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The commander and death, (EoD spoilers)


BobbyT.7192

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So I was playing the story mission where you fight ankka. She wants you to call back the air ship she wants, and after you refuse saids she'll kill you, bring you back as a risen, and make you call it back.

Then she said that since you've already died, that won't work. (thanks balthy I guess) Curious.

So the commander is immune to being risen now? Possibly awakened too in theory? I did this with a sylvari too, and she made no mention about not being able to risen me due to race, just that I died before.

Something happened to the commander when they reanimated their body during The Departed. Makes me think if the commander is actually mortal anymore. Usually if someone comes back after death, its not usually as a mortal

Edit: Or maybe it a case of, you died once already. The next time its for good.

Edited by BobbyT.7192
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I don't recall that particular line of dialogue, but I don't believe the commander is immune to being Risen or awoken. However, we do know the commander dying and coming back to life has changed them in some way since the scarab plague ignores them (or just kills them instead of infesting them).

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For reference since the wiki doesn't have EoD story dialogue up yet, the exact phrasing from Ankka is:

"What if I killed you, brought you back, and forced you to make the call? Hm. No, you've already died."

But this doesn't come off as "the commander is immune to being risen". After all, even living beings can be made risen. Ankka is either unaware of how dragon corruption properly works, or is just making a jab at the fact that the Commander manages to defy expectations even when dying. If there was any reason for the Commander to be immune, it'd be because of being bonded to Aurene (and that's ignoring the highly unlikely theory of "dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons" that's pretty much disproven five times over in-game).

And no, the Commander is not an Awakened. Awakened are a specific type of undead created through Joko's power - the Commander was resurrected, not made undead.

4 hours ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

Usually if someone comes back after death, its not usually as a mortal

Edit: Or maybe it a case of, you died once already. The next time its for good.

Guild Wars 1 never followed such rules. Resurrection was much more commonplace then, being a lost art due to the Six Gods leaving Tyria between the two games.

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The only time the commander's death is indicated to have give special property to him, was in "long Live the lich", where the ghost queens said he had the "stench of the lost" and so would not be attacked by the Scarab Plague. anyway "stench of the lost" it doesn't seem like something literal, it can mean anything. 

Queen Dahlah: Which you yourself can lead! Oh yes, Commander, we can smell the stench of the Lost on you.
Queen Dahlah: Mmm, musky. The scarabs will smell it too. You're an unbefitting host. Lucky for you.
in the camp if human:
<Character name>: Turns out that because I've died before, I can't catch the plague. So I'll be on the front lines as well.
Edited by ugrakarma.9416
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17 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Guild Wars 1 never followed such rules. Resurrection was much more commonplace then, being a lost art due to the Six Gods leaving Tyria between the two games.

Well, resurrection in GW1 was more accessible with Resurrection shrines around the corner, or most people carrying around a signet. Its also probably alot easier to res someone when they had just died and the body is mostly intact.

Even The Judge mentioned that because the Commander's body had no more life in it, it was too late. Which to me implies that any known resurrection methods ever used probably wouldn't have worked.

Commander did have to claim the power from the "Eater of Souls" to come back, whos to say that didn't effect him more than we think.

17 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

But this doesn't come off as "the commander is immune to being risen". After all, even living beings can be made risen. Ankka is either unaware of how dragon corruption properly works, or is just making a jab at the fact that the Commander manages to defy expectations even when dying. If there was any reason for the Commander to be immune, it'd be because of being bonded to Aurene (and that's ignoring the highly unlikely theory of "dragon minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons" that's pretty much disproven five times over in-game).

The tone Ankka used here doesn't seem like she was making a comment on the commanders tenacity, but thats a subjective opinion.

Plus she was a necromancer inquest scientists, who worked at thaumanova (as a intern mind you), under scarlet and spent years lost in the mist. Discovering how small she was compared to the Gods and Dragons. I'm sure she knew more about dragon corruption better than most.

17 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

And no, the Commander is not an Awakened. Awakened are a specific type of undead created through Joko's power - the Commander was resurrected, not made undead.

I didn't mean imply that commander was an Awakened, just that it might have been possible that he couldn't be awokened or risened.

