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I hate what DPS meters have done to PVE endgame...


Jarvis.9540

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Abakk.9176 said:According to people posting in this thread, what you suggest is already dissapearing. At some point every wannabe will demand the highest possible DPS for the lowest instance.... because it saves time.... o.O

And? What's that has to do with dps-meters? That happens with and without dps-meters, those are irrelevant.What's your alternative? To force players to take bad players with them for the fun of it? Even against their will? Aren't you being selfish here?

Isn't each player's choice to do what they want in the game? After all players should always have the choice to choose who they are playing with.

Keep up the charade man. Just pretend we didnt just filled 20 pages going to and fro over the same things.

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@Feanor.2358 said:

@Abakk.9176 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Abakk.9176 said:Yeah, i suppose if you consider talking about DPS- meters is utterly irrelevant to the issue of DPS-meters in a thread about DPS-meters..... o.O

As more than a few people explained to you, multiple times I might add!, dps-meters are NOT an issue if everyone is playing in groups of like minded individuals. Since when you are playing with players that want a casual run, or a "let's go explore around" run or whatever, you won't even SEE the dps-meters in front of you.So, if you took your time to find groups for YOU, you wouldn't see the DPS-meters in the first place. If you did that, there would be no misery, no suffering, no negative effects of the dps meters at all. Therefore, dps meters are not the issue, since there IS a solution, a very easy solution at that.

According to people posting in this thread, what you suggest is already dissapearing. At some point every wannabe will demand the highest possible DPS for the lowest instance.... because it saves time.... o.O

Except not. Time is not a factor, risk is. Nobody wants or expects qT-level dps. People want sufficient dps in order to keep risk minimal. And frankly what people really want is experienced teammates. Just doing decent dps and failing mechanics is just another way to fail and is equally annoying.

People will demand the highest numbers on the meters or else you can gtfo. Been there, seen it, experienced it first hand... over and over.

But you and friends can go on pretending you know it all. I'll never run into that toxic lot anymore anyway.

Have fun :)

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Two days ago, I stubbled uppon a fractal I never did before (Aethersomething) and I quickly told the party that I don't know the fractal. It was no problem, the guys were willing to tell everything before a fight what I needed to do. We stayed in that fractal around 40 minutes, and I don't think I was the cause of that (I think it was our composition, cause once a guard replaced someone, things got easier). Once we finally completed, I felt like we saved Tyria (even though we just defeated an giant asura with a gun). That was special, and the people I did it with became more than just tools to my next shiny item.But on another note, every time I go in a fractal and my team just wipes because they have no defensive stats (or can't dodge) and time after I'm left ressing them (eli with marauder armor here), I just leave.So I guess there's a side to each argument, I guess. We could be more pacient, but limited pacience.

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The game just doesn't seem well suited for DPS metters since combat here involve so much more than optimizing a 4-5 spells rotation like in WoW.

Also sounds like the guys in the OP's story forgot that a dead DPS does no DPS.

Metter-whores who can't do mechanics shouldn't be considered good players regardless of what they can output on a patchwerk Golem.

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@STIHL.2489 said:ya know, I have parties at my house where we play puzzle games, an brain teasers, never in my life have I felt the need to call someone names, belittle them, because they were bad at it, or even quiz or question them to see if they were worthwhile to have on my team, and never.. in my entire life have I ever felt the urge to throw someone out of my house if they caused my team to lose.

So, do you advertise these parties on the internet and have total strangers walking up to your door? Or, do you invite people you know or are at least acquainted with to these parties? Your comparison suffers because the social situations are not the same.

There are unstated behavioral expectations in social situations among friends and acquaintances. What would happen if you invited a friend, he brought one of his friends (whom you did not know), and this guy spent the entire evening sabotaging the games and making rude comments to another guest? Would you ask him to leave? If you wouldn't, would you invite him back? If some random guy walked in off the street, would you allow him to stay if he violated whatever behavioral expectations you might have for guests?

