The Skyscale Quest Line Is WAY Too Grindy, And Insulting [Merged]

[Freya.9075]

1 minute ago, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

Considering GW2 gets new endgame content every 2-3 years at best, "never out of date" is a funny line.

 

In FFXIV I would be getting the gear I need while doing the NEW content I actually want to play within a week. In GW2 you spend 22 weeks doing old abandoned time-gated content so you can do old abandoned time-gated content more conveniently.

Does the expansions in gw2 devaluate your legendary gear? Or your ascended gear? The beauty of gw2 is that you can play whatever you want. In the whole game and not only the new content. Even start areas gets populated by max level players. I tried ff14 and it felt clunky and I barely saw any players. All games have pros and cons, but your point about legendaries in gw2 is invalid since ascended gives the exact same stats. 

[mythical.6315]

34 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Sorry, it's late -- I misread your response. My bad.

So, you are saying that you get to all events in time, can keep up with every squad, without the use of the Skyscale, jackal portals or thermal tubes?

No worries about the mistake as it's understandable given that it's late for you.

As for your question, yes I was able to when I did that map.  Keep in mind that when I did this I had griffon.  The topic is about skyscale specifically and not flying mounts in general.  I just wanted to put that last sentence in there just in case.

Edited May 3, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Sugar Min.5834]

27 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

That is an unfair standard because even using all of those methods one might not be able to keep up with every squad all of the time.

This is so misleading. I don't have a Skyscale from day one till today and I never have problem keeping up with any squads in any metas and that includes Dragonfall and Drizzlewods.

Sure the first few times you may trailed a little behind but so do those new to the map with Skyscale. I have done many meta runs in Dragonfall and Drizzlewoods, and when i became familiar with those maps, most of time I was way ahead of the main squad and many times I have to slow down so as not to overtake the Tag.

If you say otherwise, I can understand. You just need to practise more on the Griffon.

edit: I banned myself from getting the Skyscale because the grind is so ridiculous. Over the years I have saved much money from not being able to buy the dragon skins 🙂

Edited May 3, 2022 by Mil.3562

[Ashen.2907]

11 minutes ago, Mil.3562 said:

This is so misleading. I don't have a Skyscale from day one till today and I never have problem keeping up with any squads in any metas and that includes Dragonfall and Drizzlewods.

Sure the first few times you may trailed a little behind but so do those new to the map with Skyscale. I have done many meta runs in Dragonfall and Drizzlewoods, and when i became familiar with those maps, most of time I was way ahead of the main squad and many times I have to slow down so as not to overtake the Tag.

If you say otherwise, I can understand. You just need to practise more on the Griffon.

edit: I banned myself from getting the Skyscale because the grind is so ridiculous. Over the years I have saved much money from not being able to buy the dragon skins 🙂

You might want to reread what I posted as nothing you say here contradicts what I daid, nor is any aspect of what I said misleading.

[Akisohida.8963]

Yes, people have made good points.

But I can't help but hate this, as I sit here waiting an hour for the Path to Ascension: Augury Rock event to come, so I can fight a doppleganger, so I can get the Courage egg collection, which will only lead to yet MORE time-gated content.

 

So I'm waiting on a time gate to get to yet another time gate.

I'm sorry but how can people defend this? What happens if I get unlucky and my map does not have enough people who give 2 farts about doing the meta event? I miss it and have to wait until the next time it starts and hope beyond hope I get a map where people want to do it, or I'm waiting AGAIN.

 

And when I'm done waiting? I get to wait some more.

Sorry but, to me, this is a stupid level of time gating. Wait to do 5 minutes of things to wait some more.

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

Yes, people have made good points.

But I can't help but hate this, as I sit here waiting an hour for the Path to Ascension: Augury Rock event to come, so I can fight a doppleganger, so I can get the Courage egg collection, which will only lead to yet MORE time-gated content.

 

So I'm waiting on a time gate to get to yet another time gate.

I'm sorry but how can people defend this? What happens if I get unlucky and my map does not have enough people who give 2 farts about doing the meta event? I miss it and have to wait until the next time it starts and hope beyond hope I get a map where people want to do it, or I'm waiting AGAIN.

 

And when I'm done waiting? I get to wait some more.

Sorry but, to me, this is a stupid level of time gating. Wait to do 5 minutes of things to wait some more.

As much as I agree with your sentiment I think that it is fair to suggest that there are solutions to the, "what if there are not enough people," aspect. Be social. Join a guild that helps people. Help guildies yourself. 

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

Yes, people have made good points.

But I can't help but hate this, as I sit here waiting an hour for the Path to Ascension: Augury Rock event to come, so I can fight a doppleganger, so I can get the Courage egg collection, which will only lead to yet MORE time-gated content.

