The reason untamed "sucks"

[anduriell.6280]

1 minute ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

And all of those traits lower your dmg output drastically compared to a properly build dps soulbeast. No need to spam barrage every few seconds when one is enough to mow down average open world trash mobs.

In fact there are much better weapons for trash mob tagging. But let him be, you will not get thru their imaginary world were the wiki is truth. 

[Mell.4873]

16 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Ah that explains a lot and why you write so many absurd comments. Look, the only way you can provide real feedback is to stop using the Wiki to balance it. 

Also OpenWorld PvE is not a good way to give suggestions about this class. More so if you use the wiki. 

My understanding is we were just talking about Open World. Instanced content requires alot more fine tuning and very specific builds. Which currently the Ranger has almost 0, except Soulbeast but arguably its pretty bad in any 5 man instance and does okay in Strikes (not great). 

Ranger really offers very little to team based content with almost no boons. The damage is to tied up in complex rotation that if interrupted mean 0 damage. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

7 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

In fact there are much better weapons for trash mob tagging.

Exactly what I used it for lol. 

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

And all of those traits lower your dmg output drastically compared to a properly build dps soulbeast. No need to spam barrage every few seconds when one is enough to mow down average open world trash mobs.

Also no need for Forest Fortification when camping safely at range.

You have tried to solo any Champion or Legendary Enemies? 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Zyreva.1078]

My statement is true regardless of what type of PvE content we are talking about (and soloing bosses is not what the average open world experience looks like).

Edited September 25, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

My understanding is we where just talking about Open World. Instanced content requires alot more fine tuning and very specific builds. Which currently the Ranger has almost 0, except Soulbeast but arguably its pretty bad in any 5 man instance and does okay in Strikes (not great). 

Ranger really offers very little to team based content with almost no boons. The damage is to tied up in complex rotation that if interrupted mean 0 damage. 

Almost every thread in any profession forum is made with either instanced content or competitive modes in mind.  PvE is the outlier since "everything works in PvE".

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

My statement is true regardless of what type of PvE content we are talking about (and soloing bosses is not what the average open world experience looks like).

The average open world experience is 'doesn't really matter what your build is'. Some people want to be able to solo group content, though, whether for the challenge or because they don't want to rely on help being available when they want to do something, and for these people, being able to do that is a distinct strength of the options that bring that capability.

Untamed performs well in sPvP and is suitable for challenging solo PvE. It has builds that can perform well in instanced content, they're just more complex to run than the more popular soulbeast. It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it has its place.

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

My statement is true regardless of what type of PvE content we are talking about (and soloing bosses is not what the average open world experience looks like).

7 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Almost every thread in any profession forum is made with either instanced content or competitive modes in mind.  PvE is the outlier since "everything works in PvE".

Most of the Game is Open World PvE content. If you bring any type of Snowcrow optimized build into End-Game OW content you will fall flat on your face. 

This is whole benchmark issue all over again, Soulbeast is the perfect example of this since without a Support to hold your hand you will just die. Have you ever tried to farm Silver Wastes with Soulbeast, its absolutely garbage.

Different builds for different game modes.

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Most of the Game is Open World PvE content. If you bring any type of Snowcrow optimized build into End-Game OW content you will fall flat on your face.

L2P issue. Also what is "end-game" ow even supposed to be? OW is easy as everything can get zerged down or tickled down with random facetank builds.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Most of the Game is Open World PvE content. If you bring any type of Snowcrow optimized build into End-Game OW content you will fall flat on your face. 

This is whole benchmark issue all over again, Soulbeast is the perfect example of this since without a Support to hold your hand you will just die. Have you ever tried to farm Silver Wastes with Soulbeast, its absolutely garbage.

Different builds for different game modes.

If you're aware of how the game works, snowcrows builds more often than not do perfectly fine.

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

L2P issue. Also what is "end-game" ow even supposed to be? OW is easy as everything can get zerged down or tickled down with random facetank builds.

Yes you are correct, but sometimes you need an extra special class like Untamed to do the job. 

6 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

If you're aware of how the game works, snowcrows builds more often than not do perfectly fine.

