Red Lady and Mysterious Skeletons

[draxynnic.3719]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:Skeletons of Dhuum was my first thought as well.

Unfortunately, any 'cleaning up the god realms' content is 90% likely to be confined to raids, so if you're not a raider, temper your expectations.

usually they dont put things related to Raids to affect core Tyria.

Perhaps, its seems new

side histories

, it can hint the direction new lore goes for.

http://dulfy.net/2017/08/08/gw2-side-stories-achievements-guide/

The bandit leader events were pretty much only related to raids when they appeared. They ended up related to LS3 as well, mind you, but that was because the raids were closely related to LS3 (with the original three wings being a prologue) rather than being a 'side story' per se.

So the comment about raid stuff not affecting core Tyria is inconclusive at best.

A Dhuum breakout, though, would be a prime candidate for a raid. It's something that's easily decoupled from Tyria itself, with the main event happening in the Underworld. It would be a followup to what was essentially the GW1 equivalent of a raid in GW1. It would be very easy to make a Dhuum instance into a series of boss fights in the style of raids. And it's not (necessarily) directly related to the current main story involving Kralkatorrik, Aurene, Joko and Dragon's Watch - certainly less so than the first raid wings were to the LS3 story.

It's perfect raid material, and thus, I'd be quite surprised if it wasn't. Perhaps pleasantly surprised, depending on what it is they decide to make the raids instead, but surprised nonetheless.

The bandit champions weren't the only Side Stories stuff - ley lines were also present, and only related to S3. Furthermore, the first bandit Side Story stuff came out post-raid, rather than a prelude to the raids. I'm pretty sure even the third wing was already out by the time the first bandit champions and posters were.

I would also that depending on how it's done, Dhuum can very much be directly related to Path of Fire, given that PoF established that both the Realm of Torment and the Underworld have become weakened and chaotic in the gods' absences, and became even worse with soul-eating demons (which is exactly what Dhuum's minions were) when Balthazar had came and left, and that Palawa Joko was imprisoned and thus escape from the Underworld - his escape could easily lead to others escaping.

Furthermore, detracting from returning to the Elder Dragons in full force would keep the game from continuing back down the repetitious and boring path of "every expansion deals with a new Elder Dragon" that was the primary purpose for Path of Fire not dealing with the Elder Dragons. And with them having brought the gods back into the plot, it seems highly silly to completely end the gods' plots with PoF.

I do think we'll be getting a god-related raid soon, but I'd bet it'll be tied to Mingus, I mean Menzies more than Dhuum.

But I suppose I'm just hopeful that my favorite GW1 villain of all time and most looked forward continued plot from GW1 will be getting a bigger spotlight than a mere raid. Hopefully it won't be getting the treatment that my fourth favorite GW1 villain got (Lazarus).

The first bandit champions showed up between Wing 2 and Wing 3.

Given the precedent of the first three being basically the prologue to Season 3, I really don't think the possibility that Dhuum might be related to Season 4 is any protection against Dhuum being a raid. They've shown that they're willing to make raids out of things that are intrinsically tied to the main storyline - and heck, even Saul had the potential to be much more important if he hadn't simply had his age catch up to him and died. With PoF's ending already having multiple things on the PC's to-do list, I could definitely see going into the Underworld to put Dhuum back in his box being a raid-level side story rather than part of the main plot. It's too big to be a 'Side Stories' achievement, and my expectation is that Season 4 will mostly focus on going deeper into Elona, at least to begin with.

[maddoctor.2738]

We know that the dead bodies were people (Necromancers) who answered the call of the Red Lady and they were killed by an Ax (Aatxe?) or a Sword. So it's unlikely to me that the Red Lady is an ally to the Underworld creatures.What if the Red Lady is indeed Livia and she is gathering new allies, Necromancers from the text, to use them to stop the invasion of Underworld creatures (and even Dhuum) on Tyria?

[Michram.6853]

@TealDeer.4217 said:

@Arden.7480 said:Who is capable to speak to somebody in dreams? If the victims would be Sylvari the answer would be: Pale Tree or Mordremoth, but the victims are humans so somebody has to have powers to connect with people's minds.

