Untamed is not that bad, just lack of some damage output fix

[lunaticdawn.1860]

I'm new to Ranger class, although I have a ranger character but he just park in Dry Top mining Quartz Crystal.  One day I watched some random Untamed youtube videos and the ambush skill looks fun, also I wanna get rid of the Level 80 boost on my shared inventory, so I decided to create a new character and experience Untamed myself.   

Character created, LV80 boost consumed, joined HP trains, I have a LV80 Untamed with full Celestial gears, adventure awaits!

Firstly I test by doing EoD metas (except DE), HAZZAH!  My survivability is so good I barely go to downed state, the animation of ambush skill feels like I'm doing special move busting everyone faces, which is nice but ambush skill better have a timer on somewhere.  My CC is great with the Rock Deer pet and warhorn, I'm busy pressing every available skills, I ambush every 15-20 sec, I feel satisfy, like a day of hard work.

Later I test on strike mission.  I love doing strike.  I played all IBS and EoD strike with Untamed and feel good, a little bit lacking damage power but still feeling good, however some strike group ask me "Can you switch to Soul Beast?  Untamed is just ranger with only 2 traits" and my ranger unlocked Untamed only, its too awkward so I quit the group,  go collect HP unlock and test out Soul Beast....

Soul Beast rulez dafaq is Untamed doing, Soul Beast just casually out damage Untamed 3k dps, I got why people wants me to play Soul Beast and jokes about Untamed.  Later I found out that the whole Untamed trait is just to make sure you stay alive but not much about killing opponent, I think thats the issue, or maybe Untamed is focus on holding position like pvp bunker build so it needs so much sustain I dont know I'm not pvp expert.

I still enjoy Untamed in pve, everything are satisfy just not enough damage to keep up with others, I wish there will be some damage buff in the coming future, maybe lower the ambush cooldown.

[Beddo.1907]

Few things:

-You are not beating Soulbeast with just DPS buff.

-Just adding raw damage is a lazy way of fixing the spec.

-Making a 2nd pure DPS spec is really not helping the state of ranger as a whole.

 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

As was mentioned above, a dps buff alone will not fix untamed and is incredibly lazy.

 

They mentioned they want us to work with out pets, passing a supposedly amazing power between each other- however, both in PvE and PvP it does very little. At best, it is a personal, awkwardly moving projectile bubble when your pet unleashes, and it comes at the cost of losing 25% damage.

 

Untamed doesn't provide enough to make worth using- look at something else they made that was originally considered bad in EoD, the Catalyst. That just needed numbers increases- to be made more forgiving, to put out more. When they changed those, the DPS AND boon support builds began to shine big time- I wouldn't be surprised if catalyst starts to get into the big time mainstream as people figure out better and better ways to make it work, given how many boons it can provide and the fact that it gives them partially on the normal DPS build.

 

Untamed, on the other hand, at most provides self barrier and damage. No synergy with any other traitlines, pet skills don't cool down with fervent force, pet damage isn't really improved, pet control makes the pet get a lobotomy and is unable to function on its own. The things Untamed provides are both 1. Given by and 2. Done much better (and with more) by Soulbeast, druid, or even core (as you have more options with improving other traits, such as a core spirits build with pet damage increases. Is this a good idea for high end PvE, running an otherwise mediocre core build? No. But it's better than untamed).

[Mell.4873]

PvE it is pretty bad on Untamed outside of maybe solo open world content.

Soulbeast though is pretty awkward to use when you get CC'ed during a sic em rotation so in that respect Untamed has an the advantage of having slightly lower cooldowns with fervent force.

The main problem is just the weird mix mash of traits which others have pointed out. There needs to be some thing untamed does to increase its dps. Maybe the Spores or unleashed trigger a damage buff rather than just siphon health.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Mell.4873

[lunaticdawn.1860]

You guys are right, forgot that Soul Beast already a dps espec, Untamed bring nothing to group and lack of dps, Untamed just a selfish survivalist in the wild... dev should give Untamed some meanings.

[evil infantry.7214]

yesterday i joined DE meta...and i was the only untamed there... was so weird experience for me! someone whispers me and tells me that the meta boss was  a hard dps check and tells me to change it!! i ignored him  of course..but that was not cool 😞 !As a main ranger it hurts to be called the "unplayed" spec....

[Teratus.2859]

Still working on mine, though i'm not focusing on the usual uber DPS or nothing nonsense.

