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Tired Of Willbender - Get It Under Control Please - Mobility Creep Is A Problem


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6 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

lol this has been the problem with teef since the game launched. too many teleports and in general classes with high mobility eliminate the defensive mechanic known as kiting. usually casters rely on kiting, and without it, playstyles and builds aren't viable. it was never a good idea to have such high mobility, and it ruins competitive play.

i used to enjoy staff zerker ele, yea thanks to HoT, daredevil and rev, it's not even meme worthy.

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7 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

As a guardian main, who does not play WB in PvP, I find WB disappointing. The damage is easily avoidable, if you understand what is going on. Compared to dealing with herald or thief, this is cake walk. And it is susceptible to condi. Sadly, the meta does not have much condi builds.

shows how bad you are, with this much light aura and resolution and low cooldown condi cleanses, i don't know how you die to condi unless you don't know how to press dodge and eat every single condi.

and how can it's damage be easily avoidable unless you just spam your keys mindlessly, it is literally 2x easier to land compared to herald.

Edited by felix.2386
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If it was any other class I’d see it getting nerfed, but Guardian is a special case. Meta will need to adjust to its presence (already sort of did) rather than willbender had to be adjusted. Unfortunately Anet will not let nerf it.

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First, I'm really surprised to see people who "play" Guardian saying "oh.. WB feels weak... it loses to condis.." like, have you people even PLAYED the spec? It's obviously ridiculously strong - it singlehandedly makes Herald obsolete.

 

Second.. thief has had this degree of mobility for years (and Herald to a lesser extent). And yes, Thief does do damage. If anything, WB's damage is easier to avoid because it lacks the same stealth and CC (looking at you, unblockable dazes), so almost everything has a visual tell to it aside from JI (but nobody's complaining about that on Ranger now, are they?)

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On 5/6/2022 at 3:28 AM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Exactly.

Let's go further into this:

  1. Symbol of Blades - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) 10s teleport CD. 8s with trait.
  2. Advancing Strike - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) 20s teleport CD, 16s with trait.
  3. Judge's Intervention - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) 40s teleport CD, 32s with trait. 1200 range, goes through walls and floors, no animation so it can be used to combo other large wind-up combos.
  4. Crashing Courage - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) 30s ground target teleport CD, 24s with trait. Immediately renews with Renewed Focus.

Let me point out the two skills you chose to neglect in your response to me:

  1. Rushing Justice - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)12s CD 800 range mobility skills that does not  require a target to use, 10s with trait.
  2. Flowing Resolve - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) 2x ammo skill on a 20s recharge, a mobility skill that is also an evasion skill, 16s with trait, does not require a target to use.

I should have said "most of its mobility skills" instead of "most of its teleports", which is what I meant at the time but typed it in wrong. Anyway, thanks for trying to inject propaganda into the thread calling me a liar, and trying to leave out information as to encourage the idea that Willbender had almost half the mobility that it actually has.

Careful with your forum plays man. Let's not get all heterogenius homoidiot here. It's just a thread discussion that we all knew was coming. Relax and stop trying to play so dirty.

At any rate, anyone can see very clearly from this single response and evaluation of all the teleports and mobility leaps that Willbender has, that its mobility is too loaded. It's too much. It's like a Reaper with beyond Daredevil level mobility. Defending it seems pompous and self-agenda driven tbh.

 

(Late reply, but OH sword skills don't get their CDs reduced by right-hand strength)

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   To be honest I find this spec akward and clunky to play. With a bit of lag (~90 ping) feels unforgiving and you die in a blink. When works is powerful, tho. But that's due the buffs, not due WB wasn't a total garbage at the release...

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2 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

First, I'm really surprised to see people who "play" Guardian saying "oh.. WB feels weak... it loses to condis.." like, have you people even PLAYED the spec? It's obviously ridiculously strong - it singlehandedly makes Herald obsolete.

 

Second.. thief has had this degree of mobility for years (and Herald to a lesser extent). And yes, Thief does do damage. If anything, WB's damage is easier to avoid because it lacks the same stealth and CC (looking at you, unblockable dazes), so almost everything has a visual tell to it aside from JI (but nobody's complaining about that on Ranger now, are they?)