Does Dhuum have the powers to connect with people's minds?

Actually, yes, he does:

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Invasion_From_Within

In Nightfallen Jahai, the Forgotten Rukkassa's mind is invaded by Dhuum's forces, causing him to fight against his allies.

edit

Regarding the Modus Scleris event that happens near that statue of Grenth in Lornar's Pass, what triggers it? I thought I was crazy remembering an event there, but perhaps not. I wonder if said event has changed at all with this update?

As I hoped. Because I tried to find a god that is somehow related to minds--- similar to Mordremoth and nobody didn't fit it, eventually Lyssa--

"She touched each man on his head, one at a time, as they laughed and jibed her until, one at a time, they fell into a deep slumber.

Each man dreamed a different dream, but each dream was a vision of the life they would lead once the war was over—wives, children, riches, open air, health, and peace."~from legend.

So she also has some powers related to minds, dream. Interesting, could Lyssa be "The Red Lady"?

Also there is a note that Lyssa is called "The Lady of the mirror", so perhaps "Lady" isn't an accident?

[Athrenn.9468]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:But I suppose I'm just hopeful that my favorite GW1 villain of all time and most looked forward continued plot from GW1 will be getting a bigger spotlight than a mere raid. Hopefully it won't be getting the treatment that my fourth favorite GW1 villain got (Lazarus).

Good lord, that's my biggest worry as well. The real Lazarus got 15 minutes of screen time and a few lines of dialogue before getting the magic sword finisher. So much wasted potential in my opinion.

I think that pacing, story structure, and villain characterization are the weakest parts of recent Living World storytelling. They only gave themselves six episodes to work with and didn't spend enough time building up Balthazar as the main threat of the next expansion. The big identity reveal came 5 episodes into the 6 episode arc along with an anticlimactic fix to the threat of Jormag and Primordus which was established early on in the season. It's the same problem that you get trying to cram a novel's worth of plot into a novelette: you're not going to be able to do a complex, multifaceted plot justice so instead it all feels rushed. What the writers need to do is go in depth on a limited range of characters, locations, and plot elements according to how much screen time they've been given.

In the case of Balthazar's alter ego (Lazarus), the identity reveal counts as two characters in your expository 'budget' because you're spending time building up the threat of Lazarus and the White Mantle that you're not spending on your real villain. Actually, if you want to get really technical they were trying to build up the threat of five big bads at the same time: Lazarus, Caudecus, Primordus, Jormag, and Balthazar. It's no wonder that none of the resolutions felt very satisfying in the end, or at least not to me. There's too much complexity and not enough time to do the story justice.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:But I suppose I'm just hopeful that my favorite GW1 villain of all time and most looked forward continued plot from GW1 will be getting a bigger spotlight than a mere raid. Hopefully it won't be getting the treatment that my fourth favorite GW1 villain got (Lazarus).

In a Raid, Dhuum will appear awesome and super powerful. Instead if it's in a story he will be like Lazarus or Balthazar, in my opinion both those fights pale in comparison with the Raid fights and I much rather fight Dhuum as a boss like Xera than a boss like Lazarus or Balthazar. Xera feels epic and powerful, while the other two are weaklings, especially Lazarus, at least Balthazar had some unique fight mechanics.

[Valmir.4590]

I'm divided here. On one hand, I really don't like raids, I feel it detracts much needed ressources from the main game. But on the other hand, from what I get, fights and stories are formidable there and a plot such as the Underworld being in absolute chaos would deserve as much awesomeness as possible. But the first raids (especially the one with Saul) really rubbed me the wrong way, because of the time I have to play GW2 don't allow me to go farming components for Ascended gear and then raiding, so missing all those awesome stories making me angry...

[Renkku.7451]

I stood next to a skeleton near Shadow Behemoth when it died and I got this glittering effect on me. Thoughts? http://renkungw2.tumblr.com/post/167377468340/renkungw2-ok-guys-i-might-have-found-something

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:The Mysterious Skeletons drop Halloween creature drops, but that may be just an oversight from making them out of the Blood Prince's skeletons.

They seem to be skeletons covered in shadow.

