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Who's betting on major PvE Mech nerf incoming in the first round of 'adjustments' this summer?


Styopa.2538

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I know I am.

 

Look, I love my engineer.  She's been my main since the first week of the game (I had a sad little flirtation with Thief until I realized in core Tyria that playing a glass cannon based on dodging when it seemed every important fight was on some dumb scaffolding(?) was stupid; sue me).

 

But...I *hate* playing FotM classes, which is very much the Mech right now.  It's just so kitten overpowered. 

Pet class (so already one step into easy mode), gobs of buffs regularly, a mace that hits like a flippin' truck, nearly impossible to die.  I mean, if I wanted to play City of Heroes I would.  What I hate the most is showing up at some meta and seeing a battalion of identical green mechs wandering all over.  Sigh.

 

Even though it's less game-optimal, I tend to play holo instead most of the time. (Or if I'm really feeling like a masochist since March, a scrapper, formerly my favorite spec.)

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I don't really get the point of this thread, Mechanist is not that overpowered, if you consider class balance only from its solo open world PVE you can't see the whole picture.

If it wasn't for Alacrity there would be almost no point in using this spec, only theme for having the Bot by your side.

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In casual PvE, yeah, it is a bit OP. Then again, so have other class/specs been and continue to be. I believe the difference with Mechanist is that even complete neophytes can jump into the profession, and start wrecking mob faces regardless of skill level. That, coupled with being an AI reliant spec, simply pisses off a solid chunk of the player base.

 

So yeah, some sort of nerf is extremely probable as threads of this type (or those more blatant in their criticism) will regularly appear until such nerf(s) take place.

 

What I, uh, "like" about this opening statement is the conclusion: the sacrifice (lol) of playing Holo, or in self-induced moments of torture, Scrapper. A true martyr :classic_rolleyes:

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Another dumb nerf mech thread without realizing the level of skill required to play it in high end content. Open World OP? So is minion master, mirage, ranger and a host of other builds. Anything can be OP in open world if built for it. You seem to assume mechanist is OP simply by existing which it is not.

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Scrapper self buffs more easily than DPS mechanist whether you are talking about might or quickness ; power mechanist isn't as strong an archetype and is solely ran for alacrity builds. Alacrity isn't that helpful if your damage skills don't have high cooldowns: the limit is how many skills you can fire off. Half the time the mech likes to run off so mechanist gameplay involves heavy use of "return to me" micromanagement.
If your issue is with alac mechanist boon output or the mech's DPS output on DPS builds with shift signet then I am sure Arenanet has it in mind to be adjusted. When boons aren't copied the mech itself outputs 2.5K on benchmark (5.8K buffed in power alac, 2.6K on condi alac , 5.4K on condi DPS).
If you break it down boons-wise it comes down to the following:

  • Power boon = 25 might 100% alacrity 80% fury/vigor , 30% stability & protection  --- 27K pDPS where 5.8K is from mech (power alac ren ~26K , power alac willbender ~27-33K depending on aegis uptime)
  • Condi boon = 25 might 100% alacrity, 80% Fury, 80% Vigor, 30% Protection and Stability once every 24 seconds  --- requires 4 kits to execute properly which makes it highly player ability dependent ~28K cDPS where 2.6K is from mech (condi alac specter ~30K , condi alac mirage ~31K+confusion)
  • Heal mech = 25 might 100% alacrity 100% fury , protection , 100% regen, 100% vigor , stability/ one use of aegis


Realistically the only real outlier right now is the aegis on Crisis Zone unless you go heal mechanist: mace's base barrier output is quite low and so is barrier engine (434 every 3 seconds is on par with Soothing Mist on elementalist or scourge's barriers off cooldown at best). Alacrity providers other than alac ren put out fury whether it is alac specter , alac willbender , or alac mirage ; with druid getting alacrity on spirits it will be on par. Unless the aegis on Crisis Zone mitigates a high damage potentially lethal attack it is no different than having 2 stacks of stability.

The only time heal mech might be overperforming is when you don't need to heal and are attacking on mace along with the mech. A healbrand is going to do less DPS unless they're a hybrid of some sort (celestial/seraph).

P.S. A 40K-50K health mech is no different than having 2 pets with 40K health each in PVE ( for example Smokescale/Jacaranda/Rock Gazelle). If you lose your mech however, it is far more penalizing even if you use overclock signet.

Edited by Infusion.7149
Add note on mech "tanking"
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I'm hoping for a nerf too, at least for the HealMech build. It's just the old Firebrand dilemma².

HealMech being able to provide pretty much everything for a subgroup besides quickness (heal over time- check. burst heal- check. condi cleanse- check. 100% Alacrity, Fury, Protection, Regeneration, Stability, Swiftness, Vigor- check check check. 25 might- check. Now let's add some barriers on top- check) just doesn't seem right to me.

And on top those mechs add some unneeded visual noise (won't argue about them being super ugly imo, that's a matter of personal taste I guess).

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On 4/27/2022 at 3:14 PM, Nash.2681 said:

I'm hoping for a nerf too, at least for the HealMech build. It's just the old Firebrand dilemma².

