Prototype XJ-1 (Gang War of Echovald) "Get behind something!"

[AliamRationem.5172]

16 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

From the video ... the blue circle shows up at 7:17, audio cue at 7:18, the hit happens at 7:22. That is 4/5s to respond which is much longer than a lot of other telegraphed attacks.

Actually yes. Trying to follow that advice the first time was what got me kill multiple times.

Simply looking out for the blue/white circles worked out much better. Only got hit once and that was from overcommitting on a ress.

I don't see how it "got you killed" as you'd be watching for both.  If waiting for blue circles to pop before you look for the location of the junk piles works for you then go ahead and do that.  For those saying that doesn't give them enough time, watching for the arm to drop the junk piles and then making sure you're close enough to reach them when the blue circles pop is a good solution. 

[Veprovina.4876]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Are you saying you can't see the boss drop its gigantic arm across the entire field?  Just watch for that to know where the junk piles are placed.  Then position yourself close to them so when the call comes you don't need to look for anything or use movement skills.

Actually yes, that's what i'm saying. So much crap is on screen at once that i sometimes don't see what the boss is doing, especially if i'm turned away from it, dodging, or dealing with other shooty, punchy things that clutter the area as well. And then the junk piles blend with the envirnment, and some are "so far away" that they trigger LOD and just blur with everything, and then circles don't render and yeah, i don't see where i'm supposed to go. Not in the 3 seconds i'm supposed to anyway.

[Linken.6345]

20 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Actually yes, that's what i'm saying. So much crap is on screen at once that i sometimes don't see what the boss is doing, especially if i'm turned away from it, dodging, or dealing with other shooty, punchy things that clutter the area as well. And then the junk piles blend with the envirnment, and some are "so far away" that they trigger LOD and just blur with everything, and then circles don't render and yeah, i don't see where i'm supposed to go. Not in the 3 seconds i'm supposed to anyway.

Seems like you need to train up your situational awarness abit.

[Nazarick.9653]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Are you saying you can't see the boss drop its gigantic arm across the entire field?  Just watch for that to know where the junk piles are placed.  Then position yourself close to them so when the call comes you don't need to look for anything or use movement skills.

 

Not in melee range with a ton of crap on screen, no.  In fact today I tried to do it with the screen zoomed all the way out...and got killed once because I stacked with everyone else on the blue circle and the game decided I wasn't actually in the blue circle.  Because I can't see myself when zoomed out like that.  (much prefer pulling away from the boss early and teleporting to the blue circle when the warning comes...it's not Soo-Won after all)

 

3 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Actually yes. Trying to follow that advice the first time was what got me kill multiple times.

Simply looking out for the blue/white circles worked out much better. Only got hit once and that was from overcommitting on a ress.

 

Same thing happened to me on Boneskinner...once I zoomed back in and focused on the circles of death (and learned to spot the "fake" ones), I was able to dodge on most occasions.

[Eaglebach.7593]

You can also hide behind an ele or untamed. The hard part is to find one of them in game, especially untamed.

[Linken.6345]

38 minutes ago, Nazarick.9653 said:

 

Not in melee range with a ton of crap on screen, no.  In fact today I tried to do it with the screen zoomed all the way out...and got killed once because I stacked with everyone else on the blue circle and the game decided I wasn't actually in the blue circle.  Because I can't see myself when zoomed out like that.  (much prefer pulling away from the boss early and teleporting to the blue circle when the warning comes...it's not Soo-Won after all)

 

 

Same thing happened to me on Boneskinner...once I zoomed back in and focused on the circles of death (and learned to spot the "fake" ones), I was able to dodge on most occasions.

You dont have to dodge out of boneskinner circles just steping 2 or 3 steps to the left is enough if the squad know how to stay on the commander.

[Veprovina.4876]

3 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Seems like you need to train up your situational awarness abit.

Seems like you need to read the whole post and not cherry pick your arguments...

 

I did mention LOD blending and circles not appearing didn't i?

[Linken.6345]

54 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Seems like you need to read the whole post and not cherry pick your arguments...

 

I did mention LOD blending and circles not appearing didn't i?

And if people saw were the first or second big arm slamed down across the whole battlefield, the would not need to see any circles at all they would know were they would be.

Hence why  I said what I said.

[Veprovina.4876]

37 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

And if people saw were the first or second big arm slamed down across the whole battlefield, the would not need to see any circles at all they would know were they would be.

Hence why  I said what I said.

And since so many don't, it appears it's not all the people fault all the time, might have something to do with bad design?

 

Besides they would absolutely still need to see circles because slamming arms doesn't tell you where the safe spots will be, uudt that they are coming up. 