They appear only during the night cycle, same as the Behemoth and the Lady in White.

The effect that gives a Nourishment when /kneeling in front of the statue spells things in New Krytan. I tried reading them, but they flash too fast, and the words are random and different every time you /kneel. I only got time to read one from screenshots: "BOGGNOSCE".

On 4 different occasions I got:

OBGLOEEAPCIPROGBGCOIOBG

Not accounting for the Gs are upsidedown Cs and the P being more of a rounded arrow down.Some of it seems familiar to me, I might have translated this before. Or it's on items with similar text.

[Fenom.9457]

@Athrenn.9468 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:But I suppose I'm just hopeful that my favorite GW1 villain of all time and most looked forward continued plot from GW1 will be getting a bigger spotlight than a mere raid. Hopefully it won't be getting the treatment that my fourth favorite GW1 villain got (Lazarus).

Good lord, that's my biggest worry as well. The real Lazarus got 15 minutes of screen time and a few lines of dialogue before getting the magic sword finisher. So much wasted potential in my opinion.

I think that pacing, story structure, and villain characterization are the weakest parts of recent Living World storytelling. They only gave themselves six episodes to work with and didn't spend enough time building up Balthazar as the main threat of the next expansion. The big identity reveal came 5 episodes into the 6 episode arc along with an anticlimactic fix to the threat of Jormag and Primordus which was established early on in the season. It's the same problem that you get trying to cram a novel's worth of plot into a novelette: you're not going to be able to do a complex, multifaceted plot justice so instead it all feels rushed. What the writers need to do is go in depth on a limited range of characters, locations, and plot elements according to how much screen time they've been given.

In the case of Balthazar's alter ego (Lazarus), the identity reveal counts as two characters in your expository 'budget' because you're spending time building up the threat of Lazarus and the White Mantle that you're not spending on your real villain. Actually, if you want to get really technical they were trying to build up the threat of five big bads at the same time: Lazarus, Caudecus, Primordus, Jormag, and Balthazar. It's no wonder that none of the resolutions felt very satisfying in the end, or at least not to me. There's too much complexity and not enough time to do the story justice.

With expansions taking a minimum of 18 months (PoF), we'll more likely get nine episodes this time. We only got six before because anet didn't have a plan and there was a drought between HoT and bloodstone fen. This time we'll be getting regular releases immediately.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@maddoctor.2738 said:We know that the dead bodies were people (Necromancers) who answered the call of the Red Lady and they were killed by an Ax (Aatxe?) or a Sword. So it's unlikely to me that the Red Lady is an ally to the Underworld creatures.What if the Red Lady is indeed Livia and she is gathering new allies, Necromancers from the text, to use them to stop the invasion of Underworld creatures (and even Dhuum) on Tyria?

Priests, rather than necromancers. But you seem to be ignoring the possibility that the 'red lady' was luring in the priests to be killed as they were answering a call or dream of some sort.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:But I suppose I'm just hopeful that my favorite GW1 villain of all time and most looked forward continued plot from GW1 will be getting a bigger spotlight than a mere raid. Hopefully it won't be getting the treatment that my fourth favorite GW1 villain got (Lazarus).

In a Raid, Dhuum will appear awesome and super powerful. Instead if it's in a story he will be like Lazarus or Balthazar, in my opinion both those fights pale in comparison with the Raid fights and I much rather fight Dhuum as a boss like Xera than a boss like Lazarus or Balthazar. Xera feels epic and powerful, while the other two are weaklings, especially Lazarus, at least Balthazar had some unique fight mechanics.

I feel the combat and exposure to Balthaddon was done fine, but that his motivation / offscreen character development was poorly handled.

I don't think a raid would improve either case of combat or story anymore than being part of the main plot - if anything it ensures a "once then done" establishment of the villain just like Zhaitan and Mordremoth which I would rather not have.

Balthaddon had, imo, definitely appeared powerful (he visually set the world on fire for that final battle) though he could have had better attacks that were less repetitious in the beginning of the fight. I feel that a simple challenge mote would be all that is needed to placate the "casual" as well as the "hardcore" (I use quotation marks because being unable to defeat an unhealing Caudecus or Balthazar or defeat the Eater of Souls is not a result of being casual but

and learning the mechanics of the fight).

