Untamed - My thoughts now that I'm platinum & advice to other sPvPers

[Project exa.3204]

I've been one of the harshest critics of untamed, but I was committed this season to playing nothing but it. I was also committed to playing hammer since I was convinced the optimal build would somehow incorporate hammer. I placed in silver 2(3-7 in placements) this season because I was trying all kinds of different builds to see what worked best for my playstyle, and finally I settled on Greatsword / Hammer. 

 

This is another longer post, so I'll start off with the things I think can still be done to improve Untamed:

• Balance Recommendations
• Hammer skills when unleashed pet still needs to be buffed. It's still just too weak to be playing for long, even defensively. There has to be a better tradeoff than the up to 100%+ damage reduction (in the case of Thump vs Unleashed Thump).
• I'd even be content if Thump was buffed and Unleashed Thump was nerfed.
• The last attack on hammer #1 should be doing more...it's just weak and promotes the non-usage of the last actual chain attack. 
  • Ideally it should have some kind of defensive thing like vigor or a block, or an offensive thing like weakness or blind...anything really.
• Pets still seem weaker than they should be, given the spec. It doesn't need to be a major buff, just something extra for speccing into the Untamed traitline at all vs playing core or something else. 
  • Vow of the Unleashed is the easiest thing to modify to "You and your pet _____ while unleashed" because the damage and defense modifiers don't actually apply to pets. 
  • I still think other skills like Restorative Strikes also need to apply to "You and your pet" 
  • I also still think there needs to be a better way to bring pets back into action faster, especially to bring non-standard pets into play. 
• Natures Shield needs to be slightly better for it to be more viable. Their barrier is kind of weak and not worth really speccing too heavily in. 
• Making the radius of Rending Vines slightly larger will make Corrupting Vines much more playable. With a radius of 180, the only reason an Untamed would spec into this is if they probably wanted the boon removal on unleashed ambush. 
• Perilous Gift needs to be just a little better to be more viable. Right now what it promotes, is waiting until you're 90%_ dead before trying to pop your gift (to maximize your 33% missing health heal bonus)--then doing some kind of clutch combo to pull out the W. Someone better than me can probably pull it off, but the vast majority of rangers most likely can't. It needs just *a little extra something* like regen or protection or 40% heal.
  • The only way to make this more viable right now is to use spec into cantrip barriers, and for reasons above that's still less viable than anything else. 
• Pretty much everything else I think is actually fine. 
  • Untamed opens up quite a lot of options for build combinations. I found a GS/Hammer brawler to be best for my playstyle, but have seen bow or axe Untamed wrecking it. 
  • Some pets could be buffed in general to see more play (like giving additional stats to pets that have weaker #2's). This isn't inherent to Untamed though.

 

 

 

Things I've Learned / Tips for sPvP:

In general - 

• The frequency of how often you're leashing & unleashing depends on the fight that you're in. It's very adaptable. I almost always open while unleashed ranger, then switch up depending on what I'm fighting. S
• Unleashed pets skills are incredibly versatile. Really take advantage of leashing / unleashing to get the maximum effect of your pets. 
  • Unleashed pet #3 blocking projectiles and giving a combo field-poison is definitely one of the best things about untamed. Use it to cancel any projectile heavy class for 5 seconds.
    • Always take advantage of the combo finishers for weakness / area weakness
  • Smokescale is absurdly powerful with untamed. You can deliver a mobile projectile block & combo field posion with smokescale's teleport. You can provide an AoE stealth with any weapon set by dropping a smokefield -> unleash pet -> rending vines. With smoke assault, you can even deliver a rending vines by switching from leashed / unleashed in the middle of the smokescales attack. I'd even go as far as to say it would probably be just a little too good if any of the changes I listed above come without an equivalent smokescale nerf. 

On the new pets

• Siege turtle - gives your team a total of 9 whole seconds of projectile block without factoring in Fervent Force for how often you can block projectiles.
• Phoenix - has the potential to be really cool, but has garbage tier vitality. I really like the versatile abilities and increased power compared to other birds, but it's got 12khp and sucks bananas for a PvP pet. This wouldn't be as much of a problem if the changes I mentioned to bring pets back into action faster was resolved. 
• Wallow - I have no idea what the use case for this pet would be. It's like the worst parts of and siamoth combined together as a supportive pe

On cantrips - 

• These are actually fine. They're not really worth barriers, but they add a lot of pzazz and flexibility for different types of builds. 

 

 

Hammer - 

• #1 thing if you're playing hammer, is that you REALLY need to know how to chain attacks while leashing / unleashing. 
  • Treat this more like a weaver. Whatever attack and mode you start out with is what will apply on hit for a given skill. With a 1 second cd on unleash you can shift in the middle of an attack to apply whatever you want to apply. Knockdown (Thump) then 20% damage boost to enemy (Unleashed Wild Swing)? 
  • Change your style up depending on what you're fighting.
    • Strike-heavy users should receive Unleashed Overbearing Smash for the blind, while spell-heavies should get Overbearing Smash for the daze. 
  • Save your leaps (like Thump / Unleashed Thump) for when you've got an ambush lined up.
    • This applies especially when you're fighting kite-heavy classes.
    • Bonus points if you can take advantage of a combo field. 
  • Since all hammer skills are AoE's, they become more effective when fighting against classes that stealth. This applies especially to trappers when you otherwise lose targeting between their traps. 

