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We just not going to talk about how the last patch made willbender a god?


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7 minutes ago, fluxGER.8416 said:

So what exactly about revenant or more specific herald, is so much better then willbender ? Seriously, on willy I deal twice as much damage as on my herald. Im curious 

 

Not being so one dimensional. You got perfect balance between offense and defense, I'd argue that Shiro alone is 10 times better than all Virtues together. On top of that you got reliable CC both on Herald and Staff, good boon package and certainly one of the best heals in the game when used right. Won't even mention you can ninja people with Quickness jumps due to Phase Traversal while they ain't even expecting you.

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36 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

 

Not being so one dimensional. You got perfect balance between offense and defense, I'd argue that Shiro alone is 10 times better than all Virtues together. On top of that you got reliable CC both on Herald and Staff, good boon package and certainly one of the best heals in the game when used right. Won't even mention you can ninja people with Quickness jumps due to Phase Traversal while they ain't even expecting you.

I mean, Willbender as all his evades, blinds and can also "traversal" on an enemy without them even see em comming. It even has more heals and more condi cleanse then herald ?

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56 minutes ago, fluxGER.8416 said:

I mean, Willbender as all his evades, blinds and can also "traversal" on an enemy without them even see em comming. It even has more heals and more condi cleanse then herald ?

The key difference is that Willbender cannot evade and pressure simultaneously, it must do one or the other. It can traverse, but doesn't gain unblockable+quickness when doing so. It doesn't have more heals, that's just wrong, infuse-light is far more beneficial. The only thing you can say that WB has over shiro-herald is that it has better cleansing, but since condi builds aren't particularly prevelant, that's not a massive benefit.

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22 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The only reason guard stays "OP" is because of renewed focus. On willy they get 4x mobility skills back, and 3x defensive skills. Try playing without RF and you are far worse than rev.

Try playing herald withouth shiro ? Its in their kit and thats all that matters not "what if it wasnt there" . It is.

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16 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Malyx condi rev was meta for like a year. RF has been on just about every guard build ever.

Nerfing RF would instantly make every single guard build not viable anymore. Guards are playing it because it is mandatory to survive and to not get instantly farmed - not because it is broken. Why do you think Willbender was trash tier a few weeks ago and had it‘s virtue cooldowns reduced despite already running RF? This is a complete nonsense thread and same with a few comments considering Willbender won‘t see actual competitive play in MAT‘s while Herald does and still will. Glad most in here agree that this has to be an actual joke

Edited by GuriGashi.5617
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Say you can't anticipate teleports without saying you can't anticipate teleports.

It's just core guard, but instead of blocks it has one 4 second period of undownable if traited and all engage skills, half of which have telegraphs.

Deal with it like you deal with warrior. 

 

26 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Finally. Ive been waiting for them to bend my will. Hnnng daddy.

Quoting this without context or explanation.

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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21 minutes ago, GuriGashi.5617 said:

Nerfing RF would instantly make every single guard build not viable anymore. Guards are playing it because it is mandatory to survive and to not get instantly farmed - not because it is broken. Why do you think Willbender was trash tier a few weeks ago and had it‘s virtue cooldowns reduced despite already running RF? This is a complete nonsense thread and same with a few comments considering Willbender won‘t see actual competitive play in MAT‘s while Herald does and still will. Glad most in here agree that this has to be an actual joke

That was my entire point, its pretty much mandatory on every guard build and I already said that without RF willy is much worse than rev.

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1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Malyx condi rev was meta for like a year. RF has been on just about every guard build ever.

Which other elite skill would you bring on guard? The one that gives you some seconds of quickness or the one that heals 200HP every 3 seconds?

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I would say while WB has better condition-clears and stability, it's sticking power and reliable dmg are worse than herald.

 

Compare the two:

 

Herald: Unblockables, Super-speed, quickness, more vitality, Solid forms of both Soft and Hard-cc, incredible sticking power with easier-to-land front-loaded damage.

 

Willbender:  Group-stability and condition clear.  Almost no soft-cc and no hard-cc, no quickness, no unblockables, no super-speed, less health.  It can do more damage than herald but it's much harder to land by comparison without super-speed, quickness or the cc's(soft and hard) necessary to stick.  Also, the animations and cast-times for damage are much longer.

 

Compare Death Strike to Executioner's Calling:  One is an instant port with fury to high damage with a 1/2 cast-time.  Executioner's is pure melee with it taking 1 1/2 seconds to land ALL the hits since it's a 2-part attack.

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1 hour ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Which other elite skill would you bring on guard? The one that gives you some seconds of quickness or the one that heals 200HP every 3 seconds?

This is the point im making. RF gives like 10x the value as the shout or signet. Its an insanely good elite, put it on any other class and you will see what I mean. Imagine ele, necro, engi with an invuln that resets attunements, shroud skills, or your toolbelt.

