End of Dragons - End of My Fun in Guild Wars 2

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's not a "completely optional event". It's an event Anet devs themselves called a culmination of 10 years of storyline. It is supposed to be the Event. And yet its something that's only for a small minority of players.

Basicaly, that "culmination of 10 years of GW2 storyline" ends up being a major disappointment for a large part of the community. Frankly, i'm not surprised people are not talking that well. I'm surprised however that devs don't seem to realize this is what is happening.

That's cool and all, but it's still optional, noone is forced to do it. 

[Izzy.2951]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nah. The completion rate goes up because the people with near zero success rate just stopped running it. Soon there will only be those 90% success rate groups left, which will mean that this will be fine, right? It will not matter that it will have participation rates on the level of Triple Trouble or Serpent Ire, right? It will be an epic culmination of 10 years of storyline, that barely anyone will be able to enjoy.

Yes, i think that's going to go really well.

The one that wants the changes is not me. And raid history should tell you exactly how well those changes you want will work out in the long run. Hint: not very well.

Sure, it has outsold PoF. Have you wondered, though, that most of the sales happened before people even had a chance of seeing EoD? And that nowadays it seems like old content seems to be significantly better populated than EoD - an expansion that is still very fresh and should be chock-full of players, but is not?

1. That people that havent done DE meta has stopped trying is your perception, cos i do it at least once a week and i see new people getting it.

2. Imaging this game without Raids, Strikes and Fractals... even more dead. Group content and challenges (aswell as pvp/wvw) is a MUST in an online game.

3. Games tends to sell less as time goes by (except some cases when they are very trending and improving). The fact that EoD have outsold PoF in such a short time, after big layoffs, untrust in the company and 5 years after... its still impresive. 

And overall, even tho xpac is not perfect and we could always look at the imperfections. EoD has the best story and quality in it, out of all the expansions.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Gorem.8104]

EoD, from what I've seen, is Anet's failed Expansion release. 
Its been the least players I've ever seen, I came back to the game a year ago today, and it was great to get back into the game after taking a six year break. I kept seeing the game grow, they had to even increase the size of the worlds for wvw. Had 2 awesome expansions to do that I have always mainly seen praise for. With the understandable critique's. People after all this time still do all of the HoT zones. People do Bounty trains in PoF zones all the time. (Which appears to be their only reason for being there, as when the train leaves, the map always closes). 
I was originally quite excited to be here for an expansion release, I see Muk too had his first experience for an expansion release be this one. And what a fail. The game was a better game the day before EoD released. Every update since EoD released has not improved the game but gone in the wrong direction. There is a massive lack of feedback being listened to. Warrior's are the least played class in the entire game and yet they get nerfs. 

Then you have the final meta, a raid boss encounter in the open world that even has the personal story push you towards. An open world encounter where you have no control who you are playing with or whose in what gear or what spec doing what. That has RNG and a tight timer. That requires 2 hours of work. That has no rewards even if you win, as their "10 year" event. All the masteries are terrible, Aborstone did not need to be a mastery track. Jade bots are much weaker then they should be. Essentially, all this expansion added, the only thing it added to the game, was fishing - which could have just been an update in itself to Tyria. 

Did the other expansions, weeks after release, need a future content update? Of course, lw1 was never released even, which means things are so bad they have to give us that to keep us playing. And even then, a lot of people seem to dislike Lw1. EoD felt like it needed another year of work. Another year of working on the E-specs so that all 9 were good without needing to nerf all previous specs the game has. HoT is alive today because the devs listened to feedback and nerfed it. EoD zones are soo dead. 

[Izzy.2951]

11 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

EoD, from what I've seen, is Anet's failed Expansion release. 
Its been the least players I've ever seen.

Cant even read more your post after the first sentence lol.

EoD has outsold last expansion and Gw2 is more active than in PoF even said by Devs. You can also look at Reddit, Twitch and other platform to see the high increse in activity. 

And they had some problems at start with making many maps so people were really spread, but it seems to be solve since weeks.

DE meta is not a Raid encounter, stop confusing people. You havent done raids if you say that.

They are releasing LWS1 to release Steam in the near future, so people have a connection, aswell as a new player experience. You have absolutly 0 knowledge about what you are talking, im amazed.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[SerCharizard.4826]

15 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I am not a fan of participation trophies. If there is not a potential for failure then my contribution to success is irrelevant. I like the DE meta, but improved rewards along the way might be nice so that, even if we dont manage to pull off a victory, there is a sense of time well spent anyway. Hope you can take this as an opportunity to reflect on what your group did well, and do more of that next time, and what it did poorly, and do less of that next time. GLHF.

