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Let's talk Exotic weapons and New Player future


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On 4/14/2022 at 8:38 AM, kharmin.7683 said:

OWPvE is so ... forgiving.  Why would new players require stat-selectable armor?

 

Why does it matter?  Does it affect you?  Should they not be able to play how they want and more easily get the stats that they desire through stat selectable armor?

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18 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

 

Why does it matter?  Does it affect you?  Should they not be able to play how they want and more easily get the stats that they desire through stat selectable armor?

Exactly stat select-able armor is great for the game because it allows players to get their armor faster thus get into the content and learn faster. The game shouldnt be a long haul in every aspect. More ascended trinkets with ONLY stat selectable, exotic armor. The ascended armor there is some you get that has stat select armor but that isnt a big deal because you can easily toilet in new stats with Anthology and ectos. 

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The right course of action is to abolish 90% of the stat combos so that new players are funnelled towards the ones that are relevant. There are so many noob traps and completely useless combos that it's mindboggling how anybody can defend this at all.

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I disagree with what OP said. Even for max level content, there is no need for optimized and/or ascended builds. Strikes are incredibly forgiving, especially IBS strikes. New players can run rares and still finish Shiverpeak mission no problem. But I agree with having stat selectable exotic gear for cheaper crystal rate than the ascended version. 

Raids are forgiving provided players can find training runs. The main issue is number of raiders are decreasing due to the content not being updated, and even then players have to find those group from outside LFG system such as guilds or discords. It is not a gearing problem.

 

1 hour ago, Angier.1047 said:

The right course of action is to abolish 90% of the stat combos so that new players are funnelled towards the ones that are relevant. There are so many noob traps and completely useless combos that it's mindboggling how anybody can defend this at all.

Mixed feeling about this one, but I agree there are many useless combos that can be optimized.

Edited by phandaria.4891
wording
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1 hour ago, Angier.1047 said:

The right course of action is to abolish 90% of the stat combos so that new players are funnelled towards the ones that are relevant. There are so many noob traps and completely useless combos that it's mindboggling how anybody can defend this at all.

If someone wants to be funelled into specific build without reading/thinking/making it themselves, they're already free to grab one of the many builds shared by the other players/sites. Or is there something in their way preventing them from doing that?

Edited by Sobx.1758
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7 hours ago, Angier.1047 said:

The right course of action is to abolish 90% of the stat combos so that new players are funnelled towards the ones that are relevant. There are so many noob traps and completely useless combos that it's mindboggling how anybody can defend this at all.

The Level 80 boost was changed to give  Celestial Exotic gear, so this is already happening. 

Edited by ArchonWing.9480
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I don't know if all weapons/armor should be stat selectable. This would invalidate some of the current farms for stat selectable gear (WvW, VB, etc.).

I would like to see core dungeon armor and weapons be stat selectable, however. This is some of the first sub-level 80 instanced group content players can play in the game. It would be nice to make both the content and gearing more accessible (and relevant) to free-to-play players and new players alike.

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Thank you for this, it really needs another look. Even as a returning player with some prior knowledge of the game, I still got overwhelmed on the gear part coming back on a new character and I'm not exaggerating when I say I nearly quit again because of it. I had even uninstalled the game and only really decided to overcome the problem because I was struggling to find other games to get into. And that was without even being confused by what stat to go for: I found a build guide that looked really fun and interesting, but it was celestial and I was facing an arduous and confusing process to get gear for that stat.

In the end, I consulted the wiki heavily: got trinkets with laurels I'd never used from my previous time playing the game, armor mostly from VB, and machined weapons. Don't remember the rest, but yeah, it was kinda absurd. And it's not just about time investment, it's about not knowing what to do and where to go. And it's about not having the gear you need for the recommended build while you're trying to get it.

Also, I have characters from 2014-15 era back when I was originally playing the game and virtually all of them are berserker armor and weapons as exotic, with a janky setup of trinkets and backpack that don't even get to rare level in most cases. So that tells me the system wasn't exactly great even back then. At least the stat scope was more simplistic though, so recommendations were almost always berserker. Now celestial seems to be the more common recommend for open world, since it makes soloing more feasible. But simply making celestial easier to get would just be kicking the can down the road until balance changes cause another stat type to become more common. So I do think making stat selectable more accessible is the best future-proofing solution.

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11 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Thank you for this, it really needs another look. Even as a returning player with some prior knowledge of the game, I still got overwhelmed on the gear part coming back on a new character and I'm not exaggerating when I say I nearly quit again because of it. I had even uninstalled the game and only really decided to overcome the problem because I was struggling to find other games to get into. And that was without even being confused by what stat to go for: I found a build guide that looked really fun and interesting, but it was celestial and I was facing an arduous and confusing process to get gear for that stat.

