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Best no-stealth builds?


SlitheSlivier.1908

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What are the best stealthless builds for roaming and dueling in wvw that I can switch to when taking or fighting near a tower with watchtower or sentry?

 

Preferably power but doesn't have to be... and preferably something that can solo a t1 tower lord.

Maybe sw/d? Maybe specter (which I haven't played around with yet). Anyone having decent success with such a build?

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Remember that Marked doesn't disable stealth, it simply Reveals you after 2 seconds. So you can still freely play builds with rapid stealth-then-sneak-attack combos all you want. You just can't use stealth to wait out cooldowns or reset the fight.

That means you can play a low-stealth build like Sword/Dagger, Staff Devil, or Power Specter (Scepter/Dagger) just fine.

But you can also play Dagger/Pistol, Condi Thief, or even Rifle Deadeye just fine if it comes to that. Just be aggressive and keep track of your shadowsteps so you have a plan for how to disengage.

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Maybe not roaming and not dueling but if you're trying to catch up to your groups or you're walking people across a map, Reveal yourself before something else does. You might keep a constant scan of a radius around you on the move with your peripheral to feel out topography. Then you can kind of keep a catalog of routes that will let you dip low or around corners to mask your map travel some from as many directions as you can at once. If you know you broke line of site from most eyes that could be a good time to use skills to create some distance so you might drop target and whoever's reaching out to you might give up chase. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/22/2022 at 12:34 PM, SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

What are the best stealthless builds for roaming and dueling in wvw that I can switch to when taking or fighting near a tower with watchtower or sentry?

 

Preferably power but doesn't have to be... and preferably something that can solo a t1 tower lord.

Maybe sw/d? Maybe specter (which I haven't played around with yet). Anyone having decent success with such a build?

Had success with staff and using scorpion wire. No stealth at all (unless stolen), the scorp wire for interrupts and pulls back into staff cleave range -- which is probably where most dmg comes from. Spikes from vault usually saved for the end of opponents dodge frame, or various channelled skills ending etc.  

It mainly works via keeping an opponent in mele range and using auto attack to be honest (as in that's the prime dmg source), while dodging their response. However, that's pretty generic for any thief build right? 😄

Scorp wire also enables you to pull the annoying prevalence of standing in fields/wells/traps etc, but it's so damned buggy that it takes a while to get used to it in order to get it to land -- but coupled with swipe, has been known to be able to chain 3 interrupts in a row to essentially 100 -> 0 opposition. Obviously may be best to save swipe for the second interrupt to remove stab or penetrate the block if they use that as a stun break. 

Should add, scorp wire is horrifically unreliable, so it takes a while to get used to when you *may* get it to land successfully (defeated by movement AND ghost terrain) 😄 

Staff is better than some think - but it isn't the best else everyone would use it. Staff 3 can break immob, while the ranged blind on staff 4 does okay damage (can be used to remove aegis or just do ranged dmg rather than blind specifically), so both really useful, but little in the sense of mobility on the weapon set specifically (the staff 3 is short distance, and 5 uses so much init for short movement it's suboptimal), so worth building around that consideration.

I find staff 2 to be useless/pointless -- the weakness application is short, and the init vs dmg payoff is so low as I'd rather save the init. Trying to think of another thief weaponset where I don't use one weapon skill under any circumstance.

I should add I use a sigil that gives 5s of quickness with 20s cooldown on interrupt - so that may tip how I find reasonable success. Depending upon utility choices you may wish energy/cleanse sigils as combos and alternative weaponsets given prevalence of condi, and certainly if not knowing the new specialisations yet (I don't, finding some tough for now). 

Obviously this isn't going to be a build that, unlike some others, can take on any class/build combo -- so I'm not claiming this is awesome. I play it alongside sw/d daredevil or core. But on staff I do pair the shortbow still - mainly for ranged poking and gap opening.

If you try and are really struggling, take thieves guild. It may have a long cooldown, but the diversion/pulls they can supply for 30s can tip the fights at first and is suitable for nearly any fight.

 

Now, real reason to post it - can it solo a tower lord? Absolutely. Crit strikes heal can often do great things to keep you alive in a fight with tower lord and guards (vault can hit 5 is it, and if you get %age heal of dmg, can be quite an eye opener if crit hitting 5), and if you run thieves guild, you get an extra pull, extra damage, and more importantly - diversion 😄 The scorpion wire can help with trying to break their break bar too, but I may run a second stun break in this instance instead.

However, I'd have though condi was still king in that area (despite not playing a condi build in *years*), but the most important thing is just not getting dazed/knocked back by the lord. Avoid those (which can put you in a bit of a pickle) and you'll find it pretty easy. 

Edited by Chips.7968
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On 5/2/2022 at 4:53 AM, Chips.7968 said:

Should add, scorp wire is horrifically unreliable

Depends on how you are using it.

 

(1) I use it one thieves. Especially the deadeye. Many a deadeye has fallen because of scorpion wire. 

 

(2) I love using it on rangers.  I'd say around 75% of the time it works on rangers.

 

(3) Necros.  Any necro class. Like 90% of the time I get that pull and I usually prefer in close melee fighting. 

