Vindicator healing skill heals too little on self

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, Catchyfx.5768 said:

I dont thnik alliances heals have this good scaling. Gotta check that. But For Berserker/Marauder its not that good, both combined are worst then Bladesworn heal.

EDIT: full minstrel and rune of Flock can make this big heal. So if you are dedicated healer your life is good. If you are DPS, its little bit different.

They have, stats that have power and healing power, theres a DPS stats in PVP with good healing stats, but have no armor in return.

But sounds a bit weak in terms of survival due the DPS that some classes do in  spvp, it m8 save one or another down situation but not that OP, all that vindicator is good is due tree song  and the barrier + heal  on  leap/dodge.

Regen is a "bad healing"its ment to be like a band aid heal, still Herald regen is actually slightly higher than Vindicator, i would say both compete in support (conflict since performance is very similiar in heal/regen values).

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Aeolus.3615]

13 hours ago, youle.5824 said:

Seems some people didn't understand why I would say Vindi heals are broken so let me give some examples. On a support build in pvp you can get up to 9-10 k aoe healing with the blue alliance healing skill only, on a 10 sec cd. That's using flock rune and the Regen trait but still pretty much highest heal to cd ratio ever implemented in pvp. On offensive builds, you still have the super low cd of 10sec on both vindi heals and if using back to back it's a self.healing of 9k on 10 sec cd. Yeah it can be interupted ofc but even with long cast time this is still op by any healing standard. 

 

Flocks rune triggers on skill usage or on each heal ?

Flock heal isnt much...arround 1.2k extra and should be on heal skill usage,  thats just slightly bit more than Herald semipassive permanent regen...

Edited May 10, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Catchyfx.5768]

1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

Flocks rune triggers on skill usage or on each heal ?

Flock heal isnt much...arround 1.2k extra and should be on heal skill usage,  thats just slightly bit more than Herald semipassive permanent regen...

there is 10sec icd, but if you sit in blue legend you proc it everytime. Raw healing is good, i can see it work in wvw. Red heal should heal on hitting enemy. it would be good heal.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The point is they don't heal as much as other heals but have a low CD. It's fine tbh.

[Aeolus.3615]

3 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

The point is they don't heal as much as other heals but have a low CD. It's fine tbh.

well FB heals werent anything special besides stacking 2 per party yet Anet killed their heal mantra...(altough i always saw FB more utility/support tool than a centric healer).

Vindicator m8 heals as much a herald but with diferent timings, hearald has a 5k-6k aoe  heal and condi cleanse on shield(15secCD), perma  over 1k regen and other boons and other passive heals also over1k, while vindicator has a heal and barrier on dodge/leap thing, while providing decent regen values while casting utils and a strong condi cleanse , the reason where it shines is  defacto the low CD and  with "zero energy cost utilits".

Altough i believe Anet will increase the cost of the Vindicator skills on its CD or energy cause  theres no e-management involved in Aliance Vindicator utils, and that needs to exist.

Increasing CD of utils imo is out of question cause that's what the class is nice at, but the cost needs to be increase.... theres ZERO e-management on it.

Theres 2 things that vindicator needs:

1) Its a free energy skill, no need of e-management on really short cooldown, in a sense of balance if energy cost of skills are this cheap and low CD, at least for my experience with e-management(i m8 be wrong here).

2) DPS.... needs to be very squishy  to get more closer to other classes  DPS while other are way more tanky wich same dps lvl's... GS skills are not a  thread... I havent seen a power vindicator on wvw... 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Shao.7236]

On 5/10/2022 at 5:37 AM, Catchyfx.5768 said:

I dont thnik alliances heals have this good scaling. Gotta check that. But For Berserker/Marauder its not that good, both combined are worst then Bladesworn heal.

EDIT: full minstrel and rune of Flock can make this big heal. So if you are dedicated healer your life is good. If you are DPS, its little bit different.

If players are running Shiro with Alliance they're asking to die easily anyway. They should not balance around the fact that because they're "DPS" they should have just as much sustain as a sidenoder. Players should have Jalis if they don't want to struggle so much such as life always been for Revenant high damage is high skill.

 

Most forget that Nomad's Advance doesn't require you to have a target unlike Phase Traversal and can be used over 4 times before PT is available again, just as much mobility for hardly anymore button presses, the damage is also greater along with Might.

 

Could argue about unblockables yet every burst skills people use require two hits which makes it technically just a one hit opportunity and quickness can be accessed at the same cost of energy before Nomad's Advance is used.

 

Using both Heals with quickness is also easily achievable so within reason there is a great lack of innovation from players thus the lazy requests, that's not mentioning that those heals stray from the uniform 30 seconds and be more like 13 seconds before able to heal again if do correctly, both combined are more than Soothing Stone so they're not lacking in value.

 

Btw Selfish Spirit is misunderstood, Healing Per Hit goes two ways, either as bonus healing or saying that per hit you heal for that much. They could have used pulse instead but that doesn't derive much the idea that you'll be attacking at the same time. There's no way that they would have made it heal for that much next to someone, the Might and Vul is already good with it.