 

Greatsword / Hammer - 

I'm writing up just a little more on this combination because I found it particularly effective for me. Euratein was the first one to post the build and I just modified my runes / traits / amulets. 

• This combination really shines in team fights. It does well on sidenodes, but the best benefit you provide to teams comes from canceling or Cc'ing enemies. 
• If you're pairing greatsword with hammer, you should always be thinking about what combo you can pull off next.
  • Counterattack and Hit Bash before swapping to hammer give 2x different ways to take advantage of the 20% multiplier on Unleashed Wild Swing. 
  • You have 2x leaps available (between swapping weapons) to close the distance before an ambush.
  • If you use Unnatural Traversal (which I recommend for Gs/H) you have a third way to deliver whatever payload you want. You can time this to deliver anything from a Maul at 900 range, a daze or interrupt, followed by an ambush. I pretty much always use this when unleashed ranger for the might, but if you're in defensive mode you can shadowstep to a far away enemy for regen as well.
  • Forest's Fortification should almost always be followed by some kind of AoE attack to reduce the cd's as much as possible. Fervent Force helps offset this even if you can't. 
  • Fervent Force with Gs/H gives up to 12 seconds cooldown on your skills. Counterattack, Hit Bash, Thump, Overbearing Smash, each reduce the cd's of your equipped skills by 2 seconds. 
    • There are countless rotations that can be run off this premise & reduce the cd's of the things you're trying to combo from

 

-Eros of Ascalon

•  

Edited April 13, 2022 by Project exa.3204
Fixing Formatting

[Dadnir.5038]

A welcome gift of knowledge. Thank you.

[Mell.4873]

Yeah thanks for the insights, I do agree with most of your thoughts about Untamed. 

Perilous Gift is a tricky one to balance I do agree the heal needs to be a bit more forgiving when to don't pop it at 0 health maybe so I agree with the 40% off missing health. Other than that I think the heal is amazing although I only use it in WvW. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Mell.4873

[BumboJumbo.1308]

Interesting read!

The wallow could be best used in combination with short bow or axe ambush skill in mind so you can immob with short bow 4 or axe into wallow f3, then f2. This combo could mean that that the pet does a bit of condi damage and can crowd control reliably.

Also, I wonder if adding a pet specific buff on the hammer could buff the pet in some way. Maybe if you use hammer 5 the pet gets a buff that gives 10% damage bonus on it's next 3 attacks. Or maybe it can apply cripple on it's next few attacks so the ranger can catch who ever is moving in melee.

[mistsim.2748]

This class is so incredibly dumb. The epitomy of terrible design. Whether it's effective or not, who cares. Keep polishing that kitten.

Edited April 13, 2022 by mistsim.2748

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

While I feel like this can work, there's probably a multitude of core ranger sets that work just as well if not better as untamed. It's good at burst, but so is power soulbeast in every mode. Maybe it's just me playing with it, but I feel like I end up using everything on one fight with untamed and have little to get out with, whereas on soulbeast I feel I can always pack something, especially with pet flexibility with the stat boosts and unique skills.

 

Your analysis on the pets-

 

Phoenix I entirely agree with in all modes. It's better to treat it like a wyvern than a bird, low bulk, occasionally high damage. They need to make the F2 a single line blast like the Icebrood Saga special action keys in strikes from the pylons, shorten the cooldown, and cut the damage down to make it remotely useful.

 

Siege turtle I feel doesn't provide enough outside of the bubble- it never goes for its melee attacks because its auto is the siege cannon, making it miss 90% of the time. If running untamed you'd be better off with a bear for a defensive pet since it actually has defensive tools, can more often connect its attacks, and has a self invulnerability, in addition to the unleash bubble.

 

Wallow is a very standard pet with none of the buggy drawbacks of core pets (i.e. alacrity or quickness don't work, they can't keep up with a moving target too well, etc). A better warthog.

 

No idea why you skipped over white tiger, but its worse as of right now than regular tiger I feel just because it's unique moves that are different from other cats have too much startup or end lag to make use. A worse HoT tiger. 

[Project exa.3204]

4 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

No idea why you skipped over white tiger, but its worse as of right now than regular tiger I feel just because it's unique moves that are different from other cats have too much startup or end lag to make use. A worse HoT tiger. 

Totally forgot about white tiger, that's how forgettable it is. Also agreed it's just a worse HoT tiger. You get an aegis and a shadowstep as a tradeoff against regular tiger's leap and big bleed attack. The shadowstep is cool in theory, but it's weak compared to smokescale's and not worth taking. 