The social expectations in random groups forming in GW2 are set by ANet. Those expectations are limited to not using hate speech, or performing other actions barred by the ToS. There is nothing in the ToS about having to play with anyone who happens to walk in the virtual door, no matter what he wants or how he behaves.

There seems to be a belief shared by some that removing someone from an LFG party who does not meet the expectations of the host is rude. I don't believe it is in a situation in which the host has set up ground rules for the party and the person has ignored those rules. Rather, I believe I would be being rude if I walked into a party and expected them to abandon their preferences for my convenience.

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@Abakk.9176 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Abakk.9176 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Abakk.9176 said:Yeah, i suppose if you consider talking about DPS- meters is utterly irrelevant to the issue of DPS-meters in a thread about DPS-meters..... o.O

As more than a few people explained to you, multiple times I might add!, dps-meters are NOT an issue if everyone is playing in groups of like minded individuals. Since when you are playing with players that want a casual run, or a "let's go explore around" run or whatever, you won't even SEE the dps-meters in front of you.So, if you took your time to find groups for YOU, you wouldn't see the DPS-meters in the first place. If you did that, there would be no misery, no suffering, no negative effects of the dps meters at all. Therefore, dps meters are not the issue, since there IS a solution, a very easy solution at that.

According to people posting in this thread, what you suggest is already dissapearing. At some point every wannabe will demand the highest possible DPS for the lowest instance.... because it saves time.... o.O

Except not. Time is not a factor, risk is. Nobody wants or expects qT-level dps. People want sufficient dps in order to keep risk minimal. And frankly what people really want is experienced teammates. Just doing decent dps and failing mechanics is just another way to fail and is equally annoying.

People will demand the highest numbers on the meters or else you can gtfo. Been there, seen it, experienced it first hand... over and over.

But you and friends can go on pretending you know it all. I'll never run into that toxic lot anymore anyway.

Have fun :)

I don't have to pretend, I play this on a daily basis. Once again, nobody wants or expects qT-level dps. Of course, there might be exceptions. Leave and join the next party, problem solved.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Rhanoa.3960 said:If all else fails whip out the
Entitlement Punch Card
which comes with perks and rewards, maybe a $5 dollar savings after 9 excuses.

But he is right, this is all an entitlement issue, otherwise threads like this wouldn't exist.It boils down to this: "I play this game just for fun, why not everyone else does the same?"Which has the simple answer: "Different people find different things
fun
".Maybe once you accept that not everyone thinks like you, and that they shouldn't think like you anyway, you can move on.Play with players that think like you and those who don't think like you can play with each other.Why is this so hard to understand? Why do you want everyone else to change their idea of fun to match yours? Who are you to define what's fun and what''s not?

Thank you for rolling out the red carpet of another pointless explanation of why I need to understand. I very well understand both sides and have taken my position on it already and I'm not going to explain myself if you can't take to time to read through this thread and see where exactly I nail it.

This is in fact far from ENTITLEMENT! This is about a 3rd party software vs How the game was originally intended to be played.

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@Haishao.6851 said:

@Rhanoa.3960 said:

@Haishao.6851 said:Blaming DPS meter because you cannot get into end game group is like blaming your bathroom scale because you cannot get into a sport team.

@Lillium.6481 said:Also, this game, like GW1, was supposed to have build variety. I enjoy experimenting, and MANY of the meta builds are significantly less fun than slightly lesser alternatives that can still get the job done.

This game, like GW1, does have build variety. You can play a rifle warrior or a pistol engi if you want. But like a firestorm warrior or a longbow necro in GW1, it's bad.

GW1, like this game have what we called then "elite missions" UW, FoE, TopK, Urgoz Warren, The Deep, DoA were all end game content where specific builds were demanded by the community. You could make your own group that didn't require them, exactly like you can do in GW2.

The issue now is that you're allowed to invite yourself in group that don't want you. So they kick you out.The game is made that way and we have to deal with it.

Maybe anet could add a little tag on the LFG announcement like the language flags that says META. So it's clear and people can avoid joining them and get kicked.

Good grief!

The same can be said about why you have a friends list and up 5 guilds to join
so you have the option
of not listing yourself in LFG.

