End of Dragons - End of My Fun in Guild Wars 2

[yoni.7015]

15 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

So many try hards ruining GW2 these days.. why must you promote your hard core crap in open world, are strikes and raids, pvp and WvW not enough for your ways, you now must pollute open world with your dark souls mentality as well.

There are enough low effort events for you. Why can’t you let players that want a little challenge have one meta event?

You can continue killing veterans in Queensdale if everything else in game is “hardcore” in your opinion. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by yoni.7015

[NuggetScout.3782]

3 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Cant even read more your post after the first sentence lol.

EoD has outsold last expansion and Gw2 is more active than in PoF even said by Devs. You can also look at Reddit, Twitch and other platform to see the high increse in activity. 

And they had some problems at start with making many maps so people were really spread, but it seems to be solve since weeks.

DE meta is not a Raid encounter, stop confusing people. You havent done raids if you say that.

They are releasing LWS1 to release Steam in the near future, so people have a connection, aswell as a new player experience. You have absolutly 0 knowledge about what you are talking, im amazed.

Just because they had HIGH pre oder sales that added to it, doesnt mean it did better in the end game. New players accept it, old players know Anet could have done better. But they dropped the ball.

 

Eod is garbage, the story is meh, it was forced and rushed, just to have a "climax" it literally feels like all that's left is fishing.

Edited April 25, 2022 by NuggetScout.3782

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Cant even read more your post after the first sentence lol.

EoD has outsold last expansion and Gw2 is more active than in PoF even said by Devs. You can also look at Reddit, Twitch and other platform to see the high increse in activity. 

And they had some problems at start with making many maps so people were really spread, but it seems to be solve since weeks.

DE meta is not a Raid encounter, stop confusing people. You havent done raids if you say that.

They are releasing LWS1 to release Steam in the near future, so people have a connection, aswell as a new player experience. You have absolutly 0 knowledge about what you are talking, im amazed.

I'm not surprised that the expansion sold well.  But I'll be surprised if the game retains those players in the long-term.  Like PoF, the EoD maps are mostly pretty boring with low replay value.  Unlike PoF, it doesn't add game-changing features.  Player retention will likely depend upon whether new/returning players enjoy the rest of the game.  If they don't, I really don't see EoD being the deciding factor in most player's decision to stay.

[Izzy.2951]

7 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm not surprised that the expansion sold well.  But I'll be surprised if the game retains those players in the long-term.  Like PoF, the EoD maps are mostly pretty boring with low replay value.  Unlike PoF, it doesn't add game-changing features.  Player retention will likely depend upon whether new/returning players enjoy the rest of the game.  If they don't, I really don't see EoD being the deciding factor in most player's decision to stay.

That is a problem gw2 have since launch, player retention. 1st core game needs and overhaul, also some systems needs and overhaul (like LFG).

Gw2 is kinda design so you play the story and leave. It doesnt matter if theres mounts, fishing or watever, its kinda what gw2 sells. Things like DE meta, strikes and making things more challenging not getting it so fast would likely make people get deeper knowledge in the game and spend more time. But what i have said multiple times, if they dont focus on a fun/engaging pve group content, and in wvw/pvp. The game will have very little retention, since its gonna be pass the game and leave (except some players that will complete achivement and stuff), and since base game experience is so ugly im amazed gw2 is still holding up that good.

And even if the player population lower, that it might do over time, Steam will solve that by far.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Omega.6801]

ANet should really just make a P2W mobile game where ppl can buy everything on release at this point. Why even bother playing the game, just watch a video and be happy about the blinking lights.

[Ashen.2907]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's not what Anet claims. They are the ones saying that this event is the culmination of the whole storyline, not me.

Yes, you would. Because you're part of the small minority that event is meant for. Most of the playerbase however is apparently not intended to be part of that "perfect end" at all.

