Anet Fix that Condi kitten

[Catchyfx.5768]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

What is an immortal condi ranger?

If we're still complaining about Druids when cele Harbs and condi Virtuoso exist then all I have to say is, there are too many noobs in WvW.

I will ask for build, it was core. We didnt fight, I was just trying to do dps to him standing still. So yea, he would not kill me with condies, cuz I would heal and stuff. But he was passively invincible. Skills did him 1k or 2k at max, but that was it. I would asume a lot of toughness,
however if we really fought, he did lower dmg, but eventualy won, cuz he was still 100% hp and I fall to condies over time, run out of cleanses. So yea, it is cheese build and he is most likely killing only classes with bad condi management on it. 
I would like some Berserker+Toughness on top of it 😄 If I take Valk I dont do dmg at all, but that is most likely rev problem, then amulet problem.

[Dawdler.8521]

50 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

For bunkers its not a requirement. Cele weaver, cele renegade, cele fb, trailblazer core necro, have neither (at most you got like 1 port). But the rest have one or both, yeah. Usually stealth, only cele scrapper having "insane mobility" (maybe also cele specter).

Lol you have no idea what I even commented on do you.

He said he only see power classes only if they have stealth, or insane mobility.

Which I find an absolutely ridiculous statement since condi builds have the same stealth and the same mobility as power builds, hence the idea that 18 of 20 encounters he meet *does not have stealth or mobility* I call complete bunk on. Thats the contradiction. Many roamers have stealth regardless of build (the popular trapper DH says hello, lets just ignore thieves and mesmers) and they ALL have mobility. Thats kind of what makes a decent roamer build.

kitten, even trailblazer necros have enough mobility to throw you a curveball since they sometimes run both slime and worm.

Probably shouldnt mention that 4 out of 15 meta roaming builds on metabattle are trailblazer, the others are zerk/mara/cele.

[Dawdler.8521]

Edit: forum fail

Edited April 26, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Ashen.2907]

20 hours ago, solemn.9608 said:

This reply turned into a small rant and isn't necessarily all directed at you personally

Vast majority of Power builds can't build extremely defensively and still do gank-level damage. There are many, many ways to heal - traits, boons, utilities/synergies... There are, on most classes/meta builds, not even close to enough cleanses to properly deal with problematic condi builds (condi mirage/virtuoso/mesmer in general, burn weaver, condi thief, core Necro ...). Usually the response we hear to this point is "JUST DODGE KEKW" or "git gud" - ok, play a class/build with tops 10~ individual cleanses via weapon/util/traits (not including cleanse sigil) per minute and fight a condi Mesmer, see if you last more than 25 seconds lmao. And before someone says "just slot more cleanses" you can't. There aren't enough. Lmao. But someone will of course chime in with

"OH but MY build has X amount of cleanses and I don't mind fighting condi"

yes, my antitoxin cleanse sigil "everything I do is a cleanse" weaver build is great for fighting condi as well. Should I necessarily have to take antitoxin, cleanse sigil, a second sigil that cleanses through synergy (or generosity), as well as fully traiting for as many cleanses possible in the game just to fight a condi Mesmer on even footing? 😹

MaaaYBE it's slightly unbalanced compared to power, where you can stat toughness against it, protection boon is more common, healing alone is more efficient than having to cleanse *and* heal at the same time, and power is usually ganky/squishy or wet noodle/tanky. Whereas condi is either ganky/tanky or ganky/tanky, no typo

 

How many skills does one have to mitigate power damage that does not also mitigate condi damage?

Dodge: impacts both.

Clear: affects condi but not power.

Protection: Technically affects both types of builds but certainly power moreso by a large margin.

Stealth: affects both.

Block: affects both.

If a hit from a combo from a power build that does enough damage to kill me then I am dead. A similar combo from a condi build gives me a few seconds to react.

The advantage a condi build has is the ability to continue to whittle away at a foes health while minimizing engagement. 

 

[Hotride.2187]

2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

If a hit from a combo from a power build that does enough damage to kill me then I am dead. A similar combo from a condi build gives me a few seconds to react.

