The current state of Revenant

[Thornwolf.9721]

So I’ve been a Revenant player since HoT and it was the life-blood of what kept me in game; I don’t care much for the other classes as much as I would like. I was a warrior main prior to the revenants reveal and inclusion in the game. I remember how it felt then vs how it feels now, I remember how it felt when I consider it to be at its pique outside of a few bad area’s and at this point I want to discuss why the class is suffering, where its suffering and why the dev’s are showcasing what happens when there is no party in the club-house that holds passion for a class. (None of them likely care/know/understand or want to understand this class and it really shows.)



For one revenant when HoT came out was like the magical version of warrior in a ton of ways, it offered a lot of unique gameplay and unique features. Mallyx for example was the anti-condi king and while he wasn’t as good as he later became (mainly because he was overshadowed by power rev at the time) he was always serviceable.

Jalis suffered for sure and so did ventari, but both of them are in a better state now to where if the rest of rev didn’t feel so poopy I’m sure it’d just be more options rather than necessities (Jalis) for so many builds.


Now here is where things get spicy, for one Invocation was at the time the best tree because of what it offered. It was our utility tree. Now? Well now its just damage amps really; There is nothing in there of value outside of the increases to damage and in a ton of ways for various builds it’s absolutely nessacary if you want to get the most out of the spec.  This was what they were trying to get away from by removing incensed response which broke CC’s every.single.time. we legend swapped which its removal IMO was a mistake. Why? Well simple. We have no reliable way to break CC now. We also outside of mallyx and jalis (Two legends you might not run depending on build) have no real way to deal with condition pressure.


So what do we have as a class when we really look at it now after the changes we’ve had over the years?

•  

1. We’re slower than a thief
2. We have less sustain that most other classes
3. Our damage is lower than a good chunk of the cast
4. Our utility is incredibly niche if not applicable in most cases
5. Guardian does everything we can do better
6. Warrior is a better bruiser

Now the reason I bring up warrior and guardian, is because both of those classes are in our weight bracket. Notice how ranger, engineer and thief all fulfill different roles and even if there is overlap they handle the hurdles differently? Well…

~Willbender is just a better variant of herald, same basic role and gameplay. Same basic feel it just has all of guardian’s tools backing it up. The cc and cc mitigation and the ability to purge condi’s if it chooses

~Warrior as a whole is a better variant of power revenant.


I bring all of this up because I'm aiming more at power Revenant than I am at condition revenant as the condition version of revenant is honestly not entirely that bad. No matter what form it is far more serviceable outside of vindicator of course; Condition herald and condition renegade and even condition core are all strong in their own right but they all kind of cover a very similar role. Renegade just has the benefit/curse of being able to give alacrity which seems to be A-net’s answer to everything. “Is something broken or weak? Just give it quickness and alacrity and its better!”



Power herald, core, vindicator and renegade all suffer pretty bad. Renegade not as much (It’s got its own issues but its still by far the strongest option.)  Vindicator suffers from a cluttered design and a lack of understanding as to what makes Revenant feel good. Herald has just been gutted and hit with the nerf bat a ton due to QQ and again its advocate (as well for the whole class) and creator no longer being with us. And core? Well core suffers because in their crusade to “balance” power rev they’ve taken from its utility and weapons too much.

 

Spoiler

Honestly, sword/sword needs every single change to the functionality to its skills redone. Projectiles added back to the 2 and shackling waves block being returned so that we have a block on a weapon outside of greatsword.  Then we could call it square as you could leave its overall damage where it is currently.


Staff Revert all of the changes. Period. What you’ve done to this weapon is horrendous


Hammer? Same as staff. If longbow on rangers can exist than hammer as it existed should be fine.

Give us back incensed response, keep the weapon sigil proc off legend swap. But you claimed you removed incensed response due to the weapon sigils proccing on legend swap? Well, it no longer works like that. So make it so legend swap breaks CC’s and counts as a CC break. This would work with current energy costs as you want to be swapping as much as possible to get as much from the class as possible. I’d prefer this be a core mechanic that doesn’t need to be traited at all and is just rolled right into legend swap. This would then give us a method to deal with CC more reliably and means IF YOU WANT you can re-evaluate some of our CC break skills and either work them around to be different in function or purpose.


