3 in 1 skills, the return

[viquing.8254]

Is it normal that :

- mobility/teleport skills does 3k + damage ?

- evading skill does 3k + damage ?

- many damaging skill & traits are aoe ?

- many skills pop condi/boon of top of raw damage with no logic (giving key boon & condi on a high duration in a no brain mode) ?

 

If yes than can every classes have the same balance logic please ? It's kinda frustrating fighting grandma carrying spec played by top player while being on an elden ring spec.

Edited April 9, 2022 by viquing.8254

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Example?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Example? 

[Khalisto.5780]

he's pointing out everything mesmers doesn't have

 

lightning flash from ele is a teleport that does dmg, 3k dmg maybe in berserker and critical dmg, blink from mesmer is just a blink

 

reckless dodge from warrior does dmg

 

aoe dmging skills, i dont see any problem with that, mesmer gs 3 is an aoe dmg skill

 

bottom line, he's frustrated with mesmer's balance state

[Ragnar.4257]

2 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

he's pointing out everything mesmers doesn't have

 

lightning flash from ele is a teleport that does dmg, 3k dmg maybe in berserker and critical dmg, blink from mesmer is just a blink

 

reckless dodge from warrior does dmg

 

aoe dmging skills, i dont see any problem with that, mesmer gs 3 is an aoe dmg skill

 

bottom line, he's frustrated with mesmer's balance state

Blade Leap is a mobility skill that does 3k+ damage.

Blurred Frenzy is an evade skill that does 3k+ damage.

Mesmer has plenty of AoE damage skills.

Literally everything on this list applies just as much to mesmer as it does any other class. Nevermind the fact that the argument that "every class should have the exact same abilities as every other class" is stupid to begin with.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Khalisto.5780]

7 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Blade Leap is a mobility skill that does 3k+ damage.

Blurred Frenzy is an evade skill that does 3k+ damage.

Mesmer has plenty of AoE damage skills.

Literally everything on this list applies just as much to mesmer as it does any other class. Nevermind the fact that the argument that "every class should have the exact same abilities as every other class" is stupid to begin with.

agreed, he's pointing out things he thinks carry another classes and want to have it all stacked on mesmer, so maybe he can win

[viquing.8254]

Just few from meta and I'm pretty sure I miss some.

 

Deathstrike : Why 8 sec fury ?

Mender's rebuke : why 3 sec weakness ?

Phase traversal : why 3 sec quickness + raw damage ?

Gaze of Darkness : why vulnerability ?

Elemental blast : why weakness ?

True nature : why 600 range aoe ?

Energizing Slam : why 2 condi + 2 boon + damage + leap  + aoe ?

Rocket fist prototype : why 1 sec stun ?

Wekening shourd : why weakness uptime available on aoe spam ?

Dancing dagger : Why torment ?

Inilftrator's strike : Why Swiftness ?

All scepter wells  : Why shadowstep ?

Well of silence : Why 4 condition + CC + shadowstep ?

Combat stimulant : why long duration boons ?

Weakening strikes : Why it has this long uptime with no effort ?

Devouring Cut : Why AOE ?

Voracious Arc : Why CC + condi + aoe + mobility+ evade ?

Elixir of promise : Why poison ?

Lightnin reflexes : Why vigor ?

Swoop : why damage ?

Winter Bite : Why 3 conditions ?

Lesser call of the wild : Why Weakness + 3 boons?

Dash : Why swiftness ?

Advancing Strike : Why Slow ?

Executioner's calling : why vulnerability ?

Siphon : What about base condi duration ?

Weeping Shots : what about base condi durations ?

Blade leap : didn't meet enough virtuoso to see that btw but why 3k+.

 

Again It's not even exhaustive.

Edited April 9, 2022 by viquing.8254

[viquing.8254]

33 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

agreed, he's pointing out things he thinks carry another classes and want to have it all stacked on mesmer, so maybe he can win

That the goal yeah.

