Power revenant is too weak in pve

[Nephalem.8921]

Power revenant was an absolute meme in pve before eod and battle scar nerf nerfed the laughable damage even further. renegade + herald have both powerful mods and legends and are not enough to bring it on par with real classes. 

Vindicator has more than 30% in mods to fix this somewhat yet its still not enough. Fixing vindi with gs exclusive and alliance buffs will not fix herald and power ren which both suffer from undertuned core design. 

Sword is supposed to be the single target dps weapon yet its weaker than gs on single target. A fully buffed sword 4 does 30k dmg on vindicator with all the mods active. 15second cd and energy cost on top. sword 5 is even weaker than that and has the same cds.

Darkrazor on ren does 9k damage. Its a cc skill i get it but there isnt anything else to spend the energy on unless they would lower the cds. energy cost + high cd + low impact. most of the rev damage comes from shiro upkeep + aa + icerazor. Kalla elite is a useless meme. Actually all rev elites except mallyx are useless memes in pve. Shiro 50 energy for 300 breakbar dmg ??? Jalis 40 energy for short dmg reduction. extremely niche. Ventari, just no. Glint is ok too i guess.

Vindicators highest impact skill vs small hitbox and single target is gs5. Same cd and energy cost as sword 4 yet does 100% more dmg. sadly this is not an exaggeration. Vs big hitbox it does almost 3 times as much dmg.

Power rev needs help and buffing swords and maybe even lowering shiro elite energy to 20 max would help vindicator and all the other power rev builds a lot. make skills feel impactful and stop the aa + upkeep meme. Vindicator needs cc mostly. A tiny bit more dmg wouldnt be bad either. also needs a 2nd dodge. High risk low reward with current 1 dodge design. Especially if anet keeps designing content around dodges.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[Icetea.3204]

2 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

 Vindicators highest impact skill vs small hitbox and single target is gs5. Same cd and energy cost as sword 4 yet does 100% more dmg. sadly this is not an exaggeration.

Tbf. GS5 is also single target. While the random impacts can "cleave" the target cap for each enemy is 1.

Anyway, I completely agree with you. Power herald and renegade are just a meme.

Vindicator isn't bad. The dps is okayish considering that it still provides ap, but why would you take a class that can only maybe keep up with other classes when it gives ap to them and doesn't really provide any cc in most cases.

I think it's a very solid pick for samarog and sloth, because staff 5 is so insanely good. For every other boss it's not worth it to swap to staff though. Vindicator has basically no decent cc at all or goes completely overboard with staff 5. There's no inbetween.

Giving a knockback to spear of archermerus, increasing the target cap of GS5 to 3 and doing some very small number adjustments would already make it a very solid spec. It really doesn't need much.

Renegade is basically condi. I don't think we will get a good power alternative considering that vindicator isn't trash.

Herald might as well not exists lol.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

They need to be careful if they buff swords since it also affects diviner Ren which is already a high tier build, but I do agree the damage on 4/5 is kind of pitiful overall.  Sword/sword is still suffering from the years of PvP nerfs unfortunately. 

 

Vindicator does need a damage buff for sure though.  There’s no reason power Virtuoso, a build that can operate at 1200 range, should have 2k more damage than vindicator under the best scenario and 4K more damage under the worst.  I don’t think Virtuoso needs to be nerfed but I do think Vindicator needs to be brought up, particularly on its small hit box damage. Personally I would further buff Alliance’s damage to make it fully worth using as the de facto non-Shiro DPS option.  The spec also needs slightly longer vigor uptime or a slightly longer Forerunner of Death buff; currently without an outside vigor source it’s possible to drop the buff or be forced to use energy meld to maintain it, both of which are DPS losses. 
 

And Jade Winds is another skill suffering from years of PvP balance. It should definitely be cheaper in PvE like you say which would help open more CC options up to vindicator because currently 50 energy is insanely prohibitive in most situations.  Anywhere between 20-30 would be good. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[DanAlcedo.3281]

And that's why I believe Revenant should have gotten the "samurai" spec. 