OP points out the time:failure-rate, not the success:failure-rate per se: "I'm a casual gamer, work monday to friday, two days to play and relax... now imagine coming to the weekend, doing some Meta Event, spending 2 hours in an event and it fails, bad rewards."

 

Its not just that it has the potential to fail, but that it takes so long. Perhaps longer than people are willing to spend in a game mode where they might end up with nothing at the end. I personally don't see challenge in the 1hour pre-event, and its just a grind to get to the event that I want to do. Even in the main event I'd say only the final fight with Soo-Won has some challenge to it. It feels like the failure:success-rate solely depends on the final Soo-Won fight, which may be fair on its own. But I'm not convinced that automatically means the duration:failure-rate for the whole 2 hour meta is fair, particularly with the way you get almost all loot at the end. Personally, if it was just the 1hour main event, I might occasionally do the meta, but I'm also perfectly fine accepting that this content is just not for me.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by SerCharizard.4826
Fixed a poorly written sentence

[Gorem.8104]

5 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Gw2 is a Autoattack simulator. 

People say it's dead the moment it isn't. 

 

You know that is not how it goes, when people stop saying its dead, that's when its truly dead. The fact is, both sides existing is a fact, and its a fact that shouldn't be true and wasn't till EoD. Anet has created toxicity with DE by splitting the playerbase in half as they tried to combine players from all backgrounds into one area, instead of how its been done for the past 10 years, by keeping us all separate. 

[Gorem.8104]

18 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Cant even read more your post after the first sentence lol.

EoD has outsold last expansion and Gw2 is more active than in PoF even said by Devs. You can also look at Reddit, Twitch and other platform to see the high increse in activity. 

And they had some problems at start with making many maps so people were really spread, but it seems to be solve since weeks.

DE meta is not a Raid encounter, stop confusing people. You havent done raids if you say that.

They are releasing LWS1 to release Steam in the near future, so people have a connection, aswell as a new player experience. You have absolutly 0 knowledge about what you are talking, im amazed.

Then why reply to me if you skipped reading facts and explanations? You only prove my point at how toxic the place has become because of this playerbase split that will remain until either the game dies or DE is re-designed. 

[Izzy.2951]

4 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Then why reply to me if you skipped reading facts and explanations? You only prove my point at how toxic the place has become because of this playerbase split that will remain until either the game dies or DE is re-designed. 

I read your whole post after inspiring some air for some seconds. If you read my post i answered to all your points.

You are just proving that you are the toxic one here cos you dont like something. Cos saying "oh they are giving us LWS1 so we keep playing cos EoD was a fail" when 1st, EoD out sold pof and has more players and 2nd LWS4 started 2 MONTHS after PoF release XD, and comparing that to lws1 that for lot of ppl is not "new content" idk... its just speechless. If you dont know that they are puting that to prepare for steam, is just that your being the toxic one. And that can apply to most of your comments that are false.

[Izzy.2951]

15 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

You know that is not how it goes, when people stop saying its dead, that's when its truly dead. The fact is, both sides existing is a fact, and its a fact that shouldn't be true and wasn't till EoD. Anet has created toxicity with DE by splitting the playerbase in half as they tried to combine players from all backgrounds into one area, instead of how its been done for the past 10 years, by keeping us all separate. 

Anet havent created any toxicity. The toxicity comes from people that want Gw2 to be what they want or they will start 200 forum threads. DE meta is what it is, gw2 is a game of diversity we want chill content and challenges too, if you have any problem with that is basically your problem. And you should understand that ppl want to play other content than just spaming 1 on a Choya Pinata and logging off.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Izzy.2951]

And to be fair idk whats the problem with this event, since you have hundreds of metas where you can be semi-afk and farm them. Having 1 different meta that is a bit long and challenging really annoys you that much?..

Edited April 25, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Astralporing.1957]

6 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

That's cool and all, but it's still optional, noone is forced to do it. 

Imagine a popular TV series. You watch it season after season, keep up with the storyline. And after years of running the major story arc, it eventually ends in a grand finale. Which due to sudden changes in accessibility most of the people watching up to that point will never get to see.

That's precisely what happened here.

[Izzy.2951]

4 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Imagine a popular TV series. You watch it season after season, keep up with the storyline. And after years of running the major story arc, it eventually ends in a grand finale. Which due to sudden changes in accessibility most of the people watching up to that point will never get to see.

That's precisely what happened here.

1st theres nothing your missing if you did the personal story, and 2nd you can do it/watch it if you arent lazy.