Rework Shiro. Just outright rework the whole legend. Jade winds in current form is horrible and is not worth using and costs too much, jade daggers is fine but it should likely have some added benefits. Im ok with the other utilities I think that phase transversal and the dodge need its energy lowered, it costs a ton to engage with shiro which seems to be the idea of the legend. You engage and begin there and swap to your utility legend of choice. (Glint, jalis, alliance)


Rework vindicator, this spec is a mess. I don’t even know where to start but it’s just a mess and it feels so weak when compared to all the other specs in the game right now.

Give us ONE MORE CORE ranged option. Slap it in invocation as the weapon for that, it can literally be anything at this point as long as we have a weapon we can use for core and the rest of rev that is NOT renegade. It doesn’t need to be a shortbow ideally, I think scepter would be FINE for this as it is a conduit and historically a cool casting weapon. A long-ranged scepter would be cool, make it work like trident where it’s based on legend in use.


Rework shield on herald. (It’s just a bad weapon, it has a cool Idea but honestly it needs to feel different and work differently. It used to be great at HoT’s launch but then you nerfed the heck out of it and it’s just been pointless.) Maybe if sword offhand has its block back, shield doesn’t need one? Maybe it can offer something different from a block… like a dodge or a reflect? Im sure there are some cool options.

 

 

 

All in all you’ve taken a ton from this class, and it sucks because it was so much fun. Now it’s a meme and honestly, I don’t know why you thought any of this was a good Idea? I’d take shaved damage over scrapped mechanics and utility pulled off my class any day. Stop trying to make us a one trick pony and stop trying to push stuff like this forward; I prefer power rev over condi. I just always have because it felt cool and good, was super fluid and now its clunky. Like so much else in this game its chunkiness is apparent because of how smooth it used to feel.


Please just fix this. I’d be ok if our damage was where it was had we not been gutted of our mechanics so hard, but now its just way too apparent.


TL;DR : Give us back the utility/mechanics you took away, weapon sigils proccing on legend swap was a decent trade. But give us back the CC break on weapon swap which was taken away due to the sigil proc and make the weapons work like they used too.


~Thanks for reading

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

What game mode(s) are you talking about?  It's hard for me to fully agree or disagree with anything written here because some of what you say applies to one game mode while not necessarily being fully applicable to another.  I would include specific PvE vs WvW vs PvP feedback as it would help bolster your arguments a bit more than a "general feeling" type post

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Revenant as whole need complete redo, in current state it goes nowhere and its not even the same class it was back at hot launch.

I am still on the opinion of getting rid of the weapon swap and start reworking from there. Start point would be to redo the whole legend system and how utility skills itself function. Technically it was meant to be a tool to help you adjust to combat situation but instead you literally have to swap every 10sec even if other utility bar is not something you desire.

 

 

[Buran.3796]

19 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

I am still on the opinion of getting rid of the weapon swap and start reworking from there. Start point would be to redo the whole legend system and how utility skills itself function. 

   If the next expansion contains new specializations (not sure at all about that) you can bet the next trade off for Revenant will be "no weapon swap" (as happened to Bladesworn) or "two arms broken" or something similar...  The interesting part is: core Rev already isn't as interesting or appealing or unique as a profession design as was in the past; is just a slower thief which must pay cooldowns AND energy to use its skills (and with a very poor selection sof weapons which barely have any use in most of the game modes).

   Aside for that, I overall agree with the diagnosis but not with the treatment.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

46 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   If the next expansion contains new specializations (not sure at all about that) you can bet the next trade off for Revenant will be "no weapon swap" (as happened to Bladesworn) or "two arms broken" or something similar...  The interesting part is: core Rev already isn't as interesting or appealing or unique as a profession design as was in the past; is just a slower thief which must pay cooldowns AND energy to use its skills (and with a very poor selection sof weapons which barely have any use in most of the game modes).

   Aside for that, I overall agree with the diagnosis but not with the treatment.

Many players, many opinions, ideas and so on.

In the end as long we all agree that rev needs fundemental rework its all good to me.

 

I personally prefer no swap approach like it originally meant to be. Also going back into the more evil roots like thief and necro cuz right now im not sure what rev identify is exactly. Mix between warrior and thief in playstyle with a light guardian theme is how i would describe rev

 

[Thornwolf.9721]

15 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

What game mode(s) are you talking about?  It's hard for me to fully agree or disagree with anything written here because some of what you say applies to one game mode while not necessarily being fully applicable to another.  I would include specific PvE vs WvW vs PvP feedback as it would help bolster your arguments a bit more than a "general feeling" type post