The problem in wvw is that most condi builds are tanky and so survive your dodges, blocks, evades, stealths, cleanses and eventually kill you (unless you run). So yes, you can mitigate but eventually you run out of CDs and you die (without cleanses very fast).

That is exactly what condi aims to do, in wvw its just too effective. There are only a few power builds that can sometimes win the race and their dmg vs condi bunkers doesnt even remotely compare to what they do in power vs power matchups.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[solemn.9608]

In this thread:

Power chads and "I died to a condi build once so I swapped to antitoxin cleansing sigil generosity rune -66% incoming condi duration build and then won; it's balanced because I couldn't even begin to fight it without swapping" kevins

Please don't sad/confused react this post it will hurt my delicate feelings

[Hotride.2187]

56 minutes ago, solemn.9608 said:

"it's balanced because I couldn't even begin to fight it without swapping'

I'm waiting for the comments from the cele threads that go "wvw is not balanced for small scale, go play spvp". That'd be another category. Though maybe those players dont know their builds kill with condis.

[Burial.1958]

Yeah in Roaming Condis are getting really kittenous. Burning as example does to much dmg.  It is bad balance when you as tank can hit so hard like a glasscanon. On Power you go either full dmg or Tank. As Condi you can have both. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Grebcol.5984

[Morena.9312]

Yep, it is a mess and need to be looked at. Some Sets are to strong.

[Abyssisis.3971]

Is OP from baguuma by any chance? I get whispered by those fellas telling me I’m a loser playing on a condi ranger even tho I’m on stance share celebeast.. lol

[Odin.6487]

the meta is shifting to condi because of the power nerf. 

run more cleanse to counter it. 

once people start running more cleansing they will shift back to power. 

its a never ending cycle. 

[solemn.9608]

19 hours ago, Odin.6487 said:

the meta is shifting to condi because of the power nerf. 

run more cleanse to counter it. 

once people start running more cleansing they will shift back to power. 

its a never ending cycle. 

I am sorry to be snide but anyone who unironically says "just dodge" or "just slot more cleanse" with regard to either power OR condi balance concerns should just stay out of the discussions.

 

I realize you're trying to be helpful, and you're not wrong, the meta does shift and this is how you can "adjust", but do you think unbalance does not exist? Everything is totally balanced and we should all just git gud? Bahahah next up, let's buff shadow arts and ranger longbow 2, and if anyone complains, tell them "just dodge!"

Just kill it in one hit and have 3000000 health. Ez gg right

 

[Bale.3851]

56 minutes ago, solemn.9608 said:

I am sorry to be snide but anyone who unironically says "just dodge" or "just slot more cleanse" with regard to either power OR condi balance concerns should just stay out of the discussions.

 

I realize you're trying to be helpful, and you're not wrong, the meta does shift and this is how you can "adjust", but do you think unbalance does not exist? Everything is totally balanced and we should all just git gud? Bahahah next up, let's buff shadow arts and ranger longbow 2, and if anyone complains, tell them "just dodge!"

Just kill it in one hit and have 3000000 health. Ez gg right

 

This is a MMO. There will always be unbalance because the whole setting is rock paper scissors. But to demand a full out nerf to one type of damage without further execution on what condi you want specifically nerfed and how is just lazy. Also while most people here seem to like 1v1 and roaming like myself think of the 90% (hyperbole) of wvw players who stick to a comander. Power play is meta in lager fights and condi is not. Its that easy. So demanding a nerf to condi damage should come with a nerf to group cleanse effects. This way you could (cloud cause i dont really know if this will acutally fix your problem with condi) get a more balanced roaming set up and power creep meta in boonblobs changes to be accesable for both types of damage (condi and power).

[Odin.6487]

1 hour ago, solemn.9608 said:

I am sorry to be snide but anyone who unironically says "just dodge" or "just slot more cleanse" with regard to either power OR condi balance concerns should just stay out of the discussions.

