I hate the Jade Bot.

[Jojo.6140]

The +vitality is the first direct stat boost we got since the introduction of ascended gear and stat-infusions. I enjoy getting some nice upgrade after all these years, even if its just a little more hp.

[Vaen.2605]

I really like the jade bot, I just wish the buffs lasted through a map change within Cantha.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Vaen.2605

[Farohna.6247]

10 minutes ago, Vaen.2605 said:

I really like the jade bot, I just with the buffs lasted through a map change within Cantha.

Yep, same.  Love my little jade bot, like the rez, like the little extras it brings home, like the finding chests for fun on the map.  Wish I didn't have to recharge it every time I change maps. It's quiet, charming, and not always in view.  Most of the time I forget it's there because I don't change out for fishing, just keep the usual.  I wouldn't mind having more charges too but since there are batteries or ziplines everywhere, no biggie.

[Nazarick.9653]

23 hours ago, MithranArkanere.8957 said:

I would not mind it that much if I could open the hero panel and swap a chip for one I'm going to use while out of combat. But having to go to some station with one character, removing the chips, then load them back eeeevery siiiingle tiiiiime I want to use them with another character is a step backward in QoL.

 

22 hours ago, Duglaive.5236 said:

I finally just went the route of purchasing cores, arrays/chips for a few characters I play the most and called it a day. There's just no way I'm going to Cantha possibly multiple times a play session just to swap things around; especially as I by far spend the bulk of my time in the prior expansions/zones.

 

How else are they going to sell the Thousand Seas pass, when it's pretty useless for nearly everything else except fishing?

Edited April 15, 2022 by Nazarick.9653

[Dawnbreaker.4901]

Checking the health pools of my characters and they have:

Harbinger has ~32K HP.

Mirage has ~22K HP.

Mechanist has ~27K HP.

Elementalist has ~20K HP.

Firebrand has ~20K HP.

The Harbinger has almost full Ascended gear in Marauder stats. The Mirage has a mixture of Ascended gear in Carrion and Viper stats. The Mechanist has Ascended weapons and Exotic armor and accessories and is mostly Marauder stas. Elementalist has Ascended weapons and Exotic armor and accessories, all Marauder stats. Firebrand has Ascended weapons and Exotic armor and accessories, all Carrion stats. Each character is using a DPS rune-set and sigils relative to their build.

Each character gets ~2000 HP from the Jade Bot (Tier 8 Core). The Harbinger gains an additional (combined) 420 Vitality from the Vital Persistence and Alchemic Vigor traits. The other characters don't appear to gain any additional Vitality through their traits.

While 2000 HP may not seem like a lot, there is a cascading effect. Of these characters, The Necromancer and Engineer have the highest base health pools. From traits and gear, the Necromancer pulls away from the Engineer. As a Harbinger, with maximum Blight stacks, it averages out to be ~20K HP, which is pretty well in line with the other characters in the list. I'm comfortable playing the Mirage at 22K HP. I'm confident playing the Firebrand at 20K HP. I'm not confident playing the Elementalist at 20K HP because I'm inexperienced and the Elementalist is innately more squishy than the rest of the classes in the game, the latter is largely why I don't play it as much as the others.

Player ability no doubt will play a part in whether or not 2000 HP is worthwhile. I personally prefer having a cushion as I play solo in Open World most of the time. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

6 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

“Massive” is a bit of an over exaggeration. 

Here's a fun fact.  On guardian, you go from having ~2500 HP left after a missed green on Vale Guardian to having ~5000 HP left with a tier 10 core.

[Aeon.4583]

In some way i hate Jade Bot too. It spams my chat panel with notifications and doesn't recycle junk ( looted from trophy-bags ).

But i like vitality boost and some additional loots\rewards.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Aeon.4583

[mythical.6315]

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Here's a fun fact.  On guardian, you go from having ~2500 HP left after a missed green on Vale Guardian to having ~5000 HP left with a tier 10 core.

 

Fun fact, you don't need the extra 2500 for VG.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

3 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

 

Fun fact, you don't need the extra 2500 for VG.

Here's a fun fact as to why that doesn't matter;

This is vertical progression and powercreep, two things that aren't supposed to be here in GW2.  It also really messes up the balance of encounters and is required on some classes to min/max offensive stats.   It's not like infusions, where the difference in full ascended and infused full ascended is only a total of 90 stats, it's 235 vitality + ~4 or so stat infusions, which is huge.  It's extra survival without any of the drawbacks.

