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Event inactivity system is breaking event rewards


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Hey, ANet, might want to modify the event tag inactivity system. It is making some events uncompleteable. 
This includes some EoD events, so it's baffling to me that it made it into the game like this.

What it is: After killing some event-linked mobs, and then doing nothing for the rest of the event, you'd get rewards. ANet didn't like this, so they came up with the event tag inactivity thing. Ever seen an event go gray in your bar? That means it's inactive: your tag for the event died, and if it ends, you get no rewards for it. 

This breaks several events in the game: you can't get rewards for them. Verdant Brink's survivor escort, for example. Revive the survivors, escort them back to base, fight off two or three spawns of enemies along the way, and then... the event turns gray just as the last survivor is walking into camp. Event ends. No rewards.

ANet, please fix.

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Is this the same thing as the message "you are not longer take part in the event" or what the message was? The bugged one, you get every now and then, even if you are just in the event and mobs dosn't show up for half a minute or so and the system says, welp, bad for you, now you are not part of the event anynomer, SORRY 😄 ...

At least i think, hope, its bugged because i get this message a lot. On the other hand, when i make map completion i often got rewards for events, i didn't even notice and in which I did not participate. It's so strange.

Edited by Fuchslein.8639
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Imagine you are participating in a collection event. You fill the progression meter half by yourself. Then, many, many other people show up. You stop collecting and rather do something else, because the event scaled too much, you already did a good job and want to de-escalate the scaling at least a bit. After 2 minutes you get kicked out the event due to "inactivity", even though you filled the meter half by yourself. -> Guild Wars 2.

Edited by Maria Murtor.7253
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5 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

That means it's inactive: your tag for the event died, and if it ends, you get no rewards for it. 

Well actually .... that is not how it works. You still get some rewards but you won't get credit for having done the event for things like achievements.

4 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I think that is a separate issue.

Uh ... it is both the same issue and a separate issue.

It is the same issue when it is actually real but a separate issue when that message shows up for an event you already completed.

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I've noticed this more in EoD maps than anywhere else. The first time it happened was during a certain coin-related event at a certain place in Arborstone. I was the only person in the area, but not the only person in Arborstone which meant that my contributions, even after collecting every coin, weren't enough to fill the bar. After I ran out of coins to collect, I lost participation credit because the game thought I wasn't contributing. A minute or so later, a few more people joined the event and finished it out, but I got nothing for it.

Not a big deal, but it did suck, and I imagine this gets worse when the event you're trying to do is needed for a collection and/or takes a long time to respawn if it bugs or fails.

I proceeded to see this happen 3 or 4 more times during various events around Cantha. Felt bad. It's a fine system when it's tuned properly to punish players who tag and abandon events, but it's clearly failing its purpose when a contributing player is locked out because there is no way for them to contribute further when the coins run out or the enemies stop spawning or a bug prevents an objective from progressing or appearing.

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24 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Well actually .... that is not how it works. You still get some rewards but you won't get credit for having done the event for things like achievements.

Literally nope. Literally wrong. Literal example in OP experienced today. Another one yesterday. Event, as far as you are concerned, just vanishes.

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i really think that it should take in account the size of player's contribution while deciding if they should be booted or not. there is a difference between someone who just slapped one enemy while passing by, and someone who has actually contributed to the event, and then either running out of things to do, or deciding to leave halfway through the even.

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33 minutes ago, Mutisija.5017 said:

i really think that it should take in account the size of player's contribution while deciding if they should be booted or not. there is a difference between someone who just slapped one enemy while passing by, and someone who has actually contributed to the event, and then either running out of things to do, or deciding to leave halfway through the even.

No it should not. It should just be ripped out of the game because it was a terrible idea. Some forgot to ask two simple questions, what problem is this trying to solve and does this actually improve the game?

If someone who just slaps one enemy while passing by shouldn't get credit then someone who just slaps one enemy as the event is ending shouldn't get credit either.

If someone who just slaps an enemy while passing by shouldn't get credit why is it okay for someone who is AFK(or practically equivalent) to get credit?

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38 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

what problem is this trying to solve

The problem was (as usual) players gaming the system.

 

For a while we had serious problems in open world with players surfing from event to event, barely participating, then moving on to the next event and so on until they got a fat load of rewards for tons of events they barely participated, while other players that stayed with an event to see it through only got a fraction of the reward (due to not "participating" in that many events since it takes time to properly finish off an event).