I think this was a perfect end for a 10 year dragon story, an epic & "hard" event. Also the new training area in EoD + this kind of stuff is making the community improve and play more as a team, which is incredibly good and healthy for the game.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Izzy.2951 said:

1st theres nothing your missing if you did the personal story

That's not what Anet claims. They are the ones saying that this event is the culmination of the whole storyline, not me.

Just now, Izzy.2951 said:

I think this was a perfect end for a 10 year dragon story, an epic & "hard" event.

Yes, you would. Because you're part of the small minority that event is meant for. Most of the playerbase however is apparently not intended to be part of that "perfect end" at all.

Just now, Izzy.2951 said:

Also the new training area in EoD+this kind of stuff is making the community improve and play more as a team, which is incredibly good and healthy for the game.

You're naive if you think that this community will start improving now when in last 10 years Anet didn't manage to accomplish that already. All the approaches Anet has used now have been used before. That didn't change a thing. And no, it did not make the community play more as a team. If anything, it only increased the divisions within the community, and brought in question the one very basic OW rule - that in OW you were always supposed to be happy seeing another player around. In that event that is not true. You are happy seeing only a small, very selected group of players - all the others you'd want gone out of the map as soon as possible.

Also, the EoD training area teaches next to nothing that would be useful in last instance. Especially considering how inconsistent the completion requirements are for different tests, and how easily you can finish them by pure accident on some classes.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

23 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

You know that is not how it goes, when people stop saying its dead, that's when its truly dead. The fact is, both sides existing is a fact, and its a fact that shouldn't be true and wasn't till EoD. Anet has created toxicity with DE by splitting the playerbase in half as they tried to combine players from all backgrounds into one area, instead of how its been done for the past 10 years, by keeping us all separate. 

I thought a bit about what I can even say here. 

Talking about the fact that DEs problem is that it's just hard enough that good players can't carry anymore? 

The sheer stubbornness of people to improve and just want metas to be like chack Garant or drizzle wood that can be done by auto attacking only. 

 

I mean, we talk about people here so astronomically bad that the average Joe of the "toxic elites" deals more then 10 times the dmg. 

Which Anet said btw. 

I mean, should everything just continue as is? kitten easy metas that just throws tons gold at you? 

 

If the real world would work like Gw2 then 0.001% of the population actually would get out of the house each morning while the rest can't even be bothered to get out of bed. 

All while the second group gets 5-10times the pay. 

God I wish I, as a Wvw players, was as spoiled as you. 

 

 

[Izzy.2951]

24 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's not what Anet claims. They are the ones saying that this event is the culmination of the whole storyline, not me.

Yes, you would. Because you're part of the small minority that event is meant for. Most of the playerbase however is apparently not intended to be part of that "perfect end" at all.

You're naive if you think that this community will start improving now when in last 10 years Anet didn't manage to accomplish that already. All the approaches Anet has used now have been used before. That didn't change a thing. And no, it did not make the community play more as a team. If anything, it only increased the divisions within the community, and brought in question the one very basic OW rule - that in OW you were always supposed to be happy seeing another player around. In that event that is not true. You are happy seeing only a small, very selected group of players - all the others you'd want gone out of the map as soon as possible.

Also, the EoD training area teaches next to nothing that would be useful in last instance. Especially considering how inconsistent the completion requirements are for different tests, and how easily you can finish them by pure accident on some classes.

 

Why im part of a minority that like or have completed DE meta already? do you have any real stadistic that we are all missing? Or its this just another attempt to keep gw2 into a strict casual game (like watching a netflix series), and then complaining after that players outside gw2 have a wrong perception about the game.

No, you can clearly see people now understand better teams, boons, breakbars etc... thx to the training area (that hasnt been implemented before) and for having a "hard" event like DE, that hasnt been added before by Arenanet. So yes, i see theres is an improvement in the socialization and in the level of gameplay, and that Arenanet has applied a different strategy than before.

I can also see a lot of people fishing in groups or playing with the turtle, encouraging teamplay that hasnt been before.

PD: I hope more trainings area like the one in EoD will be implemented in the core game, aswell as some other stuff to learn stuff for endgame. That will highly increase ppl knowledge and level in the game, without having to look for 200 tutorials outside.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Gorem.8104]

10 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's not what Anet claims. They are the ones saying that this event is the culmination of the whole storyline, not me.

Yes, you would. Because you're part of the small minority that event is meant for. Most of the playerbase however is apparently not intended to be part of that "perfect end" at all.

You're naive if you think that this community will start improving now when in last 10 years Anet didn't manage to accomplish that already. All the approaches Anet has used now have been used before. That didn't change a thing. And no, it did not make the community play more as a team. If anything, it only increased the divisions within the community, and brought in question the one very basic OW rule - that in OW you were always supposed to be happy seeing another player around. In that event that is not true. You are happy seeing only a small, very selected group of players - all the others you'd want gone out of the map as soon as possible.