 

4 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

While I feel like this can work, there's probably a multitude of core ranger sets that work just as well if not better as untamed. It's good at burst, but so is power soulbeast in every mode. Maybe it's just me playing with it, but I feel like I end up using everything on one fight with untamed and have little to get out with, whereas on soulbeast I feel I can always pack something, especially with pet flexibility with the stat boosts and unique skills.

 

 

I actually find myself saving my skills more than blowing all cds immediately. My utility bar is pretty much all situational skills, while I'm mostly just fighting with my weapons or through my pet control.

[&DQQgKwgvSBV5AHgAExsTGxkblgG7ALgADxsPGy4vKSsAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=] if you want to see where the differences might be? Hope this helps!

-Eros of Ascalon 

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, mistsim.2748 said:

This class is so incredibly dumb. The epitomy of terrible design. Whether it's effective or not, who cares. Keep polishing that kitten.

The class design was rushed a bit since the ambush mechanic was added last minute but I do believe it has legs as being a better core Ranger. 

The Untamed pet much stronger in PvP and it offers Ranger more options for engaging combat. I mean the access to super speed alone is amazing in WvW. Where the best way to avoid damage is just to move.

I feel like over all with its synergy with core Ranger is can be great but it really needs some traits reworked, like OP points out barrier on cantrips is pretty useless and anything else would be better. It's no Soulbeast dps but neither was core Ranger. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Amadeus.5687]

Cheers for starting a topic about untamed in sPvP, I tbh feel it's being overlooked a lot.
Also cool to get tips and tricks from the power side of the table, haven't played power untamed much yet.

I will add my experience this season, where I have been sitting in plat 1/2 doing the season solo Q
(Beside when I tanked my score testing out the buffs to Mesmer xD)
I have been playing condition Untamed, which I in special feel are being sleept on and find rock solid in the current meta.
Condition untamed focus more around the pet being unleashed and not the ranger, cause you don't need the bonus strike dmg, you rather want the reduced dmg taken.
A key part of getting success is really firing off your ambush skills every 10th second, both because they are powerful, but mostly for the sustain. 
 

On 4/13/2022 at 5:25 AM, Project exa.3204 said:

Making the radius of Rending Vines slightly larger will make Corrupting Vines much more playable. With a radius of 180, the only reason an Untamed would spec into this is if they probably wanted the boon removal on unleashed ambush. 

I use Rending Vines in my build, and it's amazing. The extra boon removal on ambush skills are amazing and the corruption gives you cover conditions or more pressure. I wouldn't mind a larger radius, but I feel this trait is super strong when you use it on weapons with AoE Ambush attacks.

Blinding Outburst is also insane and I can't play Untamed without it now. It turns Venomous Outburst into a 10 sec CD instant application AoE blind, that you can use while CC'ed yourself.
You can use it for sooo many things; Preventing follow up attacks people use when they get you CC'ed, blinding downed enemies CC skill when stomping, messing up enemies attack combo's on friends ect.

Also, I asume most people know it, but the pet unleashed skills for some reason counts as "your" skill CD. So when you use Fervent Force as I do with lots of CC, you can reduce CD on the unleashed skills.

About pets:
Iboga as a pet is beastly with untamed, cause of Consuming Bites auto attack  You are able to stack so many different conditions, in special if you time unleashed pet skills on CC'ed targets. Have been able to put 7-8 different condition on a target alone.
It's a glass cannon tho, so I mostly use it in 1vs1 situations or to pull a target out of the teamfight and then hammer it.

Turtle is kittening amaaaaazing for a condition build. But the AI on it is horrible, it stops up doing nothing for upwards to 5 seconds and I just hope they soon fix that kitten. The auto attack is also mostly useless missing 90% of the time as you said.
But even then; It's bubble is amazing, it's suuuper tanky so you can actually send it in doing a temafight and doing the unleashed skills and it's CC attack is a knockback, which means you can use it to knock people down from high ground or downed people on point out of the point. It's also AoE so it's able to CC everyone trying to ress the target.
Can't wait for the Ai to be fixed.

Wallow I'm still testing and trying out every now and then. I want to like it and on the paper it should be kinda good for a condition dmg build. It stacks conditions an AoE Knockback attack aswell. But I haven't yet had much succes with it and I feels it's a mix of slow attack animations, a very weak auto attack and low condition dmg. Feels like it shouldn't have been a supporitve pet.

Jacarada is also amazing, in special for  teamfights and downed players.

In general I feel there is a loooot of pets that can work, depending on how good your Micro skills are

About the meta
Condition Untamed, atleast my build, also hardcore shuts down core guardian support. T
he amount of hard and soft CC, boon rip and condition dmg pressure you can apply wrecks them. Countless times I have stripped stability and interrupt Signet of Mercy ress.

My build have so far been a solid duelist 1vs1 and team fight DPS. Often doing 300.000-400.000 dmg in a match.  
It's also able to shut down mechanist side noderes, cause you rip their boons and spew out a lot of condition dmg and CC, which they aren't that good at handling.