Talon Silverwing as a Legend. 

Greatsword as a weapon. 

Revenant Warrior mix with lots of power dps. 

[Thon.3780]

Just my opinion, I feel that mob def is higher each expansion pack

so  blend atk is needed to penetrate def. . 

If we notice each elite 

herald can mex might 25

ren. I think it can max might but it plus burning barrage 

vin. No idea how you can stack 25 might or not. But you can hit 1.5 time with quickness. 
 

and… because vin hit 1,5 time , that mean you can do more stack 1.5 time too.

[otto.5684]

I think combining all three elites together, is not thr right way to look at it. power renegade is where it needs to be. Not great, however, considering everything else renegade offers, it is fine. You do not want one elite to have the class highest  power dps, condi dps and best support (CC too).

 

Vindicator does about 36k-37k dps. That is pretty decent. Could it get 1-2k more buff? Sure, though I expect that most EoD power builds will settle some where in 35k-38k ranged. 

 

Herald on the other hand… it has a major identity crises. It sucks at all forms of damage and does provide any meaningful support. 

[Nephalem.8921]

6 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

They need to be careful if they buff swords since it also affects diviner Ren which is already a high tier build, but I do agree the damage on 4/5 is kind of pitiful overall.  Sword/sword is still suffering from the years of PvP nerfs unfortunately. 

 

Vindicator does need a damage buff for sure though.  There’s no reason power Virtuoso, a build that can operate at 1200 range, should have 2k more damage than vindicator under the best scenario and 4K more damage under the worst.  I don’t think Virtuoso needs to be nerfed but I do think Vindicator needs to be brought up, particularly on its small hit box damage. Personally I would further buff Alliance’s damage to make it fully worth using as the de facto non-Shiro DPS option.  The spec also needs slightly longer vigor uptime or a slightly longer Forerunner of Death buff; currently without an outside vigor source it’s possible to drop the buff or be forced to use energy meld to maintain it, both of which are DPS losses. 
 

And Jade Winds is another skill suffering from years of PvP balance. It should definitely be cheaper in PvE like you say which would help open more CC options up to vindicator because currently 50 energy is insanely prohibitive in most situations.  Anywhere between 20-30 would be good. 

Diviner ren is a low tier build. Outclassed by ritu ren. its only a thing in fractal speedruns. Not because its great but because it is the only power alac option we have with a bit of burst. Staff 5 is the only reason why its played on some raid encounters.

25k dps are too low. Its better to take RR or staxe or even ritu ren usually. Alac mech gives 25might on top of alac. Half of renegade is power. Has mods and legend skills. Virtuoso has almost nothing condi based yet they buffed it to 42k dps.

Rev core weapons are rather weak. Condi is overperforming anyways.

They might buff herald and give it quickness but they have to buff it too. Buffing swords would help all 3 builds. All 3 builds are underperforming currently. I dont get why other classes like dh are allowed to do 70k and more damage with weapon skills which have shorter cds and no energy cost.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

2 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Diviner ren is a low tier build. Outclassed by ritu ren. its only a thing in fractal speedruns. Not because its great but because it is the only power alac option we have with a bit of burst. Staff 5 is the only reason why its played on some raid encounters.

25k dps are too low. Its better to take RR or staxe or even ritu ren usually. Alac mech gives 25might on top of alac. Half of renegade is power. Has mods and legend skills. Virtuoso has almost nothing condi based yet they buffed it to 42k dps.

Rev core weapons are rather weak. Condi is overperforming anyways.

They might buff herald and give it quickness but they have to buff it too. Buffing swords would help all 3 builds. All 3 builds are underperforming currently. I dont get why other classes like dh are allowed to do 70k and more damage with weapon skills which have shorter cds and no energy cost.

I disagree that diviner is outclassed by ritualist Ren.  In damage?  Absolutely. In utility?  Not a chance. You take the two builds for different things based on team comp and what you want/need.  It’s definitely not a “low tier” build even after the nerfs. Is there room for it to be buffed after the Battle Scars nerfs? Yes, a bit, but they should be wary of buffing it too much or else it will become the de-facto alacrity option once again. 
 