Also, did you miss the part where Virtues condition firebrand gains more condition damage from this core?

Edited April 16, 2022 by Sir Alymer.3406

[sergiomasako.2906]

What is this jade robot? oh! that thing I had to fabricate to make the story and then I forgot about it.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

13 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

“Massive” is a bit of an over exaggeration. 

I disagree, having 20% more health is definitely massive. It allows you to wear gear more similar to the high HP classes such as Warrior without having to take +Vitality on everything just to not get one-shot.

 

One-shots have always been the biggest problem in Ele and Thief, although obviously not on Guardian as they get generous access to the Protection boon. Preventing one-shots allows healing, which in turn creates a cascading effect of greatly enhanced survival.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Kneitor.9367]

Your jade bot found something!

[Sarius.9285]

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

is required on some classes to min/max offensive stats.  

Haven't seen any groups like snowcrows, discretize, etc. talk about that yet.

[GODh.3892]

Wiki: Power Core bonuses do not work in PvP or WvW.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Jade_Bot_Core%3A_Tier_10

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

33 minutes ago, Sarius.9285 said:

Haven't seen any groups like snowcrows, discretize, etc. talk about that yet.

Then you've not been paying attention.

It's literally recommended on any build that converts vitality into offensive stats.

For example:
https://snowcrows.com/builds/necromancer/harbinger/condition-harbinger
https://snowcrows.com/builds/elementalist/weaver/power-weaver
https://snowcrows.com/builds/elementalist/weaver/condition-weaver
https://snowcrows.com/builds/mesmer/virtuoso/power-virtuoso
https://snowcrows.com/builds/necromancer/harbinger/condition-harbinger
https://snowcrows.com/builds/necromancer/harbinger/condition-quickness-harbinger
https://snowcrows.com/builds/guardian/firebrand/condition-firebrand
https://snowcrows.com/builds/guardian/firebrand/condition-quickness-firebrand

Edited April 16, 2022 by Sir Alymer.3406

[mythical.6315]

7 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Here's a fun fact as to why that doesn't matter;

This is vertical progression and powercreep, two things that aren't supposed to be here in GW2.  It also really messes up the balance of encounters and is required on some classes to min/max offensive stats.   It's not like infusions, where the difference in full ascended and infused full ascended is only a total of 90 stats, it's 235 vitality + ~4 or so stat infusions, which is huge.  It's extra survival without any of the drawbacks.

Also, did you miss the part where Virtues condition firebrand gains more condition damage from this core?

It really doesn’t impact encounters as much as you claim it does. 

[Obtena.7952]

On 4/14/2022 at 6:52 PM, Quench.7091 said:

I have two takes on this opinion:

1. If it isn't a game changer, why would they include it as a Jade Bot upgrade in the first place? They could have excluded it from the Jade Bot while they were making it.
2. It is power creep. Every creep made will accumulate until they cannot be ignored. It's better to stop the creep now.

1. Not everything added is a game changer. The Vitality is just an incentive to 'engage' with the Jade Bot feature in the game.

2. It's worthless to label this as power creep. The question is about significance. Personally I think it's WEIRD they gave everyone a baseline Vitality increase with the bot. I don't think it's the 'power creep' thing that I would choose to protest if I had to pick a thing to complain about. 

There IS an actual reason to hate it though ... it overwrites downstate 4. That annoys me. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Zaxares.5419]

My thoughts...

Vertical Power Progression

Yes, the introduction of the Jade Bot Power Core is definitely vertical power progression. However... it's not exactly a new thing. Ascended gear provided vertical power progression. Ascended food provided vertical power progression. In a roundabout way, elite specs and masteries did too. In fact, I would go so far to say that GW2 actually needs MORE vertical progression. Why do I say this? Basically, because of the Dragon's End fiasco. That episode made it painfully clear that the gulf in power between the casuals and the hardcores is EXTREME. Today ANet released a studio update saying that DE clears have risen from 15% to 60%, but what they didn't mention is if the total number of attempts remained the same. I suspect very strongly that the total number of attempts has fallen dramatically as many casual players decided this was too hard for them and left (especially now that they can obtain their turtle by just slowly farming Writs of DE, either in the map itself or in other maps)