Condition untamed also complelty dominate the revanent meta builds, which stand no chance against the amount of CC and condition you spew out. Even better you can blind, weakness and eat theyr fury and might, really tanking their dmg.

And while necromancers are super strudy vs condition dmg builds, you can still really mess them up when you chain combo CC and high condition pressure on them, they are very weak to CC. Likewise Enveloping Haze + Turtle pet can compelty shut down core necro and Harbinger shroud. Also Lich form for that matter, can't wait for 2vs2 or 3vs3 season this time where I finally can say "F you" to the lich form spam.

Like overall I'm really happy about the condition dmg untamed playstyle and there is a lot more I could say. Guess I could do a topic about the builds I have played doing the season if people are interested in that

[Androuil.1963]

On 4/14/2022 at 11:37 AM, Amadeus.5687 said:

Guess I could do a topic about the builds I have played doing the season if people are interested in that

Yes please 😍

[Avatar.3568]

Guys, I tell you know

 

Untamed is super strong, play it as a roamer, hammer might need some updates but the spec itself is rly rly strong, at least in pvp

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

On 4/14/2022 at 4:37 AM, Amadeus.5687 said:

Cheers for starting a topic about untamed in sPvP, I tbh feel it's being overlooked a lot.
Also cool to get tips and tricks from the power side of the table, haven't played power untamed much yet.

I will add my experience this season, where I have been sitting in plat 1/2 doing the season solo Q
(Beside when I tanked my score testing out the buffs to Mesmer xD)
I have been playing condition Untamed, which I in special feel are being sleept on and find rock solid in the current meta.
Condition untamed focus more around the pet being unleashed and not the ranger, cause you don't need the bonus strike dmg, you rather want the reduced dmg taken.
A key part of getting success is really firing off your ambush skills every 10th second, both because they are powerful, but mostly for the sustain. 
 

I use Rending Vines in my build, and it's amazing. The extra boon removal on ambush skills are amazing and the corruption gives you cover conditions or more pressure. I wouldn't mind a larger radius, but I feel this trait is super strong when you use it on weapons with AoE Ambush attacks.

Blinding Outburst is also insane and I can't play Untamed without it now. It turns Venomous Outburst into a 10 sec CD instant application AoE blind, that you can use while CC'ed yourself.
You can use it for sooo many things; Preventing follow up attacks people use when they get you CC'ed, blinding downed enemies CC skill when stomping, messing up enemies attack combo's on friends ect.

Also, I asume most people know it, but the pet unleashed skills for some reason counts as "your" skill CD. So when you use Fervent Force as I do with lots of CC, you can reduce CD on the unleashed skills.

About pets:
Iboga as a pet is beastly with untamed, cause of Consuming Bites auto attack  You are able to stack so many different conditions, in special if you time unleashed pet skills on CC'ed targets. Have been able to put 7-8 different condition on a target alone.
It's a glass cannon tho, so I mostly use it in 1vs1 situations or to pull a target out of the teamfight and then hammer it.

Turtle is kittening amaaaaazing for a condition build. But the AI on it is horrible, it stops up doing nothing for upwards to 5 seconds and I just hope they soon fix that kitten. The auto attack is also mostly useless missing 90% of the time as you said.
But even then; It's bubble is amazing, it's suuuper tanky so you can actually send it in doing a temafight and doing the unleashed skills and it's CC attack is a knockback, which means you can use it to knock people down from high ground or downed people on point out of the point. It's also AoE so it's able to CC everyone trying to ress the target.
Can't wait for the Ai to be fixed.

Wallow I'm still testing and trying out every now and then. I want to like it and on the paper it should be kinda good for a condition dmg build. It stacks conditions an AoE Knockback attack aswell. But I haven't yet had much succes with it and I feels it's a mix of slow attack animations, a very weak auto attack and low condition dmg. Feels like it shouldn't have been a supporitve pet.

Jacarada is also amazing, in special for  teamfights and downed players.

In general I feel there is a loooot of pets that can work, depending on how good your Micro skills are

About the meta
Condition Untamed, atleast my build, also hardcore shuts down core guardian support. T
he amount of hard and soft CC, boon rip and condition dmg pressure you can apply wrecks them. Countless times I have stripped stability and interrupt Signet of Mercy ress.

My build have so far been a solid duelist 1vs1 and team fight DPS. Often doing 300.000-400.000 dmg in a match.  
It's also able to shut down mechanist side noderes, cause you rip their boons and spew out a lot of condition dmg and CC, which they aren't that good at handling.

Condition untamed also complelty dominate the revanent meta builds, which stand no chance against the amount of CC and condition you spew out. Even better you can blind, weakness and eat theyr fury and might, really tanking their dmg.