I’m also not sure swords is where I would want Vindicator to be buffed anyway.  Swords lose damage on multiple targets making it less efficient in practice than on golem.  Considering Vindicator  is already hitbox dependent having more “weird damage trade offs” is probably not what is best for the class

Edited April 11, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Nephalem.8921]

3 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

I disagree that diviner is outclassed by ritualist Ren.  In damage?  Absolutely. In utility?  Not a chance. You take the two builds for different things based on team comp and what you want/need.  It’s definitely not a “low tier” build even after the nerfs. Is there room for it to be buffed after the Battle Scars nerfs? Yes, a bit, but they should be wary of buffing it too much or else it will become the de-facto alacrity option once again. 
 

I’m also not sure swords is where I would want Vindicator to be buffed anyway.  Swords lose damage on multiple targets making it less efficient in practice than on golem.  Considering Vindicator  is already hitbox dependent having more “weird damage trade offs” is probably not what is best for the class

do you mean staff 5 with utility? because ritu ren can take jalis too and will do more damage than diviner ren that way. CC is nice, thats it. Ritu ren is too weak aswell anyways. Most of the alacrity sources are just bad if you compare them to the quickness sources. In raids its usually better to take alac mech over ren because it does provide might aswell.

The only reason why diviner ren is good is because it has no competition. The only other power alac build is mech and that build has 0 burst. Misses the strength of a power build completely. Tempest and reworked warrior banners migth change this.

Staff does only good cc vs a massive hitbox. Good on samarog and sloth, thats it. Gorseval breakbar is not big enough to justify such a low dps class. 

Only sword 2 requires an isolated target. Buffing sword 4+5 has nothing to do with weird dmg tradeoffs. The difference between camping just gs and swapping to sword sword and doing an actual rotation is very minor currently.

[Obtena.7952]

Seems to me with Anet's new direction for roles in team scenarios, the strength of non-role DPS builds really isn't an important consideration anymore; any class does decent enough DPS for what is necessary to complete content. Therefore, I think it's going to be a pretty hard sell to 'balance' classes around DPS reasons in PVE. 

Frankly, I've never had a problem doing what I need to do, in team or solo in PVE with a Revenant, DPS or Alacrity build.  

Edited April 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

2 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

do you mean staff 5 with utility? because ritu ren can take jalis too and will do more damage than diviner ren that way. CC is nice, thats it. Ritu ren is too weak aswell anyways. Most of the alacrity sources are just bad if you compare them to the quickness sources. In raids its usually better to take alac mech over ren because it does provide might aswell.

...

Staff does only good cc vs a massive hitbox. Good on samarog and sloth, thats it. Gorseval breakbar is not big enough to justify such a low dps class. 

It's a much bigger dps loss for cAlacrigade to take Jalis than it is for pAlacrigade.  You end up having to give up Kalla or Mallyx, both of which are major sources of dps and Kalla a major source of CC.  Jalis hammers also don't synergize with Ritualist gear at all; there's literally no power/precision/ferocity on that set, however, they do synergize well with diviner's gear, even if it's not the highest dps option.  Yes, cAlacrigade will end up doing more damage while taking Jalis, but not by much.  cAlacrigade also has the issue of competing with any full dps cRens that might be in a party as well since Razorclaw doesn't stack its bleeds.  This is also an issue with RR setups at the moment as well; only one Ren per 5 players can effectively get the full 3k extra damage from Razorclaw.  pAlacrigade also brings Assassin's Presence while the highest dps variant of cAlac notably does not at the moment.  It is a dps loss for cAlac to bring Devastation.  This means that the 25.5k bench for pAlac is actually higher if you factor in the group buff utility it provides. 