Competitive modes in general, both WvW and PvP. Again its serviceable but it feels like it falls and lags behind quite a lot when compared to the other classes; PvE we also suffer from "Renegade" or bust in most situations as unless you like a specific spec there is absolutely no reason to not just main Ren. So for me who despises renegade and has since its inception I feel like my class is unwanted in 90% of end game content outside of when Im running with close friends or my partner. Which is basically the only time I run PvE at all anymore. (Im a herald/core lover, the other two specs are lost on me. Vindicator feels weak) 

~Hope that helps, but this is just general feelings overall acrossed all content that I've noticed and have been feeling. I've felt it for a while but only recently do I feel it as heavily as I have; Mostly a good chunk of this comes down to competitive though. As most all mechanics in the game don't apply at all in PvE. You don't need condi cleanses, cc breaks, blocks or any such in PvE. Just blow it up with bust and you're good to go.

 

 

1 hour ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Many players, many opinions, ideas and so on.

In the end as long we all agree that rev needs fundemental rework its all good to me.

 

I personally prefer no swap approach like it originally meant to be. Also going back into the more evil roots like thief and necro cuz right now im not sure what rev identify is exactly. Mix between warrior and thief in playstyle with a light guardian theme is how i would describe rev

 

The class just needs mechanically to be reverted in a few area's, weapons need their utility or damage returned and of course we need to offer more on our utilities. The fact that nothing in shiro gives us any meaningful boons? OR glint just really being an inferior might bot? Like it needs to be updated to have modern boon application and sustain and it needs to have each spec be reviewed for its role. 

Like vindicator can't fulfill its role, its a power dps spec but it has conditions in its utilities and the greatsword is a noodle. (After the nerfs) it's kind of a one trick pony 

 

 

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   If the next expansion contains new specializations (not sure at all about that) you can bet the next trade off for Revenant will be "no weapon swap" (as happened to Bladesworn) or "two arms broken" or something similar...  The interesting part is: core Rev already isn't as interesting or appealing or unique as a profession design as was in the past; is just a slower thief which must pay cooldowns AND energy to use its skills (and with a very poor selection sof weapons which barely have any use in most of the game modes).

   Aside for that, I overall agree with the diagnosis but not with the treatment.

I'm not sure how they'd fix it without remaking the class then, either its mechanics get returned and its utility and damage gets spruced or they have to put it under revision and remake the revenant to fit "Their vision" but if they do that can we be certain it will still be the class we love? I doubt it. A-net clearly doesn't know anything about the class.

[Howluffu.7259]

Would it be that OP if revenant could choose healing, utilites and elite for 2 "free choosing legends" at the cost of 1 weapon set? I would like to have that. 

F1 could be "switch mode" so you have 2 free chosen set of utilites. It can even switch the mode of your weapon attacks(melee mode in 1 and range mode in the other switched mode). That could alleviate the lack of range options.

E.g.  Sword 1 do 900 or 1000 range air mist slashes. Sword 5 does a backward teleport to disengage enemy applying cripple. And similar skills for the rest of the weapons. Hammer could be use for melee too that way and shortbow melee aoes bomb kit style.

 

If only whises came true...

Edited April 25, 2022 by Howluffu.7259

[Infinity.2876]

Dev1 : what should we do for the 9th profession

Dev2:* shrug*

Dev1: let's do everything!

Dev2: whoopie *sarcastic* our jobs done let's get coffee.

This isn't to say I don't like rev it's ok just can't really get into the flow of it.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[Lord Zig.9812]

Yeah what I see in my rev,

Heavy armour - completely useless tank, Seriously my light armour ele can tank better.

Damage output - hmmm pitiful EVERY other class has it spanked.

Group boons hahahahaha.

Sustain - Run away!.

Variety in weapons and play styles, there is like 3 ways you can play it as most are useless in most situations.

 

The Rev has some fun mechcanics but is all round trash... its just taking up a character spot now, as I'm never gonna play it again. If it didn't have a couple of maxed critical crafting skills, I would have deleted it long ago.

[otto.5684]

1 hour ago, Lord Zig.9812 said:

Yeah what I see in my rev,

Heavy armour - completely useless tank, Seriously my light armour ele can tank better.

Damage output - hmmm pitiful EVERY other class has it spanked.

Group boons hahahahaha.

Sustain - Run away!.

Variety in weapons and play styles, there is like 3 ways you can play it as most are useless in most situations.

 

The Rev has some fun mechcanics but is all round trash... its just taking up a character spot now, as I'm never gonna play it again. If it didn't have a couple of maxed critical crafting skills, I would have deleted it long ago.