You're naive if you think that this community will start improving now when in last 10 years Anet didn't manage to accomplish that already. All the approaches Anet has used now have been used before. That didn't change a thing. And no, it did not make the community play more as a team. If anything, it only increased the divisions within the community, and brought in question the one very basic OW rule - that in OW you were always supposed to be happy seeing another player around. In that event that is not true. You are happy seeing only a small, very selected group of players - all the others you'd want gone out of the map as soon as possible.

Also, the EoD training area teaches next to nothing that would be useful in last instance. Especially considering how inconsistent the completion requirements are for different tests, and how easily you can finish them by pure accident on some classes.

It doesnt matter what the marketing speak talking points spouted by devs say, the fact is that the ten year story you mention in your tv analogy is completed in the personal story instanced version that lacks the challenges, hurdles, etc of the OW event. The meta in no way gates story completion.

[Ashen.2907]

6 hours ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

Is WvW hardcore content? Most of the roamers just chill flipping camps left and right.
Zerg is probably a bit different.

Even most zerging involves getting a bunch of people together and casually rolling over smaller groups, individuals, or NPCs that get in your way. Only a very small portion of wvw zergs are all that serious, dedicated, or hardcore in their approach.

[Hesione.9412]

13 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Imagine a popular TV series. You watch it season after season, keep up with the storyline. And after years of running the major story arc, it eventually ends in a grand finale. Which due to sudden changes in accessibility most of the people watching up to that point will never get to see.

That's precisely what happened here.

As we keep saying, it will go the way of Triple Trouble and Serpent's Ire. Apparently that's fine. I am surprised Anet has not learned the lesson from these metas.

 

Additionally, these events plus Dragonfall, Dragonstorm, and Dragons End can have griefing. Serpent's Ire: keep killing the wrong champ. The others: make sure that one is DPS'd down much faster than the others.

[Lay shenfay.3405]

So this is DE's META .Very few people play it now
There are very few teams on LFG to see

it's dying.

Find the squad even 1 hour before the start.
But because of RNG. It will keep you from entering the map that is already full.

Even if you successfully enter the map,  disconnection

"oh shxx! i can't back my squad map !!! "

Praise RNG!@@:)

[Dante.1508]

14 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

There are enough low effort events for you. Why can’t you let players that want a little challenge have one meta event?

You can continue killing veterans in Queensdale if everything else in game is “hardcore” in your opinion. 

Because it effects everyone in the open world.

14 hours ago, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

 

I find it hilarious that asking 3 very basic things of a player ( listen to your commander, do CC, do at least 7k dps) equals 'hard core crap' in your eyes to the point that you feel the need to insult other players for having a different preference than you. 

 

Sorry, but you present yourself here as the prime example of what reddit calls the 'toxic casual'.

Ruining GW2? 

Please look into a mirror.

As are you. and so should you.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Dante.1508

[DanAlcedo.3281]

16 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I... I wut?
People were trying their hardest as they possibly could and failing the DE meta. It wasn't something that people were slacking on. The games been out nearly 10 years, in that time, why make mistakes that have made before on purpose? 

They should know by now how to design meta's and things that prevents all this as they have done now multiple times. It should not take months these days for things to "Stabilise" when its not even a case at launch. The only way to beat DE meta is good RNG and being in a stacked squad and this is only possible more often due to the nerfs. HoT was nerfed many times over to be in its completed state and is one of the most played area's in the game. People actually enjoy nerfs when its the right nerfs. It just seems to be something Anet has forgotten. 

Doing 3k dps isn't trying their hardest. 

 

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

How would a casual player even know how to estimate their damage for this particular meta?  If they went into the Aerodrome and used the training golem could they tune the boons to something functionally similar?  Or would it be better to run without any of the provided boons and do a manual calculation?

Or would it be better to do something else entirely?

Edited April 26, 2022 by Elden Arnaas.4870
formatting

[Gorem.8104]

26 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Doing 3k dps isn't trying their hardest. 