The top Soulbeast build will just result in your death in most hard Open World Content. No L2P required then you spend your time trying to live by dodging and avoided attacks. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I'm unsure what this topic is even about anymore.  

Yes, you can solo OW content with a Soulbeast--I do it all the time on a glass melee; it's my preferred to run metas like Dragons Stand because no pet to worry about during some of the more difficult parts like the circling deal.  

Yes, Untamed is very good in sPvP and soloing instance content--I've just soloed Urban Battleground this evening with an Untamed build.  

No, Snowcrows isn't needed for anything but Raids with super specific comps you probably aren't in anyway.

Yes, Longbow is good for tagging trash--not sure anything that beats it, and only axe equals it if you want to play a little harder and not just spam barrage from 1500.  

[Mell.4873]

47 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I'm unsure what this topic is even about anymore.  

We are all over the place but I'm probably to blame mostly since I mixed in the different ways I use Ranger since its my Main. My other Main Class Mesmer handles most group content, although I do to have fun with Soulbeast especially during Meta events.

[Ashen.2907]

On 9/25/2022 at 12:41 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Have you ever tried to farm Silver Wastes with Soulbeast,

Yes. Frequently. Lately this has meant soloing a lane as often as not.

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Yes. Frequently. Lately this has meant soloing a lane as often as not.

Well I was never able to solo them on Soulbeast rather Untamed was my elite of choice. I guess I could if I played super safe but that would mean well below 10k DPS.

I am also talking about the Melee Snowcrow builds which normally don't involve full ranged even though the shortbow is now best in slot for Condition Soulbeast.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Mell.4873

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

16 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Well I was never able to solo them on Soulbeast rather Untamed was my elite of choice. I guess I could if I played super safe but that would mean well below 10k DPS.

I am also talking about the Melee Snowcrow builds which normally don't involve full ranged even though the shortbow is now best in slot for Condition Soulbeast.

The higher DPS option power soulbeast builds are longbow axe/axe or axe/axe/warhorn... at most you have 1 melee skill.

 

This is a L2P issue.

[Mell.4873]

11 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

The higher DPS option power soulbeast builds are longbow axe/axe or axe/axe/warhorn... at most you have 1 melee skill.

 

This is a L2P issue.

I was watching some videos on it, i think my problem is elect to use the melee only options like with Untamed which gets me trouble more. My Soulbeast build is the hybrid high damage one which is Dagger/Axe + Axe/Torch so I can benefit from Ambidexterity 240 condition damage. Its a beast and arguably better than the Snowcrow Version.
Its just very low survivability, the Longbow one would be better but if you had to camp Longbow you would get much lower dps than Untamed. You are super reliant on hitting the Axe 5 with your setup skills.

 

I have moved well past L2P issue since I have used Soulbeast the longest out of any class and my conclusion was the survivability is to low VS's other class like Mesmer which I started to Main.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

Honestly the more we argue the more I agree with the thread in general, dam you @anduriell.6280.

Ranger is just a different type class. It has never really been Meta even when Druid dominated the healing role.
It is my main class because it has always had such good Survivability and Damage ratio.

The variety in the class is amazing, just take a look at the 3 dominant Soulbeast builds which are all radically different. Untamed is just a new frontier with arguably more consistent damage and survivability.

[Lazze.9870]

On 9/24/2022 at 6:47 PM, Levetty.1279 said:

The best specs in pvp at the moment are also good at PvE. Absolutly 0 reason for thier to be specs that focus exclusively on PvP with so many traits skills and the possibility of balance splits.

 

Untamed isn't even that good in PvP in the first place.

Untamed is our best PvP spec at the moment. Spellbreaker would have been warrior's best spec atm if bladesworn wasn't carried by bugs and shout spam.

Let's get this straight, Untamed is not what I wanted. It's good in PvP, but spec isn't tailored for WvW at all. That's the game mode ranger really suffers in.

Secondly, exclusively is your word.

Thirdly; the REASON for a PvP/WvW focused spec would be to fill the huge gap that is currently there. Then you can take that awesome balance split you suggest and pump the numbers up until the PvE only bois are happy.