I imagine with your celebrity status you can easily muster up a good group of your friends whom you can bicker, brag, and measuring each other out.Just stop making excuses, you're just as much responsible for advertising it.

Also, the bathroom scale is pretty lame and insensitive thing to say, I know folks who suffer from overactive thyroid and weight gain.It also insinuates you cannot account for other conditions that may hinder someone's active lifestyle.

** If it's insensitive to tell the truth, then so be it.Bathroom scale do nothing else than give you knowledge about your current weight when you step on it.The people you know suffer from overactive thyroid, not overactive bathroom scale. I'm sorry for their condition, but it doesn't change the fact that a scale is not responsible for it.

I'm not a native english speaker and it's late so I don't really understand the sense of your last sentence but I think you mean I should be responsible for the disability of people? If so then you're very wrong. No one is responsible for your condition unless they're the one who caused it.If it's not what it meant, then sorry. But I will still hold you accountable of my disability of understanding that sentence properly. **

Now, PoF release soon and I need sleep. Good night.Whether or not you are a native speaker of whatever language means nothing. You're making a poor comparison into a what you feel is a valid argument. Making obesity jokes don't justify your claim as relevant. It's nothing more than distasteful, weak, and clueless.
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@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:ya know, I have parties at my house where we play puzzle games, an brain teasers, never in my life have I felt the need to call someone names, belittle them, because they were bad at it, or even quiz or question them to see if they were worthwhile to have on my team, and never.. in my entire life have I ever felt the urge to throw someone out of my house if they caused my team to lose.

So, do you advertise these parties on the internet and have total strangers walking up to your door? Or, do you invite people you know or are at least acquainted with to these parties? Your comparison suffers because the social situations are not the same.

There are unstated behavioral expectations in social situations among friends and acquaintances. What would happen if you invited a friend, he brought one of his friends (whom you did not know), and this guy spent the entire evening sabotaging the games and making rude comments to another guest?

I am going to preface my response by saying, if you can't handle the random chaos that is Pugging, then don't Pug.

With that said, when I host holiday parties, I encourage people to bring a +1, and while I get a name and their relation to the person I invited, more often then not, I have no earthly clue about who they are. But meeting new people is often fun and enjoyable.

Which gets to your next point, while how good or bad they may be able to play a game is irrelevant, we are here to have fun and socialize, above all other factors, and often if they openly admit to being bad I will invite them to play on my team, after all, they are a new guest, I am the host, it's the right thing to do, IMHO.

Now, with that out of the way, I am going to be very clear that I would not suffer anyone being rude to anyone else at my house, during what is to be a festive event, I don't care who you are, if you can't adult, stay home, end of discussion. Your skill is meaningless to me, your attitude is everything.

Which brings us back to GW2, elitist and toxic players, I avoid your groups, because I know you don't want my noobish play the way I want casual filth in your groups, equally so, I don't want toxic elitist scum in mine.

Can we all get along by not getting along?

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OP those elite raiders being rude in pugs are usually the players in dungeons and events that are constantly being rezzed. If you want to show them the respect they show you stop helping them in open world pve if they are constantly downed. Respect goes both ways.

Also watch the raid guides on YouTube and form your own pug raid and lead it.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:ya know, I have parties at my house where we play puzzle games, an brain teasers, never in my life have I felt the need to call someone names, belittle them, because they were bad at it, or even quiz or question them to see if they were worthwhile to have on my team, and never.. in my entire life have I ever felt the urge to throw someone out of my house if they caused my team to lose.

So, do you advertise these parties on the internet and have total strangers walking up to your door? Or, do you invite people you know or are at least acquainted with to these parties? Your comparison suffers because the social situations are not the same.

There are unstated behavioral expectations in social situations among friends and acquaintances. What would happen if you invited a friend, he brought one of his friends (whom you did not know), and this guy spent the entire evening sabotaging the games and making rude comments to another guest?

I am going to preface my response by saying, if you can't handle the random chaos that is Pugging, then don't Pug.