And I disagree with Staff 5 only being good on massive hitbox.  150 per hit, up to 8 hits, you can get at least 3 hits on pretty much every foe giving it 450-1200 breakbar depending on hitbox size.  Surge is also incredibly useful on Sabir/Qadim 2.0 and still solid on fights like KC (not sure why you'd bring a cAlac on KC...) and Gorse.  Just having Surge around can shore up any problems the group might have with CC and it can also let other supports take different non-CC utility instead, boosting group survivability or damage.

Sure, if you're only concerned with damage, then yeah, cAlacrigade is going to be better by a margin when you don't need burst, but personally as someone who prefers solid, easier clears pAlacrigade is more than welcome in my groups as it's just far more flexible than cAlac and doesn't lose much when you need it to bring any sort of helpful utility, like Jalis or Ventari. 

Also, if you're using firebrand for quickness then might still isn't an issue for Ren regardless, heroic command provides plenty as it always has alongside other might gen sources within the group. 

Quote

Only sword 2 requires an isolated target. Buffing sword 4+5 has nothing to do with weird dmg tradeoffs.

That's actually not true.  Sword 4 loses damage across multiple targets.  Only the first strike hits all enemies equally; after the first strike the remaining strikes are spread across all of the hit enemies, meaning you lose single target damage when striking multiple foes with Shackling Wave

Lastly I'm not against buffing swords, I just think they need to be careful if they do.  I also don't like how Swords play due to the damage tradeoffs against multi-targets which is why I don't think it's the best way for Vindicator to be made better.  It's very possible they end up creating a higher dps variant of Vindicator that both loses damage on small hitbox and also loses damage across multiple targets.  Currently, as you mentioned, the GS only variant is competitive with S/S GS and so this extra tradeoff is avoidable at the moment, but if they decide that Vindicator needs to be buffed through Swords alone then we'll end up in a situation where both of these tradeoffs exist simultaneously with no way to avoid them without gutting your dps which wouldn't be great

Edited April 12, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Nephalem.8921]

1 hour ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

It's a much bigger dps loss for cAlacrigade to take Jalis than it is for pAlacrigade.  You end up having to give up Kalla or Mallyx, both of which are major sources of dps and Kalla a major source of CC.  Jalis hammers also don't synergize with Ritualist gear at all; there's literally no power/precision/ferocity on that set, however, they do synergize well with diviner's gear, even if it's not the highest dps option.  Yes, cAlacrigade will end up doing more damage while taking Jalis, but not by much.  cAlacrigade also has the issue of competing with any full dps cRens that might be in a party as well since Razorclaw doesn't stack its bleeds.  This is also an issue with RR setups at the moment as well; only one Ren per 5 players can effectively get the full 3k extra damage from Razorclaw.  pAlacrigade also brings Assassin's Presence while the highest dps variant of cAlac notably does not at the moment.  It is a dps loss for cAlac to bring Devastation.  This means that the 25.5k bench for pAlac is actually higher if you factor in the group buff utility it provides. 

And I disagree with Staff 5 only being good on massive hitbox.  150 per hit, up to 8 hits, you can get at least 3 hits on pretty much every foe giving it 450-1200 breakbar depending on hitbox size.  Surge is also incredibly useful on Sabir/Qadim 2.0 and still solid on fights like KC (not sure why you'd bring a cAlac on KC...) and Gorse.  Just having Surge around can shore up any problems the group might have with CC and it can also let other supports take different non-CC utility instead, boosting group survivability or damage.

Sure, if you're only concerned with damage, then yeah, cAlacrigade is going to be better by a margin when you don't need burst, but personally as someone who prefers solid, easier clears pAlacrigade is more than welcome in my groups as it's just far more flexible than cAlac and doesn't lose much when you need it to bring any sort of helpful utility, like Jalis or Ventari. 

Also, if you're using firebrand for quickness then might still isn't an issue for Ren regardless, heroic command provides plenty as it always has alongside other might gen sources within the group. 

