Nature of Competitive gaming :Do you think Pvp Ranked makes you toxic or You are toxic in general?

[Carnage.6751]

I wanna have conversation with my fellow pvp players.Do you think game causing to toxicity or toxic people coming to ranked?İn every competitive game there are toxic people and some of them pretty good people.irl.Fmo losing streaks or unfair matchmaking cause some toxicity in the game.Some people see pvp only material farm, some people see rank .That's why  many hardcore pvp players left to pvp.I like to learn your thoughts...

Edited April 15, 2022 by Carnage.6751

[Sahne.6950]

The uncontrollable nature of this gamemode makes it frustrating for alot of people.

You heavily rely on your Teammates to do smartrotations and help where they are needed. Yet you can not choose who your teammates are. People tend to get upset about situations they can not control.

The answer to the question: The structure of the mode brings out the worst in some people. People with a short fuse will find themselves fuming rather fast. But people that do not have these tendencies will not suddenly start being toxic because of the mode. It just triggers people that already have problems with this.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Avatar.3568]

75% people 25% games fault, people that are chill will stay chill, people that are toxic are going rage mode. 

The 25% comes from the game that nothing is happening or bad metals stay for a while. 

In gw2 its both combined since years

[viquing.8254]

I think toxicity is contagious.

Mean I was all kind and friendly 10 years ago, now I'm raging pretty easily about balance. (not against player in game though.)

That said, top PvP players were more toxic IMO back in the beginning of the game than now where they mostly play for fun.

[Mik.3401]

Basically this is a competitive game mode with only 1 (!) type of match to choose from, so basically you get no choice.

Your success depends on other group members as much as on your input, so if you are teamed with a newbie you are practically doomed unless you try hard on a broken build abusing game mechanics.

and finally you only progress toward making legendary armor etc. By winning, so each time you are set to loose it feels like wasting time - let’s be real who plays pvp for pure pleasure? I’d say maybe 10% of people?

 

[Spellhunter.9675]

I don't like "toxic" as a term. It is too vague.

But I think there are 2 factors. First one - I guess competitive game modes attract more toxic players. 

Second factor, it can be subjective, but I feel like I am trapped in gw2 pvp. I know for sure, GW2 PvP has one of the best foundation amongst other MMORPG. And it can bring a lot of joy. But due to known reasons it is not as good as it can be. And it is became worse every month. I still have unrealistic hopes for it and keep playing while struggling to having fun. This makes me angry and toxic.

[Carnage.6751]

44 minutes ago, viquing.8254 said:

I think toxicity is contagious.

Mean I was all kind and friendly 10 years ago, now I'm raging pretty easily about balance. (not against player in game though.)

That said, top PvP players were more toxic IMO back in the beginning of the game than now where they mostly play for fun.

Yeah I can relate.Im not much a meta chaser player and playing good with niche classes very fun for me.But it is obvious classes in this game not made for balance.Especially classes like Reaper,Harbinger  design for power fantasy.This game have F2P class balancing.And if you don't buy new expansion you are out of meta. Look at Metabattle all GREAT tier classes are new expansion.Giving Second life Bar to necromancers have no logic.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Carnage.6751

[Sahne.6950]

23 minutes ago, Carnage.6751 said:

.And if you don't buy new expansion you are out of meta.

Look at Metabattle all GREAT class classes are new expansion

*cough*   2 out of the 5 "meta" picks are Core   *cough*

"Look at Metabattle all GREAT class classes are new expansion"

just 4 out of the 12 "Great" are EoD specs.... And if you mean expansions in general... There is CoreValkyrieRanger and Coreminionmaster in "Great" tier....   why are you making things up? There is literally no reason to lie... Its the forums people will call you out pretty fast 😄

But i understand what you are saying here. Without the expansions you are slacking.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Kayberz.5346]

1 hour ago, Carnage.6751 said:

Yeah I can relate.Im not much a meta chaser player and playing good with niche classes very fun for me.But it is obvious classes in this game not made for balance.Especially classes like Reaper,Harbinger  design for power fantasy.This game have F2P class balancing.And if you don't buy new expansion you are out of meta. Look at Metabattle all GREAT tier classes are new expansion.Giving Second life Bar to necromancers have no logic.