 

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Untamed is our best PvP spec at the moment. Spellbreaker would have been warrior's best spec atm if bladesworn wasn't carried by bugs and shout spam.

Let's get this straight, Untamed is not what I wanted. It's good in PvP, but spec isn't tailored for WvW at all. That's the game mode ranger really suffers in.

Secondly, exclusively is your word.

Thirdly; the REASON for a PvP/WvW focused spec would be to fill the huge gap that is currently there. Then you can take that awesome balance split you suggest and pump the numbers up until the PvE only bois are happy.

 

The funny thing is I might make a post about my WvW Untamed build.
Ranger is really funny WvW since the best way to play is build switching. Arguably all classes can benefit by switching builds between any given scenario but Ranger my god benefits from this the most.

So the next question is what to I use Untamed for? Hit and Run counter offensives especially with keep defense.
The generally idea is you Teleport down with active Forest Fortification, do a tone of damage and then leave. This is crazy OP against organized Zergs. Often the tail will lag behind or trying and snipe people so you can teleport in, try one shot them and then leave with Super Speed. I might even do Video of this working at some point.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Mell.4873

[anduriell.6280]

17 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

The variety in the class is amazing, just take a look at the 3 dominant Soulbeast builds which are all radically different

It really doesn’t feel that way: you can go power with lb/gs and pewpew or condi with shortbow /axe and pewpew. Or do the regen build with commander set and axe/gs and pewpew (with the axe) .

Isn’t the build for unPlayed use gs/lb as well? 

17 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Honestly the more we argue the more I agree with the thread in general, dam you @anduriell.6280.

I apologize because maybe it’s better to keep the rose tinted glasses on. 

 

12 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Hit and Run counter offensives especially with keep defense.

UnDeveloped does not dwell well with that, I mean unless you are talking about hit like a wet noodle (wvw is not pvp and peeps are tankier) and then run back into the tower. Kind of the pewpew tower camper everybody loves but with a teleport in there. 
I mean that is very boooooring way to play, really disgusted by everybody else in wvw and not my thing. 
 

but hey you do you. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Mell.4873]

11 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

It really doesn’t feel that way: you can go power with lb/gs and pewpew or condi with shortbow /axe and pewpew. Or do the regen build with commander set and axe/gs and pewpew (with the axe) .

Isn’t the build for unPlayed use gs/lb as well? 

Most people don't use Greatsword on any PvE build. In terms of PvP only predictable Silver players use both since its very easy to counter play those weapon. My most used weapon would have to be Axe + Warhorn since the Ambush especially is very nice for Untamed.

When I did main Soulbeast I used an odd Condition Version with Shortbow and Axe + Torch. It was particularly effective at cleaving downed players.

11 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

UnDeveloped does not dwell well with that, I mean unless you are talking about hit like a wet noodle (wvw is not pvp and peeps are tankier) and then run back into the tower. Kind of the pewpew tower camper everybody loves but with a teleport in there. 
I mean that is very boooooring way to play, really disgusted by everybody else in wvw and not my thing. 
 

but hey you do you. 

Again its why I advocate Build switching. It is very strong when you can get away and most organized Zergs will not chase which I use to my advantage. This is also one of the builds I use the Smokescale Stealth combos.

If a Zerg is up for dueling the enemy players then I tend to play Druid so I can stall them until my allies arrive.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Mell.4873

[anduriell.6280]

14 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Again its why I advocate Build switching.

You can’t switch templates during combat, I don’t understand why you keep bringing this up. Another wiki fail? 

Edited September 27, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Mell.4873]

13 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

You can’t switch templates during combat, I don’t understand why you keep bringing this up. Another wiki fail? 

You are never always in combat, i run away then change and come back. Its a pretty common practice in WvW.

Druid to Soulbeast is a common way to deal with Roaming players.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

You can’t switch templates during combat, I don’t understand why you keep bringing this up. Another wiki fail? 

The more I read, the more I believe you have never stepped foot outside of open world PvE...

Edited September 28, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267