Why would you necro an 8 month old thread? May I add, this is a terribly constructed thread, as it does address issues by game mode. And for pve, it is mostly is outdated and even for 8 month ago, it had many flat out wrong information.

 

[Yasai.3549]

2 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

Why would you necro an 8 month old thread? May I add, this is a terribly constructed thread, as it does address issues by game mode. And for pve, it is mostly is outdated and even for 8 month ago, it had many flat out wrong information.

 

Not to mention the things he said were also ridiculously wrong, especially the concept that Heavy Armor = Tank. 
Only thing I can agree with is the lack of weapon choice because this is a sore spot for Revenant forever. 

[Zero.1028]

It hurts me when people say Rev doesn't have enough sustain. Vindi has 2 heals, a cleanse, 2 stun breaks, and a really good block on GS. If you need more cc or another block use staff. Renegade is still great at condi and kiting even after the nerfs. Core probably is the only thing that really needs to be looked at in PvE and maybe sPvP. 

Condi Ren literally dominated dps for the longest time so I have no idea how people say Rev doesn't do enough dmg. Alac Ren was great dps as well before they nerfed the passive and even now you can still run it if you need an alac. Vindi is super underrated when it comes to dps, it's got a really easy rotation and the benchmark is around 32-35k camping gs, that's enough for any instanced PvE content. I don't even have to talk about quickness Herald since we all know it's meta atm

In terms of WvW and PvP Vindi is great for DPS, the only time I'm out dpsed is by a tempest or Zerk in a choke. In long fights Vindi does more than enough, it destroys people. The roaming builds are fun for any of the Rev elites. Herald and Ren are still great for roaming and dualing in spvp. Vindi takes a bit to learn in sPvP but it's an amazingly fun class to play. 

There are downsides to Rev but not in terms of sustain, dps, or playability. A lot of the things mentioned are player skill issues

 

 

[Arklite.4013]

As someone who mained warrior for the massive stretch of time that it was terrible, it is so strange to see people saying things like "warrior does everything we do better"

[Shagie.7612]

3 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

As someone who mained warrior for the massive stretch of time that it was terrible, it is so strange to see people saying things like "warrior does everything we do better"

mmo players have the collective memory of a goldfish
anything past like 2 weeks ago is long forgotten

anyways rene pretty bad in spvp lol, shortbow renegod was dumb when it w keyed around spamming 1111, but dang it was already not great and now things like tempest and cata exist with what feels like permanent projectile denial/reflection
needs some hefty changes that it will probably not see

[Esufer.8762]

19 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

mmo players have the collective memory of a goldfish
anything past like 2 weeks ago is long forgotten

I don't think it's even this, I think there's a lot of echoing of certain ideas in MMOs with any perception of class imbalance, and a lot of parroting of the last thing that they heard about their class that they agreed with. Although in GW2 there's the added problem of people missing when their class gets rebalanced/buffed, so often people complain that X needs buffs or nerfs long after it's been balanced.

[Buran.3796]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:01 AM, Zero.1028 said:

It hurts me when people say Rev doesn't have enough sustain. Vindi has 2 heals, a cleanse, 2 stun breaks, and a really good block on GS. If you need more cc or another block use staff. Renegade is still great at condi and kiting even after the nerfs. 

   The thread is old and the first replies are now out on context, but imo  the topic aged well in the sense that the PvP decay along 2022 did nothing but increase the gap between what was meta and everything else.

   Vindi had two ninuscle 733 HP heals designed to be used very often, each 10 seconds, which now have a 30s cooldown in PvP, making it easily the worst Rev heal in the game. Whereas in the past (summer) we saw some bold MAT Vindicators running gs + swords, you now only find out gs + staff which rely on disengage from fights and the stack of blocks and evades fumbling around untill they release Eternity's Requiem, exactly every 20 seconds. That's the only "good" PvP build Rev currently has, since power Herald is unable to endure a fight vs any other meta build, and while has better cc than Vindi lacks the AoE damage. Renegade not only is hard countered by the projectile hate of the meta, but also is severely lacking in mobility and cc vs EoD specs.

   Both Herald and Renegade were nerfed pre EoD to assert EoD specs dominance and grant sales, and I think that ANet had success in the strategy since I didn't touche power Herald in PvP in tha last 12 months...

   In PvE things are different since Herald is now meta in instanced groups, delivering offensive support with quickness + alacrity. My problem is that I don't play instanced content, and in OW PvE power Herald is just a mediocre build (same with Vindi). Condi Mirage does the thing faster without even using the heals, and I don't even known what the Mesmer skills do...