HealMech being able to provide pretty much everything for a subgroup besides quickness (heal over time- check. burst heal- check. condi cleanse- check. 100% Alacrity, Fury, Protection, Regeneration, Stability, Swiftness, Vigor- check check check. 25 might- check. Now let's add some barriers on top- check) just doesn't seem right to me.

And on top those mechs add some unneeded visual noise (won't argue about them being super ugly imo, that's a matter of personal taste I guess).

"Old" firebrand dilemma?

HFB can still pretty much do all those things you listed. Boon-wise they have the exact same coverage, just A->Q. Yes, mechanist has barrier on top, but FB has a lot more aegis and stability, better projectile denial, more CC (Sanctuary).

Take a look at class distribution (second-to-last column). In raids and strikes, mech and fb have equal presense. Then you look at fractals, and FB has a massive 31.8% to mech's 6.2%.

Plus, the summer patch introduces a major competitor for mech with alacrity druid, who again has the same boon spread as mech, but also has Search and Rescue, Spotter (pressumably) and Entangle. There's no such competitor for FB, all other quickness providers are dps hybrids.

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On 4/28/2022 at 5:47 PM, RabbitUp.8294 said:

"Old" firebrand dilemma?

HFB can still pretty much do all those things you listed. Boon-wise they have the exact same coverage, just A->Q. Yes, mechanist has barrier on top, but FB has a lot more aegis and stability, better projectile denial, more CC (Sanctuary).

Take a look at class distribution (second-to-last column). In raids and strikes, mech and fb have equal presense. Then you look at fractals, and FB has a massive 31.8% to mech's 6.2%.

Plus, the summer patch introduces a major competitor for mech with alacrity druid, who again has the same boon spread as mech, but also has Search and Rescue, Spotter (pressumably) and Entangle. There's no such competitor for FB, all other quickness providers are dps hybrids.

Yes, "old" in the sense of "it's present for a long time already". Everything you wrote pretty much backs up what I said, so thx I guess.

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On 4/29/2022 at 1:47 AM, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Take a look at class distribution (second-to-last column). In raids and strikes, mech and fb have equal presense. Then you look at fractals, and FB has a massive 31.8% to mech's 6.2%.

Fractals are going to have a lag time since people who don't happen to have agony resistant equipment for a new build are going to keep using the builds that they do have geared until they have the resources together to gear a new build. You can switch to a new profession in raids or strikes with exotic gear in a pinch - it won't be as efficient, but you can do it. For high-tier fractals, you need ascended equipment with fractal resistance... and the most efficient way to get it is through doing high-tier fractals. And this goes double for people who might have only one or two sets of legendary armour and it isn't medium, making it a lot easier for guardian players in this situation to switch to renegade for alacrity, and for scourge players to switch to alacmirage or catalyst.

 

If renegades are still overrepresented in fractals compared to other alacrity providers, it's probably exactly this. It'll likely be more than a couple of months before what gets played in fractals catches up to what would be optimal if you had perfect gear for every build, especially if people have been taking a break from fractals to do the new stuff. Certainly, I don't see any obvious reason why mechanist would be less effective in fractals than in other high-end content, but I can see plenty of reasons why it might be less practical for people to make that switch.

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17 hours ago, Nash.2681 said:

Everything you wrote pretty much backs up what I said, so thx I guess.

Then you need to reread my post.

16 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Fractals are going to have a lag time since people who don't happen to have agony resistant equipment for a new build are going to keep using the builds that they do have geared until they have the resources together to gear a new build. You can switch to a new profession in raids or strikes with exotic gear in a pinch - it won't be as efficient, but you can do it. For high-tier fractals, you need ascended equipment with fractal resistance... and the most efficient way to get it is through doing high-tier fractals. And this goes double for people who might have only one or two sets of legendary armour and it isn't medium, making it a lot easier for guardian players in this situation to switch to renegade for alacrity, and for scourge players to switch to alacmirage or catalyst.

 

If renegades are still overrepresented in fractals compared to other alacrity providers, it's probably exactly this. It'll likely be more than a couple of months before what gets played in fractals catches up to what would be optimal if you had perfect gear for every build, especially if people have been taking a break from fractals to do the new stuff. Certainly, I don't see any obvious reason why mechanist would be less effective in fractals than in other high-end content, but I can see plenty of reasons why it might be less practical for people to make that switch.

Some lag is expected, but months is stretching it. The people who grind fractals have plenty of ascended boxes and materials to get ascended armour and infusions fast. And hmech uses harrier with monk runes, so anyone who played druid has that armour already.

Plus, this is not the first meta swift, there wasn't a huge lag when fb and ren overtook chrono.

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1 minute ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Then you need to reread my post.

Some lag is expected, but months is stretching it. The people who grind fractals have plenty of ascended boxes and materials to get ascended armour and infusions fast. And hmech uses harrier with monk runes, so anyone who played druid has that armour already.

Plus, this is not the first meta swift, there wasn't a huge lag when fb and ren overtook chrono.

The people who do it religiously every day probably would, but what proportion of the population playing on a given day is part of that pool, as opposed to people who fractal when they feel like it and don't mind if they miss a few days, weeks, or even months?

Plus, fractals usually give ascendeds with specific stats that might not fit the new build. Sure, stat swap recipes exist, but they're expensive enough that they might not be top priority if renegade still does the job (and I've seen T4 groups not care about alacrity at all).

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