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9 hours ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

Well, resurrection in GW1 was more accessible with Resurrection shrines around the corner, or most people carrying around a signet. Its also probably alot easier to res someone when they had just died and the body is mostly intact.

Even The Judge mentioned that because the Commander's body had no more life in it, it was too late. Which to me implies that any known resurrection methods ever used probably wouldn't have worked.

Commander did have to claim the power from the "Eater of Souls" to come back, whos to say that didn't effect him more than we think.

The level of resurrection possible in GW1 has always been a bit debated due to forced story deaths (Rurik, Saidra, Togo, etc.), but it indeed it was canon and technically more common given that it is canonically completely lost in GW2. The first person to have a realistic attempt at resurrection for centuries was Gaheron Baelfire, through use of the Eternal Flame which remains a mystery of unknown origins.

As to the Eater of Souls' power, it was simply a burst of life force caused by the release of captured souls. Which truth be told isn't all that special - though using it to resurrect... might be? I guess ArenaNet could use this to make the Commander even more of a special cookie, but I'm not seeing that in this dialogue.

Quote

The tone Ankka used here doesn't seem like she was making a comment on the commanders tenacity, but thats a subjective opinion.

Plus she was a necromancer inquest scientists, who worked at thaumanova (as a intern mind you), under scarlet and spent years lost in the mist. Discovering how small she was compared to the Gods and Dragons. I'm sure she knew more about dragon corruption better than most.

Ankka has a complete, creepy monotone after the first story instance. I don't think there's much way to figure out intent behind the tone alone.

As to her history - most of Ankka's knowledge on risen corruption is self-taught based off of Harbingers and is potentially outdated. And realizing your 100-ish year lifespan is insignificant compared to beings that live several dozen, if not hundred, millennia is not really a feat showcasing intense knowledge of the world's functions, tbh.

And even assuming she knew just as much as the experts of the three fields she dabbled in:

  • The Inquest's study of dragon magic by the end of the personal story extends as far as "let's expose things to unfiltered dragon corruption and see what happens" more or less (and that's at Crucible of Eternity - the replacement lab for Thaumanova).
  • Scarlet kept her true intentions close to heart and even then only really showed any knowledge in Mordremoth's corruption.
  • Harbingers actively avoid delving too deep into Zhaitanic magic and smothered it with magic from the land and spirits to avoid becoming corrupted. Ankka ignored those particular practices.

So most of Ankka's knowledge on risen corruption is probably self-taught, based off of Harbingers, and potentially outdated.

Quote

I didn't mean imply that commander was an Awakened, just that it might have been possible that he couldn't be awokened or risened.

There's no reason presented why they couldn't be made undead or corrupted by dragons (aside from plot armor).

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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4 minutes ago, Infinity.2876 said:

The real question is how do waypoints being you back to life?

They don’t. When you waypoint you aren’t dead, you’re defeated, and making a tactical retreat.

For me, the real question is how does a massage rally you when you’re downed? 

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53 minutes ago, Infinity.2876 said:

The real question is how do waypoints being you back to life?

Canonically, players don't die.

This is why it's called defeated state, not dead state. The canonical lore is that they're unconscious (and waypoints mechanical functions don't match lore functions, as in lore characters must stand underneath waypoints to use them).

Of course this already confusing little piece of mechanics-telling-lore got muddled further in an update in IIRC 2018 which renamed "Revive" to "Resurrect" (a canonically lost art by GW2's time) to help players differentiate players being Downed vs Defeated states.

 

Also fun fact: NPCs that can be revived similarly aren't dead. Unlike PCs, you can actually mechanically tell the difference much easier. If they can be revived, they're unconscious not dead.

48 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

They don’t. When you waypoint you aren’t dead, you’re defeated, and making a tactical retreat.

For me, the real question is how does a massage rally you when you’re downed? 

There's an event in Snowden Drifts which basically establishes "revival art" as magic and how the NPCs involved in this escort quest don't know this magic and thus cannot continue without someone (namely, the PCs) who do.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escort_the_supply_dolyak_to_Snowdrift_Haven

I believe this is the event, but wiki doesn't have the dialogue I recall.

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