With that said, when I host holiday parties, I encourage people to bring a +1, and while I get a name and their relation to the person I invited, more often then not, I have no earthly clue about who they are. But meeting new people is often fun and enjoyable.

Which gets to your next point, while how good or bad they may be able to play a game is irrelevant, we are here to have fun and socialize, above all other factors, and often if they openly admit to being bad I will invite them to play on my team, after all, they are a new guest, I am the host, it's the right thing to do, IMHO.

Now, with that out of the way, I am going to be very clear that I would not suffer anyone being rude to anyone else at my house, during what is to be a festive event, I don't care who you are, if you can't adult, stay home, end of discussion. Your skill is meaningless to me, your attitude is everything.

Which brings us back to GW2, elitist and toxic players, I avoid your groups, because I know you don't want my noobish play the way I want casual filth in your groups, equally so, I don't want toxic elitist scum in mine.

Can we all get along by not getting along?

+1 'Your skill is meaningless to me, your attitude is everything awesome quote.

This is a great question as well - Do you value performance more than your attitude to others? (including poor performing strangers)

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@Rhanoa.3960 said:

Whether or not you are a native speaker of whatever language means nothing. You're making a poor comparison into a what you feel is a valid argument. Making obesity jokes don't justify your claim as relevant. It's nothing more than distasteful, weak, and clueless.

I made no joke.

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@Haishao.6851 said:

@Rhanoa.3960 said:

Whether or not you are a native speaker of whatever language means nothing. You're making a poor comparison into a what you feel is a valid argument. Making obesity jokes don't justify your claim as relevant. It's nothing more than distasteful, weak, and clueless.

I made no joke.

You should have just taken it as a gift and moved on, but you're right it was more of an insult.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:+1 'Your skill is meaningless to me, your attitude is everything awesome quote.This is a great question as well - Do you value performance more than your attitude to others? (including poor performing strangers)

Some of the longest strongest best memories I have of playing a game , where while some friends of mine (myself included) were getting our respective asses kicked, laughing the entire time, and cracking jokes about how bad we were, how these mobs were totally owning us.

So, while people that have the twitch skill to grind out hard content are handy, after all we, all like to win, they pale in comparison to someone that can bring joy even to a total fail event. We all know that guy that dies first, and yet.. some how you find yourself willing to pick them back up, and march on.. not because they won't die in the next encounter.. they will.. and do so spectacularly, but.. because they are fun to be around, so you end up not minding whatever else they.. ummm.. don't bring to the event as it were.

Think about this, how many of us would dump a skilled player with a bad attitude for a mediocre player with a positive attitude because it's not worth it suffer though that kind of negativity even if it would ensure a win?

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To everyone who keeps bringing up that exclusion existed before DPS meters:

Yes, it existed, this has NOT been in dispute. However, the fact remains, that exclusion and toxicity has increased since DPS meters were allowed. This FACT can be seen by the FACT that discussions like this one have become more frequent and heated since the addition of DPS meters. These discussions don't just pop up out of nowhere for no reason.

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  • 3 months later...

@"Jarvis.9540" said:Tonight in a t4 fractal PUG I got yelled at for temporarily attuning to water on my meta zerker elementalist (a build I've begrudgingly acquiesced into playing after seeing the party finder messages aimed at keeping my necro main from participating) after 3 of my 5 party members died, and I attempted to heal and rez everyone. I was sternly advised that my tempest is supposed to always be in fire or air. Weird. The main thing I liked about ele is its versatility and ability to hop into defense and save a party as needed. Apparently one of my party members was running "arc dps" (previously unknown to me - a tool that can show every party member's dps to each other) and saw that my dps dropped below his dead body's average numbers because he bursted the fight (ignoring mechanics) right up until he died while I tried to clean everyone up. It's a strange thing to be yelled at by a person that you are trying to save/rez because your dps numbers are dwindling while doing so.

This is my umpteenth night in a row dealing with folks shouting at each other (even if it's not always directed at me) over parsed dps numbers in higher-level fractals. I'm really tired of it.

This is more an issue of Pugging being pure cancer. Stop pugging, play your necro, have more fun.

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