Some comments:

  1. Power Herald was always the MVP class. To have something show up that is simply better than Power Herald in every way with no drawbacks, is just messed up.
  2. Thief mobility is fine imo because all of that mobility is generally just mobility and if any of it strikes, it's all single target strikes with relatively low damage that then needs to be combined with other attacks that actually have animation time to create significant damage output. Thief has also always been squishy so it has to take risk jumping in and out of team fights with its powerful role of surprise +ing. These were clearly the drawbacks intended upon the game's original design for such a fast mobile class that has such surprise striking potential.
  3. Willbender on the other hand doesn't need to worry about any of that because it has massive front loaded defenses to straight tank damage when popping into a team fight with a surprise teleport. Its strikes are all mostly massive AoE cleaves that hit EVERYTHING standing around it, including the intended target. These attacks don't even require a target like a Backstab as example. So its ability to surprise strike stealthed targets is high, because it doesn't need to actually see you. More experienced players know how to read where stealthed targets are attempting to reposition and all they have to do is start throwing out intuitively placed blind cleaves to keep dealing damage. Simply put, Willbender has all the perks of a Thief's speed & mobility with none of the drawbacks, and it also has all of the perks of a Power Reaper's AoE cleaving and very high damage output, with none of the drawbacks. Willbender is too loaded.
  4. Willbender's attacks are easier to avoid "for a little while" but it has SO MUCH gap closing and teleportation, that eventually any class just runs out of dodges, evades, invulns, blocks, w/e ect ect, and then there is no way to get away from the Willbender and it will kill you, and it happens fast. It's not that its strikes are super difficult to avoid, it's that the mobility it possesses allows it to stay on top of your head like 90% of the time engaging it, so it makes you burn through all of your defenses really fast if you don't want to die, and then when you bottom out, he can hit you easily. It has no CD time for its DPS cycle actually. It just continuously teleports/gap closes at you while throwing out inordinately high damage output with everything it does.

For anyone who is not playing ATs against the better players in their server, I can say that WB probably feels somewhat average in your unranked/ranked games when you encounter it, but against the better players in your server who actually understand how to run WB correctly, they will show you why this class is busted. There are no drawbacks or balanced aspects about this new specialization. If you enter an AT and go against actual good teams who build a comp around 2x good WBers who are playing with a good Support, Willbender goes past S+ tier and turns into an actual God tier class.

I'll say it again, it needs to lose some of that mobility.

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8 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I don't hate when a guard spec is meta, since guard is ALWAYS meta. To answer your question, one of the reasons why I don't have a problem with untamed is because it's strong but it requires a brain to play. Not the case with current guardian, which is the reason why I just came out of a match with 4 willbenders and 1 support guardian.
Half of what I see in every match is kittening blue, and it's annoying because it's also unjustifiably effective for how easy it is.

Willbender is currently ape tier and easier to play than mechanist, and this says all.

A spec with that kitten damage and mobility shouldn't be able to 1vs1 better than many duelist and have that much kittening sustain.

 

It was fun the first days after the changes, now it's boring as kitten, winninh 1vs1s you don't deserve just because how ape and broken it is, surviving +1s better than thief or sidenoders.

 

It's stupid and needs to be gutted to the ground.

 

So stop crying guardian mains, you can't have 3 kittening viable meta builds always.

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19 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

So stop crying guardian mains, you can't have 3 kittening viable meta builds always.

Meta MVP Commander God in WvW Firebrand

Meta MVP in PvE Firebrand, various versions of it. You can actually stack a team of 4x FBs + 1x Alacrity = powerful as hell. In fact it's so powerful due to the sheer amount of aegis spam, the FBs can be running bad builds by players who don't even know mechanics, but they will be able to complete T4s or even CMs due to the sheer amount of aegis spam alone, and that's not even beginning to discuss the amount of heal and other boons being thrown around by stacking Firebrands.

Meta MVP Support in PvP Core Guardian

Above Meta MVP Team Fighting +1ing Mobility Damage God Willbender

 

You can literally form a team comp in any game mode right now completely comprised of only Guardian based classes and not only will you be effective, but you will be meta or above it.

What is a worse WvW zerg to encounter than like 20x stacked Firebrands with 100% uptime of aegis & stability?

What is a stronger PvE comp than 4x FBs + an alac?

Explain to me what PvP comp could realistically deal with 2x Support Guard & 3x Willbenders? If a comp is stronger than this, it wouldn't be by much and it would only be due to natural small counter effects. <- This team comp would actually be completely immune to condition damage. There would be so much anti projectile bubbling along with other anti projectile effects, may as well not worry about using ranged against it unless it's all channel based. The stability uptime would be nearly permanent. It would also have this perpetual cycling of blocking and invuln effects, along with massive damage mitigation in general due to perma protection and ever-cycling ever-present healing. How do you even deal with this?