In the end, I consulted the wiki heavily: got trinkets with laurels I'd never used from my previous time playing the game, armor mostly from VB, and machined weapons. Don't remember the rest, but yeah, it was kinda absurd. And it's not just about time investment, it's about not knowing what to do and where to go. And it's about not having the gear you need for the recommended build while you're trying to get it.

Also, I have characters from 2014-15 era back when I was originally playing the game and virtually all of them are berserker armor and weapons as exotic, with a janky setup of trinkets and backpack that don't even get to rare level in most cases. So that tells me the system wasn't exactly great even back then. At least the stat scope was more simplistic though, so recommendations were almost always berserker. Now celestial seems to be the more common recommend for open world, since it makes soloing more feasible. But simply making celestial easier to get would just be kicking the can down the road until balance changes cause another stat type to become more common. So I do think making stat selectable more accessible is the best future-proofing solution.

Getting some of these runes and insignias from 4000 different vendors is annoying then you have to use google and dive in to find it, for a new player that will never work out, they will lose the player before they even get to lvl 80. I ask people all the time, explain the process of getting armor, weapons (not including legendaries because that is the point) but just a basic celestial set of armor, or something that is off meta from Berserker, or Marauders. Explain ascended to me, explain exotic, where the stats are acquired from, no one can do it from point A to point Z without Rabbit trailing for 45 minutes. Its insane

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12 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

I don't know if all weapons/armor should be stat selectable. This would invalidate some of the current farms for stat selectable gear (WvW, VB, etc.).

I would like to see core dungeon armor and weapons be stat selectable, however. This is some of the first sub-level 80 instanced group content players can play in the game. It would be nice to make both the content and gearing more accessible (and relevant) to free-to-play players and new players alike.

No all of it you can make it challenging I dont want to just give players the option  but make it learn/able and make it accessible without having to go to 14 worlds, WVW, do this one specific dance in PVP then go to LA and performa a charr sacrificial ritual with a spoon you find from Ore farming corrupt chickens and you can get a single piece of Ingot that is 1 of 4 that is needed to craft it. That is insane they even have stuff remotely like that. Also everything I just said is used in one way or another for some type of armor. Just the basic set of Exotic we need to make accessible for players that is easy to learn, give them the challenge and teach players how to do it.

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20 hours ago, Angier.1047 said:

The right course of action is to abolish 90% of the stat combos so that new players are funnelled towards the ones that are relevant. There are so many noob traps and completely useless combos that it's mindboggling how anybody can defend this at all.

We need to buff or change the ones not being played. Give them such a stat boost that it forces players to change, also Gut Berserker. Time for that meta to DIE

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45 minutes ago, Legend of Rogue.5394 said:

they will lose the player before they even get to lvl 80

No, they won't. Prior to level 80, players are not min-maxing their characters. If they are, it is pointless.

I agree that the system could use an overhaul, but don't see Anet going back through all of the existing content to do so. And I don't believe it is as bleak as you make it sound.

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3 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

No, they won't. Prior to level 80, players are not min-maxing their characters. If they are, it is pointless.

I agree that the system could use an overhaul, but don't see Anet going back through all of the existing content to do so. And I don't believe it is as bleak as you make it sound.

I know its wishful thinking.... Anet never fixes anything at all that isnt relevant. The events in starter zones are so bugged out

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I expect I will be get push back for this but I like the idea of needing to travel, even if by WP, to find a specific item, recipe, or the like. The idea of different merchants across the world having somewhat different gear to sell for different currency or prices make the world feel a bit larger and more immersive to me. I think wiki and guides for those less inclined to seek these things out as part of their exploration of the world do a fine job of easing the process of gearing up.

Edited by Ashen.2907
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1 minute ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I just want to log in, buy all the stuff, skip the content and be able to beat the game.  /s

Kenobi: "The sarcasm is strong in this one."

Anet does provide a fix for the gear issue. It's called legendary gear. I am grateful to have the runes and sigils, and an extensive set of weapons. My brother, another casual player like me, crafted his first piece of WvW legendary armor last night. He's been playing for almost 2 year, and I haven't been able to accomplish that in nearly 10. Of course, he retired last year, so has had the time to invest in that game mode. It'll be a while before he builds up enough resources for the next piece.

Doesn't help with new level 80s, but it is a worthy goal, especially with the Legendary Armory.

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2 hours ago, Legend of Rogue.5394 said:

We need to buff or change the ones not being played. Give them such a stat boost that it forces players to change, also Gut Berserker.

lol. So you're against the specific requirements of acquisition of the gear, but at the same time one of the most effective, but at the same time easiest/fastest/cheapest to get somehow "NEEDS TO GO" for... what reason again? The solution you're proposing to "something being considered the strongest" is to "nerf it and buff something else to be the strongest". Like.. how exactly do you think this is somehow a positive change for anything and anyone? 🤦‍♂️ 

Quote

Time for that meta to DIE

Also... What meta? "offensive stats in an mmorpg doing exactly what they are logically designed to do"?

