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Dragon domain and minion


aceofbass.2163

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I don't know if this was already posted but what were soo won's domain and minions?

 

In the original storyline it was thought that soo won a.k.a. deep sea dragon was responsible for making the krait, quaggan, karka, and largos to  flee their home back in the unending ocean, even believed to kill mellagan. But then, in the EoD story line we learned that soo won was a benevolent dragon much like glint and aurene so it wasn't her that caused all that ruckus. Also, why didn't we see any of her minions? where were the twisted horrors or whatever they could have been? Pretty sure because she was awake in the story she could have had her minions help out joon or cantha in some shape or form. 

 

Lastly, regarding her domain. The dragons has always had 2 domains. Soo Won's was never explored, we just knew she had domain over water because of her affinity to it. No airdrop my thoughts to PC and aurene. I always wondered why Soo Won was able to get in touch with aurene as far as the eye of the north thru telepathy. Wasn't mordremoth the one with telepathy because his domain was mind? Even jormag can't do that and it had to use a specialized minion to communicate his/her propaganda. In that regard too, if soo won have always had this ability why didn't she get in touch with her other children(or at least she didn't mention she tried to do so, implying she never could have) to I don't know...be better I guess? Just kidding.

 

All these questions might have been answered in game but can some lore buff give an insight to all these questions please? Thank you.

Edited by aceofbass.2163
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Last rant:

 

why was soo won so small compared to all the other elder dragons!?
 

she is the water dragon and creatures found in deep waters are gigantic because their growth can't be hindered by their weight because the water can support all that.

 

with the exception of kralk who absorbed so much from the other dragons, look at zhaitan and mordy vs soo won. she's so petite and it really doesnt jive with being a creature from the deep!

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4 hours ago, aceofbass.2163 said:

I don't know if this was already posted but what were soo won's domain and minions?

Water and ???; Bobby Stein has mentioned that "it can be figured out", my theory is Life.
No minions.

4 hours ago, aceofbass.2163 said:

Also, why didn't we see any of her minions? where were the twisted horrors or whatever they could have been? Pretty sure because she was awake in the story she could have had her minions help out joon or cantha in some shape or form.

Twisted horrors were retconned to not be tied to Soo-Won, that it was just Tyrians making assumptions despite first hand accounts from quaggans.

4 hours ago, aceofbass.2163 said:

Wasn't mordremoth the one with telepathy because his domain was mind? Even jormag can't do that and it had to use a specialized minion to communicate his/her propaganda.

Jormag always had mental abilities. Every Elder Dragon has a hive mind, Mordremoth's domain of mind allowed him to transfer his consciousness - Kralkatorrik later used the same domain magic to created shared cognizance between minions.

4 hours ago, aceofbass.2163 said:

why was soo won so small compared to all the other elder dragons!?

Elder Dragons and their minions grow in size with consuming more magic, but they also shrink in size if they lose magic. Soo-Won avoided gorging on magic unlike Primordus and Kralkatorrik (the largest of the Elder Dragons), and for the past 17-18 years had been actively draining herself of magic via Joon's Yong Reactor. Similar reason for why Primordus is smaller in IBS than in Season 3, since Balthazar drained him of magic in S3; similarly with Zhaitan's size - while it slept, the Six Gods drained Zhaitan of magic, and the Pact did the same during the Orr campaign.

This is also why Aurene is so small - because she doesn't hoard magic but share it.

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10 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Water and ???; Bobby Stein has mentioned that "it can be figured out", my theory is Life.

Who is Bobby Stein? 

Mmmm life...plausible since she did bring life to the other elder dragons

 

10 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Twisted horrors were retconned to not be tied to Soo-Won, that it was just Tyrians making assumptions despite first hand accounts from quaggans.

True twisted horrors might not have been hers but she couldn't have been minionless as that would be bizarre all the other dragons have at least 1 type of minion, even aurene. 

 

If she really didn't have minions, wish anet could explain as to why she didn't. Like was it a morale thing or a limitation of her nature or whatever. 

10 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Jormag always had mental abilities. Every Elder Dragon has a hive mind, Mordremoth's domain of mind allowed him to transfer his consciousness - Kralkatorrik later used the same domain magic to created shared cognizance between minions.

Agreed elder dragons have hive mind but with their minions, not with other dragons.

1. If that was the case, aurene need not to speak or limit the conversation with bangar as voice of jormag in that magic cage.

2. The pact also shouldn't have a hard time tracking dragons since they had aurene and she should have always known their location and their motives.

 

Or are you saying they have innate telepathic link as a means of communication with other elder dragons and choose to turn on/off, not hive mind, because hive mind means they would know what the others are thinking at all times and would basically think alike as well. To which case if they had a link, point #1 shouldnt have existed. If they had hive mind , point #2 shouldnt have existed.

10 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Elder Dragons and their minions grow in size with consuming more magic, but they also shrink in size if they lose magic. Soo-Won avoided gorging on magic unlike Primordus and Kralkatorrik (the largest of the Elder Dragons), and for the past 17-18 years had been actively draining herself of magic via Joon's Yong Reactor. Similar reason for why Primordus is smaller in IBS than in Season 3, since Balthazar drained him of magic in S3; similarly with Zhaitan's size - while it slept, the Six Gods drained Zhaitan of magic, and the Pact did the same during the Orr campaign.

This is also why Aurene is so small - because she doesn't hoard magic but share it.