And while necromancers are super strudy vs condition dmg builds, you can still really mess them up when you chain combo CC and high condition pressure on them, they are very weak to CC. Likewise Enveloping Haze + Turtle pet can compelty shut down core necro and Harbinger shroud. Also Lich form for that matter, can't wait for 2vs2 or 3vs3 season this time where I finally can say "F you" to the lich form spam.

Like overall I'm really happy about the condition dmg untamed playstyle and there is a lot more I could say. Guess I could do a topic about the builds I have played doing the season if people are interested in that

I am interested, plz post the builds 

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

On 4/12/2022 at 11:25 PM, Project exa.3204 said:

I've been one of the harshest critics of untamed, but I was committed this season to playing nothing but it. I was also committed to playing hammer since I was convinced the optimal build would somehow incorporate hammer. I placed in silver 2(3-7 in placements) this season because I was trying all kinds of different builds to see what worked best for my playstyle, and finally I settled on Greatsword / Hammer. 

 

This is another longer post, so I'll start off with the things I think can still be done to improve Untamed:

• Balance Recommendations
• Hammer skills when unleashed pet still needs to be buffed. It's still just too weak to be playing for long, even defensively. There has to be a better tradeoff than the up to 100%+ damage reduction (in the case of Thump vs Unleashed Thump).
• I'd even be content if Thump was buffed and Unleashed Thump was nerfed.
• The last attack on hammer #1 should be doing more...it's just weak and promotes the non-usage of the last actual chain attack. 
  • Ideally it should have some kind of defensive thing like vigor or a block, or an offensive thing like weakness or blind...anything really.
• Pets still seem weaker than they should be, given the spec. It doesn't need to be a major buff, just something extra for speccing into the Untamed traitline at all vs playing core or something else. 
  • Vow of the Unleashed is the easiest thing to modify to "You and your pet _____ while unleashed" because the damage and defense modifiers don't actually apply to pets. 
  • I still think other skills like Restorative Strikes also need to apply to "You and your pet" 
  • I also still think there needs to be a better way to bring pets back into action faster, especially to bring non-standard pets into play. 
• Natures Shield needs to be slightly better for it to be more viable. Their barrier is kind of weak and not worth really speccing too heavily in. 
• Making the radius of Rending Vines slightly larger will make Corrupting Vines much more playable. With a radius of 180, the only reason an Untamed would spec into this is if they probably wanted the boon removal on unleashed ambush. 
• Perilous Gift needs to be just a little better to be more viable. Right now what it promotes, is waiting until you're 90%_ dead before trying to pop your gift (to maximize your 33% missing health heal bonus)--then doing some kind of clutch combo to pull out the W. Someone better than me can probably pull it off, but the vast majority of rangers most likely can't. It needs just *a little extra something* like regen or protection or 40% heal.
  • The only way to make this more viable right now is to use spec into cantrip barriers, and for reasons above that's still less viable than anything else. 
• Pretty much everything else I think is actually fine. 
  • Untamed opens up quite a lot of options for build combinations. I found a GS/Hammer brawler to be best for my playstyle, but have seen bow or axe Untamed wrecking it. 
  • Some pets could be buffed in general to see more play (like giving additional stats to pets that have weaker #2's). This isn't inherent to Untamed though.

 

 

 

Things I've Learned / Tips for sPvP:

In general - 

• The frequency of how often you're leashing & unleashing depends on the fight that you're in. It's very adaptable. I almost always open while unleashed ranger, then switch up depending on what I'm fighting. S
• Unleashed pets skills are incredibly versatile. Really take advantage of leashing / unleashing to get the maximum effect of your pets. 
  • Unleashed pet #3 blocking projectiles and giving a combo field-poison is definitely one of the best things about untamed. Use it to cancel any projectile heavy class for 5 seconds.
    • Always take advantage of the combo finishers for weakness / area weakness
  • Smokescale is absurdly powerful with untamed. You can deliver a mobile projectile block & combo field posion with smokescale's teleport. You can provide an AoE stealth with any weapon set by dropping a smokefield -> unleash pet -> rending vines. With smoke assault, you can even deliver a rending vines by switching from leashed / unleashed in the middle of the smokescales attack. I'd even go as far as to say it would probably be just a little too good if any of the changes I listed above come without an equivalent smokescale nerf. 

On the new pets

• Siege turtle - gives your team a total of 9 whole seconds of projectile block without factoring in Fervent Force for how often you can block projectiles.
• Phoenix - has the potential to be really cool, but has garbage tier vitality. I really like the versatile abilities and increased power compared to other birds, but it's got 12khp and sucks bananas for a PvP pet. This wouldn't be as much of a problem if the changes I mentioned to bring pets back into action faster was resolved. 
• Wallow - I have no idea what the use case for this pet would be. It's like the worst parts of and siamoth combined together as a supportive pe

On cantrips - 

• These are actually fine. They're not really worth barriers, but they add a lot of pzazz and flexibility for different types of builds. 