 

Actually, to them it is, if they don't know about gear stat combinations and builds and good rotations, they could be using all their abilities and actually doing less dps then if they just spammed one. There's builds out there that in the right gear outdps people who do try their hardest by using only using 1 key. And yet, you still see these lack of dps people following orders and swapping sides. I'm talking about the fact that mechanics should be king when it comes to a fight in open world, not dps checks. 

If you pass all mechanics 100% of the time and fail anyway, its not a well designed fight for the open world populace. 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

30 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Actually, to them it is, if they don't know about gear stat combinations and builds and good rotations, they could be using all their abilities and actually doing less dps then if they just spammed one. There's builds out there that in the right gear outdps people who do try their hardest by using only using 1 key. And yet, you still see these lack of dps people following orders and swapping sides. I'm talking about the fact that mechanics should be king when it comes to a fight in open world, not dps checks. 

If you pass all mechanics 100% of the time and fail anyway, its not a well designed fight for the open world populace. 

But they don't even do the mechanics either. 

Just look at break bars. 

And I don't consider having to run to a different location a mechanic. But even that seems hard for some people. 

Dodging a attack is also not mechanic as dodging is part of every fight. 

 

Basically, what you say it the best they can do is actually not even the bear minimum they should be capable of. 

[Gorem.8104]

I always see breakbars broken, and I always see people refresh at the table, and I always see people complain about breaking the bar too early in Dragonstand. Not sure what game you are playing. Even in complete and total random pugs breakbars usually break. 

[Zok.4956]

On 4/25/2022 at 11:44 AM, Izzy.2951 said:

Anet havent created any toxicity. The toxicity comes from people that want Gw2 to be what they want or they will start 200 forum threads.

The "200 forum threads" are proof that Anet did something wrong.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Zok.4956

[vanfrano.1325]

EoD and its final meta quite clearly hurt the game and I'm surprised they haven't done much to fix EoD's many issues, some of them being quite damaging to the game and its community.

[soul.9651]

Lol people just cant stop talking about same kitten over and over again..xd EoD rewards are trash we get it... They will fix it eventually. Plus its not like DE meta is the only content in EoD . Just go and play other stuff, get over it.. -.-

[soul.9651]

.

Edited April 26, 2022 by soul.9651

[Vaen.2605]

OP needs to take a breather and ask yourself if you can still enjoy GW2 without Dragon's End.  If so, ignore it completely and keep playing; if not, there's other great games out there.  I was in the same situation last week, life is too short to be wasting two hours in the hope that the other 49 players in a casual MMO aren't actually casual in their playstyles.

[Caitmonster.9036]

I think this just is a fatal flaw of the early game experience in GW2. As it's been said over and over and over again, the game doesn't teach you the importance of cc, the importance of boons, the importance of a rotation or dodging except for that silly ring of bombs you dodge through to get a little loot chest, and definitely not the importance of gear stats relative to a player's class or build. Anet wanted everyone, regardless of skill level, to be able to experience their storylines with minimal difficulty which I guess I can understand to a degree. But, I feel like if GW2 had ingrained these mechanics into fresh players at the start instead of waiting until the very end of the third expansion to make most of it relevant, we'd see a whole lot less complaining.

Though I hear Arenanet is looking into the new player experience, so perhaps there's hope it will change for Steam's release.

DE is a slog, I'll give it that. But we already have 2-phase metas that are far more rewarding relative to what part(s) you complete. Pretty sure you get a big wiggly chest after you finish the lane phase at Dragon's Stand. South Drizzlewood has the cache keepers. For DE, doing the prep phase to completion? Not all that much even with the rework. That feels a little bad.

[Zok.4956]

On 4/25/2022 at 12:49 PM, Izzy.2951 said:

It seems that the so aclaimed "minority" that likes DE and arenanet direction with the game, is not such a minority

Not really.There are no figures to suggest this.

We know that "challenging group content" in every game (that is not purely focussing on this type of content) is only for a small part of the playerbase. GW2 is no exception. Anet even confirmed this (when they talked about raid content over the years several times). Thats why they could not justify putting more money into developing more raids. Because the participation is too low for this.