 

So I'm waiting on a time gate to get to yet another time gate.

I'm sorry but how can people defend this? What happens if I get unlucky and my map does not have enough people who give 2 farts about doing the meta event? I miss it and have to wait until the next time it starts and hope beyond hope I get a map where people want to do it, or I'm waiting AGAIN.

 

And when I'm done waiting? I get to wait some more.

Sorry but, to me, this is a stupid level of time gating. Wait to do 5 minutes of things to wait some more.

When I did it I tended to look around for the events that were soon, and do those. I didn’t spend an hour sitting around waiting for Augury Rock because I didn’t decide I needed to do the Augury Rock portion during one specific play session.

Grinds are more grindy when one has a single focus to beeline to the end.

[Ashantara.8731]

3 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

That is an unfair standard because even using all of those methods one might not be able to keep up with every squad all of the time.

Hmm, that doesn't really answer the question whether you come even close to keeping up without my mentioned means of traveling.

3 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

As for your question, yes I was able to when I did that map.  Keep in mind that when I did this I had griffon.  The topic is about skyscale specifically and not flying mounts in general.  I just wanted to put that last sentence in there just in case.

I see. 🙂

Edited May 4, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

I'm sorry but how can people defend this?

It's not hard to defend ... time-gates are just not an unreasonable approach to devs implementing content in an MMO. I mean, we wait for all kinds of things in the game. Almost all events are on a timer. Dailies are a timer. Resets for raids and instanced content are timered. GW2 isn't unique in this aspect either. 

The only thing that differentiates this from anything else that is timed is the fact that people don't have patience to obtain something they want. 

This isn't a question of being able to keep up with a group doing content. If that's the problem, then the floodgates open to arguing that everyone should just start with full gear and everything unlocked to 'keep up' with people doing things they want to do. That's just not how it works. The whole concept of 'earning' a position in the game through progression is part of what makes the game itself. That's just how MMO's work ... they wouldn't if it didn't work like that. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Ashen.2907]

33 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Hmm, that doesn't really answer the question whether you come even close to keeping up without my mentioned means of traveling.

I see. 🙂

Coming close to keeping up wasnt the question asked though. 

Personally, I recently got around to doing the return to stuff and was able to keep up, more than half of the time, with my griffon (I do not have a skyscale). I consider this reasonable because it was pretty clear that the commander and squad on this map were much more familiar with its layout than I. Navigation is a skill like any other and of course those who practice more will be better at it.

[Ashantara.8731]

23 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Coming close to keeping up wasnt the question asked though.

Of course not. I was merely pointing out how the OP has no clue what a great QoL feature the Skyscale is.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Why do lengthier tasks exist in MMO's?

 

1) Some players demand them.

2) Some players want things to strive for, and play many hours a day.

3) Players in general complain when there is nothing to do -- and no game developer can create new content faster than players can play through it to the point of boredom, absent needing to keep playing to get the shiny of choice.

4) The MMO business model's profitability is based around keeping players playing.  Whether the game has a sub or and in-game-store, players who aren't playing will not pay.

 

Why do some players call these lengthier tasks "grind?"

 

1) The word grind has a negative connotation.  Social media is rife with the use of such words to try to build agreement that discussion point X is bad.

2) Some see the lengthier tasks as a barrier to obtaining what they want.  While they may not want instant gratification, many people in the First World these days are accustomed to getting what they want without a lot of effort -- when  it come to fun.  This is especially a problem if their real life goals and aspirations are hard to come by.

3) The tasks are not themselves fun to some players -- but they want the carrot at the end of the task.  In some cases, there is even an aversion to the task.  One example of such is the Gift of Battle obtained via WvW reward track.  The shortest path to obtain the Gift is to fully engage with WvW, but often those who complain have no interest in WvW at all.

4 Impatience.

 

As far as the Skyscale tasks go... I've done it.  I was happy to finish.  I knew it would take time, so I decided going in (long after Season 4 had given way to Icebrood Saga) I was going to take my time and not try to do it all at once.  Even with that approach, it took me less than a week.  It helped that I had a raft of Eternal Ice from strike missions to get map mats, of course.  I can appreciate that one person's, "That was mildly tedious." is another's, "It was a breeze," and a third's, "this is an unbearable grind."  However, I've seen far worse in MMO's in the past.

[Dante.1508]

13 hours ago, narwhalsbend.7059 said:

That's what... 40 golds, a few hearts, and a few meta events?

And a painful strike mission some nice person helped me yesterday.. with it. Unfortunately 3 of us were dead for 25% of the strike.. one poor person was dead 70% of the strike, luckily me and another went down on the last 16% of the bosses health.. the rest finished it though..