 

 

Hammer - 

• #1 thing if you're playing hammer, is that you REALLY need to know how to chain attacks while leashing / unleashing. 
  • Treat this more like a weaver. Whatever attack and mode you start out with is what will apply on hit for a given skill. With a 1 second cd on unleash you can shift in the middle of an attack to apply whatever you want to apply. Knockdown (Thump) then 20% damage boost to enemy (Unleashed Wild Swing)? 
  • Change your style up depending on what you're fighting.
    • Strike-heavy users should receive Unleashed Overbearing Smash for the blind, while spell-heavies should get Overbearing Smash for the daze. 
  • Save your leaps (like Thump / Unleashed Thump) for when you've got an ambush lined up.
    • This applies especially when you're fighting kite-heavy classes.
    • Bonus points if you can take advantage of a combo field. 
  • Since all hammer skills are AoE's, they become more effective when fighting against classes that stealth. This applies especially to trappers when you otherwise lose targeting between their traps. 

 

Greatsword / Hammer - 

I'm writing up just a little more on this combination because I found it particularly effective for me. Euratein was the first one to post the build and I just modified my runes / traits / amulets. 

• This combination really shines in team fights. It does well on sidenodes, but the best benefit you provide to teams comes from canceling or Cc'ing enemies. 
• If you're pairing greatsword with hammer, you should always be thinking about what combo you can pull off next.
  • Counterattack and Hit Bash before swapping to hammer give 2x different ways to take advantage of the 20% multiplier on Unleashed Wild Swing. 
  • You have 2x leaps available (between swapping weapons) to close the distance before an ambush.
  • If you use Unnatural Traversal (which I recommend for Gs/H) you have a third way to deliver whatever payload you want. You can time this to deliver anything from a Maul at 900 range, a daze or interrupt, followed by an ambush. I pretty much always use this when unleashed ranger for the might, but if you're in defensive mode you can shadowstep to a far away enemy for regen as well.
  • Forest's Fortification should almost always be followed by some kind of AoE attack to reduce the cd's as much as possible. Fervent Force helps offset this even if you can't. 
  • Fervent Force with Gs/H gives up to 12 seconds cooldown on your skills. Counterattack, Hit Bash, Thump, Overbearing Smash, each reduce the cd's of your equipped skills by 2 seconds. 
    • There are countless rotations that can be run off this premise & reduce the cd's of the things you're trying to combo from

 

-Eros of Ascalon

•  

Mind posting the build?

[Project exa.3204]

1 hour ago, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

Mind posting the build?

Certainly! I posted the template in a different comment somewhere, but I have it included below. At the end of the season I ended up in the top 250, but I feel like I could have gone even further if I wasn't so lazy!
 

Hammer / Greatsword Untamed

[&DQQgKwgvSBV5AHgAExsTGxkblgG7ALgADxsPGy4TKSsAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]

Marauder Amulet + Rune of the Eagle

Cleansing and exploitation sigils on hammer, cleansing and exposure on greatsword

-Eros of Ascalon

[wolfyrik.2017]

On 4/14/2022 at 12:57 AM, Mell.4873 said:

The class design was rushed a bit since the ambush mechanic was added last minute but I do believe it has legs as being a better core Ranger. 

The Untamed pet much stronger in PvP and it offers Ranger more options for engaging combat. I mean the access to super speed alone is amazing in WvW. Where the best way to avoid damage is just to move.

I feel like over all with its synergy with core Ranger is can be great but it really needs some traits reworked, like OP points out barrier on cantrips is pretty useless and anything else would be better. It's no Soulbeast dps but neither was core Ranger. 

This is exactly the problem. E=specs aren't supposed to be direct upgrades. That's why the trade-offs were put in. The devs have seemingly forgotten their own excuses for a multitude of class nerfs. Where's the tradeoff for running untamed or catalyst? I mean, I guess you could argue that the festering-sewage animation from unleashing is a trade-off? The fact that untamed is basically identical to core with some cr*p thrown on it, literally and figuratively, proves how badly thought out and rushed the whole spec is.

 

Love the idea of the hammer. Implementation sucks. Love the idea of a bruiser. Why does it enforce the pet when the pet dies in situations where you need a bruiser? So it's a pet spec? Then why doesn't it buff the pet? Why does it actively make the pet weaker than core by removing some of the autos?

Edited April 26, 2022 by wolfyrik.2017

[Eurantien.4632]

I played this variation and some other variations primarily this season. I ended the season in the top 10, mostly solo queue. I played Valkyrie amulet though.

Things you can shuffle around: Can go Healing Spring and Cage utility. Can then change Command trait for blind trait in BM. Then take traveler runes or go 2x birds or 1x bird for swiftness.

I think the cantrip barrier trait is probably the strongest of the first tier traits. You can run any of the middle traits. I tried taking the boon corrupt/removal and while this can make some 1v1s more accessible it just seems overall worse than quickness on hammer CC.