The point being is that no other class in the game can just stack itself and only itself to create super successful team compositions in every game mode.

 

Make of it what you want.

Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
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6 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

shows how bad you are, with this much light aura and resolution and low cooldown condi cleanses, i don't know how you die to condi unless you don't know how to press dodge and eat every single condi.

and how can it's damage be easily avoidable unless you just spam your keys mindlessly, it is literally 2x easier to land compared to herald.

This is not hello kitty I am playing pvp for the first tine. And You are misunderstanding the issue. Sure WB has enough condi cleanse in the current meta, since condi damage is not prevelant. If we start to see a rise in some of the weaker condi builds, particularly mirage, scourge and condi dps FB, WB will struggle. There is good out front strong cleanse, but without valor, it will run it in any slightly long lasting battle. It is very easy to push WB to use RI quickly with good condi application, especially since WB big damage skills have 0.75 cast time and require you to be in melee.

 

As for 2x easier than herald, WB has no CC, no range and its biggest 2 hits are GS5 and off hand sword 4. Off hand sword can miss against PvE mobs in point blank, forget moving targets in PvP. 
 

Will wait to see how things will pan out by the time for the next balance patch. However, unless WB gets a major redesign or buffs, by the end of this year it will be dead in PvP. Mark my words.

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6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

simply better than Power Herald in every way with no drawbacks, is just messed up.

Less CC. No unblockable. No Quickness. No boon removal. CC is a big deal. "no drawbacks". I'm not saying you're wrong in your overall assessment, but this hyperbole isn't doing your case any favours.

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
  1. Willbender on the other hand doesn't need to worry about any of that because it has massive front loaded defenses to straight tank damage when popping into a team fight with a surprise teleport.

And those defenses are? There's F3 and...... ? You said "defenses" with an S on the end, so, multiple, what are the other ones? Are you referring to RF? Then why does Daggerstorm not count? It basically achieves the same thing, a 3s window in which you can't be touched.

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Simply put, Willbender has all the perks of a Thief's speed & mobility with none of the drawbacks

Lack of stealth doesn't count as a drawback? Are we really going to say that stealth offers absolutely nothing? If stealth were 100% removed from thief, it wouldn't reduce its capability in any way? Really? I'm not saying you're wrong in your overall assessment, but this hyperbole isn't doing your case any favours. Also, less CC, no boon-rip. You aren't going to ask a WB to interrupt a signet/glyph, are you?

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

all of the perks of a Power Reaper's AoE cleaving and very high damage output, with none of the drawbacks.

50% less HP and not having 50% damage reduction, isn't a drawback? Okay...... Again, I'm not saying you're wrong in your overall assessment, but this hyperbole isn't doing your case any favours. And again, less CC, no boon removal, ability to pressure from range, etc etc.

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's not that its strikes are super difficult to avoid, it's that the mobility it possesses allows it to stay on top of your head like 90% of the time engaging it, so it makes you burn through all of your defenses really fast if you don't want to die, and then when you bottom out, he can hit you easily. It has no CD time for its DPS cycle actually. It just continuously teleports/gap closes at you while throwing out inordinately high damage output with everything it does.

This is true, but, it misses out the key piece. You don't beat a Willbender by trying to run away from it. The only time you need to kite it is immediately after F3 usage. Otherwise, just turn around and smack it in the face. You'll win that trade if you're any kind of bruiser/duelist and not a glass cannon. It's like saying, back in Vanilla, that you can't escape from Thief. Well, no, but thats not necessarily a problem if you can just turn around and smack it until it has to run away. Yes if you keep trying to run with the goal of eventually shaking it off and getting out of combat, you'll fail, the WB will run you down. This is the mistake people keep making. Unless F3 has just been activated, you're far better off standing your ground and trading. Things like Mech, Bladesworn, Catalyst, Harbinger, and even Holo, SoulB, Weaver, will absolutely win that trade. Hell, with Vindicator, just take your hands off the keyboard and ignore it.

To re-iterate, my purpose in this thread is not to suggest that WB is actually fine or even underpowered. Repeat, I am NOT suggesting that. It is simply to make sure any discussion of how to adjust it is done on the basis of objective reality and not hyperbolic emotion.

Edited by Ragnar.4257
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OP, do you play the willbender? Are you playing it? I've seen that you play ranger, but do you play willbender? Why not just play it? If it is strong, be strong and play it. You are still you, play the build you think is strong. Please, stop asking for nerfs, and go formulate some reasonable buff requests to your favorite instead.