(4) Anyone running away. 

 

(5) One of my favorite things to do to a necro hanging around a tower/keep portal is throw scorpion wire. Pull them to me. Use my #3 key (Shadow Strike) which shadow steps me backwards 600 game units, then scorpion wire the 2nd time to pull that necro further away from safety.

Then kill the necro.

 

(6) Or any fool on the wall that is shooting at me. I've seen less than 5 thieves run scorpion aside from me, so noone expects me to pull them off a wall. 

 

It can be a very reliable tool.  I even use it to remove Aegis off someone so I can unleash devastation.

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6 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Depends on how you are using it.

 

(1) I use it one thieves. Especially the deadeye. Many a deadeye has fallen because of scorpion wire. 

 

(2) I love using it on rangers.  I'd say around 75% of the time it works on rangers.

 

(3) Necros.  Any necro class. Like 90% of the time I get that pull and I usually prefer in close melee fighting. 

(4) Anyone running away. 

 

(5) One of my favorite things to do to a necro hanging around a tower/keep portal is throw scorpion wire. Pull them to me. Use my #3 key (Shadow Strike) which shadow steps me backwards 600 game units, then scorpion wire the 2nd time to pull that necro further away from safety.

Then kill the necro.

 

(6) Or any fool on the wall that is shooting at me. I've seen less than 5 thieves run scorpion aside from me, so noone expects me to pull them off a wall. 

 

It can be a very reliable tool.  I even use it to remove Aegis off someone so I can unleash devastation.

(5) Normally if you can see the character target circle at their feet overlapping the edge of the wall then that should mean it will be a full Scorpion Wire pull. Otherwise it at least might Interrupt them but not pull off all the way.

It's a good Reflect check also since it's not damaging and can pull you close to your target. 

My brain is probably full of kitten but I feel like if I pan camera to arch my Scorpion Wire launch like I'm fly fishing, the snap back might pull the character up and over a little. I might just being seeing what I want to see but that seems to be what happens instead of a straight pull that might only drag them an inch or two. It's a weird pull because you have to snap back up and over the exact moment it connects. It's how I move when I use it as an Interrupt on the run anyway, kind of want to move into it like it's just part of your arm. Again though, my mind is probably playing tricks on me. 

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On 5/5/2022 at 4:03 AM, Jitters.9401 said:

Depends on how you are using it.

 

(1) I use it one thieves. Especially the deadeye. Many a deadeye has fallen because of scorpion wire. 

 

(2) I love using it on rangers.  I'd say around 75% of the time it works on rangers.

 

(3) Necros.  Any necro class. Like 90% of the time I get that pull and I usually prefer in close melee fighting. 

(4) Anyone running away. 

 

(5) One of my favorite things to do to a necro hanging around a tower/keep portal is throw scorpion wire. Pull them to me. Use my #3 key (Shadow Strike) which shadow steps me backwards 600 game units, then scorpion wire the 2nd time to pull that necro further away from safety.

Then kill the necro.

 

(6) Or any fool on the wall that is shooting at me. I've seen less than 5 thieves run scorpion aside from me, so noone expects me to pull them off a wall. 

 

It can be a very reliable tool.  I even use it to remove Aegis off someone so I can unleash devastation.

Ive generally had scorp wire fail me more often than not. Usually by failing to correctly pull.

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On 5/5/2022 at 10:03 AM, Jitters.9401 said:

Depends on how you are using it.

It can be a very reliable tool.  I even use it to remove Aegis off someone so I can unleash devastation.

Context is everything -- the reliability has nothing to do with the particular target or boons.

 

Kinda like trying to use any form of shadow step around water camp (random locations) in world vs world, or ranged projectiles in vale camp circle. Magifail.

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Yes sw/d tricks is lowkey overpowered, it has a few personal choices to make when building. Not easy to play optimal.

Sc/d condi specter (ritualist/trailblazer) w/ antitoxin is also very strong in the current meta. Will wear down or stalemate other trailblazer condi builds.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/11/2022 at 3:09 PM, Chips.7968 said:

Context is everything -- the reliability has nothing to do with the particular target or boons.

It has everything to do with a target or boons if that is the way a person chooses to use it.

Guardian has aegis. I throw scorpion wire and remove the aegis while stealing in almost immediately to go hard on the condition damage.

I wanted to remove the block not pull the opponent to me = Success!!!

I love it on the enemy who has reflect up (even if I don't realize they have reflect up)

Throw the wire.  Get pulled to them. Use my auto attack till their reflect drops...

#3 "Shadow Strike" which inflicts conditions then #3 again for repeater. Then a second #3 Repeater. 

In this case I've used the scorpion wire to close the distance successfully. It doesn't matter if it was my being pulled to them. My goal was to close the distance.  

=== Success.

 On a necro though I use it just for the pull ability because it will pull that necro almost every time and put my opponent where I want them to be, not where they planned to be. = Success. 

Condensed version.  Just because description says "pull" does not mean you absolutely have to use it as a "pull ". Think outside the box and use for whatever use you find for it.

Edited by Jitters.9401
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