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Do engineers have anything to show for losing access to the 2nd set of sigils when in combat?


pbalint.1607

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Since we can't weapon swap mid-combat to a weapon with sigils, this effectively means, we only have 2 sigils in play instead of potential 4, if we consider weapon swap sigils, or sigils, that have cooldowns, right?

 

(E.g., random example:

Other classes could leverage

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/c/c3/Superior_Sigil_of_Air.png Superior Sigil of Air Unleash a lightning strike upon critically hitting a foe. (Cooldown: 3 Seconds)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/5/56/Superior_Sigil_of_Fire.png Superior Sigil of Fire Trigger a flame blast with a 240 radius upon critically hitting a foe. (Cooldown: 5 Seconds)

for some extra burst, and swap to the 2nd set with 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/a/ab/Superior_Sigil_of_Blood.png Superior Sigil of Blood Steal a foe's health upon landing a critical hit. (Cooldown: 5 Seconds)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/2/24/Superior_Sigil_of_Generosity.png Superior Sigil of Generosity Transfer a condition upon critically hitting a foe. (Cooldown: 6 Seconds)

For some extra sustain

)

Edited by pbalint.1607
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  • pbalint.1607 changed the title to Do engineers have anything to show for losing access to the 2nd set of sigils when in combat?

We can trigger "on Swap" sigils without being stuck in a weapon set we might not want to be in (can just trigger and drop a kit to get the sigil effect). 

And, we also don't have to buy 4 sigils, that's a plus!

 

But, yeah it's a minor issue IMO, we can't slot a Bloodlust sigil on a weapon swap we don't really use in combat or stuff like that, but we have access to potentially 35 skills at once where most professions are at 15-20 (if you count secondary weapon), hard to complain about our weird design.

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Also don't forget: we can still use a stackable Sigill on a second weapon, and swap out of combat while keeping the stacks. It's not as good as having 4, but 3 is usually close enough. It's often done on WvW-Heal-Scrapper, to utilize Sigill of life, energy and transference all at the same time (since stacks persist on weapon swap) and weapon swap Sigill proc on kit swap as well

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Indeed the no cd swap means we can have 100% uptime on weaponswap traits with no "unfavorable" weaponkit selected since engineer doesnt really have usefull secondary weapons, you always focus on one (ie 4x pistols for condi, 2x rifles for power, etc).

Is it worth the cost? Does it matter?

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In PvE:

Most builds are using sigils that provide static buffs, like Force, Impact, Concentration, &c. So all that happens is engineers save a few gold not buying a second weapon set, mostly.

 

In SPvP/WvW:

Cleansing and Energy are both incredibly high-value, so as long as you can still trigger those on cooldown (via kits, for example), you're not really behind the curve. The only class that really double-dips sigils super effectively is Fast Hands warrior, and they have so many other problems that nobody really cares.

Oh, and in terms of the specific example presented (chaining on-crit sigils): Explosive Entrance makes up for it pretty well, imo.

Edited by ASP.8093
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  • 2 weeks later...

The thing is that engi doesn't have a lot of weapons, and the ones they do have are highly specialized. For example, a power build will never want to swap to pistol/pistol from rifle and vice versa. Kits on the other hand are extremely bloated with lots of value. ANY engineer build that does not run a kit is severely nerfing itself for basically no reason. Grenade kit has insane condi damage and strong power damage. Bomb kit is engi's best auto outside of the elite spec weapon autos and fire bomb and concussion bomb are excellent power and condi skills. Elixir gun has stupid sustain and great support. Mortar kit is utility on steroids. Tool kit exists, but has engi's second block. It's all about knowing what you need for what situation. Engi doesn't need a second set of weapon sigils as kits are so good that they don't need it. And none of the good builds in pve run weapon swap sigils anyways. Engi also gets a bunch of modifiers in their traits. They get a free second bursting sigil with a malice sigil for condi builds in thermal vision. Hematic focus and high caliber are insane crit modifiers. Modified ammunition is so good that dps benches bench on 10 condis rather than all of them. Chemical rounds, serrated steel, and incendiary powder just cap condition durations for your pistol skills and bleeding and burning for basically no investment. Glass cannon, explosive temper, big boomer, and shrapnel in explosives are ridiculous dps increases. Inventions has a great support modifiers with energy amplifier. Alchemy has even better support modifiers with compounding chemicals, health insurance, purity of purpose, HGH, comeback cure. Tools has decent modifiers with excessive energy. Scrapper has applied force and object in motion. Holosmith has solar focusing lens and laser's edge. Mech has J-Drive signets. And there a lot more that I didn't mention. 