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8 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   To be honest I find this spec akward and clunky to play. With a bit of lag (~90 ping) feels unforgiving and you die in a blink. When works is powerful, tho. But that's due the buffs, not due WB wasn't a total garbage at the release...

This is not the case if you run marauder and divinity which is the meta for the build. Besides, if you play herald you die this way if your not on your toes, willbender is much more forgiving. When I doubt pop F3 which is a life saver, plus it has ridiculously low cd

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16 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

I KNOW you play necro, and it is just as abundant. Let's just go back to our corner, and not get more nerfs.


I play a variety of professions, but what's funny is that a necro has almost always had to be paired with a guardian to become meta...not vice versa...thus, the last thing a necro wants is less guardians.  It's about being intellectually honest.  I just came out of several pvp games where there were at least 4 guardians of different spec.

If you think guardians are not seeing much more increased play than other professions (especially willbender) and/or there's no reason for it...I'm not sure an intellectually honest discussion is possible with you.

BTW, there were far more underplayed specs and professions that warranted buffs...yet they chose guardian.  You can see tons of extinct specs like core engie, core ele, scourge, etc.  They even SAID they were buffing Reaper last patch, but you don't see it a FRACTION of what you see with Willbender.  It's NOT just coincidence or EoD newness.  It's throwing one entire profession into a realm of viability amongst specs that no other profession enjoys, and guardian is the LAST profession that needed to be FIRST in being viable across everything and be able to spec to do anything.

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2 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:
8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's not that its strikes are super difficult to avoid, it's that the mobility it possesses allows it to stay on top of your head like 90% of the time engaging it, so it makes you burn through all of your defenses really fast if you don't want to die, and then when you bottom out, he can hit you easily. It has no CD time for its DPS cycle actually. It just continuously teleports/gap closes at you while throwing out inordinately high damage output with everything it does.

This is true, but, it misses out the key piece. You don't beat a Willbender by trying to run away from it.

And this takes us back to my original statement where I said:

"What it's doing is it's currently threatening to remove the purpose of "kiting" in pvp. "

When it gets on you, it forces you stop stand and fight. It removes a lot of the dynamic behind choices to stay or peel or rotate to team mates, ect ect. In my opinion this kind of dynamic that forces engagement like this is actually dumbing down the mental strategy of the Conquest game mode. Hey if people are ok with this kind of dynamic, if they like it, that's great. The purpose of this thread was simply to point out what I see happening and how I felt about it.

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9 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

So stop crying guardian mains, you can't have 3 kittening viable meta builds always.

I'm really on board with the viscerally candid thought here, but it's- like, really funny to see people keep having to deal with the same annoying mechanics over and over, only for them to have wildly different opinions on them based on which class is doing the mechanic-ing

So I mean, please by all means make guardian warrithief. 

(also buff Firebrand, it doesn't deserve that wdf)

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Meta MVP Commander God in WvW Firebrand

people can complain all they want about firebrand in wvw, but literally everyone will hate playing the game without the stability. 

 

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Meta MVP in PvE Firebrand, various versions of it. You can actually stack a team of 4x FBs + 1x Alacrity = powerful as hell. In fact it's so powerful due to the sheer amount of aegis spam, the FBs can be running bad builds by players who don't even know mechanics, but they will be able to complete T4s or even CMs due to the sheer amount of aegis spam alone, and that's not even beginning to discuss the amount of heal and other boons being thrown around by stacking Firebrands.

You'll be able to complete t4s and cms by stacking scourges,  scrappers, mechs, revs and just about any other class. Aegis spam honestly isn't that bad since they nerfed heal Mantra. But yes, Firebrand is strong in pve.

 

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Meta MVP Support in PvP Core Guardian

 

 

And during HoT we had tempest, same during Mota and after that we had spellbreaker. You honestly can't complain about Support Guard. 

 

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Above Meta MVP Team Fighting +1ing Mobility Damage God Willbender

I haven't been active in pvp since the buffs, and while I guess it is overperforming (looking at the eu mAT) I really don't see it as a big of an issue as youre making it out to be. 1/4 top eu teams ran it and they built the comp around it. Having harb quickness and might it up is letting it unleash.

 

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You can literally form a team comp in any game right now completely comprised of only Guardian based classes and not only will you be effective, but you will be meta or above it.