Well I could rant about the lack of challenging single player content that is easily fixed while not restricting the "casuals" of their own gameplay.

-yawn-

@Renkku.7451 said:I stood next to a skeleton near Shadow Behemoth when it died and I got this glittering effect on me. Thoughts? http://renkungw2.tumblr.com/post/167377468340/renkungw2-ok-guys-i-might-have-found-something

Sure that wasn't the level up effect glitching out? Kind of looks like that to me.

[Renkku.7451]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Renkku.7451 said:I stood next to a skeleton near Shadow Behemoth when it died and I got this glittering effect on me. Thoughts?

http://renkungw2.tumblr.com/post/167377468340/renkungw2-ok-guys-i-might-have-found-something

Sure that wasn't the level up effect glitching out? Kind of looks like that to me.It's not the level up effect but someone pointed out to me that it could be a loot effect glitching. I've had the autoloot on for years now. I'll add the full screenshot to show my xp bar.

http://i65.tinypic.com/hs9oif.jpg

[Fenom.9457]

Sure that wasn't the level up effect glitching out? Kind of looks like that to me.

THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK! Conspiracyyyyyy confiiiiiiiirmed

[maddoctor.2738]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Priests, rather than necromancers. But you seem to be ignoring the possibility that the 'red lady' was luring in the priests to be killed as they were answering a call or dream of some sort.

That's true a possibility I didn't think about.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:I don't think a raid would improve either case of combat or story anymore than being part of the main plot - if anything it ensures a "once then done" establishment of the villain just like Zhaitan and Mordremoth which I would rather not have.

You are right about the story, I was talking more about the gameplay part. In Guild Wars 1 we fought Dhuum in a party of 8 together with the 7 reapers of Grenth, that's 15 people fighting him. If a single person with a magic sword goes and kills him, like what happened with both Lazarus and Balthazar (ok we had Livia/Aurene with us) I'd be really upset. At least with Mordremoth we fought his mind and it made some sense, while we fought the Mouth of Mordremoth with a bazillion other people in Dragon's Stand. I just find it really sad for a single person to be able to defeat gods and elder dragons, they are super powerful yet they die by the commander. Solo.

[Fenom.9457]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Priests, rather than necromancers. But you seem to be ignoring the possibility that the 'red lady' was luring in the priests to be killed as they were answering a call or dream of some sort.

That's true a possibility I didn't think about.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:I don't think a raid would improve either case of combat or story anymore than being part of the main plot - if anything it ensures a "once then done" establishment of the villain just like Zhaitan and Mordremoth which I would rather not have.

You are right about the story, I was talking more about the gameplay part. In Guild Wars 1 we fought Dhuum in a party of 8 together with the 7 reapers of Grenth, that's 15 people fighting him. If a single person with a magic sword goes and kills him, like what happened with both Lazarus and Balthazar (ok we had Livia/Aurene with us) I'd be really upset. At least with Mordremoth we fought his mind and it made some sense, while we fought the Mouth of Mordremoth with a bazillion other people in Dragon's Stand. I just find it really sad for a single person to be able to defeat gods and elder dragons, they are super powerful yet they die by the commander. Solo.

Maybe we can recruit the top champions and avatars left behind in the god's realms. We know by seeing the judge that the gods didn't take them

[Sorann Peace.9056]

@Renkku.7451 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Renkku.7451 said:I stood next to a skeleton near Shadow Behemoth when it died and I got this glittering effect on me. Thoughts?

http://renkungw2.tumblr.com/post/167377468340/renkungw2-ok-guys-i-might-have-found-something

Sure that wasn't the level up effect glitching out? Kind of looks like that to me.It's not the level up effect but someone pointed out to me that it could be a loot effect glitching. I've had the autoloot on for years now. I'll add the full screenshot to show my xp bar.

http://i65.tinypic.com/hs9oif.jpg

Perhaps when they die, the game suddenly decides that they're hostile for a split second and tries to have you auto-loot their corpses, but something about the design prevents that from happening, causing the loot effect animation to get stuck? Basically, a bug in regards to how the player character interacts with the skeletons at the moment of death. If it is a bug like that, then the effect means virtually nothing. Otherwise, the only other thing I could think of is that it's supposed to be the skeletons leaving some kind of magic residue behind on your character. Though... leaving behind magic residue wouldn't indicate much, so it's more likely just a bug.