This means that something needs to be done to raise the power level of casuals to the point where, even if they are not on the same level as the hardcores, that they can at least contribute meaningfully to events/content. And again, this is where the power creep of previous updates and releases comes in. Those of you who, like me, have been around since launch will probably have had a feeling of "here we go again..." upon watching the response to Dragon's End. We've had these same complaints about dungeons, Tequatl, Marionette, Chak Gerent, Dragon's Stand, raids etc. Each time, the acrimony eventually dies down as time passes, and a lot of people assume this is because the weak/bad players leave (which again, is not a good thing, because those players often wind up playing something else altogether) and those remaining get familiar with the encounter, but I believe this is only half the story. The other unseen half at work is power creep. For example, back when Tequatl first came out, people used to spam Fire Elemental Powders and Ogre Pet Whistles at him for the extra DPS. That never happens anymore. Chak Gerent used to take 2-3 phases to kill; nowadays it's not uncommon to have 2 or more lanes burn him down within the first phase. It's now very possible to clear dungeons SOLO if you're good and experienced enough.

So all this power creep has undeniably made older content easier. But, and this is the important bit, is that a bad thing? All this power creep means that it's now very possible for just a small handful of powerful, experienced veterans to carry a team full of newbies. This, in turn, leads to greater accessibility and a more welcoming atmosphere for newbies. Whenever there's a daily dungeon path, I often see (and I usually post) LFGs just going "P1 for daily, all welcome" because the players putting these up are likely old veterans who know they can easily carry the entire team if need be, without caring about team comps or DPS. So fresh newbies can get to experience the content in an atmosphere without pressure or judgment (and learn over time if they do the content repeatedly), and the veterans don't have to waste time filling exact comps or worrying that they'll fail (and waste time. I often find that, for a lot of hardcore players, the thing that annoys them the most is not failure, but the loss of the time they just invested.)

So this brings us back to the issue of the Jade Bot introducing more vertical power progression. Yes, ANet needs to be careful that the introduction of the Power Core doesn't lead to a new gear treadmill, but it could also be just what the game needs to bridge the gap between the two major cliques of PvE players. As it is now, a +235 Vitality boost isn't massively game-changing, but ANet could just as easily add variants for other stats, or even a Celestial one. Such a change can buff the power of players who want to do endgame content, but lack the skill or the desire to use meta comps. (Sometimes the meta build is just something you don't LIKE to play, for whatever reason. It's like back when Warrior BS was ALWAYS condi-based, but what if you rolled a Warrior to hack stuff with Greatsword??) It can boost min-maxers to the point where they can easily carry weaker players through things like strikes or raids, which in turn would help give a much-needed shot in the arm for these game modes (and hopefully encourage ANet to make more of them. It would be a crying shame if the 4 EoD strikes and their CMs turn out to be all we get for endgame content for the next few years until the next expansion.) And for content like Dragon's End, it could encourage players who got turned off by the poor experiences of the past to "come back and try it again when you're stronger"; coming back with more levels and stronger gear is a classic staple of RPGs past and present.

I REALLY don't want Guild Wars 2 to turn into a game where it feels we have completely different cliques of players that never interact with each other because they each despise the content the other side is doing. (This applies to PvP and WvW too. I actually feel rather sad whenever I see a player proudly proclaim that they NEVER touch PvE/PvP/WvW for whatever reason. I feel like they're missing out on the whole experience buffet that is GW2.) I feel that it detracts from the fundamental experience of playing in an MMO, and it goes against the open, welcoming, "play how you want" philosophy that helped to make GW2 stand-out from the rest of the competition.

 

Protocol Balance

I agree that the Jade Bot modules need some organizing and greater access (particularly across different game modes, as you mentioned). Currently the limit of 2 upgrade slots means that many niche upgrades (like Skiff speed boost, or Siege Turtle damage boost) will simply be passed over in favour of more generally useful (or profitable) ones. I think that the maximum number of upgrade slots should be increased to 4 (possibly 5, if higher tiers of Power Cores ever get introduced):

• 1 Scavenger slot
• 1 Recycler slot (The Treasure Hunter module could possibly go into this slot too, for players who would prefer to keep their junk items and not recycle them)
• 2 General Usage

In addition, I would like it if the Jade various Recycler modules got split into 3 different tiers: Minor, Major and Superior. This breakdown determines at what price thresholds the recycler will salvage slivers et al. from junk. Minor will only salvage junk items of 1s or below (in other words, all sorts of random mob junk like Dark Stained Claws, Spikes, Broken Lockpicks etc.) Major will salvage junk items of 10s or below (up to Broken Spoons, in other words). Superior will salvage junk items of 30s or below (as per the current version).

[SinisterSlay.6973]

Enemy power creep is a thing too. Not often mentioned but it seems Cantha basic enemies have 50,000 HP. Meaning it needs an entire rotation.