 

I realize you're trying to be helpful, and you're not wrong, the meta does shift and this is how you can "adjust", but do you think unbalance does not exist? Everything is totally balanced and we should all just git gud? Bahahah next up, let's buff shadow arts and ranger longbow 2, and if anyone complains, tell them "just dodge!"

Just kill it in one hit and have 3000000 health. Ez gg right

 

Im only coming from a place of how to deal with the current state of things. I agree with most people that as it currently stands, conditions are over tuned. Most of the condi builds arent even full condition but celestial mixed with vipers or some other stupid stuff that i think shouldnt belong in wvw. 

 

The crux of the problem is condition damage needs a full scale rework. Gear stats need a major rework as well as most of the current meta builds have ungodly sustain, mixed damage, and have huge health pools while pumping out decent damage. There currently isnt a stat in the game that mitigates condition damage the same way toughness mitigates power damage as well so why even run a power build. 

 

I could go on and on how about how anets philosophy of how all classes and specs should do condi or power is inherently flawed and over the long haul makes people gravitate towards more survivability ( which is where we are at now), but it doesnt do anything. 

 

Anet isnt going to listen to anything important that any of us might have to add. They have 1000 other problems like getting alliances to work, adding rewards so people actually play, fixing bugs, etc etc. Reworking how classes do damage and how gear affects said damage isnt even on their radar. So, yeah, it does suck to say " well just add more cleanse", but its the only thing you can do unless you want to move to the dark side and join the club. 

[Hotride.2187]

38 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

Also while most people here seem to like 1v1 and roaming like myself think of the 90% (hyperbole) of wvw players who stick to a comander. Power play is meta in lager fights and condi is not. Its that easy.

You got a heal scrapper and a support fb in every party, thats like 2/5 supports in your boonball. This makes 0 sense in the scope of roaming. Not even spvp or pve are balanced around having 2 supports per 5 players... Of course you are "immune" to condis with so much cleanse and resistance output...

Edited April 28, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Morena.9312]

1 hour ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

This is a MMO. There will always be unbalance because the whole setting is rock paper scissors. But to demand a full out nerf to one type of damage without further execution on what condi you want specifically nerfed and how is just lazy. Also while most people here seem to like 1v1 and roaming like myself think of the 90% (hyperbole) of wvw players who stick to a comander. Power play is meta in lager fights and condi is not. Its that easy. So demanding a nerf to condi damage should come with a nerf to group cleanse effects. This way you could (cloud cause i dont really know if this will acutally fix your problem with condi) get a more balanced roaming set up and power creep meta in boonblobs changes to be accesable for both types of damage (condi and power).

 The thing is that in the past mostly only power got balance patches. Condi is untouched since years. After the FEB patch Power got a big hit and now condi is complete cheese in Roaming and it starts to become really unfun. Condi should be Dmg over time but you can literally burst them like a Glasscanon.

[Bale.3851]

13 hours ago, Carmela.8756 said:

 The thing is that in the past mostly only power got balance patches. Condi is untouched since years. After the FEB patch Power got a big hit and now condi is complete cheese in Roaming and it starts to become really unfun. Condi should be Dmg over time but you can literally burst them like a Glasscanon.

 

The problem is if condis are easily cleansed and do no dmg there is no reason to play condi at all. So when you nerf condi dmg scaling the persistancy of condis should be buffed. Maybe change a condition to be something like unstable affliction in wow. So basically a condition or skill that does medicore dmg but if u dispell it does huge amounts. Just throwing out ideas.

 

14 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

You got a heal scrapper and a support fb in every party, thats like 2/5 supports in your boonball. This makes 0 sense in the scope of roaming. Not even spvp or pve are balanced around having 2 supports per 5 players... Of course you are "immune" to condis with so much cleanse and resistance output...

 

Yes that is what i said. Thank you for clarification. My argument was that if you nerf condi dmg for roaming / 1v1 in wvw make it viable in some way for lager fights. Like said above with a dispell protection (resist cleanse) or does damage on dispell effect. This way better play would be prolonged because you have to acutally watch out for this one debuff you shouldnt dispell.