Also, the EoD training area teaches next to nothing that would be useful in last instance. Especially considering how inconsistent the completion requirements are for different tests, and how easily you can finish them by pure accident on some classes.

Exactly! DE was the first time I've seen in game, in open world, people put others on ignore or verbally attack and abuse others. Or name calling, I saw name calling even in the first area in Cantha due to the bug before, one persons name would be spread and flamed and hated on all over chat if they bugged it out by looting the chests early, as people thought that is what bugged it out at the time. 
I've seen other meta's fail, like Chark Garant last week had a failure, no one cared. No one yelled. No one flamed. No one hated. DE? Almost needed to turn the chat off. 

The game has always been about companionship in open world, others helping others. You see a downed player? you rez them, and more often then not a "TY" appears above their dead body you are ressing. Like people have and usually always are friendly, you want to see other players, doesn't matter their spec or gear stats or anything. That is what I have always loved about GW2, how friendly people are and how great it is to randomly group up with randoms and just have fun. 

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

18 hours ago, Nabunda.8327 said:

Games for me are synonymous with fun.

It all comes down to the definition of 'fun'. Some players enjoy a challenging content and are very disappointed with every nerf introduced to any of the encounters.

GW2 does pretty good job to deliver something for different kinds of players. In EoD Anet is testing some ideas, I like the direction they've taken tbh.

[Rasimir.6239]

2 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

DE was the first time I've seen in game, in open world, people put others on ignore or verbally attack and abuse others.

Good for you if you haven't seen anything like this before, but none of what you describe is in any way, shape, or form new to GW2. I've been in plenty of failed DE metas and haven't seen any flaming, but have seen plenty of flaming going on in basegame and older map metas in my time in this game. It's purely a question of luck what kind of people you end up on a map with.

 

Back to the thread subject: I personally enjoy the DE meta. I did get frustrated with my 10+ failed attempts before I was able to score a win, mostly due to the fact that I only had time to try it on weekend afternoons in the first few weeks after release, where people unaware of mechanics were plentiful and truly organized squads were few and hard to find, but most of my frustration actually stemmed from the fact that I honestly liked what I saw of the meta and people seemed to be more intent on trashing it than banding together and trying to learn how it works.

 

Thinking back to other releases, especially Dragon's Stand and Dragonfall, I remember similar problems, with me seemingly "lagging behind" with completion because I didn't have enough free time to frequently try the maps, and the weekend afternoons when I actually had times were always most difficult to complete new stuff because of a high number of "sightseers". Nothing new here really.

 

I know a lot of people that aren't among the "top" players, don't generally play instanced group content (or not at all), casually wander around Tyria, and at most use an lfg taxi for a meta event now and then, but by now all of them have at least one win in DE under their belt. In general the relaxed athmosphere and successful runs seem to be steadily increasing, even on the weekends. All anecdotal evidence, of course, but from my casual pov and the stories I hear from equally (or even more so) casual friends in game, DE is well on the way to be just as scuccessful as DS and similar large-scale metas.

[Izzy.2951]

It seems that the so aclaimed "minority" that likes DE and arenanet direction with the game, is not such a minority ^.^"

At the end of the day i think all this things are good for the game in the long term, but i can understand its a shock for some players after doing content in like infantile mode of Super adventure box.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Gorem.8104]

13 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Good for you if you haven't seen anything like this before, but none of what you describe is in any way, shape, or form new to GW2. I've been in plenty of failed DE metas and haven't seen any flaming, but have seen plenty of flaming going on in basegame and older map metas in my time in this game. It's purely a question of luck what kind of people you end up on a map with.

 

Back to the thread subject: I personally enjoy the DE meta. I did get frustrated with my 10+ failed attempts before I was able to score a win, mostly due to the fact that I only had time to try it on weekend afternoons in the first few weeks after release, where people unaware of mechanics were plentiful and truly organized squads were few and hard to find, but most of my frustration actually stemmed from the fact that I honestly liked what I saw of the meta and people seemed to be more intent on trashing it than banding together and trying to learn how it works.

 

Thinking back to other releases, especially Dragon's Stand and Dragonfall, I remember similar problems, with me seemingly "lagging behind" with completion because I didn't have enough free time to frequently try the maps, and the weekend afternoons when I actually had times were always most difficult to complete new stuff because of a high number of "sightseers". Nothing new here really.