 

Edit: There's good Shiro builds out there but most are running Devastation assuming it's their best option, Retribution can yield great sustain while keeping damage similar, it's not like GS counts for the dual wield bonus anyway.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAEZlxQmMP6k1RpMOClRSqMCqkltUWsF-zZIPkGVAZKFCYEYwB

This is mine and it works quite well, pretty much up to standard of the "stereotype" for Shiro, whether you'd be Core, Herald or Renegade, just that this is Vindicator instead

Edited May 11, 2022 by Shao.7236

[Lighter.5631]

lol funny how you all confuse at shao when he's 100% a way better rev only player then most of you if not all.

and 12 confuses with not a single like or thank! HAHAHA

had to post because it is so hilarious.

edit: was checking the leaderboard, and saw youle is top21 and he got 5 confuses for disagreeing, make the post even funnier. xD

Edited May 23, 2022 by Lighter.5631

[Aeolus.3615]

On 5/22/2022 at 2:35 PM, Lighter.5631 said:

lol funny how you all confuse at shao when he's 100% a way better rev only player then most of you if not all.

and 12 confuses with not a single like or thank! HAHAHA

had to post because it is so hilarious.

edit: was checking the leaderboard, and saw youle is top21 and he got 5 confuses for disagreeing, make the post even funnier. xD

Lies ic a like long before this post.

 

[Lighter.5631]

23 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Lies ic a like long before this post.

 

lol where you see that, all i see is 13 confuses now LOLOL.

like these people need to rethink their life choice for real.

i feel bad for these actual good rev players who's actually trying to help by making valid logical points xD

and get a trillion confuses!! HAHAHA

and i quote "You have no clue how power DPS vindicator is played. " to actual good pvp rev mains!

HAHA this sub is a treasure for laughter!

Edited May 23, 2022 by Lighter.5631

[Aeolus.3615]

36 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

lol where you see that, all i see is 13 confuses now LOLOL.

like these people need to rethink their life choice for real.

i feel bad for these actual good rev players who's actually trying to help by making valid logical points xD

and get a trillion confuses!! HAHAHA

IDK, i think its the class design itself that kinda confuses players (Arch scales with power and Victor scales better with boon and heal stats due its utilities quoficients and players need to choose between be mediocre at both or excell in one or another), most players feel extremely lost if theres isnt some super meta or role to fit, but  Vindicator has 3 healing skills idk what they want more :|, i would say that vindicator/jalis would be better for most, 2 diferent heals on alliance legend on shorterCD  plus a big one one the 2nd legend.    

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Lanz.7312]

You get 2 heals from one legend, both with short cooldowns. If you're fighting aggressively with the archemorus abilities, it's doing a good amount of damage as well. You should be using it as soon as you have taken some damage, not holding onto it until you need it. 

[ens.9854]

Everybody knows new heals are bad. Nobody wants to spend 4 seconds every 10 seconds channeling both.

 

I think the idea is that the rest of vindi kit is strong enough to justify the crap heals they have. Personally I think both heals should share the same CD and be a bit stronger.

[Telgum.6071]

On 5/27/2022 at 9:56 PM, ens.9854 said:

Everybody knows new heals are bad

They are not. If you don't like certain skills fine, but the double healing is far from bad.

[Obtena.7952]

Seems to me the concept of the alliance is simply about selfish offense balanced with selfless defense. I'm going to get slammed for this but ...

Vindicator is well balanced around defense vs. offense AND self vs. group. There is lots of versatility available to play this spec however you want and I think for that reason, it's always going to be hard to justify improving it with 'more heals' or 'more DPS'. If you don't want that versatility, it's not really the idea spec to choose.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[ens.9854]

23 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

They are not. If you don't like certain skills fine, but the double healing is far from bad.

Well if it's not bad to have two, why not have them share CD and improve the utility or healing of each? This would be a nerf by your argument.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 5/29/2022 at 10:24 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Seems to me the concept of the alliance is simply about selfish offense balanced with selfless defense. I'm going to get slammed for this but ...

Vindicator is well balanced around defense vs. offense AND self vs. group. There is lots of versatility available to play this spec however you want and I think for that reason, it's always going to be hard to justify improving it with 'more heals' or 'more DPS'. If you don't want that versatility, it's not really the idea spec to choose.

Basicly that versatility comes at a cost, even when a player is tuning it for DPS its stuck to a half of  a legend that wont use its current stats, to gain max in the spec a player would have to choose stats that boots the 2 half legends, its possible to do that but most players wont be able to play with such setup.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Obtena.7952]

9 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Basicly that versatility comes at a cost, even when a player is tuning it for DPS its stuck to a half of  a legend that wont use its current stats, to gain max in the spec a player would have to choose stats that boots the 2 half legends, its possible to do that but most players wont be able to play with such setup.

That's all true. So I think what is important here that I'm trying to express is that people can't ignore the "Mr. Jekyll" side to complain Dr. Hyde side is deficient or has some problems. If people want to assess Vindicator for performance, they MUST consider its purpose is to play BOTH aspects of Alliance. 

[Shao.7236]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's all true. So I think what is important here that I'm trying to express is that people can't ignore the "Mr. Jekyll" side to complain Dr. Hyde side is deficient or has some problems. If people want to assess Vindicator for performance, they MUST consider its purpose is to play BOTH aspects of Alliance. 

And it honestly pays off to adjust the play style depending on the stance. You can still be selfish with Victor however if you maximize the effects of the skills even if not support, the help that it provides is really nutty.

 

From team stunbreak to group cleansing or burst healing with Resistance to add on top really makes it so you can do game changing sustain or allow for team pushes, even more so with boon extension.

Vindicator IMO fits into Revenant vision that Anet has even more, always praised to be a jack of all trade, clearly they didn't want that overshadow core hence why the evade comes in the design but they did give Alliance very strong skills to compensate along with Greatsword block 

Greatsword pretty much feels like a love letter to the old off-hand sword ever since the block/counter attack with pull have been taken out.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Shao.7236