   WvW is probably the place in which Rev works best: Herald is still a thing in zergs and Vindi is viable in roaming (albeit professions with stealth or ranged characters as Harbingers or Virtuosos easily will crush you. Our game is slow and predictable, our moves are weak...

   Pre nerfs Renegade felt much better, honestly. Now there's no reason to chose it outside doing camp-flipping speedruns. And even that, once you have rank 1226 and the WvW abilities are fully unlocked, the game mode doesn't have much more to provide: WvW has been the same since PoF, and I think that The Alliances will do for WvW the same as EoD did for PvP: to kill the game mode. You can only starve with lack of content for so much.

Recapping: PvE: Renegade has some uses due has range, but there's better choices. WvW: Vindi is playable but you lack cc so vs some specs you don't have any chance. PvP: Rev has a single card (Vindi) and I don't like how it moves in that game mode, which also don't touch too much lately.

[otto.5684]

@Buran.3796 Power rev builds are pretty good in pve instanced content. In OW, they are not only good, they are terrific. Vindicator can maintain 100% quickness, close to 100% 25 might stacks, has high evade uptime, a block, strong sustain, very high burst, massive aoe and strong overall damage. It is not the best build to solo things that should not be soloed, but it can solo most champions. And herald shares most of that, with a bit less damage and aoe. 
 

If your aim is to solo dungeons (or equivalent), that is way outside the realm of class balance and design. 

[SleepyBat.9034]

I tried a power herald build in wvw at one point, I really didn't like the lack of condition cleanse.

[Buran.3796]

On 1/4/2023 at 10:50 PM, otto.5684 said:

@Buran.3796 Power rev builds are pretty good in pve instanced content. In OW, they are not only good, they are terrific. Vindicator can maintain 100% quickness, close to 100% 25 might stacks, has high evade uptime, a block, strong sustain, very high burst, massive aoe and strong overall damage. It is not the best build to solo things that should not be soloed, but it can solo most champions. And herald shares most of that, with a bit less damage and aoe. 
 

If your aim is to solo dungeons (or equivalent), that is way outside the realm of class balance and design. 

   Vindicator can have permanent access to fury, quickness, 25 might stacks and have 100% crit chance and over 200% crit damage, with big AoE bursts and solid sustained damage...   against a golem.

   As a Vindicator, when in PvE you are engaged in fights at which you are forced to defend to avoid enemy mechanics your dps falls like a rock, and you will often be forced to block/evade/retreat oftenly. Preventing dangerous attacks from foes usually requires cc, and  as a Vindi with a greatsword + Alliance the cc available is close to 0. Moving to legacy cc sources (staff's #5, Jali's Forced Engagement, Shiro's Jade Winds...) not only degrades the basic damage but also interrupts the whole perma quickness/fury/might stacks which ends in much lower dps numbers. So that big AoE bursts and high sustained dps are there mostly vs regular creeps or bosses which allows you to tank their hits due aren't dangerous enough to be a treat.

   Another problem is range: once you you meet a fight which requires to move away at some phases your dps either falls to 0 or demands you to wield a hammer, arguably one of the worst PvE ranged weapons in the game. But some times you need a ranged option even in OW large events, like Dragon Stand or Domain of Istan:  in domain, if you run a pure mele build and you arrive 8-10 seconds late after a champion have been focused (because a mob hit you after killing the previous champ and you lost seconds getting out of combat to ride your mount) the chances are it will be killed before you even touch him. The same happens in Dragonfall: the big event is mostly a ladder of speedruns vs every new event, and you have very narrow windows of seconds to tag every enemy you can before the zerg of players delete the targets and move to the next event.

   Is also not like we get a big reward (damage) in exchange for the risk: fighting a champ with no special mechanics/defiance bar and which lacks one-shooters, as the Mordrem Vinetooth in Auric Basin: usually takes me ~70 seconds to kill him with my Vindi, whereas is less than 60 seconds with my rifle Mechatist (post nerfs) and 52 seconds with my traiblazer Mirage. And I known why: I'm manually leveling a new Mesmer (no tomes, no crafting, no boosters) and is being a walk in the park, the clones do the tanking for me and my blocks/evades don't slower my damage due they are part of my attacks and the condis keep proccing.