Core valk ranger absolutely slaps in ranked right now.

[GuriGashi.5617]

I think toxicity is just what happens when the tendency to blame others meets the anonymity of the internet

[DanAlcedo.3281]

People get toxic because they don't understand the matchmaker. 

The MM tries to create a balanced matchup which translates to a 50/50 win chance. 

Aka, a coin flip. 

If you win a game, statistically you should loose the next game. 

People rage because it's their teammates fault for loosing but it's all just a game of chance. 

[Curennos.9307]

I think the game mode mostly just brings out the worst in people with the current state of things. When you have a situation where a PvP mode:

 

- Has low population, forcing the matchmaker to expand its search to get games, resulting in wins and losses that don't feel earned even if the w/l rate is still ~50%. I can win a game 500-50, then lose a game 50-500, and in both of these I had no enjoyment and my time was wasted.

- A single game mode that forces players to fight over and in tiny circles, rewarding very specific styles and specs and effectively punishing the rest, limiting build variety to a specific selection of builds with certain capabilities.

- As a result of the above, the game mode also heavily rewards specs/skills that have teleports and z-axis mobility, further limiting build variety to those that can fit teleports into their build (I am so, so tired of running the same 2 utilities as a necromancer for the past gazillion years)

- A game mode with snowballing that can result in losses feeling like the entire game was a waste of time, even if the game was close in a way not represented by the numerical score at the end

- Similarly to above, a game mode that rewards outnumbering and punishes 1v1 or XvX fights makes even fights feel pointless as you wait to get a +1 to kill the other guy, or get 3v1'd in a snowball. The best strategy to win results in the least fun for players moment to moment.

- A company that doesn't mixup the meta very often or seem to implement reasonable feedback (or be capable of sorting reasonable feedback from fluff) resulting in stale metas and confusing changes

- Class design such that fights tend to devolve to the point where wins are more about forcing your opponent to suffer more of your cheese skills than you do of their cheese skills (instant high impact skills, badly animated/low tell but high impact skills, etc)

- Players fight against the UI as often as they fight against other players, making certain aspects of combat feel unintuitive, boring, or nonsensical because the player doesn't have easy access to information other games consider commonplace and make readily available (making icons bigger, prioritizing icons, moving icons around, health bar information such as anticipated total incoming condi damage, etc)

- The PvP mode loses a feeling of integrity, worth, and a feeling of investment due to the above and due to how the lack of population makes bots and hackers much more noticeable. I sampled my games over the past few weeks and on average, 2-3/10 games actually feel 'earned'. If any of those games have bots or cheating players in them, even if it happens only once a month, it's immediately much more noticeable than if 9/10 games felt like I earned the result.

- Declining population means only the bitter players suffering from sunk cost stick around

 

So....Well. To answer the OP - both, I guess. I know I've certainly become a little shittier to people over the years, and it's something I'm working on dialing back (mostly by playing with a duo partner so things are more fun even when stuff goes to heck xD).

[Carnage.6751]

2 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

The MM tries to create a balanced matchup which translates to a 50/50 win chance. 

Yeap I def feeling that mechanic.I play all day pvp today.After reaching to S3 , MM says nope you can't escape from Silver.I keep getting terrible team combinations.Like 2 thief roamers.Last match I lost 500-499.Actually there is no %50 loss chance after win 3 game team combination and player mates gets worse.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 hours ago, Carnage.6751 said:

I wanna have conversation with my fellow pvp players.Do you think game causing to toxicity or toxic people coming to ranked?

Answer is multifaceted.

The game does generate toxicity for two reasons.

1.) The classes are often egregiously unbalanced and changes to address balance have been consistently strange or unsatisfactory.