By the way, it's the accumulation of : this is only a little boon or condi on skills that have nothing to do with it who make this game so clunky IMO.

I'm pretty interested of you wining with a sinking boat.

43 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Blurred Frenzy is an evade skill that does 3k+ damage.

Did you even launch blurred frenzy ?

 

43 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Mesmer has plenty of AoE damage skills.

Like ?

Did you want to compare the setup  if you talk about MW ?

Edited April 9, 2022 by viquing.8254

[viquing.8254]

43 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Blade Leap is a mobility skill that does 3k+ damage.

Blurred Frenzy is an evade skill that does 3k+ damage.

Mesmer has plenty of AoE damage skills.

Yes you can add mesmer 3 in 1,  I haven't any problem with that.

 

44 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Literally everything on this list applies just as much to mesmer as it does any other class. Nevermind the fact that the argument that "every class should have the exact same abilities as every other class" is stupid to begin with.

Is is better to be stupid or hypocritical ? you have 2 hours.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Blurred Frenzy is an evade skill that does 3k+ damage

Blurredy frenzy does what lmao

Edited April 9, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[DanAlcedo.3281]

1 hour ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

he's pointing out everything mesmers doesn't have

 

lightning flash from ele is a teleport that does dmg, 3k dmg maybe in berserker and critical dmg, blink from mesmer is just a blink

 

reckless dodge from warrior does dmg

 

aoe dmging skills, i dont see any problem with that, mesmer gs 3 is an aoe dmg skill

 

bottom line, he's frustrated with mesmer's balance state

Hey hey hey! Give Warrior some slack. Poor guys get beaten everyday by anet. Let him have something nice. 😢

[Ragnar.4257]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Blurredy frenzy does what lmao

Admittedly it requires the stars to align with crits, but its possible. Substitute for Axes of Symmetry if you prefer.

Doesn't change the fact that its a weird thing to complain about, given that mesmer actually has several  ways to pressure while evading/invuln, and infact several other classes don't have that capacity at all. It's not like its something that every other class has except mesmer.

It's like arguing that mesmer is bad because there's too much confusion in the game. Sure you can argue that mesmer is underpowered, but why on earth would you pick confusion as your example of powercreep??

Edited April 9, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Eddie.9143]

blurred frenzy does 800 if ur lucky lets be real lol

[Downstate.4697]

I think the moa buff gave mesmers too much hope. Go back to your copium cave! 

[Bazsi.2734]

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Blurredy frenzy does what lmao

Go play some virtuoso lol.

[Dadnir.5038]

Overloaded skills is a true issue, there are even some skills that does so many things that the tooltip start to look like a novel.

[Swagg.9236]

8 hours ago, viquing.8254 said:

Is it normal that :

- mobility/teleport skills does 3k + damage ?

- evading skill does 3k + damage ?

- many damaging skill & traits are aoe ?

- many skills pop condi/boon of top of raw damage with no logic (giving key boon & condi on a high duration in a no brain mode) ?

 

If yes than can every classes have the same balance logic please ? It's kinda frustrating fighting grandma carrying spec played by top player while being on an elden ring spec.

No, it's not normal.  GW2 was super clunky when it launched, but instead of building around a normalized combat tempo, anet just sped everything up and insulated attacks with damage negation and teleports until PvE rotations hit the PvP scene.  GW2 remains very clunky to be honest about its design, however, everything is instantaneous now so it's easier to smooth over the faults.  The downside is that now every class is basically a copy of either Thief or 2013 D/D Celesital Elementalist (the two builds that have historically always had everything the game offered within a single skillbar).

[Terrorhuz.4695]

2 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Go play some virtuoso lol.

I think I'd rather chop my fingers off tbh

Edited April 9, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Kozumi.5816]

10 hours ago, viquing.8254 said:

mobility/teleport skills does 3k + damage ?

- evading skill does 3k + damage ?

- many damaging skill & traits are aoe ?