RF is one of the main reasons why FB tomes were nerfed so hard, I can definitely see the same thing happening to willy.

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I tried the standard radiance virtues willy valk build, the damage is nuts, but sustain is garbage, lot of times you have to waste all your mobility skills just to survive instead of using them aggressively for kills, leaving you without cooldowns.

Maybe running meditation will be the way as usual to have more survivability.

The buffs definitely felt good, but I don't think it's better than shiro herald in the current meta.

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18 hours ago, fluxGER.8416 said:

I mean, Willbender as all his evades, blinds and can also "traversal" on an enemy without them even see em comming. It even has more heals and more condi cleanse then herald ?

The only thing Willbender is better at, is cleansing which isn't much revelant in power meta, especially when you got slave Guardian to cleanse you around. If you feel Willbender does more damage, just because some numbers look higher, land proper damage combo as Herald with Quickness granted by Traversal or Legend swap as it's extremly bursty. However my main issue with Willbender is Willbender is completly one dimensional, meaning you've to completly commit to one thing at time, being it offense or defence at a time. As Herald you can disrupt enemy burst rotation by just pressing UA and still dealing damage to him, you can flip your Facet of Light anytime without interruptig your own animations and that alone is huge threat to enemy as he has to respect fact that you will keep pressing him after flipping it, still mashing his face, when hes not really in position of hiting you back, as that will result only in more healing. Now compare FoL to Reversal of Fortune, that forces you to either cancel your animation preventing you from dealing damage at same time or time it perfectly or you're forced to channel it, while FoL is just pulsing you regen ready to be flipped at no real cost ready to be used when you need it.  Won't even speak about CC Willbender is seriously lacking.

Seeing double Revenant team during MAT finals was no surprise, so was seeing no Willbenders. As power guardian weapons are just poorly designed and outdated at best. To make Willbender anyhow on Revenant level (Herald/Renegade/Vindicator) ANET has to put a lot more work, as old power Guardian issues are still alive and are easy to spot when Rune of Trapper is out of picture.

TL/DR: I'd rather play Warrior than Willbender...

Edited by Morwath.9817
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On 4/8/2022 at 7:11 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Malyx condi rev was meta for like a year. RF has been on just about every guard build ever.

 

Thats not true. Before Quickness shout wasn't overnerfed into oblivion, Support Guards ran it over RF. Mantra of Liberation was used on FB right post PoF release and is still used over RF in WvWvW.

Edited by Morwath.9817
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I think guardian as a whole benefited greatly from the (poorly executed) change of retaliation to resolution. Nearly permanent -33% condi damage is nuts by itself, and now it can grant +40% crit chance too when traited? That's absurd power creep. WB is just better able to capitalize on this dynamic. 

 

The changes are still fresh so it's too early to say how the meta will shake out, but I think WB (and guard in general) will be in a pretty good spot once the dust settles.

Edited by CalmTheStorm.2364
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8 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I think guardian as a whole benefited greatly from the (poorly executed) change of retaliation to resolution. Nearly permanent -33% condi damage is nuts by itself, and now it can grant +40% crit chance too when traited? That's absurd power creep. WB is just better able to capitalize on this dynamic. 

 

The changes are still fresh so it's too early to say how the meta will shake out, but I think WB (and guard in general) will be in a pretty good spot once the dust settles.

Guardian also lost a huge source of their damage with this change. A good change nonetheless. 

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8 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I think guardian as a whole benefited greatly from the (poorly executed) change of retaliation to resolution. Nearly permanent -33% condi damage is nuts by itself, and now it can grant +40% crit chance too when traited? That's absurd power creep. WB is just better able to capitalize on this dynamic. 

 

The changes are still fresh so it's too early to say how the meta will shake out, but I think WB (and guard in general) will be in a pretty good spot once the dust settles.

As guard main, I feel its quite the opposite. Retaliation was a nice dps increase. Back then the burst was essentially big hits (focus #5, hammer #2) so that the back-retaliation wasn't really an issue. Except for gs #2 that was a suicide machine.
New resolution is meh for guards, as they have access to some instacast condi cleanses when needed.

 

The +40% crit chance on a trait is for sure absurd, but it is just an attempt to keep guards up-to-date via stats realignment. It is a lazy chance that affects build diversity [because that trait is a must have], and doesn't solve core issues [static gameplay, bugs/poor tracking on most of the skills, poor traits organization, weakness to weakness, etc.]. 

As for the willbender part, these changes were expected. Anet based this elite on a flawed "the more you hit the more you are rewarded" mechanic, on a class that already suffers from being able to hit. Anet solution ? Make the effect stronger or more frequent, i.e., powercreep. 

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