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Sansar.1302

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22 minutes ago, FrenzyCat.9614 said:

Mesmers aren't allowed to have nice things and Elementalists are a meme.

 

Play a Guardian if you're afraid of your favorite class getting nerfed.

And stay away from necros and rangers/especially bearbow (unless you're scourge or heal druid) because they're usually the ones people kick first as a lot of new players play these because they're easy. Has been this way since dungeons were the only endgame and probably won't change. 

EDIT: If you're unsure what class to play go to snowcrows and pick the one with the best build and best benchmark. You're usually safe and requested like hot butter. 

Edited by Cynder.2509
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There are many axis to balance around that... aren't always relevant in each game mode.  Stuff like mobility, movement disabling conditions, cleave size, durability, self sustain, engagement range, etc, are all factors that are quite important in PVP and WvW that aren't all that useful in instanced PVE.  There is where you can get strange things, like the Catalyst ripping the PVE scene up while being worse in WvW/PvP than Weavers are, and Weavers are considered underpowered in the PVE scene.  To give another example, consider the condition Cripple for a moment.  In fractals, strikes, raids, and big overworld bosses it is useless.  But, if you're killing enemies solo the ability to inflict cripple and run circles around them can effectively make you untouchable to those mobs.  Cripple has strong effects in PvP, and less of an effect in WvW where Superspeed is much more common.

Anet is in the unenviable position where they have to balance professions based on casual overworld performance, hardcore overworld performance, casual strikes/fractals/raids, hardcore strikes/fractals/raids, casual PvP, hardcore PvP, casual WvW, and hardcore WvW all at the same time.  There's also the set of cottage rules, where each class and specialization has themes they have to adhere to, and also elements they have to avoid.  

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5 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

And stay away from necros and rangers/especially bearbow (unless you're scourge or heal druid) because they're usually the ones people kick first as a lot of new players play these because they're easy. Has been this way since dungeons were the only endgame and probably won't change. 

EDIT: If you're unsure what class to play go to snowcrows and pick the one with the best build and best benchmark. You're usually safe and requested like hot butter. 

My main character has been a ranger since day 1, it's the one I do most end-game content on, including Fractals, strikes and some raids and it's been years since someone kicked me, or threatened to kick me, just for playing a ranger (even in the early days it wasn't as common as some people made it sound). Even when someone in a T3 Fractal thought I wasn't using an elite spec all I got was a whisper asking where I'd found a good build for the core profession. (I was actually using soulbeast, but somewhere or other it just listed my profession as ranger.)

I wouldn't recommend playing bear bow in most group instances, because it doesn't work very well in confined spaces and if there's space to spread out enough to use it effectively you're then going to be out of range for sharing buffs. So maybe if you do that a group would object, but presumably they'd also object to unsuitable builds from other professions.

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I dont think that the balance between classes is bad.

But the Balance between elite specs could surely be better.

X outperforms Y:
Renegade - Herald
Firebrand - Dragonhunter
Scourge - Reaper
Soulbeast - Druid
And so on.

Of course you could also do the same with e specs between different classes.
Example:
Firebrand - Herald
Or something like that.


Some e specs are far worse than others.
But I dont think whole classes are totally outperforming other classes.
Only e specs totally outperforming other e specs.

But I dont think that general classes are far betters than others, but I think that some e specs are far better than other e specs and that the balance between these could be far better in some cases.

Edited by SeTect.5918
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3 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

As long as you don't play elementalist you're good.  It's never been worthy of consideration beyond that.  At least if you're ANet's balance team.

Depends on the game mode.  I play mostly open world stuff and all 3 elite specs are very good there.  And I know you know this 😏 

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5 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

Depends on the game mode.  I play mostly open world stuff and all 3 elite specs are very good there.  And I know you know this 😏 

Sure.  It's great for open world.  "Great" may be defined in this context as "capable of doing what literally all other classes can do, albeit with generally more difficulty and greater limitations."  It's the same story for group PvE, where ele is a second-rate support class at best and a second-rate DPS class in theory but probably closer to the bottom in practice, again due to heavy limitations imposed upon the class by its design and not compensated in any way.

It's really not a coincidence that it has the worst class representation for years running.

Edit: To be clear, I don't want to make it sound like ele is terrible.  It isn't and it certainly has its strong points in solo play especially.  But there are a number of things about the design that might have made sense years ago but really need to change at this point.

Edited by AliamRationem.5172
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What source are you using to determine class representation?  All I have seen show Revenant and Engineer far below the rest of the classes, with all others being fairly equal except Guardian at the top followed by Ranger and Necro. 

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1 hour ago, Stx.4857 said:

What source are you using to determine class representation?  All I have seen show Revenant and Engineer far below the rest of the classes, with all others being fairly equal except Guardian at the top followed by Ranger and Necro. 

The elementalist is good at many things but, as much as it does have a low skill floor, it's the profession with the highest skill ceiling of the game. Playing it in a very simple way by camping a single attunment (and sometime switching) can be relatively rewarding and forgiving. Playing it "as intended" by switching attunments as much as possible can quickly lead to players facing their own skill ceiling and losing their confidence as the result feel hardly rewarding and certainly not forgiving.

Where other profession have had their e-specs dumbing down their professions (I'm sorry but it's true for most professions), the elementalist's e-specs, so far try to enforce the difficult gameplay of the profession. This lead to a wider array of complex optimale rotations, raising the skill ceiling higher every time.

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Tbh, it's not the case that proffessions get left that much more powerful then others. 

If you take the average gold game you can win with any spec (providing the build makes sense) 

If you take the average raid group you can top a dps meter with any specc with a good build can top it.

It's when you look at the bleeding edge builds, or the perfect role compression in the top groups you see some builds are stronger then others. 

The primary issue is players attempt mimic what those top groups and pro players do and try to enforce it.

 

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4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Tbh, it's not the case that proffessions get left that much more powerful then others. 

If you take the average gold game you can win with any spec (providing the build makes sense) 

If you take the average raid group you can top a dps meter with any specc with a good build can top it.

It's when you look at the bleeding edge builds, or the perfect role compression in the top groups you see some builds are stronger then others. 

The primary issue is players attempt mimic what those top groups and pro players do and try to enforce it.

 

I guess it depends on the context.  For instance, they created firebrand and gave it way too much utility and it's dominated the PvE support meta ever since.

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14 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I guess it depends on the context.  For instance, they created firebrand and gave it way too much utility and it's dominated the PvE support meta ever since.

It took a few months, some buffs to FB/renegade and some nasty nerfs to mesmer before it dominated PvE support meta. It wasn't seen as a "competitive support" when it was released.

Edited by Dadnir.5038
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45 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I guess it depends on the context.  For instance, they created firebrand and gave it way too much utility and it's dominated the PvE support meta ever since.

Well yeah firebrand defiantly ruled the fractal meta, however did fall off abit in raiding environments. 

 

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