That's actually not true.  Sword 4 loses damage across multiple targets.  Only the first strike hits all enemies equally; after the first strike the remaining strikes are spread across all of the hit enemies, meaning you lose single target damage when striking multiple foes with Shackling Wave

Lastly I'm not against buffing swords, I just think they need to be careful if they do.  I also don't like how Swords play due to the damage tradeoffs against multi-targets which is why I don't think it's the best way for Vindicator to be made better.  It's very possible they end up creating a higher dps variant of Vindicator that both loses damage on small hitbox and also loses damage across multiple targets.  Currently, as you mentioned, the GS only variant is competitive with S/S GS and so this extra tradeoff is avoidable at the moment, but if they decide that Vindicator needs to be buffed through Swords alone then we'll end up in a situation where both of these tradeoffs exist simultaneously with no way to avoid them without gutting your dps which wouldn't be great

You are 100% right about sword 4. Jesus is that a trash skill. its 25-30k total shared dmg. Does it use pvp values in pve or why is it so low?

Might is actually a massive issue now in power comps. So much that you sometimes even bring might dps tempest again. Fb provides only like 5 average on the dps quickness build. Only condi comps spread it around for free and they are rewarded with higher dps aswell to compensate. Power builds just lack utility or have to sacrifice a lot to get utility.

The thing is cAlac ren is bad. Its extremely outclassed by staxe mirage and only really good in fractals. Even alac specter is better. Alac mech is usually the better option because it gives all the other boons aswell. You can bring 2 builds to KC because only 2 power alac builds exist. This doesnt make ren good and will change in 2 months anyways.

Playing quickness scrapper or fb i feel like im actually contributing towards dps aswell. As diviner ren its just sad. Especially in the new strikes. Its probably only ok'ish in aetherblade because of the massive breakbar close to a wall but in the other ones you sacrifice so much dps for jalis road. You could also take a fb with syg to achieve the same and have way higher group dps.

And like you wrote that 25k dps is unrealistic in real scenarios too since its lower with adds around. Icerazor doesnt cleave, sword 2+ 4 arent cleaving aswell. I wish power builds wouldnt be so weak currently. qscrapper and chrono 5k lower than qfb and harb for some reason. Staxe 37k + 35 confusion. 

 

[Icetea.3204]

3 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

The thing is cAlac ren is bad. Its extremely outclassed by staxe mirage and only really good in fractals. Even alac specter is better.
 

But that's not necessarily true. cAlac Renegade is better than specter in terms of dps and it bursts way harder. From a pure dps perspective Renegade is just better and you can still provide ap.

Specter shines with its amazing group support with the insane barrier and the extremely good healing without any investment.

It also has better access to cc and provides fury.

[Virdo.1540]

Unsuspecting strikes: from +20% to 25%

Destructive Impulses from +5%/+2,5% to +7,5%/+5%

And for final    

Forceful persistence:  Make it go multiplicative instead of additive. 

 

Only tiny steps with that Rev could at least be "usable". No broken or "overly good" builds.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Virdo.1540

[Zenith.7301]

For how little CC and utility the spec has, on top of the fact it's a pure melee range spec, this power spec should be above at least power virtuoso, which has considerable ranged flexibility as a power spec.

 

It's also a single dodge spec. The risk has to be in accordance to the reward.

 

The damage just isn't there.

 

Catalyst's Hammer air #2 is doing about the same amount of damage on a target as Requiem on a tiny fraction of the cooldown.

 

Spear of Archemorus is unacceptable for how long it takes to cast, is single target, is an elite skill, and has the largest energy cost.

[Howluffu.7259]

Delete rev, please. I don't want to suffer anymore. If it is not there I can forget it better.

[NonNonBiyori.1428]

Vindicator would've been a great power DPS spec..if they would stop making every revenant spec support oriented. Sure support is nice to help get groups but every spec that comes out dont need to be supportive. 

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, steve.2945 said:

Vindicator would've been a great power DPS spec..if they would stop making every revenant spec support oriented. Sure support is nice to help get groups but every spec that comes out dont need to be supportive. 