 

This "playstyle" of leeching events did get to a point where it was vastly more rewarding than normal gameplay, and employed by enough players that ANet apparently found it was imbalancing the game and game rewards, and/or just not healthy for the game in the long run. Some of the worst offenders got special treatment (e.g. the Tarir meta was changed so that you could no longer get event rewards for more than one octovine in the same meta), and the general game was treated to the "event participation decay" mechanic so people would actually see events through rather than just mass-tagging everything on a map.

 

The system isn't perfect. I've "lost" events for a variety of reasons, but to be fair most of the time it happens simply because I stopped participating and did something else. The cases where it's an obvious error because the game keeps you from participating long enough (like the above-mentioned coin collection event) a bug report is probably the best course of action.

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14 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

For a while we had serious problems in open world with players surfing from event to event, barely participating, then moving on to the next event and so on until they got a fat load of rewards for tons of events they barely participated, while other players that stayed with an event to see it through only got a fraction of the reward (due to not "participating" in that many events since it takes time to properly finish off an event).

If this is a problem SW RIBA should be deleted from the game.

17 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Some of the worst offenders got special treatment (e.g. the Tarir meta was changed so that you could no longer get event rewards for more than one octovine in the same meta)

I don't think Tarir is a valid example. That would require switching instances which means having to complete events ASAP. Tagging and running off is not very conducive to completion ASAP.

 

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Glad it's not just me who has issues with this system. I've never been one to tag events and run off, and all the introduction of this system ever did is give me anxiety about making sure I do enough for what it considers "active" to be. I remember it being even worse back when it was first introduced. That or it was never tinkered with and it's just luck, idk. I haven't seen it happen in some time, but even since coming back to the game, I've seen the same issue a couple times with wyvern patriarch in VB, where gliding around during "break the shield" phase sometimes gets me as inactive until I attack the boss again (and that's with trying to be active about grabbing eggs). The result is that I developed a habit of not going for eggs when shield is getting fairly close to down, to make sure I don't miss the attack phase, which is actually worse overall for helping...

IMO, the whole buggy thing should just be removed. It causes more problems for people playing legit than it does for those who are trying to game the system. People who game the system just find another way and it's poor design to make a game less enjoyable for most people because you're obsessed with playing whack-a-mole on a few who aren't playing how you intended.

I'm actually remembering now that this was one of the reasons I quit back then, was the introduction of this system, because it made me worry about participation instead of be engaged with the content of events.

Edited by Labjax.2465
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9 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

What it is: After killing some event-linked mobs, and then doing nothing for the rest of the event, you'd get rewards. ANet didn't like this, so they came up with the event tag inactivity thing. Ever seen an event go gray in your bar? That means it's inactive: your tag for the event died, and if it ends, you get no rewards for it. 

That's false as you do get the pop up chest rewards.  All that you lose are the rewards tied to the event itself such as XP and any applicable participation progression.

As an example, just look at the EoD maps.  For the past few weeks, I've been doing the first three metas twice a day to grind out the 54K imperial favor needed for the legendary weapons.  I routinely tag as many events as I can to maximize my gains.  Quite often I get the message that my participation is inactive or whatever it actually says.  When one of those events completes, I don't get the typical pop up notification with the XP rewards but I do get the generic pop-up chest that contains the exact same rewards as the versions you'd get with active participation.

I just tested this on a HoT map and I got the message indicating I was no longer participating in an event but I still got a pop-up chest with rewards.

Edited by mythical.6315
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2 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

No it should not. It should just be ripped out of the game because it was a terrible idea. Some forgot to ask two simple questions, what problem is this trying to solve and does this actually improve the game?

If someone who just slaps one enemy while passing by shouldn't get credit then someone who just slaps one enemy as the event is ending shouldn't get credit either.

If someone who just slaps an enemy while passing by shouldn't get credit why is it okay for someone who is AFK(or practically equivalent) to get credit?

Exactly. All it does is take a system that was originally designed to encourage a lively open world feel doing dynamic events together and turn it into elitist fiddling over who deserves what. And if you really go down that road to its conclusion, it gets very messy very fast. I get that (allegedly) there was a major problem with people tagging events and not helping, but this was a poor solution (I never recall seeing this issue myself back when I was playing before it was implemented, but ok...). It was probably affecting their economy, so they freaked out instead of taking their time with the problem. That's the most generous read of it I can give.

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1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I get that (allegedly) there was a major problem with people tagging events and not helping, but this was a poor solution (I never recall seeing this issue myself back when I was playing before it was implemented, but ok...). It was probably affecting their economy, so they freaked out instead of taking their time with the problem. That's the most generous read of it I can give.

