrades are just small additions that don't change much competetively or even overally performance-wise. As already said in two posts above, you can easly just use tier 2 upgrades and barely see any difference. Want -again, a little- more? Play the game and get the rewards for completing more of the content.

 

20 minutes ago, blp.3489 said:

P.S. I also don't think that people who advocate that we should be ready to play particular builds, which typically involve particular professions and therefore often changing characters from one's preferred main character, in order to properly contribute in events like the DE meta should be supporting the decision to make people do hundreds of strikes in order to get the upgrades for multiple characters.

I don't know what you're talking about right now. You don't need to swap between characters to participate in those events, trying to pretend you do is either a misinformed claim or intentionally dishonest. Not only that, but tier 3 jade bot upgrades have nothing to do with those events anyways.

tr;dr: want quick and easy? Use tier 2 -you'll barely see a difference there.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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Actually, I just realized that only two of the upgrades come from the strikes vendor, the imperial favors vendor has four, so all my numbers are off.  But the strike associated upgrades are the glide booster and the rescue protocol, the one's of most interest to me. Sorry, I'm to lazy too go back and edit them.

 

And actually rather than my legendary with extra stats analogy, imagine if you had to do group content in order to get ascended gear.  How many people would be satisfied with "you can do all the content in exotic gear so there's no problem here" or "do the content to get the reward"?  The magnitude of the consequences are obviously greater but the same logic applies.

Edited by blp.3489
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9 minutes ago, blp.3489 said:

Actually, I just realized that only two of the upgrades come from the strikes vendor, the imperial favors vendor has four, so all my numbers are off.  But the strike associated upgrades are the glide booster and the rescue protocol, the one's of most interest to me. Sorry, I'm to lazy too go back and edit them.

 

And actually rather than my legendary with extra stats analogy, imagine if you had to do group content in order to get ascended gear.  How many people would be satisfied with "you can do all the content in exotic gear so there's no problem here" or "do the content to get the reward"? 

Ah, so now you conveniently won't address anything I wrote. And on top of that you'll come up with another clearly irrelevant imaginery scenario, where I can just repeat what I wrote above anyways 😐

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The magnitude of the consequences are obviously greater but the same logic applies.

See... You even understand this is not nearly the same, but you'll try to stretch whatever you can in order to pretend otherwise.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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Yes, the upgrades are not essential.

I can't provide quickness and alacrity while playing my tempest.

I'm not sure how I could have been clearer than "obviously greater".

You support the arbitrary tying of particular rewards to particular types of content that some people don't enjoy.  I don't. Fine.

Did you have any other points I deviously avoided?

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12 minutes ago, blp.3489 said:

Yes, the upgrades are not essential.

Exactly, not even close and even moreso in the context you're trying to use here as an argument.

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I can't provide quickness and alacrity while playing my tempest.

You also don't need to. And even if you wanted to switch characters to specific professions... it still has nothing to do with t3 -or any other- jade bot upgrades. 🙄

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I'm not sure how I could have been clearer than "obviously greater".

No worries, it was clear enough. As I said: you clearly understand your made up comparisons don't apply here. That is exactly the point.

12 minutes ago, blp.3489 said:

Did you have any other points I deviously avoided?

It's mainly about you not trying to dodge the fact these upgrades are mostly irrelevant for the purposes and comparisons you bring up in your posts now. If you understand it, then that's pretty much all. It seems you "just want to max out whatever it is NOW or it's bad and you can't play the game/events/classes/builds you want" -but you can, these upgrades have nothing to do with it. If you "want it now!" on every characer, just use tier 2.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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This all circles back around to the intent of these scarce account bound drops from metas and strikes. Yes, the last 10% of mount regen or whatever is a tiny return on time or opportunity cost of buying the item. Yes, it's an artificial hurdle, like a lot of masteries. Probably healthier to think of tier 3 upgrade tokens as a completely optional thing that might show up while collecting for elite spec weapons, for a later legendary, or just doing the meta because it popped up on the map.

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22 hours ago, Rumpus.1234 said:

There's not a lot of drop rate data for the Medical Datacell so far. But let's assume they want players to have a 50/50 shot at the drop, and if it doesn't, the player can buy it instead. So if the intended number of strike missions to reach that 50% is 28, because it takes roughly 28 strikes to accumulate the green shards to buy the Datacell outright, and I'm relying on crusty old stats knowledge here, then the Datacell has a roughly 2.5% chance of dropping from each strike mission (independent event).

Unfortunately things are actually more complicated ... it is an average of 29 strikes but those 29 needs to be split across multiple weeks because there is a weekly cap on green shards. The item drops from the coffers and you should be able to get up to 11 a week

15 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

Is the tier 2 upgrade not good enough for the application you have in mind?

Level 3 shaves off another 33 seconds from the 10minute starting recharge time.

 

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Have you accounted for daily strike mission achievement chests (5 shards) and the weekly cantha strike achievement (25 shards). You can get additional 60 shards per week that are on top of the 100 weekly cap from mission completions alone.

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