Ario.8964 Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 Right now scourge is dominating as far as damage goes. However, if focused down it can die in reasonable time but not without dealing some insane damage to those trying to do so. This wouldn't normally be a problem except for the fact that there is no animation to what the scourge is doing with it's shroud skills, they are instant, and they apply more condi than any other builds out there. With the extremely limited clear available to many classes (i.E rev, engi, and now core war) this is a massive problem when you add in the ability for them to apply barrier, prot, and other forms of damage mitigation. Their damage needs to be toned down in pvp and animations/windups need to be applied to their shroud skills to at least give people a chance to fight a scourge without random dodging and hoping it dodges the right stuff. This problem has gotten worse since sb can no longer contest it with smart positioning and use of resistance. (it's good that sb was nerfed but now the builds that were shut out by it but still op are able to roam freely and that is hurting the game, mirage is also a problem but I'm not familiar enough with it to say what ought to be changed outside of reducing the condi application ability it has)Firebrand is too tanky. The amount of aegis, stability, and healing it has combined make it far too powerful as a support and make the power builds utilizing it way too strong for the lack of investment into a stat like healing power. In this case, tempest needs to be used as a benchmark for where support should be performing and firebrand should be nerfed to that level so both are good options to take and while powerful and effective, they are not gamebreaking.Please anet, do something about this DURING THE SEASON. I know it's not something you'd normally like to do but a whole season of this is going to lose you even more of the already limited playerbase.
Morwath.9817 Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 Ooo, have you thought that damage power creep itself is a problem, not Firebrand?Yet, Quaggan wouldn't mind nerfing FB, if damage would be reduced across the board for top offensive specs, because Scrouge isn't the only offender.
Ario.8964 Posted November 8, 2017 Author Posted November 8, 2017 Well that is true it is not. I'm basing my suggestions off of the idea that the benchmark for balance should be A-tier classes like holo, tempest, s/d thief, etc. According to that level other classes need to be buffed/nerfed accordingly and right now, though they aren't the only offenders, firebrand and scourge are the biggest offenders. After they are dealt with and ultimately balanced, other things sticking out will be addressed.
Morwath.9817 Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 @Ario.8964 said:Well that is true it is not. I'm basing my suggestions off of the idea that the benchmark for balance should be A-tier classes like holo, tempest, s/d thief, etc. According to that level other classes need to be buffed/nerfed accordingly and right now, though they aren't the only offenders, firebrand and scourge are the biggest offenders. After they are dealt with and ultimately balanced, other things sticking out will be addressed.Foooo, Yolosmith damage is silly as was Viper Rev damage after release, the fact its currently countered by other offender (Scrouge), doesn't mean it's totaly fine. Honestly, Quaggan would rather tone down stuff, than buff it, to avoid power creep. Obviously ,don't get Quaggan wrong, Quaggan would tinker slowly with stuff like 3-5% here and there every two weeks [edited], until stuff would be more or less balanced, would be nice to see Scrappers once again, same of Tablet Revenant, which concept wise is much closer to Firebrand than Tempest.Scrouge on the other hand, requires a little PvP redesign into disabler/supporter rather than damage dealer, because killing stuff is rather what Reaper should do.
Malafaia.8903 Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 @Morwath.9817 said:@Ario.8964 said:Well that is true it is not. I'm basing my suggestions off of the idea that the benchmark for balance should be A-tier classes like holo, tempest, s/d thief, etc. According to that level other classes need to be buffed/nerfed accordingly and right now, though they aren't the only offenders, firebrand and scourge are the biggest offenders. After they are dealt with and ultimately balanced, other things sticking out will be addressed....because killing stuff is rather what Reaper should do.THIS!
Spurnshadow.3678 Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 We all saw this in betas. Now we've had the balance patch which seemed more like a bunch of bug fixes and tweeks. There won't be another one for 3 months. Have fun.
Jackalrat.5493 Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 I so dearly wish OP's request was met. That they would look at this clearly insane spam of condi damage that is about to ruin yet another season...But I am not hopeful. So many things done well in GW2 but PvP balance has never been one of them. Honestly, it's laughably bad to the extent that makes me long for vanilla WoW (which was horribly balanced, but at least the devs made good choices with their patches - always moving in the right direction to the point where TBC onward WoW was actually pretty balanced.)
Arcaedus.7290 Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 They nerfed the wrong aspects of Firebrand this past balance patch... they nerfed quickness application (which isn't particularly applicable to bunker FB) but didn't even touch ToR healing. In fact, bunker FB got buffed if anything since mantra ranges were increased (more support).
MethaneGas.8357 Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 It's HoT all over again...But for reals... Scourge may not have tells but this is how it works:If you're melee, each shroud skill hits you in melee range with no tell, so if you can get out of range, it does wonders. If not, watch for when they use their Desert Shroud (F5 - large barrier with big AoE pulsing around them). Once that's done, a large chunk of their damage is gone as well. If you're ranged, just avoid shades and being in melee range... or just bring a support Firebrand. Good luck out there!
Ario.8964 Posted November 9, 2017 Author Posted November 9, 2017 @Morwath.9817 said:@Ario.8964 said:Well that is true it is not. I'm basing my suggestions off of the idea that the benchmark for balance should be A-tier classes like holo, tempest, s/d thief, etc. According to that level other classes need to be buffed/nerfed accordingly and right now, though they aren't the only offenders, firebrand and scourge are the biggest offenders. After they are dealt with and ultimately balanced, other things sticking out will be addressed.Foooo, Yolosmith damage is silly as was Viper Rev damage after release, the fact its currently countered by other offender (Scrouge), doesn't mean it's totaly fine. Honestly, Quaggan would rather tone down stuff, than buff it, to avoid power creep. Obviously ,don't get Quaggan wrong, Quaggan would tinker slowly with stuff like 3-5% here and there every two weeks [edited], until stuff would be more or less balanced, would be nice to see Scrappers once again, same of Tablet Revenant, which concept wise is much closer to Firebrand than Tempest.Scrouge on the other hand, requires a little PvP redesign into disabler/supporter rather than damage dealer, because killing stuff is rather what Reaper should do.I could see some holo damage reductions as well to keep with the theme of balancing the game as a whole. I'll give that one to quaggan. My intentions with bringing a (theoretically) massive damage nerf to scourge would be to leave a ton of room to buff it's support ability (the spec was marketed as a support) which then opens up the dps roll to reaper and allows other comps to be played around with. I'd love to see small tweaks after the large issues are dealt with in order to maintain a fine balance and keep things moving in the right direction but first the big changes have to happen so the game can function.@Razor.6392 said:Don't forget mirage.Oh believe me, Mirage is in need of a few tweaks as well. However, I'd wait and see what possible specs emerge as a counter to mirage once the threat of scourge or firebrand shutting them down completely is gone.
brannigan.9831 Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 Does it really work with power builds in spvp? I tried it during the offseason and it seemed way too clunky to me. I felt like it was way more streamlined and effective just using the core radiant build. Like if I need to cure conditions its much easier to just hit f2 then to switch to the tome and hit five and then 2. Also, while your curing conditions you cant be attacking the target. Firebrand might be a problem, although Im dubious, but its the support only builds.
Rap Tiger.1257 Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 Please, this is not op, now after balancing there is no more class op, too focus scourge and this die.
Seth.8906 Posted November 10, 2017 Posted November 10, 2017 Druid and tempest support was nerfed hard firebrand need the same
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