Depends on the class. Some classes don't abide by the same balance rules as others.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

it really depends on the skill. some are overloaded and do way too much like holo leap, others will be bad no matter what you add to them (cough cough warrior hammer).

[Sonork.2916]

I always thought spectral walk was the most overloaded single skill.

[Mit Nllea.8490]

What's funny about almost every balance whiner I'd they don't actually demonstrate that they understand how balance works. Balance takes into account everything a skill or trait does or doesn't do, damage, cool down, range, additional affects...etc. for your blink example, lightning flash may do 3k, but it's on a 40 second cooldown, can't break stun, and had 900 range. Mesmers blink on the other hand may not do 3k, but it's 1200 range, breaks stun, and on a 30 second cooldown. Are they perfectly balanced? Probably not, but the only way to make the game perfectly balanced is to make it very bland where everyone has the same 10 skills that do the same 10 things exactly the same, which personally sounds like watching paint dry.

[viquing.8254]

17 hours ago, Mit Nllea.8490 said:

What's funny about almost every balance whiner I'd they don't actually demonstrate that they understand how balance works. Balance takes into account everything a skill or trait does or doesn't do, damage, cool down, range, additional affects...etc. for your blink example, lightning flash may do 3k, but it's on a 40 second cooldown, can't break stun, and had 900 range. Mesmers blink on the other hand may not do 3k, but it's 1200 range, breaks stun, and on a 30 second cooldown. Are they perfectly balanced? Probably not, but the only way to make the game perfectly balanced is to make it very bland where everyone has the same 10 skills that do the same 10 things exactly the same, which personally sounds like watching paint dry.

 

Lightning flash wasn't what I have in mind btw,  It has a high CD and a low range. Got to my list above for more details about what I have in mind.

 

What's funny about hypocretical is that they don't understand that classes aren't in competitive meta since 2 years and their opponents have 2 time more tools they have while being meta since literraly the day they come or more time.

And there are people who still lose to thoses gutted classes.

 

I haven't the pretention to understand how balance work,  I just see that I have to do 5 times the effort to be in par with the meta. Like I said, dark souls feel easier most of time.

 

What make me fell really bad is how they kill/remove our tools to give them to everybody.

Historicaly, there were classes good in teamfight and other good in duelling/rotation.

Now teamfight classes get everything while duelling/rotation classes got nothing.

 

[Bazsi.2734]

55 minutes ago, viquing.8254 said:

What make me fell really bad is how they kill/remove our tools to give them to everybody.

Historicaly, there were classes good in teamfight and other good in duelling/rotation.

Now teamfight classes get everything while duelling/rotation classes got nothing.

 

This might be part of your problem... the way you view this game is outdated.
In vanilla the classes clearly had advantages over each other, therefore you could say they fit in different roles. But over the decade, a boatload of reworks and the additon of 3 e-specs each destroyed this "order". Classes do not have roles anymore. Builds do.

Just pointing to one skill and complaining that it does too much doesn't cut it anymore. Maybe it's needed to carry an otherwise weak kit. Maybe an average looking skill needs a nerf to bring an overperforming build into line with others etc... You either put  skills in proper context(comparing it to ONE other skill is not it) or you don't really have a point.

[viquing.8254]

The concept of single target skill doing more damage than AOE is outdated too ?

The concept of melee skill doing more damage than range is outdated too ?

 

You want an easy comparison : chrono gravity well and scepter ulti : they both do the same thing apart than scepter one can be used as a mobility tool if wanted, with less CD. When I look about the context, the gap is even more larger than just looking at the skills alone.

 

Like I list in the list of skills above, there are all "small" things who seems to didn't matter but when you combine all of this, you end up with hudge disparities. So I'm really talking about overall contexte and not just skill one per one.

Like "it's ok it just a boon or condi on a skill, it didn't make it OP". This kind of reasonning is the problem IMO when looking at the overall context.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by viquing.8254