@Project exa.3204

How do you feel about hammer having no defensives on it? I feel like hammer auto do need buffs, something to make it worthwhile to go through. Mostly, hammer 4 needs to be changed in my opinion. I'd like a defensive on the normal side (preferably a block or something or worst case scenario barrier on hit) and some sort of offensive on the unleashed side. Something like a pull, a throw, a ranged immob or something to pressure people (preferable something that also works up z-axis). I hate casting hammer 4. It takes a long time (1s cast) for not a lot to show for it.

[Amadeus.5687]

3 hours ago, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

I am interested, plz post the builds 

 

On 4/22/2022 at 9:59 AM, Andruil.3479 said:

Yes please 😍

Since people wanna see:
The main build I used doing the season where this one:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEU6MssC2HzjRxOxy3JN+Vi43D-z5YfGZKD6VJowB

It where the better roaming around option and "safer" since I didn't have to go into the team fights unless I wanted to for doing dmg.

 

I also played around with:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAUd/lVwsYeMK2JW+OpxvSE/eA-z5YfGZKD6VBowB
Which had some insane team fight dmg going, but only used it if my team had a support

Lastly I played around with the following for dueling and side node:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAUdjlVwWZeMK2JWePpxvSE/cA-z5YfGZKD6VBowB
sometimes swapping away from the extra stun break depending on the match up ect.

For the pets I ended up pretty much always using Iboga, but tried a lot of different as said in my former post. Turtle and Jarcande being my fav runner ups, but plenty of good options.

The worst match up for the two first builds are heavy CC builds, which funny enough often meant other Untamed builds 😅

[Project exa.3204]

1 hour ago, Eurantien.4632 said:

I played this variation and some other variations primarily this season. I ended the season in the top 10, mostly solo queue. I played Valkyrie amulet though.

I saw you beasted it this season! I tried tons of different combos throughout the season but found myself using GS/Hammer the most. LB/GS was also strong but I just felt like for LB/GS I'd rather go a different specialization. 

 

1 hour ago, Eurantien.4632 said:

I think the cantrip barrier trait is probably the strongest of the first tier traits. You can run any of the middle traits. I tried taking the boon corrupt/removal and while this can make some 1v1s more accessible it just seems overall worse than quickness on hammer CC.
 

I feel like the cantrip barrier still needs to be a little stronger. I like the #1 because of its 1 second cd and potential to apply lots of weakness, or vulnerability stacks right before a nice ambush. The #3 I didn't really try because it just seemed overshadowed by the other two. Also agreed middle traits are flexible, I went with the #1 again because I was leaning hard into the disables, which I think should still apply on pet disable too (but that might be a bit of a stretch)

 

1 hour ago, Eurantien.4632 said:

How do you feel about hammer having no defensives on it? I feel like hammer auto do need buffs, something to make it worthwhile to go through. Mostly, hammer 4 needs to be changed in my opinion. I'd like a defensive on the normal side (preferably a block or something or worst case scenario barrier on hit) and some sort of offensive on the unleashed side. Something like a pull, a throw, a ranged immob or something to pressure people (preferable something that also works up z-axis). I hate casting hammer 4. It takes a long time (1s cast) for not a lot to show for it.

 

 

Hammer having weak defensives is one of the biggest drawbacks to the new weapon. Overreliance on disables doesn't seem like a fair tradeoff for the lack of native defensive support. I agree with both sentiments about both forms needing some kind of tweak. It just needs a little extra oomph for more people to pick it up. A block would be most ideal, the last attack on the #1 seems like the best place to do it if not reworking one of the other skills.

 

Hammer #4 is my least favorite skill. I agree it definitely needs something extra. Needs a damage buff when pet unleashed for certain. When pet unleashed it applies 3 conditions, including immob, but none of them contribute to disables. Ideally I'd like to see something like a disable thrown in (such as stun in first hit radius 120) to make it more worth it. When ranger unleashed, the 20% damage multiplier is cool....but I also agree that it needs something to be more reliable. 

 

-Eros of Ascalon

[Androuil.1963]

3 hours ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

 

Since people wanna see:
The main build I used doing the season where this one:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEU6MssC2HzjRxOxy3JN+Vi43D-z5YfGZKD6VJowB

It where the better roaming around option and "safer" since I didn't have to go into the team fights unless I wanted to for doing dmg.

 

I also played around with:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAUd/lVwsYeMK2JW+OpxvSE/eA-z5YfGZKD6VBowB
Which had some insane team fight dmg going, but only used it if my team had a support

Lastly I played around with the following for dueling and side node:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAUdjlVwWZeMK2JWePpxvSE/cA-z5YfGZKD6VBowB
sometimes swapping away from the extra stun break depending on the match up ect.

For the pets I ended up pretty much always using Iboga, but tried a lot of different as said in my former post. Turtle and Jarcande being my fav runner ups, but plenty of good options.

The worst match up for the two first builds are heavy CC builds, which funny enough often meant other Untamed builds 😅

Thank you so much for sharing! Your build is quite similar to mine.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAEdjlVUwCTbeZtpo2ZoWeP1x/SE/eA-zZoOkGVAZKF6YEowB
I opted for GS for some defense and evasion, maybe some cleave at points and use Protect Me to give me some more defensive capabilities!