Great game type how to make customers feel like dead weight. I'll never do another one sadly.

[HonesltlyX.7164]

Skyscale wasn't designed to be a sprint grind. It's supposed to be a long-term goal. Unfortunately, it's so darn useful that everyone "needs" one and needs ones NOW.

[Dante.1508]

  

22 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

I take it you've either never done the meta before or did not look at which way people go after the crystal phase?

The zip lines are not hidden in the rubbles. It's located quite visibly at the side of the platform across from where the crystals are.

Yes, using a skyscale and attempting to climb will probably take 4 or 5 times as long to reach the top. When the meta is not on, the ship's waypoint will be unavailable but you can still get to the top at any time using the zip lines. Although, after the meta has started, the top will have void corruptions until the crystal phase is completed.

I've done it once and used my skyscale to get up there took me about 3 minutes.. I saw no ziplines.

[The Boz.2038]

1 hour ago, Dante.1508 said:

I saw no ziplines.

They were hidden in the rubble.

😛

[Razadune.9260]

1 hour ago, HonesltlyX.7164 said:

Skyscale wasn't designed to be a sprint grind. It's supposed to be a long-term goal. Unfortunately, it's so darn useful that everyone "needs" one and needs ones NOW.

     

I think this is the biggest issue. The mount is game changing in a way that makes it fundamentally important to the shared experience in open world play.    

     

And I think people are absolutely right to question the grind behind unlocking it as a result. It's better now than it was a year ago; at least the materials gathering is much more reasonable than it was before the "Return To" achievements existed... but it still has too many tedious steps involved that really serve no purpose.    

     

My wife is closing in on finishing it up this week, and it's been a bit eye opening to see it from someone else's perspective. I didn't think it was terrible when I did it myself over a year ago, but now...she's held up going to Icebrood and EoD until she gets it unlocked, so it became a soft barrier to a large chunk of the game's content. It's also something to have the person you play with every day not be able to traverse the terrain like you can, and have many weeks as a barrier to getting the ability to do it. It's entirely too much of a grind for something so important to being able to experience the game that's there after you have it, imo. 

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

This isn't a question of being able to keep up with a group doing content.

     

Yeah, it is.    

     

There's a massive time barrier there, not to mention the gold involved to pay for it. The griffon is even more of one just for the gold alone. Both easily prevent a player from gearing up while they dedicate the time and resources to unlocking one or the other. And the gear example you use is kind of moot, since the expansions come with a free level 80 that comes fully geared and ready to play.    

     

There's plenty to unlock afterward, like masteries, achievements, elite specs, other gear sets for different or better builds, and so on. "That's how MMO's are" isn't a good argument for why something that sucks shouldn't be improved and never has been; there's more than enough you need to do after getting the ability to traverse the game like most other players are at this point, that just getting those transportation options shouldn't be as much of a barrier as they are.

[Luthan.5236]

11 hours ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

Yes, people have made good points.

But I can't help but hate this, as I sit here waiting an hour for the Path to Ascension: Augury Rock event to come, so I can fight a doppleganger, so I can get the Courage egg collection, which will only lead to yet MORE time-gated content.

 

So I'm waiting on a time gate to get to yet another time gate.

I'm sorry but how can people defend this? What happens if I get unlucky and my map does not have enough people who give 2 farts about doing the meta event? I miss it and have to wait until the next time it starts and hope beyond hope I get a map where people want to do it, or I'm waiting AGAIN.

It is good that you accept some of the points others made - by recognizing them as "good". About the events like Augury Rock: I think such collections like the one with the Skyscale ... were also meant to keep such older meta events alive. (Otherwise they do not really have that much interesting to them and not too good rewards -  people might not play them a lot.)

This is why why you still find a lot of people doing them though. There usually are multiple other things associated with it that lead people back to such events. Not only the Skyscale. At least with going at th evening and checking lfg early (if no group there maybe asking in map chat if someone can tag up and post in lfg - if you do not have a commander tag yourself) should increase chances. I have rarely seen such meta events fail. Unless it is really an unpopular thing as the Ice Floe south in Thunderhead Peaks and you go there without looking to gather people early.

So ... these things actually are needed to keep other content alive. ("Tyrian Service Medal" achievement - I think it was needed for the other legendary trinket? - sent you back to some old stuff even in Orr where you needed to wait hours for some event ot pop up. No fixed timers. That one was annoying.)

The timed events with fixed schedule can be planned pretty well and you can do other stuff while waiting - on the map. Or outside the game. Usually if there are a lot of timed meta events or world bosses I did switch from one to the next one. Wiki with the timers helps.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[disco.9302]

On 5/2/2022 at 2:42 AM, Akisohida.8963 said:

There no reason to stop the player dead when this is not end-game content anymore.