I'm going with a theme build, Untamed being a spec based around Beastmastery and Nature Magic which also happen to be 2 other ranger traitlines so makes sense to use an Untamed with those traitlines.

Can't speak for damage output or survivability until i've made it and played around with it but I can say that boon output is looking decent on it, at least for a solo player thanks to pet synergy.
Warhorn 5 + Mighty Roar then Heal as One.. is all I need to stack 25 might, fury and  swiftness for around 20 seconds on myself and my pet +Regen and I'll also get 5 seconds of quickness or stability if WH5 stuns the enemy depending on unleashed which will be pretty great to open combat with my greatsword which will also give me another 5 seconds quickness/stability on GS5 stun as well.

Im planning on using a mix of Diviner and Dragon stats with Runes of the Ranger and Sigils of Force and Accuracy.
Turtle and Jungle Stalker as pets for Mighty Roar and Hunker Down which gives a ton of protection.
Swapping between ranged and melee combat playstyle with player being unleashed at range and turtle being unleashed when i'm in melee with GS.
Probably won't be the hardest hitting build but it looks like a lot of fun to play to me.

So i'm going to make it and use it and ignore all the naysayers because I don't care what they think.
I play games to have fun not to do copious amounts of math and calculations so I can make the biggest numbers appear and feel superior to everyone else 😛 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Teratus.2859

[InsaneQR.7412]

I think the lack of damage is the least issue for the spec in general. It only concernes instanced PvE.

The spec as a whole has some good, some bad and some ugly. The ability to steer your pet is very nice and should be a core ranger feature IMO, the cantrips are decent although nothing mindblowing, and the ambushes are a really nice touch givin to the spec.

The bad is that your pet needs at least one skill we should be able to put on auto cast, as some skills are just nothing more than a spammable damage skill. The cantrips do provide some nice utility but are lackluster in tools a bruiser would need, like high defensive buff uptime, good amounts of barrier and tools to provide a 1 vs many functionality. The ambushes are very clunky to use and need streamlining.

The ugly: the spec is hella clunky to use while giving no reward doing so. We have 2 states, 2 pets and 2 weapons, all of which do not flow well into eachother nor provide a big enough benefit to be worthwhile.

 

[KeoLegend.5132]

Thing is, Druid will be a better support and Soulbeast will be a better DPS. Untamed is on a hard spot rn

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

3 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said:

Thing is, Druid will be a better support and Soulbeast will be a better DPS. Untamed is on a hard spot rn

See, druid is a heal support. Untamed could be a boon DPS support, like alacrigade or boon catalyst.

 

However druid might get hit pretty hard if spirits get ganked June 28th (the next major pve balance patch).

[Cytoplasma.8216]

10 hours ago, evil infantry.7214 said:

yesterday i joined DE meta...and i was the only untamed there... was so weird experience for me! someone whispers me and tells me that the meta boss was  a hard dps check and tells me to change it!! i ignored him  of course..but that was not cool 😞 !As a main ranger it hurts to be called the "unplayed" spec....

Unfornately i had the same situstions on my Ranger a lots of time. 

Shame.... 

Thank you Arena 😭

[Mell.4873]

13 hours ago, evil infantry.7214 said:

yesterday i joined DE meta...and i was the only untamed there... was so weird experience for me! someone whispers me and tells me that the meta boss was  a hard dps check and tells me to change it!! i ignored him  of course..but that was not cool 😞 !As a main ranger it hurts to be called the "unplayed" spec....

That sucks, you can definitely do decent dps with untamed it just has a very low ceiling, unlike Soulbeast which has a really high damage ceiling but an unrealistic rotation.

Honestly for power I just run longbow/longbow and spam barrage every 10 seconds. I can pull the same numbers as with soulbeast it just lacks burst.

[Draeyon.4392]

Too many class controls to micromanage.Lack of direction on espec role.Also honestly, just bad design.

Make pet a living shade in one of the forms that is either unlikable or can cast pet shade skills when defeated. (Prefer the first)

Put a heavy emphasis on either boon support, cc or boon strip with added damage. Would honestly want all hammer skills to boon rip at least 1 boon (except AA). Either that or make untamed the 'CC King' or all specs in the game.

Hammer skills should not share CDs if you want that duality aspect of hammer. Just bad.

And all utilities need to be looked at. I dont think I would slot in any of them as they currently stand.

Finally, I dislike the name Untamed, too restrictive and puts an emphasis on the pet actually doing something with its AI.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Draeyon.4392

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

4 minutes ago, Draeyon.4392 said:

Too many class controls to micromanage.Lack of direction on espec role.Also honestly, just bad design.