Lmao, okay. Go play your 4 willbender 1 Support Guard comp and let me know how that works out for you. 

 

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

What is a worse WvW zerg to encounter than like 20x stacked Firebrands with 100% uptime of aegis & stability?

 

a balanced wvw comp with scrappers, Firebrands, revs, scourges, dhs, weavers and chronos.

 

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

What is a stronger PvE comp than 4x FBs + an alac?

1 Firebrand, 1 alac source and 3 dedicated dps classes.

 

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Explain to me what PvP comp could realistically deal with 2x Support Guard & 3x Willbenders? If a comp is stronger than this, it wouldn't be by much and it would only be due to natural small counter effects. <- This team comp would actually be completely immune to condition damage. There would be so much anti projectile bubbling along with other anti projectile effects, may as well not worry about using ranged against it unless it's all channel based. The stability uptime would be nearly permanent. It would also have this perpetual cycling of blocking and invuln effects, along with massive damage mitigation in general due to perma protection and ever-cycling ever-present healing. How do you even deal with this?

The point being is that no other class in the game can just stack itself and only itself to create super successful team compositions in every game mode.

 

 

I'm just going to touch on the last part as I'm not head deep into pvp right now. You can't stack just Guard and be super successful in any mode. That's a lie. 

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@Math.5123 No

  1. 38 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

    people can complain all they want about firebrand in wvw, but literally everyone will hate playing the game without the stability. 

    This hardly has anything to do with the point of the statement, which was exampling how a 20 man zerg is highly highly function when only comprised of Firebrands. If you were to try and stack a 20 man zerg with another class and only that class, it would not be nearly as functional as the 20x Firebrand zerg. The Firebrands very seriously grant each other every important defensive tool with perma uptime, including damage buffs, good DPS output, and a lot of CC.

  2. 38 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

    You'll be able to complete t4s and cms by stacking scourges,  scrappers, mechs, revs and just about any other class. Aegis spam honestly isn't that bad since they nerfed heal Mantra. But yes, Firebrand is strong in pve.

    Yes but the difference is that you actually have to know mechanics and be a decent player to stack other classes for T4s/CMs. You can very seriously stack 4x random Firebrand builds + 1x alac, with new players who don't even know mechanics, and go in and complete T4s/CMs with subpar players. The Firebrands can all be running DPS builds and still be pumping out massive damage mitigation and heals between the four of them.

  3. 38 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

    And during HoT we had tempest, same during Mota and after that we had spellbreaker. You honestly can't complain about Support Guard. 

    Yes but the difference is that Tempest was only a Support. Ele at the time was not MVPing every game mode. It had one thing it was good at, Support. Guardian on the other hand, has MVP meta builds in every game mode that perform every role and players can successfully for team comps of nothing but Guardian based classes and be highly successful while doing so.

  4. 38 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

    Lmao, okay. Go play your 4 willbender 1 Support Guard comp and let me know how that works out for you.

    I said 3x Willbenders and 2x Support Guards btw. Also, I don't need to do this because I see people doing comps similar to this in almost every AT I run lately. This is a thing that is happening already, Guard Support & Willbender DPS stacks.

  5. 38 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:
    Quote

    What is a stronger PvE comp than 4x FBs + an alac?

    1 Firebrand, 1 alac source and 3 dedicated dps classes.

    Yes but you're not noticing that the 3 dedicated DPS classes can also be Condition Firebrands, which are one of the highest benchmarks in PvE. It can be 1x Healbrand who brings the heals & Quickness + the Alac + the 3x other Firebrands who are stated for condition DPS, which benches at 40k. It actually benches higher than Power DH and equals or surpasses Power Willbender or Condi Willbender. There are only like 3 builds in the game that can bench higher than a Condition Firebrand, where they hit around 41k. This is what I'm talking about here. Guardian does it all. Guardian is MVP at everything right now, all roles, in all game modes. The only important things it doesn't do, is bring Alac in PvE and stealth for PvP. But it is MvP at all job roles in every game mode right now. It can DPS, It can Command, It can roam, it can small skirmish, it can team fight, it can support, it can + harder than anything right now, it can 1v1, and it can side node. You can't defend this man. It's literally written all over the internet a the top of lists of all meta sites.

  6. 38 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

    You can't stack just Guard and be super successful in any mode. That's a lie.

    You must either not be playing much lately, or you are seriously not paying attention to what people are running in the team compositions around you.