   Another funny example are the Bristleback veterans (specially the buffed ones in WvW): they have no value per se, but are good milestones to check weakness in builds. They have high HP and armor, and a 7 seconds super hard hitting channeled attack wich auto tracks released each 15 seconds, which can prevented breaking the defiance bar: a sor of mini-boss. Most builds can't one-shoot them, so you have to either disable them and do as much damage as possible in a short period or use a lot of defensive tools. Of course is a bisased choice since for a Auramancer Ele they are like ants, but for a lot of builds they are big troubles. Best Vindi PvE build I saw against a WvW Bristleback in the pre-grestaword-nerfs Vindi betas killed them in like 20 seconds (and almost dying) whereas my Willbender tears them in 11 seconds and my condi Herald and condi Renegade does it around 22 seconds (fairly safe). My power Vindi or Herald? They usually die.

   This is not a moan, anyway: I known that the design of each spec is different and would make no sense to make them entirely equal (despite ANet is clearly making some classes to lose a lot of personality since they realized that every class needed to have access to quickness, alacrity, aegis and so on...). Vindi and Herald are fine; is just that since they don't work as they did (Herald) and they seem extremely complex for the final output/performance they deliver (Vindicator) I see no reason to keep using them in PvE. So they are now alt parked characters in my book.

[Esufer.8762]

rev gud

rev fun

encouragement from best friend shiro when fite

gud class

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I don't think revs effectiveness is bad, but I do believe its combat concept is all over the place and doesn't mesh with how the game is designed. each legend works so independently different that one of the legends is pointless when using anything but a dps build. the weapons don't mesh outside of shortbow and mace+axe. Vindicator feels better in effectiveness now, but it's concept feels weak and isn't really anything that stands out besides the dodge, which lost flavor for balance. GS and sword take up the same role and feel kinda like overkill on the same bar, but need something when things are on cooldown. and youre right, staff was butchered. Loved using it as a dps secondary weapon with imposssible odds. off hand sword was kittened just to put a burst skill on it and to supplement the overcosted phase traversal.

When it was intially revealed and had a sort of dark warrior vibe, but that was kinda thrown out the window or a misinterpretation, but the edginess with the blindfold and mist magic would have been a much stronger concept.

So yeah, I'd like a lot of things redone that are just unrealistic. I love rev, but I think they missed out on a lot of what it could be with weird choices. A lot of the legends are just bland.

[Yasai.3549]

On 1/3/2023 at 2:46 AM, Shagie.7612 said:

anyways rene pretty bad in spvp lol, shortbow renegod was dumb when it w keyed around spamming 1111, but dang it was already not great and now things like tempest and cata exist with what feels like permanent projectile denial/reflection
needs some hefty changes that it will probably not see

Sucks that Core Revenant weapon options for Condi is basically non-existent. 

At least with old Precision Strike, you could kinda cheese out using MH Sword as a semi Condi defensive weapon swap due to the 3x Chill. Chilling Isolation for Condi is just a direct nerf compared to old Precision Strike so it's not even worth using due to the very tight AoE. 

You know what I really miss? Corruption traitline actually having Condi application minor like every other Condi traitline that other Professions do.  
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rampant_Vex 
Rest in peace my sweet child, I've missed you the most because you made crit building on Condi Rev actually somewhat work out. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[vilesoldier.9826]

3 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

You know what I really miss? Corruption traitline actually having Condi application minor like every other Condi traitline that other Professions do.

 

Invoking Torment - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) 

This ain't a condi application minor?

[Shagie.7612]

8 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Sucks that Core Revenant weapon options for Condi is basically non-existent. 

Honestly I just wanna be a little shootymans with a bow because I find them fun, and I dislike pet classes. I don't care if it's condi or power. Pretty much leaves DH or Rene for SPvP (let's pretend condi spb doesn't exist atm because it's unintentional and also war longbow feels awful).

But I think what you're getting at is that classes at their core are pretty limited, and elite specs are the only things that bring certain playstyles/builds/archetypes into the realm of possibility. Core Rev has one condi set, Core War has zero condi utilities, stuff like that.

And so if an elite spec happens to be bad at any given moment, that playstyle is pretty much done until it's not. If Renegade had really bad traits/skills, condi rev is in huge trouble unless every other part of it is overtuned. It's almost nonfunctional without it, in PvE, at least.

Elite specs have always been intended to bring a new playstyle to a class, like druid giving ranger the support build it never had, and that's great in some ways, but also incredibly restricting in others and very much at the mercy of patch rollercoasters.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

10 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Sucks that Core Revenant weapon options for Condi is basically non-existent. 
 

Mace/ax I guess doesn't exist with Mallyx.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360