This. Untamed is complicated for the sake of being complicated, whereas there's already fine areas of nuance present.

 

6 minutes ago, Draeyon.4392 said:

And all utilities need to be looked at. I dont think I would slot in any of them as they currently stand.

Also this.

[Swagger.1459]

7 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

See, druid is a heal support. Untamed could be a boon DPS support, like alacrigade or boon catalyst.

 

However druid might get hit pretty hard if spirits get ganked June 28th (the next major pve balance patch).

IDK, Soulbeast has Stance sharing, so it would be a bit redundant to make Untamed a boon support as well. 
 

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

18 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

IDK, Soulbeast has Stance sharing, so it would be a bit redundant to make Untamed a boon support as well. 
 

I was contemplating on mentioning this. Ranger really requires some unique niche to stand out, and it's honestly difficult to find one after stance share dps soulbeast and mechanist and specter.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

21 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

IDK, Soulbeast has Stance sharing, so it would be a bit redundant to make Untamed a boon support as well. 
 

The only stances worth sharing are vulture stance (for condi) or one wolf pack (for anything). It's not even boons, it'd be far from redundant.

[Swagger.1459]

On 4/9/2022 at 7:15 PM, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

The only stances worth sharing are vulture stance (for condi) or one wolf pack (for anything). It's not even boons, it'd be far from redundant.

Ok, well, if you feel that way, then make suggestions to improve the boon aspects of Soulbeast because that’s how Stances were designed. We don’t need yet another boon support out of Untamed while already offering it on Soulbeast. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

23 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Ok, well, if you feel that way, then make suggestions to improve the boon aspects of Soulbeast because that’s how Stances were designed. We don’t need yet another boon support out of Untamed while already offering it on Soulbeast. 

Stances aren't boon sharing. The might generates on the person with vulture stance (which, in any coherent group, might should be covered), OWP shares no boons, moa stance has niche use at best, and why would you ever take griffon stance?

 

Soulbeast was meant to be a burst oriented dps, not a support.

[Evenaardez.7913]

No just on a fundamental and design level, untamed is super bad.

[Swagger.1459]

50 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Stances aren't boon sharing. The might generates on the person with vulture stance (which, in any coherent group, might should be covered), OWP shares no boons, moa stance has niche use at best, and why would you ever take griffon stance?

 

Soulbeast was meant to be a burst oriented dps, not a support.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leader_of_the_Pack

 

 

Soulbeast was meant to be a hybrid condition/power build, that also offered daggers, and the ability to share Stance boons. 
 

Untamed wasn’t designed a boon support spec. Gotta move on from that. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

2 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leader_of_the_Pack

 

 

Soulbeast was meant to be a hybrid condition/power build, that also offered daggers, and the ability to share Stance boons. 
 

Untamed wasn’t designed a boon support spec. Gotta move on from that. 

If soulbeast was a boon spec, then anything could really pass as one.

[Swagger.1459]

1 hour ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

If soulbeast was a boon spec, then anything could really pass as one.

Ok, well, the devs coded in the ability to share boons from stances on Soulbeast, so ask for better boons on it if you’re not happy. Right? Or not good enough, so we need the devs to recode every utility skill on Untamed to make it another boon sharing spec?
 

Should they also make Untamed a heal support too? Maybe Untamed could be DPS/Boon Support/Heal Support as a total package… 
 

 

[anduriell.6280]

I don’t understand what all this crying is trying to accomplish now, the moment to give feedback was during the betas….

Now seems a little bit redundant  to ask for anything, I mean if they would to completely overhaul unplayed that would somehow hint  they didn’t know what they were doing on the first place,  right?

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

3 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Ok, well, the devs coded in the ability to share boons from stances on Soulbeast, so ask for better boons on it if you’re not happy. Right? Or not good enough, so we need the devs to recode every utility skill on Untamed to make it another boon sharing spec?
 

Should they also make Untamed a heal support too? Maybe Untamed could be DPS/Boon Support/Heal Support as a total package… 
 

 

No, I'm just saying- a full on dps boon support is something ranger does not have.

 

Soulbeast does not provide enough boons to be considered a boon support. Yes, it can share stances. Yes, it can do damage. That doesn't make it a boon support.

 

Untamed could be the same thing as catalyst but on ranger in terms of functionality and it'd be fine- decent DPS, decent boons when in full zerker, or it could bring a mix of diviners (or even full div) and lose out on DPS but still provide good rare boons.