Pretty sure that is not the reason. I think a reason was given back when HoT was launched which is also when the system was introduced but I don't remember what the reason was. I do remember thinking it was a good idea for some reason.

It doesn't really make sense because this system was never implemented in core. If it was really a problem then it would have been applied everywhere.

 

Edited by Khisanth.2948
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6 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

The problem was (as usual) players gaming the system.

 

For a while we had serious problems in open world with players surfing from event to event, barely participating, then moving on to the next event and so on until they got a fat load of rewards for tons of events they barely participated, while other players that stayed with an event to see it through only got a fraction of the reward (due to not "participating" in that many events since it takes time to properly finish off an event).

 

This "playstyle" of leeching events did get to a point where it was vastly more rewarding than normal gameplay, and employed by enough players that ANet apparently found it was imbalancing the game and game rewards, and/or just not healthy for the game in the long run. Some of the worst offenders got special treatment (e.g. the Tarir meta was changed so that you could no longer get event rewards for more than one octovine in the same meta), and the general game was treated to the "event participation decay" mechanic so people would actually see events through rather than just mass-tagging everything on a map.

 

The system isn't perfect. I've "lost" events for a variety of reasons, but to be fair most of the time it happens simply because I stopped participating and did something else. The cases where it's an obvious error because the game keeps you from participating long enough (like the above-mentioned coin collection event) a bug report is probably the best course of action.

It's almost as if the bronze/silver/gold reward for event participation was designed specifically to solve that exact issue.

And yet...

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3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

It's almost as if the bronze/silver/gold reward for event participation was designed specifically to solve that exact issue.

And yet...

Tbh, that system is broken in its own ways, too (which might be what you're getting at, I dunno). I recall recently doing that event in AB where you're picking up the pact medical supplies and bringing them to the downed pact people to get them up. I mostly (or completely, don't remember which) avoided combat and instead ran around doing prob 60% of the getting them up at least and got bronze participation lol. I believe my mistake was avoiding combat. Combat seems to be a quick way to get to gold in any event, provided there's a way to do combat as part of the event.

I think the closest thing they have to something that is moderately fair in this way is the map participation % design in some maps or metas, such as drizzlewood. I think it's a decent way of rewarding you for participating in events along the way, without punishing you for failing to act on opaque rules. And in general really, I think drizzlewood is a great model for how a lot of other map's reward systems could be improved. It doesn't have to be as lucrative, but the concept of reward tracks and map participation over time with some periodic rewards seems pretty cool in practice.

Like imagine if VB had something like the troop evaluation chests that relates to how many rally points you hold. I bet a lot more people would go for t4 and organize t4 runs.

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2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Tbh, that system is broken in its own ways, too (which might be what you're getting at, I dunno). I recall recently doing that event in AB where you're picking up the pact medical supplies and bringing them to the downed pact people to get them up. I mostly (or completely, don't remember which) avoided combat and instead ran around doing prob 60% of the getting them up at least and got bronze participation lol. I believe my mistake was avoiding combat. Combat seems to be a quick way to get to gold in any event, provided there's a way to do combat as part of the event.

I think the closest thing they have to something that is moderately fair in this way is the map participation % design in some maps or metas, such as drizzlewood. I think it's a decent way of rewarding you for participating in events along the way, without punishing you for failing to act on opaque rules. And in general really, I think drizzlewood is a great model for how a lot of other map's reward systems could be improved. It doesn't have to be as lucrative, but the concept of reward tracks and map participation over time with some periodic rewards seems pretty cool in practice.

Like imagine if VB had something like the troop evaluation chests that relates to how many rally points you hold. I bet a lot more people would go for t4 and organize t4 runs.

And a lot of players don't like those kind of maps with those reward systems because of the time commitment required to get rewards. 

This was one of the largest complaints about HoT when it originally came out before the devs made modifications to them in that April update.  I seem to recall players complaining about the length of the Drizzlewood meta as well.

Another issue with those system is how they can do the exact opposite of what you’re trying to accomplish. For Dragonstand, you just have to tag as many of the pre-events at the start to get your participation up and then you can just AFK until the towers while collecting all of the rewards. Drizzlewood is not any different as players would just have to participate in an event maybe once every 20-30 min to prevent their participation level from decaying. They got all of the rewards as the active players minus the rewards tied to the events themselves. 

Edited by mythical.6315
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