As mentioned by others already, the skyscale mount was introduced with the War Eternal LWS4 episode May 2019. In terms of mounts, this was the endgame PVE content from that release until EOD which was February 2022 (no other mounts added in that period) .  The skyscale has not been eclipsed or made irrelevant by any new additions, so arguably it is still endgame.

 

On 5/2/2022 at 2:20 AM, Akisohida.8963 said:

And according to the wiki; even after I do all this; I have time-gated quests that total to 3 days & 8 hours? Why? Why?!

Why is this mount buried behind the worst grind I have run into yet? And an arbitrary 3-and-a-half-day time gate? Why? Because the mount can hover? Because it can fly slightly  upwards?

 

The mount is not super powerful. I can't fly anywhere. I can't break the game. I don't get some godly attack. It does not raise my stats. I can't even fly that high compared to the gryphon.

You seem to be torn between "why is the mount so difficult to get" and "it's not that valuable".  Maybe you should ask if it's worth it since you don't like it that much and you don't appreciate the effort needed to acquire it.

 

On the whole, the point of the quest was to take you on an adventure, as most of the game tries to. If you didn't like the complexity, you could always take it slower step by step. 

Was it a grind? yes. 

Was it too much? not if you wanted the reward.

[Obtena.7952]

6 hours ago, tclark.8956 said:

 

Yeah, it is.    

 

No, it's not. Again, this is about progression in an MMO, NOT about making sure everyone 'doesn't suck' to keep up with each other. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Great game type how to make customers feel like dead weight.

So you were feeling like a dead weight because you've failed something after 84% of the encounter? 

Instead of "feeling like a dead weight" and trying to blame content for it, maybe it's better to understand that learning stuff can take some time. Expecting perfection from yourself right away is not exactly reasonable or even fair (to yourself), both ingame and irl.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

19 hours ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

Yes, people have made good points.

But I can't help but hate this, as I sit here waiting an hour for the Path to Ascension: Augury Rock event to come, so I can fight a doppleganger, so I can get the Courage egg collection, which will only lead to yet MORE time-gated content.

 

So I'm waiting on a time gate to get to yet another time gate.

I'm sorry but how can people defend this? What happens if I get unlucky and my map does not have enough people who give 2 farts about doing the meta event? I miss it and have to wait until the next time it starts and hope beyond hope I get a map where people want to do it, or I'm waiting AGAIN.

 

And when I'm done waiting? I get to wait some more.

Sorry but, to me, this is a stupid level of time gating. Wait to do 5 minutes of things to wait some more.

You know you can do any other stuff you want -both ingame and out of it- inbetween the events, right?

[Dante.1508]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So you were feeling like a dead weight because you've failed something after 84% of the encounter? 

Instead of "feeling like a dead weight" and trying to blame content for it, maybe it's better to understand that learning stuff can take some time. Expecting perfection from yourself right away is not exactly reasonable or even fair (to yourself), both ingame and irl.

Laying there dead and not being able to help my team, yeah i was, i would even if i'd fallen at 1%..

It had zero to do with skill he cheap shotted us and knocked us down with a long cool down on our skills, then hit us as soon as we were on the ground.. the people who tried to ress us had another explosive effect on them.. which killed us.

That is just cheap timed skills designed to kill you no matter what. They are nothing to do with players skill its a poor mechanic which Anet has devised to make you lose.

Its a large reason i don't do content like this usually.. Skill has zero to do with it its all luck and chance.

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You know you can do any other stuff you want -both ingame and out of it- inbetween the events, right?

Not if you want certain rewards that only this junk gives.

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, it's not. Again, this is about progression in an MMO, NOT about making sure everyone 'doesn't suck' to keep up with each other. 

It very much is...

Why would you force customers into content like strikes that should never ever be in there ever, one it makes them feel useless, two it causes fights with the communities, three it broadens the divide between those communities and four it make people angry at the developers..

People who dislike raids, strikes, wvw, pvp etc, do not ever want to do them.. ever. Forcing your customer base into them does nothing good to your game socially or constructively.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Dante.1508 said:

It very much is...

Again, no ... MMO's are based on progression. Getting mounts is simply a progression to developing a character, which is what an MMO is all about. If people aren't willing to do the content to get things (and yes, not all content is going to cater to their ideas of 'fun' or 'not grindy'), then they should reconsider choosing to play MMO's in the first place. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[ugrakarma.9416]

think of skycale as "legendary mount", consider luckly they don't gated it behind a huge gold sink.

remind that griffon ins't even announced, its is a 'surprise' 300g gold sink.

theres no need for rage, the "big secret" is scheduling, make a goal to get it in 1~2 months, otherwise u will end in a huge burnout/frustation.

Edited May 5, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416