 

And it still doesn't excuse you from cheery picking because my complaints weren't even relevant to are slams. They were about the graphical engine not working properly and being too saturated with effects during critical moments.

 

So your comment still doesn't make sense.

[mythical.6315]

 Choosing to ignore mechanics and getting punished for it isn’t bad design. 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I usually get splattered once or maybe twice because I'm a bit slow to notice where the safe spots are and then actually moving there. But I don't mind too much as I still get my rewards.

 

(Character) *Aranimda writing*: How Dare You say that! 😡 That Really hurt.

[Linken.6345]

57 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

And since so many don't, it appears it's not all the people fault all the time, might have something to do with bad design?

 

Besides they would absolutely still need to see circles because slamming arms doesn't tell you where the safe spots will be, uudt that they are coming up. 

 

And it still doesn't excuse you from cheery picking because my complaints weren't even relevant to are slams. They were about the graphical engine not working properly and being too saturated with effects during critical moments.

 

So your comment still doesn't make sense.

Seems like you still dont understand the fight.

Were the arms slam down they leave rubble behind, that is were the safe spot will be so being close to were said arm slamed down will make you get to the safe spot in time.

You can start looking for the rubble after first arm lift up from the spot it slamed down.

You dont have to wait for the npc to shout out take cover behind something.

 

You having limited situational awareness dont make it bad game design.

And 90% of the people stand melee with that boss so you shouldent be blinded by their auras all the way in the back.

[Veprovina.4876]

10 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Seems like you still dont understand the fight.

Were the arms slam down they leave rubble behind, that is were the safe spot will be so being close to were said arm slamed down will make you get to the safe spot in time.

You can start looking for the rubble after first arm lift up from the spot it slamed down.

You dont have to wait for the npc to shout out take cover behind something.

 

You having limited situational awareness dont make it bad game design.

And 90% of the people stand melee with that boss so you shouldent be blinded by their auras all the way in the back.

And were going now in circles...

 

I say one thing, you responding with something unrelated. This is the part of the conversatuon where I stop explaining things i already explained.

[Linken.6345]

20 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

And were going now in circles...

 

I say one thing, you responding with something unrelated. This is the part of the conversatuon where I stop explaining things i already explained.

We are still arguing about the video clip of a guy not understanding to get into blue circles right, linked earlier in this thread right?

The guy linking that complained the same as you about how you couldent see anything because of all the crap on screen, but the video clearly shows hand slam down and player almost standing in the circle once before yoloing out to attack right as a slam happened.

They clearly dident know the mechanic at all and it wasent due to not being able to see they were failing.

[Veprovina.4876]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

We are still arguing about the video clip of a guy not understanding to get into blue circles right, linked earlier in this thread right?

The guy linking that complained the same as you about how you couldent see anything because of all the crap on screen, but the video clearly shows hand slam down and player almost standing in the circle once before yoloing out to attack right as a slam happened.

They clearly dident know the mechanic at all and it wasent due to not being able to see they were failing.

Ummm, what? I was never arguing about any  video, I was talking about my experience only.

And with a low end pc and game on medium, stuff happens that makes it impossible to tell certain mechanics.

And without gfx options to disable stuff like infusions, or the game pruning effects by itself st criticsl moments for visibility, it's impossible for me to fine tune that.

[mythical.6315]

I’ve done the meta on the lowest graphics settings. There was no negative impact on the ability to do the mechanic. The bright blue circle was still clearly visible and you could see the arms of the boss when they go to hit the ground. 

[hgkmaxymus.9321]

19 hours ago, Nazarick.9653 said:

 

It's exactly this...yet another product of Anet designing encounters with the best latency/framerates, expecting the best from everyone without those and ofc their refusal to let us get rid of other player's spell effects. (not everyone wants to see infusions and combo fields, we just want to see the @#£%* red circles to dodge out of, and be able to do so without wading through fps treacle caused by everyone else)

 

Just like with Boneskinner...the only way to see the boss raising his arm is to zoom right out so you can't see yourself or the constant circles of instant death.  But with this boss being so big, you also have to tilt the camera up - how do all the raiders expect us to do that and THEN change the view back so we can run to the white spot that's at the opposite end of the area? And not only that - if you're a bit late in reaching the next area when he moves (easy to happen with stuck-in-combat and low fps), you're liable to get splattered without even a white text warning.

(the only possible caveat here is that there's no reason to move other than that, whereas Boneskinner is the opposite)

 

Poor design, poor design...if you're going to add raid mechanics to bosses, at least make it fairer for those without perfect specs.

 

(for the record, I play a melee class/build with low fps. I also used to raid a lot in WoW, and it was never this bad)

You do know there are graphic options for that, right? 

To limit effects/skills and to limit the number of players models / high quality textures.