But let's veer this discussion back where it was intended. I don't really care about Guardian in other game modes, at least not for the discussion of this thread. What I am concerned with in this thread, is the level of mobility creep being thrown into the game's pvp dynamic with Willbender.

Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
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41 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Math.5123 No

  1. This hardly has anything to do with the point of the statement, which was exampling how a 20 man zerg is highly highly function when only comprised of Firebrands. If you were to try and stack a 20 man zerg with another class and only that class, it would not be nearly as functional as the 20x Firebrand zerg. The Firebrands very seriously grant each other every important defensive tool with perma uptime, including damage buffs, good DPS output, and a lot of CC.

  2. Yes but the difference is that you actually have to know mechanics and be a decent player to stack other classes for T4s/CMs. You can very seriously stack 4x random Firebrand builds + 1x alac, with new players who don't even know mechanics, and go in and complete T4s/CMs with subpar players. The Firebrands can all be running DPS builds and still be pumping out massive damage mitigation and heals between the four of them.

  3. Yes but the difference is that Tempest was only a Support. Ele at the time was not MVPing every game mode. It had one thing it was good at, Support. Guardian on the other hand, has MVP meta builds in every game mode that perform every role and players can successfully for team comps of nothing but Guardian based classes and be highly successful while doing so.

  4. I said 3x Willbenders and 2x Support Guards btw. Also, I don't need to do this because I see people doing comps similar to this in almost every AT I run lately. This is a thing that is happening already, Guard Support & Willbender DPS stacks.

  5. Yes but you're not noticing that the 3 dedicated DPS classes can also be Condition Firebrands, which are one of the highest benchmarks in PvE. It can be 1x Healbrand who brings the heals & Quickness + the Alac + the 3x other Firebrands who are stated for condition DPS, which benches at 40k. It actually benches higher than Power DH and equals or surpasses Power Willbender or Condi Willbender. There are only like 3 builds in the game that can bench higher than a Condition Firebrand, where they hit around 41k. This is what I'm talking about here. Guardian does it all. Guardian is MVP at everything right now, all roles, in all game modes. The only important things it doesn't do, is bring Alac in PvE and stealth for PvP. But it is MvP at all job roles in every game mode right now. It can DPS, It can Command, It can roam, it can small skirmish, it can team fight, it can support, it can + harder than anything right now, it can 1v1, and it can side node. You can't defend this man. It's literally written all over the internet a the top of lists of all meta sites.

  6. You must either not be playing much lately, or you are seriously not paying attention to what people are running in the team compositions around you.

But let's veer this discussion back where it was intended. I don't really care about Guardian in other game modes, at least not for the discussion of this thread. What I am concerned with in this thread, is the level of mobility creep being thrown into the game's pvp dynamic with Willbender.

Play your 20 man fb zerg and get back to me about how that works out for you buddy. I'm not trying to discredit your valid points. But grasping at how condi fb is strong in pve in a thread about how strong willbender is in pvp. 

I get that you don't like that guardian finally has a meta worthy roaming build after all these years. And that's valid. It's not for everyone. 

 

But try to keep your arguments constructive. 

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16 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

Play your 20 man fb zerg and get back to me about how that works out for you buddy. I'm not trying to discredit your valid points. But grasping at how condi fb is strong in pve in a thread about how strong willbender is in pvp. 

I get that you don't like that guardian finally has a meta worthy roaming build after all these years. And that's valid. It's not for everyone. 

 

But try to keep your arguments constructive. 

  1. Most zergs are already mostly comprised of FBs for a reason. It has been this way ever since PoF release. Don't act like you haven't seen it every single time you go into WvW. We've all seen it, you've seen it too.
  2. The thread is about Willbender yes, but the comment about Condi Firebrand was in response to your statement that the best fractal comp was 1x Firebrand 1x Alac 3x dedicated DPS, when you did not realize that Condi Firebrand was a top benchmark dedicated DPS when stated for it. Thus supporting the origin statement of this sub-discussion about Guardian having too much MVP meta status amongst all 3 game modes, the idea that you can actually stack nothing but Guardian based classes in a team comp for any game mode, and be highly effective if not meta.
  3. I never said anything about being upset about Willbender providing a roam worthy build for WvW, because I wasn't discussing WvW, I was discussing Willbender in SPvP Conquest, where it is breaking the dynamic & purpose of the game mode. But now that you bring it up, I will say the same exact thing about it in WvW, it needs to lose some of that mobility.

Thanks for the input, Math.

I'll try to keep my feedback well written, well explained, and constructive next time.

Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
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