I mainly use mine for sPVP and started trying it a bit at some roaming. I'm enjoying it quite a lot atm!

Edited April 26, 2022 by Andruil.3479
Accidentally hit enter before I was done

[Amadeus.5687]

22 hours ago, Andruil.3479 said:

Thank you so much for sharing! Your build is quite similar to mine.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAEdjlVUwCTbeZtpo2ZoWeP1x/SE/eA-zZoOkGVAZKF6YEowB
I opted for GS for some defense and evasion, maybe some cleave at points and use Protect Me to give me some more defensive capabilities!

I mainly use mine for sPVP and started trying it a bit at some roaming. I'm enjoying it quite a lot atm!

 

You have picked Light on your feet, but not using shortbow. Is that a missclick? Or are you making that work without it?

 

Greatsword on a carrion amulet is interesting, i asume in spvp you mostly do duels and side node with the build?

 

[AEFA.9035]

what's everyone's thought on Rank 55 Dragon's team comp featuring Untamed and a weird pick Willbender? with no Spectre mind you.

[Amadeus.5687]

6 hours ago, AEFA.9035 said:

what's everyone's thought on Rank 55 Dragon's team comp featuring Untamed and a weird pick Willbender? with no Spectre mind you.

 

It were pretty cool to see, were some dope fights.

 

But I were not surprised about either.

I feel Untamed have been sleept on by the broader PvP community this season.

But the tools it bring have a big potentiale in the current meta, both as power and condition.

 

The willbender were not that big a surprise after the last buffs it resived. After the patch I saw 1-2 willbender pr team in plat 1/2 rest of the season.

It replaces the roaming DPS role of the power Herald.

[Androuil.1963]

12 hours ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

You have picked Light on your feet, but not using shortbow. Is that a missclick? Or are you making that work without it?

I initially picked it by elimination, but after your comment I think it might be a mistake.
I don't really weapon swap to GS to do damage but rather to defend myself and I find  the Axe/Wh CDs pretty low anw, so Quick Draw is a bit meh for me atm. Could be viable, but haven't tried it yet.

Upon further inspection, I think Vicious Quarry might be the best option here, as I don't use a shortbow and condi duration is not something I care about atm which is essentially what I'm getting with Light on your Feet without shortbow.
 

 

12 hours ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

Greatsword on a carrion amulet is interesting, i asume in spvp you mostly do duels and side node with the build?

 

Unfortunately, I've only been playing with this build in conquest for a few days and the conquest season ended so can't report on extensive time, but when I was playing I did indulge in side-noding and duels but also joined team fights.

What are your thoughts on the ideal pets. I find the condi ones(Iboga, Birds) a bit too squishy... Especially in WvW!




 

[Amadeus.5687]

8 hours ago, Andruil.3479 said:

I initially picked it by elimination, but after your comment I think it might be a mistake.
I don't really weapon swap to GS to do damage but rather to defend myself and I find  the Axe/Wh CDs pretty low anw, so Quick Draw is a bit meh for me atm. Could be viable, but haven't tried it yet.

Upon further inspection, I think Vicious Quarry might be the best option here, as I don't use a shortbow and condi duration is not something I care about atm which is essentially what I'm getting with Light on your Feet without shortbow.
 

 

Unfortunately, I've only been playing with this build in conquest for a few days and the conquest season ended so can't report on extensive time, but when I was playing I did indulge in side-noding and duels but also joined team fights.

What are your thoughts on the ideal pets. I find the condi ones(Iboga, Birds) a bit too squishy... Especially in WvW!




 

I'd say that Quick Draw is by far the better pick for you 🙂
You don't need long CD's for it to be usefull (While you ofc feel the effect more), but it's also just very strong for getting burst attacks off fast, like Splitblade or Winter's Bite. 
With dagger off hand Stalker's Strike is a great skill to use Quick Draw on for more evade ect.
For greatsword it's great for Swoop if you wanna create some distance really fast, letting you use it in fast succession to each other.
It's also very powerfull for Counter Attack, letting you get off your defensive options faster. 

For WvW pets just sucks in zergs. For roaming and dueling I'd say Iboga can be used for burst setup. Jarcanda or Smokescale are also good options (smokescale for the Smoke Field)
But the primary pet should be a high HP pool pet, like the turtle. So it can actually live and stick around for some of the fighting.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Since we're straying into WvW territory, I'll say I don't see the point for hammerless builds like this when you can just run druid for way better results.  

Trying a true untamed build (with hammer, cantrips, etc.) in WvW is turning out to be an exercise in pain, as even trying to find a hybrid solution is difficult.  

Secondary pets are an issue too because smokescale outperforms by a country mile, and the EoD pets have the responsiveness on swap issue.  Some of the CC pets (E. Wyvern) would be amazing if their skills wern't slow and / or glitched out.