 

I know a lot of people that aren't among the "top" players, don't generally play instanced group content (or not at all), casually wander around Tyria, and at most use an lfg taxi for a meta event now and then, but by now all of them have at least one win in DE under their belt. In general the relaxed athmosphere and successful runs seem to be steadily increasing, even on the weekends. All anecdotal evidence, of course, but from my casual pov and the stories I hear from equally (or even more so) casual friends in game, DE is well on the way to be just as scuccessful as DS and similar large-scale metas.

I... I wut?
People were trying their hardest as they possibly could and failing the DE meta. It wasn't something that people were slacking on. The games been out nearly 10 years, in that time, why make mistakes that have made before on purpose? 

They should know by now how to design meta's and things that prevents all this as they have done now multiple times. It should not take months these days for things to "Stabilise" when its not even a case at launch. The only way to beat DE meta is good RNG and being in a stacked squad and this is only possible more often due to the nerfs. HoT was nerfed many times over to be in its completed state and is one of the most played area's in the game. People actually enjoy nerfs when its the right nerfs. It just seems to be something Anet has forgotten. 

[Izzy.2951]

10 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I... I wut?
People were trying their hardest as they possibly could and failing the DE meta. It wasn't something that people were slacking on. The games been out nearly 10 years, in that time, why make mistakes that have made before on purpose? 

They should know by now how to design meta's and things that prevents all this as they have done now multiple times. It should not take months these days for things to "Stabilise" when its not even a case at launch. The only way to beat DE meta is good RNG and being in a stacked squad and this is only possible more often due to the nerfs. HoT was nerfed many times over to be in its completed state and is one of the most played area's in the game. People actually enjoy nerfs when its the right nerfs. It just seems to be something Anet has forgotten. 

The only thing i get clear from your post is some kind of imperious demand for Arenanet to make DE metra trivial and i dont see any motivation behind that, cos first its an epic encounter to conclude a 10 year arc, second its a way to make people play in team, socialize and learn about the game, and 3rd we already have 98% of the open world content to be trivial. 

I will say again im loving Arenanet direction, im loving to see more challenges and interesting encounters to play with people in a MMO, and i hope that people that demand to have everything casual dont ruin the game, cos its doing fantastic.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[costepj.5120]

1 minute ago, Gorem.8104 said:

People were trying their hardest as they possibly could and failing the DE meta. 

Which means absolutely nothing. I could try my very hardest to run a marathon this afternoon and I promise you I won't make it past mile 3. The solution isn't to nerf marathons down to Park Run level, but for me to improve my abilities / eat fewer cookies.

 

Back to GW2, I joined a static group doing dungeons and fractals a year or more ago. When I started I was a liability and most weeks I was on the verge of giving up so they could replace me with a more competent player. But I stuck with it, got lots of help, practiced a lot, and now I can just about hold my own on T4 fractals. I'm still the weakest member of the team but I know I've improved my game play a lot. And that has carried over into open world too. For the record, I completed the DE meta on my second attempt.

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Also, the EoD training area teaches next to nothing that would be useful in last instance.

 

That is not true to be honest. It might be subtle, but everything the EoD training heart teaches you is a basic version of what you encounter in DE later on.

 

Breakbar: What a coincidence, Soo Won has multiple breakbars throughout the fight, as do her champions. You have seen this. 

Dodging: Dodge to avoid damage. how obvious does it have to be? 

Telegraphs: The dodge teacher also has the colored telegraphs to teach you to walk out of them/avoid them. 

Shockwaves: Teacher has these as well and they are very close to Soo Won's basic headslam wave attacks without the blue effects.

 

And then you get the Mech-fight after these trainings that combines the former: A breakbar, attacks to avoid and telegraphed hits.

 

It might be basic, but it IS trying to teach you some absolute basic skills needed not just in DE but throughout the entire expansion (Every meta event boss comes with telegraphs, shockwaves and breakbars at the very least, as does several story encounters like for example the Void corrupted Saltspray in Arborstone).

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

1 minute ago, Dante.1508 said:

WvW not enough for your ways,

Is WvW hardcore content? Most of the roamers just chill flipping camps left and right.
Zerg is probably a bit different.

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

5 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

So many try hards ruining GW2 these days.. why must you promote your hard core crap in open world, are strikes and raids, pvp and WvW not enough for your ways, you now must pollute open world with your dark souls mentality as well.

 

I find it hilarious that asking 3 very basic things of a player ( listen to your commander, do CC, do at least 7k dps) equals 'hard core crap' in your eyes to the point that you feel the need to insult other players for having a different preference than you. 

 

Sorry, but you present yourself here as the prime example of what reddit calls the 'toxic casual'.

Ruining GW2? 

Please look into a mirror.