Just gotta be careful with the skills limit, since some people complain they can't see enemies aoes when on low xD

 

I am not a great player, I have 200ms ping, my graphics card is not the best (run some things on medium, others on high), but I can get behind the trash most of the time, even when meleeing the boss.

Zoom out, watch from a high level (not from behind your character/floor), when the trash appear, move closer but keep hitting it, when the NPC yells hide, or the interface warns you, or when you see the white/blue circle show up behind the trash, you go hide. 😬

 

(about boneskinner, I don't see if the hand is up, I can tell by the mechanics. The pulls, breakbar, aoes, etc. Being able to see the hand would help me? Idk, never noticed it, I think. xD) 

[Bingus.4236]

Putting the "get behind a trash pile" text up as soon as the boss puts it on the ground would help a whole lot as would having the trash pile a different colour from the rest of the environment.

 

It's pretty indicative of a lot of fights in the game which go STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, GET IN THE CIRCLE!! WTF! YOU'RE DEAD!

[AliamRationem.5172]

14 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

And since so many don't, it appears it's not all the people fault all the time, might have something to do with bad design?

 

Besides they would absolutely still need to see circles because slamming arms doesn't tell you where the safe spots will be, uudt that they are coming up. 

 

And it still doesn't excuse you from cheery picking because my complaints weren't even relevant to are slams. They were about the graphical engine not working properly and being too saturated with effects during critical moments.

 

So your comment still doesn't make sense.

I don't get it.  You understand that the slamming arm is what places the junk pile that you hide behind, yes?  It leaves a physical object on the ground, behind which the blue circle will spawn.  So, if you see the massive arm and understand what it is doing (that's really the key point here!) then you know where the safe points will be so that even if you have latency or issues with visual noise, you can position yourself such that you can reach the safe point in time when the call goes out.

[AliamRationem.5172]

5 hours ago, Bingus.4236 said:

Putting the "get behind a trash pile" text up as soon as the boss puts it on the ground would help a whole lot as would having the trash pile a different colour from the rest of the environment.

 

It's pretty indicative of a lot of fights in the game which go STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, STAY OUT OF THE CIRCLE, GET IN THE CIRCLE!! WTF! YOU'RE DEAD!

The circles have different colors, though.  Green and blue = good, red and orange = bad.  That's generally how it works.  Or had you not noticed this?

I agree that the telegraphs are a bit misleading as they come a little too late to be useful if you lack movement skills and do not position yourself close enough to the junk piles ahead of time.  That's the purpose of all this advice informing people to look for the arm slamming down which places the junk pile.  That way you know ahead of time where you need to be so it isn't much of an issue.

[Gibson.4036]

Yes, if you watch where the arm slams down and head toward the pile of rubble, you can get there in time.

But...

Yes it is weird that the game says "Hide!" and makes a bright blue circle for you to stand in after the point where you reallly should be moving to that spot.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I wish there was a timeout gate for those who constantly fail the mechanic. The attack pattern is frog king levels of predictability. Swipe left, swipe right, put down pile left, put down pile right, clap. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

I wish there was a timeout gate for those who constantly fail the mechanic. The attack pattern is frog king levels of predictability. Swipe left, swipe right, put down pile left, put down pile right, clap. 

There is. It's called instant death with no downstate. 

[Veprovina.4876]

7 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

The circles have different colors, though.  Green and blue = good, red and orange = bad.  That's generally how it works.  Or had you not noticed this?

I agree that the telegraphs are a bit misleading as they come a little too late to be useful if you lack movement skills and do not position yourself close enough to the junk piles ahead of time.  That's the purpose of all this advice informing people to look for the arm slamming down which places the junk pile.  That way you know ahead of time where you need to be so it isn't much of an issue.

Look, i have a low spec PC where stuff like this:

 

https://imgur.com/qtKrURK

 

happens constantly. Is it really that hard to grasp that sometimes stuff doesn't render? 

 

Like, how many times do i have to explain that i sometimes don't see where to go and that 4 seconds aren't enough for me to extrapolate where the freaking arms were (if i can even see them hit that is), and guess where everything is supposed to render?

 

Even with clear visual indicators it's cutting really close and people can't sometimes make it to the cover in time.

But on low end PCs, it's worse.

 

Luckily, infusion vomit and huge spell effects get priority when rendering, so sometimes the engine just forgets to render the boss stuff. Neato!

[Shadowmoon.7986]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

There is. It's called instant death with no downstate. 

Not really, people just instant rez, rush back to the boss and fail the mechanic again. I talking about a timeout like when you die in fractals or dungeons. People might actually watch the mechanics, see what people who do to not die do and learn.  I just want thr playerbase to evolve past npc level of ai.