However, there are definitely individual devs that really would love to create more challenging (raid) content. For some it maybe also has to do with pride - when reviewers and streamers talk about "hard content". And some of those devs probably want to push more players into those content (whatever it takes), so they can justify creating more challenging content. Or maybe some of these individuals have now management roles at Anet and this has become the "official" company strategy.

We do not know. Anet does not really openly communicate about the DE meta and the studios direction about "challenging group content". They do not really show us the full numbers and do not really address all the feedback and complaints from a lot of their customers. Only some luke-warm statement like "success rate increased - it's fine". The statement feels like the famous "you are holding it wrong" response from Steve J. back in the days (around seven years ago) when the iPhone had an antenna design problem.

 

On 4/25/2022 at 12:49 PM, Izzy.2951 said:

At the end of the day i think all this things are good for the game in the long term

I hope that, because I like the game. But success cannot be taken for granted. There are lots of examples of once successfull companies because they did not listen to the feedback of their customers.

We already saw the negative impact of Anets initial decisions with challenging open world and story content in HoT. Sales went down after HoT for a long time and Anet had to change course in its game development. 

EoD sales do not (yet) reflect Anets decisions in EoD/DE. Because GW2 had an increased player count (caused by Covid) and Anet was able to secure that momentum (the return-to-events last year, etc..) until the EoD release.

 

[Izzy.2951]

9 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Actually, to them it is, if they don't know about gear stat combinations and builds and good rotations, they could be using all their abilities and actually doing less dps then if they just spammed one. There's builds out there that in the right gear outdps people who do try their hardest by using only using 1 key. And yet, you still see these lack of dps people following orders and swapping sides. I'm talking about the fact that mechanics should be king when it comes to a fight in open world, not dps checks. 

If you pass all mechanics 100% of the time and fail anyway, its not a well designed fight for the open world populace. 

Like it happens in every game, isnt it? If you go into a dungeon with lvl 20 gear, or a healing gear when ur dps, ur gonna do terrible and most likely wont pass the dungeon even if they try to carry you. So you basically need to learn more about the game.

Whats the problem with that? It happens in every MMO, and it makes ppl spend more time on the game and find it fun. And time after you will find hilarious how you tried to do that content.

The only problem i see is that gw2 doesnt teach you about nearly anything, except the new training area in EoD. Nontheless its a good start.

PD: I seriously dont understand the point of im doing 3k dps per second and im demanding to pass DE meta and all, just learn a BIT about the game, only a bit (not raiding CM), and you will do it easily like in every game. Just stop complaining without sense pls.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

With Anet apparently overhauling the New Player Experience, I really hope it will add a proper tutorial instance. 

 

"That enemy is winding up for a big attack!"
Red AoE marker appears
"Be prepared to dodge it before it hits you!"
Prompt: "Press [V] button to dodge and evade attacks"

 

If dodged succesfully: Well done, now strike it!

If failed to dodge: Get up, it is about to attack again!"

 

Or...

 

"That enemy looks particularly strong, we will need to break it's defiance to have a chance!"
Prompt: "Strong enemies have a blue bar known as a DEFIANCE BAR" below their healthbar. Use crowd control skills to deplete the bar, stun them and deal bonus damage!"

"Weapon or utility skills with crowd control start glowing on the skillbar"

 

Make the monster take 0 damage as long as defiancebar is still up.

 

Does that sound kitten? Ofcourse it does.
And yet it is already a better tutorial than whatever is in the game currently.

[Borked.6824]

On 4/24/2022 at 9:59 AM, Danikat.8537 said:

"The event in End of Dragons"...you make it sound like the entire expansion is one event. If you don't enjoy it that's fine, you don't need to do it (it's not even required for the turtle mount any more), you can skip that one event and play whatever else you like, including the rest of the expansion.

Maybe that's the point.  It's 1 map devoted to 1 stupid event that people don't like, is tiresomely challenging, and gives no reward.  You could consider that 1/4 the expansion wasted.