Do revenant players really need a 3 legend system? the issue is Victor is to much support compared with Arch and Victor scales amazing with potato stats :) 

When i notice a vindicator i have seen more support minstrell(or something similiar) Vindicators on wvw suporting condi tanks than any other setup (usually teams of 6-10ish).

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[phokus.8934]

The damage from Vindicator specifically feels rather weak.

[Mithrilos.8036]

I've created a Renegade Revenant, and I'm using it often now. To be honest apart a little tweak here and here, I don't see really whats wrong with Renegade and I will mainly talk about this spec.

Shortbow is quite brutal, or perhaps its the others weapons that are lot less powerful. MY only concern about this spec is that Razerclaw's Rage is a bit too simplist for the cost of energy, it just give you another stack of bleed for you and a few peeps, nothing really amazing and the 5sec protection buff you can add is nice but isn't reknewing itself while the skill is active so its kinda limited. It should maybe adds a 10% of damages too, to make it usefull for power centered builds (added with the bleed stack buff I mean).

For the Elite skill, the heal stack up nicely with the shiro battle scars and the renegade heal skill, with it you can totally mitigate brutal amount of condi on you as long as you shoot that is. And this is where it hurts : energy managment is still a bit of an issue for Revs, and as long as you start using a skill that constantly consume your energy.  We are not on the level of Herald. With Renegade the Soulcleave's Summit upkeep is too powerfull, you'll imediatly consume your energy with a few use of skills, remember that you need to use your secondary skills to actually make it work ? F1 F2 & F3 also consume energy, all this together makes the Elite skill upkeep unable to stay for a few second, making it nearly useless, unless you just AA your way, which then means a lots of loss of DPS.

 

But there is also very good things that people seems to forget. Revs can have a nice permenant 100% crit chance, at least managed to get it with Renegade and Herald. 

Darkrazor's Daring is an amazing skill, coupled with a few traits and a specific sigil ( the one that give 250 precision and ferocity when you CC a target ). I mean its so easy to trigger the sigil in pve, the constant spam of that smal Disrupt makes it proc the Fury trait that stack up easily while also giving you the sigil buff. Very strong for just one skill. 

 

In the end my guess is that the overall Elite spec is good, but need a little crispy things for power centered builds. 

EDIT : To upgrade this spec for more power centered build ( and other upgrade, I would :

- reduce energy costs of Razerclaw's Rage and Darkrazor's Daring to 20 and 25 respectively (instead of 25 & 30)

- add a +10% hit dmg to the Razeclaw's Rage buff

That would be a good start, even tho I still think the spec in itself is pretty usable right now

EDIT 2 : don't be shy, no need to be confused, and explain why you disagree. Because I'm giving honest review here.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[Syvaris Laskaris.5247]

2 hours ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

Stuff

The confused are probably because its well accepting that Renegade is the only reason Revenant is still relevant at this point. But even with how stacked it is/was it is slowly being pushed out of meta and nerfed (likely in a vain attempt to make Trash-indicator look good)

Edited April 15, 2022 by TheSeraphim.7413

[Mithrilos.8036]

1 hour ago, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

The confused are probably because its well accepting that Renegade is the only reason Revenant is still relevant at this point. But even with how stacked it is/was it is slowly being pushed out of meta and nerfed (likely in a vain attempt to make Trash-indicator look good)

I still believe in the Herald tbh, for the other Rev part, my worst concern are the Hammer and Jalis.

Tried to play with this weapon again, and it felt...very sub. 

Ventari is a good Legend, but a niche one, you need to be stacked up with healing stat to make it worth it in zerg, I genuinly love the idea of a mobile shield that block projectile, the orbs should have a little plus tho, they doesn't last long enough people usually don't care about them, even when you use your Elite skill, the fragments are royaly ignored by friendlies.

[Nephalem.8921]

14 hours ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

I've created a Renegade Revenant, and I'm using it often now. To be honest apart a little tweak here and here, I don't see really whats wrong with Renegade and I will mainly talk about this spec.