TL;DR Engi's kits and traits are powerful as hell and a second set of sigils will be kinda busted ngl.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/12/2022 at 12:33 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

You still have a second set of sigils... You just dont need (or have) a practical secondary weapon set.

So this is the part that confuses me when reading this thread. When you say we have a second set, but don't need a secondary weapon set. Could you unpack some of this for me?

 

If all you mean is we have a second set of useless sigils while in combat, then okay that's understandable.

 

However, when you add the following:

 

On 5/2/2022 at 6:25 AM, Custodio.6134 said:

Also don't forget: we can still use a stackable Sigill on a second weapon, and swap out of combat while keeping the stacks. It's not as good as having 4, but 3 is usually close enough. It's often done on WvW-Heal-Scrapper, to utilize Sigill of life, energy and transference all at the same time (since stacks persist on weapon swap) and weapon swap Sigill proc on kit swap as well

 

On 5/2/2022 at 9:08 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Indeed the no cd swap means we can have 100% uptime on weaponswap traits with no "unfavorable" weaponkit selected since engineer doesnt really have usefull secondary weapons, you always focus on one (ie 4x pistols for condi, 2x rifles for power, etc).

Is it worth the cost? Does it matter?

 

Does this mean that swapping right before combat you'll keep the previous weapons' sigil abilities on the weapon you swapped to use?

 

If the first weapon you swap from has the same sigils that the second weapon you're going to use has then you're stacking the sigils from both weapon sets? And is this what you are referring to when you say 4x pistols or 2x rifles?

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2 hours ago, Oriens.5630 said:

So this is the part that confuses me when reading this thread. When you say we have a second set, but don't need a secondary weapon set. Could you unpack some of this for me?

 

If all you mean is we have a second set of useless sigils while in combat, then okay that's understandable.

 

However, when you add the following:

 

 

 

Does this mean that swapping right before combat you'll keep the previous weapons' sigil abilities on the weapon you swapped to use?

 

If the first weapon you swap from has the same sigils that the second weapon you're going to use has then you're stacking the sigils from both weapon sets? And is this what you are referring to when you say 4x pistols or 2x rifles?

Engineer OOC weapon swap works just like any other class. It's usage for stacking sigils is fine (assuming you can remember to swap). What I meant is that due to the way engineer weapons go to extremes for power/condi with very limited options instead of being "balanced", there's no point in swapping to another type. You use what you focus on because the other set with do kitten damage if you change anything. 

Note that I'm talking about the only mode that matters of course, WvW. 

In fancypants PvE you can build for both power+condi without getting roflstomped by enemy condi bunkers or power builds, so there one could argue that depending on the encounter, a ranged over melee and vice versa might be a decent idea. But since most encounters is melee stack on boss... meh I'd say balancing with a ranged kit is pretty much always better.

Edited by Dawdler.8521
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The Engineer kit to weapon swap is so much better than the regular weapon swap because you do not have that long cooldown between swap. 

 

Utilize that swap as much as possible whether as a heal scrapper or dps.  It is like a 1 second internal cooldown. You can can rotate back and forth so your opponent has no idea what attack you will use next.

 

My favorite is when someone gets cocky and does not realize I was holding back to let them feel confident.

 

 I will be cycling through my grenades. Throw a blind, switch to rifle... "jump shot""grenade barrage"  game over for them. 

 

Or my heal scrapper. I use pistol/shield for my weapons. 

 

I'm med kit healing. Some ranged class starts shooting me so I swap to pistol/shield and pop my #4 Magnetic Shield to reflect. Then, if need be my #5 to throw my shield to daze the enemy, then back to my med kit to heal without having to wait for that 9 second cooldown. 

 

Switching from a kit to weapon back to kit with such ease is for better than 2 weapon sets. Far far superior.

Edited by Jitters.9401
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