I had forgotten this then during an Orr miner daily I was running from enemies cause in my head they were powerful. Then as a thief I popped skill 3 dual pistol and stuff dies in 1 to 2 hits? What? Both level 80 areas. 

[Quench.7091]

14 minutes ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

Enemy power creep is a thing too. Not often mentioned but it seems Cantha basic enemies have 50,000 HP. Meaning it needs an entire rotation.

I had forgotten this then during an Orr miner daily I was running from enemies cause in my head they were powerful. Then as a thief I popped skill 3 dual pistol and stuff dies in 1 to 2 hits? What? Both level 80 areas. 

The creep is being countered with more creeping, such as what you've observed. I dislike it. When ascended equipment was introduced, I protested it. I don't like how elite specializations overpower the core professions in most cases. The Electromagical Pulse masteries have created creep, as a lot of new world boss encounters are now based around it.

If I had one suggestion for the creep, it would be to slow it down by utilizing the horizontal progression opportunities that these vertical progression creeps have brought. The things I've mentioned above do have room for horizontal growth, as a near equal power can replace the current power. I don't think that the developers have exploited this to their fullest. Now that we have the Jade Bot, I hope that they utilize the horizontal growth opportunities that the swappable chip system could bring.

I only see vertical growth opportunities for that vitality stat on the Jade Bot Core. It makes me worried that they plan to expand upon that stat growth, even though they have these other opportunities they could be going for.

[Sarius.9285]

3 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

It really doesn’t impact encounters as much as you claim it does. 

true, everything is still easily doable, just like before 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

9 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

Enemy power creep is a thing too. Not often mentioned but it seems Cantha basic enemies have 50,000 HP. Meaning it needs an entire rotation.

I had forgotten this then during an Orr miner daily I was running from enemies cause in my head they were powerful. Then as a thief I popped skill 3 dual pistol and stuff dies in 1 to 2 hits? What? Both level 80 areas. 

The irony of this is, the enemies in Orr were once considered "excessively difficult". It wasn't uncommon to see max-level players dying to them, but now the powercreep is so bad that even Veterans in Orr maps can be defeated in 2-3secs at most with an average DPS build.

 

Currently autohits do about the same DPS as a full rotation from 2013 (max DPS was about 10k).

 

We had damage reduced in both PvP and WvW but PvE has never been touched. Currently in PvE you're able to do so much damage that the guild hall arenas and the small arena in Sun's Refuge have become useless because you can straight up one-shot other players.

 

As for strictly PvE content I can also join any group of newer players and carry a whole dungeon run solo, as well as all Fractals up to T3, even T4 if I have a friend helping.

 

Surely this isn't the way it was meant to be, so I'm confused why the devs keep going with it. Its like they're so afraid of upsetting hardcore players with a damage and survival reduction the rest of the game mode has been suffering a complete loss of difficulty since a long time. Instead we just keep getting increased damage and health on enemies and weird mechanics like the RNG at Dragon's End meta further widening the gap between old and new content, casual and hardcore, etc like a bubble that's ready to burst at any time.

 

Just pull the powercreep back and make the game genuinely challenging again instead of implementing artificial difficulty everywhere to compensate for it.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

17 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

1. Not everything added is a game changer. The Vitality is just an incentive to 'engage' with the Jade Bot feature in the game.

2. It's worthless to label this as power creep. The question is about significance. Personally I think it's WEIRD they gave everyone a baseline Vitality increase with the bot. I don't think it's the 'power creep' thing that I would choose to protest if I had to pick a thing to complain about. 

There IS an actual reason to hate it though ... it overwrites downstate 4. That annoys me. 

1.) The incentive are the chips you can make that give side-grades to or improve the function of currently existing masteries.

2.) It is powercreep.  It literally makes a character who has the t10 core perform better than someone without.

[jahaan.1405]

You hate it??? I can't even use mine!!!! There is no way for me to deploy it unless I'm at the one heart in New Kaineng City. Did I miss something???? Did I sell something I need???

[SinisterSlay.6973]

23 minutes ago, jahaan.1405 said:

You hate it??? I can't even use mine!!!! There is no way for me to deploy it unless I'm at the one heart in New Kaineng City. Did I miss something???? Did I sell something I need???

What's even weirder the controls for the bot are different in the Wilds compared to everywhere else.  Like the code was copy and pasted wrong.  Apparently GW2 has a code reusability problem because this sort of thing happens a lot.