2.) The game for ranked forces you to play with people who may for one reason or another be toxic, and bases your rank on their success. People that are already counterproductive to teams won't face repercussions unless their toxicity is extreme, because teams cannot boot them from the games.

Also, classes and builds that would work in a specifically designed situation are useless because that situation cannot be designed in ranked, and so the most catch-all, general purpose specs are favored, but not enforced. So, people always run annoying builds because they need to be prepared for anything, while builds that might be entertaining or work with a specific comp can easily lose the entire team the game. Both outcomes generate frustration/vitriol.

 

 

The gamers are also at fault, but not in any significant way that requires mentioning. At this point, people being vitriolic is a fact of life when they are frustrated or face no consequences for being vitriolic, and it is the job of the game and its developers to find a way to allow the community to eject people they don't want to play with from their groups and remove those who insist on being an obstacle.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Curennos.9307]

32 minutes ago, Carnage.6751 said:

Yeap I def feeling that mechanic.I play all day pvp today.After reaching to S3 , MM says nope you can't escape from Silver.I keep getting terrible team combinations.Like 2 thief roamers.Last match I lost 500-499.Actually there is no %50 loss chance after win 3 game team combination and player mates gets worse.

In contrast to this, I started playing a necro build that doesn't use wurm or spectral walk - it uses vamp signet, locust signet, plague signet, and harb stunbreak potion + harb elite. During a game I played yesterday, I did...basically nothing and we won. My team was so much better than the other team that my presence was a total non-factor - I even tried to go into fights but the enemy team was dead by the time I really got anywhere. It was a magical, extremely boring experience and there's nothing I could have done to lose that game or even impact it very much.

[Luthan.5236]

I think PvP game modes attract "competitive" players and they have a different reason/psychology for playing. Since the game mode in GW2 also offers rewards that can be used in PvP it is also played by people that care only about rewards. This can lead to conflicts.

Especially since ranked is the most interesting thing - even if only playin for rewards. Personally I think "rating" should not be taken too seriously. Even though I'm more casual ... it still feels annoying though to have lost barely cause of some mistakes made by others ... or losing hard and getting a big rating loss. When losing against a "stronger" enemy should actually result in less rating loss. But the system is not perfect.

Then it feels like I'm being mocked - can make me angry but I can supress this in most cases. Only if some people argue a lot in chat - thinking they are superior and need to tell others how to play (or to play PvE instead claiming everyone else in their team was bad) ... then I tend to just troll and play bad on purpose or surrender (waiting at spawn).

From sports we have a different (but somehow similar I think) thing - where people get angry if "their" team loses. (Team thay are fan of. Not playing themselves.) Social psychologists call it "basking in reflective glory" and "cutting off reflective failure").

My theory is that people with lots of success elsewhere can easier deal with losing in PvP in online games. If they have less success elsewhere it will "hurt" them more (their self worth) if they can't even be successful there ... getting more/easiler toxic then. Best would be to calm down then ... to ignore them or trying to say something useful. If you get provoked and talk back it can only escalate in such situations.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Myror.7521]

I would say what have made this game mode toxic is. The duo que ranked system. Before this system drops the pvp playerbase was pretty friendly and helpfully. Back then you where able to build 5 man teams to play with friends have fun with team building and so on. Now its more or less luck based pvp cause the matchmaking is allready bad and you need to be lucky to get good peoples in your team since all you could play is duo or solo xd

[Rabbitsocks.3726]

yes its toxic and no noone does anything to help it since anything you say about it gets removed.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

For me the toxicity comes from unfair matches where I get people who are so under my skill level that it makes me tilted. Or when I get pitted against a duo who are in the top 50ish when im only g2 or below. It's not anybodys fault but the matchmaker but you cant yell/be toxic at a match maker.