Makes a lot of sense actually. 

 

Thanks for bouncing ideas with me!

Edited by aceofbass.2163
Hive mind clarification
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15 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Elder Dragons and their minions grow in size with consuming more magic, but they also shrink in size if they lose magic. Soo-Won avoided gorging on magic unlike Primordus and Kralkatorrik (the largest of the Elder Dragons), and for the past 17-18 years had been actively draining herself of magic via Joon's Yong Reactor. Similar reason for why Primordus is smaller in IBS than in Season 3, since Balthazar drained him of magic in S3; similarly with Zhaitan's size - while it slept, the Six Gods drained Zhaitan of magic, and the Pact did the same during the Orr campaign.

This is also why Aurene is so small - because she doesn't hoard magic but share it.

 

I'm going to read up on the rest of this after sleeping, but I wanted to ping this off of you before I forget.

 

Could this facet we've learned about actually reconcile the GW1 depiction of Primordus with his GW2 appearances, when before we had no real idea of how?

 

In EOTN, he wasn't that big, but was also fueling the Asura's entire gate network at the time, and probably the magic around him had been tapped for their cities and other devices. So big that time, he wasn't very big. But then he awoke, and reclaimed all the magic the Asura had siphoned off (without knowing the source). as well as major sources of magic deep underground in his rampage that drove those species to the surface?

 

And as he consumed more/various magic, his form changed. As the spirits of the wild said (IIRC) "His face bears the scars of dragon and god magics."

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6 hours ago, aceofbass.2163 said:

Who is Bobby Stein? 

Mmmm life...plausible since she did bring life to the other elder dragons

Stein is one of the narrative designers who's been at ArenaNet since the days of Prophecies development. He's now the Lead Narrative Designer since last November.

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True twisted horrors might not have been hers but she couldn't have been minionless as that would be bizarre all the other dragons have at least 1 type of minion, even aurene. 

 

If she really didn't have minions, wish anet could explain as to why she didn't. Like was it a morale thing or a limitation of her nature or whatever. 

Well having dragon minions is explicitly an evil action. Aurene technically doesn't have minions (outside of gemstore skins), since minions are "corrupted" and corruption == no free will == evil action. Aurene has bonded champions, and Soo-Won does have one too (Kuunavang), but no label is applied to what these bonded champions "become".

Quote

Agreed elder dragons have hive mind but with their minions, not with other dragons.

1. If that was the case, aurene need not to speak or limit the conversation with bangar as voice of jormag in that magic cage.

2. The pact also shouldn't have a hard time tracking dragons since they had aurene and she should have always known their location and their motives.

 

Or are you saying they have innate telepathic link as a means of communication with other elder dragons and choose to turn on/off, not hive mind, because hive mind means they would know what the others are thinking at all times and would basically think alike as well. To which case if they had a link, point #1 shouldnt have existed. If they had hive mind , point #2 shouldnt have existed.

Soo-Won brought Aurene into her mindscape (and later the Commander); Aurene later did this for the Commander in the finale having learned how to from Soo-Won. It's unclear if the other Elder Dragons knew how to, or if this was an original ability of Soo-Won's (could have been born from Mordremoth's domain of mind - keep in mind that they both had gotten all magic but each other's by those points in time).

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I'm going to read up on the rest of this after sleeping, but I wanted to ping this off of you before I forget.

 

Could this facet we've learned about actually reconcile the GW1 depiction of Primordus with his GW2 appearances, when before we had no real idea of how?

That's pretty much the explanation assumed by IBS. Primordus was warped by the magic of dragons and gods - meaning both Abaddon and Balthazar - according to the Spirits of the Wild.

26 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

One could argue that the Saltspray Dragons are her minions, given that there exist corrupted versions of them, like with other minions.

At least one of them is a minion though, since Kuunavang is her champion and thus technically her minion.

They're more like corrupted by the Dragonvoid than by Soo-Won. Only Kuunavang was bonded by Soo-Won herself with water domain.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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This is an absolute spitball, but as far as Soo-Won's second facet goes...perhaps it is something along the lines of Memory? All the evidence in the lore points toward each Elder Dragon having a counterpoint in the All -- Jormag and Primordus were explicitly labelled as being opposing forces of Fire/Ice, or less explicitly Destruction/Preservation...Zhaitan and Mordremoth were also seemingly opposites, as Caledbolg was used to cleanse Zhaitan's corruption in Orr. It's not too much of a stretch to say that they could have represented Death/Creation, the cycle of things ending, then regrowing again. That would leave Soo-Won and Kralkatorrik (now Aurene) as the final pairing of opposite facets...but on the face of it there isn't really all that much of a conflict between them -- the epic struggle of Liquid vs. Solid isn't particularly interesting narratively.

 

But, the Crystal Dragons all seem to share the gift of prophecy -- seeing potential futures, knowing what will come up to a point (that point being their death or being stripped of their magic). Soo-Won on the other hand has been around literally since Tyria began...and water has power. Scrying Pools can be used to look back at what has happened before, a window into the past. If one looks at the Human Gods, Abaddon was the God of Water and Knowledge -- then when he fell from grace, he was described as the God of Secrets. What's a secret, if not the past that nobody knows? Perhaps the dichotomy between Soo-Won and Aurene was Past vs. Future...EoD was the story of the oldest Elder Dragon passing the torch to the youngest Elder Dragon, letting go of the past and heading into a future full of possibility. Food for thought.

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