[Morena.9312]

38 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

The problem is if condis are easily cleansed and do no dmg there is no reason to play condi at all. So when you nerf condi dmg scaling the persistancy of condis should be buffed. Maybe change a condition to be something like unstable affliction in wow. So basically a condition or skill that does medicore dmg but if u dispell it does huge amounts. Just throwing out ideas.

 

 

Yes that is what i said. Thank you for clarification. My argument was that if you nerf condi dmg for roaming / 1v1 in wvw make it viable in some way for lager fights. Like said above with a dispell protection (resist cleanse) or does damage on dispell effect. This way better play would be prolonged because you have to acutally watch out for this one debuff you shouldnt dispell.

 The problem i see about condi is also it is pretty easy to play. Some are even insta applied be simply press 1 button. Without any combo, tactic needed...... niente. Second condi has also a big advantage when the game laggs. Because they tick anyway.

 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

14 hours ago, Carmela.8756 said:

 The thing is that in the past mostly only power got balance patches. Condi is untouched since years. After the FEB patch Power got a big hit and now condi is complete cheese in Roaming and it starts to become really unfun. Condi should be Dmg over time but you can literally burst them like a Glasscanon.

Are you talking about the same feb 2020 patch that cut condi dps by ~30-50% across the board by reducing stacks/increasing duration and far more in specific instances (engineer with firearms and pistols saw a ~70% cut in condi dps)?

Just wondering.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Mikhael.2391]

On 4/25/2022 at 7:45 PM, Leolas.6273 said:

It starts to becoming a kittening bad experience. Everyhwere unkillable Condi Tanks or immortal Condi Rangers or thiefs with their spamming condi etc. Celestial infested or ministrel Immortals . It really starts to become boring as hell.

 

They do not care, they will never care. Anet does not make money out of wvw so we can all just suck our thumbs.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Gotta agree, condi is out of hand. To many ways to apply it, and it starts coming out of no where half the time due to traits and teammates getting hit by something that effects you way too negatively. 

[Charybdis.3695]

Might help if CCs had at least some kind of damage, maybe a low coefficient? I'd be happy

[Bale.3851]

19 hours ago, Carmela.8756 said:

 The problem i see about condi is also it is pretty easy to play. Some are even insta applied be simply press 1 button. Without any combo, tactic needed...... niente. Second condi has also a big advantage when the game laggs. Because they tick anyway.

You mean like uhhh power damage / weapon skills but over time? LuL

Everything is easy in gw2. Its not rocket science. Press a button, damage. You won. Some people just press the buttons faster. Ever played willbender these days? Its nuts and its power. Cele gear just carries most condi speccs in WvW.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Bale.3851

[Mik.3401]

On 4/25/2022 at 9:30 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

Yet there's also power mesmer builds that can one shot combo you from stealth, you don't even last 2sec, the new f1 bladesong has the potential to hit for 13k+, in fact there's a lot of classes that have the potential to one shot combo you. Somehow that's ok tho right?

 

And please don't tell me the BS about having to use zerk gear, there's so much defense/stealth/mobility built into classes now it doesn't matter, not to mention everyone runs around with support friends, soon dps specs will probably get their own might and fury generation(it's the anet dream!), which means they can run more tanky to offset.

...

..

.

I support nerfing condi thieves and condi immob rangers tho!

🤭

One shots from stealth are so 2012, most people dont do it anymore or if they do , it doesnt matter because most roaming builds are tanky as hell

Edited April 30, 2022 by Mik.3401

[Burial.1958]

On 4/30/2022 at 11:37 AM, Mik.3401 said:

One shots from stealth are so 2012, most people dont do it anymore or if they do , it doesnt matter because most roaming builds are tanky as hell

Yes, the game currently has a tanky problem now. My group has previously fought another for almost 10 minutes and no one has ever been in downstate. Of course, you can argue that the game was played well. But this massive passive tankiness through boons and other passive abilities makes the game really tedious at the moment. In small roaming style, it feels like every second player plays a Condi build or Cele.

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Grebcol.5984