Shortbow is quite brutal, or perhaps its the others weapons that are lot less powerful. MY only concern about this spec is that Razerclaw's Rage is a bit too simplist for the cost of energy, it just give you another stack of bleed for you and a few peeps, nothing really amazing and the 5sec protection buff you can add is nice but isn't reknewing itself while the skill is active so its kinda limited. It should maybe adds a 10% of damages too, to make it usefull for power centered builds (added with the bleed stack buff I mean).

For the Elite skill, the heal stack up nicely with the shiro battle scars and the renegade heal skill, with it you can totally mitigate brutal amount of condi on you as long as you shoot that is. And this is where it hurts : energy managment is still a bit of an issue for Revs, and as long as you start using a skill that constantly consume your energy.  We are not on the level of Herald. With Renegade the Soulcleave's Summit upkeep is too powerfull, you'll imediatly consume your energy with a few use of skills, remember that you need to use your secondary skills to actually make it work ? F1 F2 & F3 also consume energy, all this together makes the Elite skill upkeep unable to stay for a few second, making it nearly useless, unless you just AA your way, which then means a lots of loss of DPS.

 

But there is also very good things that people seems to forget. Revs can have a nice permenant 100% crit chance, at least managed to get it with Renegade and Herald. 

Darkrazor's Daring is an amazing skill, coupled with a few traits and a specific sigil ( the one that give 250 precision and ferocity when you CC a target ). I mean its so easy to trigger the sigil in pve, the constant spam of that smal Disrupt makes it proc the Fury trait that stack up easily while also giving you the sigil buff. Very strong for just one skill. 

 

In the end my guess is that the overall Elite spec is good, but need a little crispy things for power centered builds. 

EDIT : To upgrade this spec for more power centered build ( and other upgrade, I would :

- reduce energy costs of Razerclaw's Rage and Darkrazor's Daring to 20 and 25 respectively (instead of 25 & 30)

- add a +10% hit dmg to the Razeclaw's Rage buff

That would be a good start, even tho I still think the spec in itself is pretty usable right now

EDIT 2 : don't be shy, no need to be confused, and explain why you disagree. Because I'm giving honest review here.

Razorclaws rage is a condi skill. Worth more than 3k dps on the cren build. The bleeding it applies uses the renegades stats and does almost 60k dmg with 4 allies. Completely useless on a power build at the same time. The buff wouldnt really work because you will lose the buff when it proccs with a 1sec icd. 10% on a single strike every sec basically.

Kalla elite is just useless. massive cast time and just 570hps for the duration if its triggered on cd. the skill needs a rework. 

 

[Mithrilos.8036]

11 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Razorclaws rage is a condi skill. Worth more than 3k dps on the cren build. The bleeding it applies uses the renegades stats and does almost 60k dmg with 4 allies. Completely useless on a power build at the same time. The buff wouldnt really work because you will lose the buff when it proccs with a 1sec icd. 10% on a single strike every sec basically.

Kalla elite is just useless. massive cast time and just 570hps for the duration if its triggered on cd. the skill needs a rework. 

 

What I mean is that it need something for power build, making it exclusively a condi skill, isn't really a good thing. Stucking Renegades with short bow only, isn't a good thing ( or condi weapons only ). i see Razorclaws Rage as the renegade buff skill, so I fastly thought about the 10% dmg, but it could be anything else idk. as long as it provide something good for power builds.

 

For the elite skill, if it is just a matter on numbers and not mechanics, then its just a matter of balance, need a buff in those numbers then. Also again , I believe its stacking nicely with other trait and skills. But I understand if it feels sub tier, my thought is that the devs probably thought about a way of sustaining yourself without really healing. The fact that also "life stealing can't crit" doesn't help too in the dmg table.

[Jthug.9506]

Imo the community is looking at this the wrong way. Power vindicator, to be optimal, needs banners, spotter and assassin’s presence from another revenant. In this configuration power vindicator can push out 40k. Using vindicator as a source of ap is imo a pretty huge compromise and far from ideal.