 

I havnt played ranked in 5+ season till this current one ending on 4/25. I got placed in silver 2 really low for me I believe. So far this season has been great for me, iv been pretty much winning 7/10 games and have about 90 games, and am currently sitting in middle of gold2. I'm pleasantly surprised how well my fresh air ele is doing at the moment. The only thing i feel threatened by are rangers in my games. Their 1200-1500 range is crazy. I see some pretty nasty Tele bombs from them on the tubes but have not experienced myself yet. So far I have no toxicity this season. But once I get into gold 3 I think it will be entirely different.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Eddbopkins.2630

[TheDarkness.6947]

I don’t think playing PvP has made me toxic.  Unless you consider not engaging with the chat window at all to be a toxic behavior.

PvP does make me feel frustrated and annoyed.  I feel like the game mode is pretty pointless outside of being a gear farm at this point, since maybe only 1 in 10 matches are actually fun and feel competitive.  The other 9/10 essentially just feel like a coin toss where the MMS decided which team would win before the match even started. 

But I don’t take it out on other players.  In most cases I assume it’s probably not their fault - most of them are probably doing their best to win.  It’s just the state of the game mode.

So if you spew toxicity into the chat window, I assume you must have had that tendency to begin with.  Or maybe you’ve been enduring PvP much longer than I have.  I’m planning to stop playing once I have the gear I want unless the state of the game mode significantly improves.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

11 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

75% people 25% games fault, people that are chill will stay chill, people that are toxic are going rage mode. 

The 25% comes from the game that nothing is happening or bad metals stay for a while. 

In gw2 its both combined since years

Opposite I think. Most people aren't inherently toxic, Ranked just brings out the worst in good people.

 

There's two important facets of Ranked to consider in understanding how Ranked makes monsters of mankind.

(1) The max party size is 2 in a 5v5 gamemode where at least 2 people are going to be queued solo no matter what. 

(2)The RNG-based ranking system, where the other players you're matched with are the only thing that determines how much you climb or have to do all over at the end of a Ranked match.

 

I'd say profession balance affects  PvP as a whole rather than only Ranked. 

Whereas (1) encourages shady, very toxic practicees specifically in Ranked.

And (2) is just frustrating to pretty much everyone. Having no control over it at all, and seeing a big juicy -22 rating loss after a hard fought +7 win is enough to rouse even the most stalwart of souls to baneful action. Sometimes baneful inaction.

[Arheundel.6451]

Competitiviness doesn't make you toxic, truly competitive individuals know to accept both victory and defeat with grace and respect...on the other hand, a complete lack of sportmanship and decency is what make people toxic. Win or lose, you can still choose to be a decent human being and make the game enjoyable for both sides, striving to be the better you can be, aiming to improve as much as you can....or you can choose to be a sociopath.

In the past, it was common for people to show respect for the opponent regardless of the outcome...these days is the norm to act like a mental asylum convict, be it with whispering or messages....a sure way to push people away from PvP...and it's got nothing to do with PvP itself

[frareanselm.1925]

Toxicity comes when a players gives the 100% to win and others are acting dumb. When you do everything right and still lose thanks to others is when the anger comes. 

Imagine if the good players (according statistics) of A team and B team were rewarded, and the bad players didnt recieve reward. This would be great and fair.

Edited April 13, 2022 by frareanselm.1925

[Szymon.5369]

It's a blow to your ego when you realize the game puts your supreme gaming skills at "average", not to add that you can't expect to win everytime, contrary to PvE where winning is the expected outcome.

 

Also I think PvP in randomized teams could be described as a kind of "simulated road rage" - you're put in a situation where you don't have full control of your situation, you are expected to behave in a certain pattern to succed, and you can lose by no fault of yours, all this while trusting completely random people to cooperate.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Szymon.5369

[Morwath.9817]

I blame Conquest as game mode for all toxicity. It forces split from your random team, so even if youre doing great yourself and someone is feeding on other side of map, your ability to carry is highly reduced. On top of that you often can't anyhow help your feeding team mate. Thats main reason why I hate Conquest with passion, while I loved 4v4 GW1 arenas, as I could just baby sit people as we played together whole match, even if team was 100% random.