Edited by Sobx.1758
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22 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I just want to log in, buy all the stuff, skip the content and be able to beat the game.  /s

me too!

Everyone min maxing hard these days. I personally could care less about what people are wearing as long as they can clear the content that is at hand. I believe people assume that just because they have the "correct armor" for their build that it automatically makes them "good". Some may be but overwhelmingly most are not but we will be called toxic for calling them out on it because that is the gw2 world we live in.

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11 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

Kenobi: "The sarcasm is strong in this one."

Anet does provide a fix for the gear issue. It's called legendary gear. I am grateful to have the runes and sigils, and an extensive set of weapons. My brother, another casual player like me, crafted his first piece of WvW legendary armor last night. He's been playing for almost 2 year, and I haven't been able to accomplish that in nearly 10. Of course, he retired last year, so has had the time to invest in that game mode. It'll be a while before he builds up enough resources for the next piece.

Doesn't help with new level 80s, but it is a worthy goal, especially with the Legendary Armory.

That might be sarcasm but that is also the only realistic "fix" for "I want the gear but I don't want to spend any effort getting it".

or maybe we just ignore people who want everything without any effort? I don't really mind either way. Less effort for them is also less effort for me. I don't mind doing the things required but I don't need the effort to exist either.

 

14 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

I don't know if all weapons/armor should be stat selectable. This would invalidate some of the current farms for stat selectable gear (WvW, VB, etc.).

I would like to see core dungeon armor and weapons be stat selectable, however. This is some of the first sub-level 80 instanced group content players can play in the game. It would be nice to make both the content and gearing more accessible (and relevant) to free-to-play players and new players alike.

The problem there is that ANet considers dungeons to be abandoned content. They exist and people can do them but it's not something ANet wants to promote.

Besides, if doing VB takes too much time and effort, doing strikes takes too much time and effort, fractal is too much time and effort, wvw is too much time and effort, pvp is too much time and effort then how is dungeons not going to be too much time and effort?

 

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1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I expect I will be get push back for this but I like the idea of needing to travel, even if by WP, to find a specific item, recipe, or the like. The idea of different merchants across the world having somewhat different gear to sell for different currency or prices make the world feel a bit larger and more immersive to me. I think wiki and guides for those less inclined to seek these things out as part of their exploration of the world do a fine job of easing the process of gearing up.

Ye and thats cool because there is some theme its that basic recipes and basic armor is extremely annoying to find information on. I dont mind needing map currency for this rune or that rune thats cool. But I do get sick of every map in every part of the game having berserker gear. Literally EOD introduced so much new things and they are 75% all berserker 25% ritualist. I like pushing ritualist in EOD thats cool, make the ascended and exotic stat selectable or maybe stat selectable for certain stats... I just hate that it auto has berserker stats

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17 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

That might be sarcasm but that is also the only realistic "fix" for "I want the gear but I don't want to spend any effort getting it".

or maybe we just ignore people who want everything without any effort? I don't really mind either way. Less effort for them is also less effort for me. I don't mind doing the things required but I don't need the effort to exist either.

 

The problem there is that ANet considers dungeons to be abandoned content. They exist and people can do them but it's not something ANet wants to promote.

Besides, if doing VB takes too much time and effort, doing strikes takes too much time and effort, fractal is too much time and effort, wvw is too much time and effort, pvp is too much time and effort then how is dungeons not going to be too much time and effort?

 

By that logic maybe that player who thinks that needs to decide if Guildwars is really for them then? Something to ponder, if you cant put the time in for certain aspects then perhaps Diablo or COD or something like that. MMO's take a certain level of investment

 

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28 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

or maybe we just ignore people who want everything without any effort?

Is it a matter of effort, or is it just a lack of knowledge?

People seem to be under the impression that you must have your character exactly built as it says on metabattle or the game deletes your character.  There is zero flexibility, but that's only because they don't know how to actually build a toon, so they don't actually know of any alternatives.

I'm sure you're already familiar with all of this (duration sigils, named armor, those exotic crafts), so I won't bore you.

When you know stuff like ascended is at most 20% or so of an advantage over exotic, instead of "a kitten ton", then you will know it's not the gear that's holding you back that much. When you learn that you can double your dps by doing the rotation even a little better by not cancelling auto attacks or slamming the keyboard, you know it's not the gear. When you know you can do anything with 10 or 15k dps, you know the game's not really all about damage.   You won't have defeated yourself right out of the gate.

Yes, some traits and skills suck, Sometimes there is no reason to pick them. That sucks, but it's just easier to change yourself than Anet or other people, and there's also no reason to drag other people down in group content either (one can do w/e they want alone).

It is somewhat ironic that people blame an inflexible meta when they are so inflexible themselves.

Edited by ArchonWing.9480
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