[Tamias.7059]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:We know that the dead bodies were people (Necromancers) who answered the call of the Red Lady and they were killed by an Ax (Aatxe?) or a Sword. So it's unlikely to me that the Red Lady is an ally to the Underworld creatures.What if the Red Lady is indeed Livia and she is gathering new allies, Necromancers from the text, to use them to stop the invasion of Underworld creatures (and even Dhuum) on Tyria?

Priests, rather than necromancers. But you seem to be ignoring the possibility that the 'red lady' was luring in the priests to be killed as they were answering a call or dream of some sort.

Both are priests, but the one in Godslost Swamp, at least, is a necromancer as well. We learn this from talking to the norn necromancer after interacting with his corpse. Priests of Grenth, at a guess.

[Renkku.7451]

@Sorann Peace.9056 said:

@Renkku.7451 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Renkku.7451 said:I stood next to a skeleton near Shadow Behemoth when it died and I got this glittering effect on me. Thoughts?

http://renkungw2.tumblr.com/post/167377468340/renkungw2-ok-guys-i-might-have-found-something

Sure that wasn't the level up effect glitching out? Kind of looks like that to me.It's not the level up effect but someone pointed out to me that it could be a loot effect glitching. I've had the autoloot on for years now. I'll add the full screenshot to show my xp bar.

http://i65.tinypic.com/hs9oif.jpg

Perhaps when they die, the game suddenly decides that they're hostile for a split second and tries to have you auto-loot their corpses, but something about the design prevents that from happening, causing the loot effect animation to get stuck? Basically, a bug in regards to how the player character interacts with the skeletons at the moment of death. If it is a bug like that, then the effect means virtually nothing. Otherwise, the only other thing I could think of is that it's supposed to be the skeletons leaving some kind of magic residue behind on your character. Though... leaving behind magic residue wouldn't indicate much, so it's more likely just a bug.

I tried this today again and could not reproduce the effect. Probably a bug then :/

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@Renkku.7451 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Renkku.7451 said:I stood next to a skeleton near Shadow Behemoth when it died and I got this glittering effect on me. Thoughts?

http://renkungw2.tumblr.com/post/167377468340/renkungw2-ok-guys-i-might-have-found-something

Sure that wasn't the level up effect glitching out? Kind of looks like that to me.It's not the level up effect but someone pointed out to me that it could be a loot effect glitching. I've had the autoloot on for years now. I'll add the full screenshot to show my xp bar.

http://i65.tinypic.com/hs9oif.jpg

That is indeed a bug related to autoloot that happens sometimes. Autoloot makes that glow appear on you when you autoloot and when you gather nodes, and it sometimes gets stuck.

[Preyar.6783]

Did people see that the focus called Adam got its icon updated with the November 7th patch? This item is also the skull that the GW1 Necromancer, Eve, held and talked to....I wonder.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Preyar.6783 said:Did people see that the focus called Adam got its icon updated with the November 7th patch? This item is also the skull that the GW1 Necromancer, Eve, held and talked to....I wonder.

I did see it, but given that the former icon was shared with a trash item, it was in long need of being updated. So I'm not convinced to claim it's related just yet.

It may be that they made a new icon for future content and saw it fit Adam better and having these two items shared would be better than sharing an exotic weapon icon with a vendor trash icon. Hard to say though.

EDIT: And I just remembered a very old trivia fun fact about Eve. It was originally planned for Prophecies to reveal that Eve had a very special ancestry (what that was, was never revealed). This plot got scrapped at some point during development, but given they brought back Devona in PoF we may see this return as well.

[Zalani.9827]

Considering what happens in a certain PoF instance and G-man going bye bye... I believe that we are dealing with the fallout of an unstable Underworld that is starting to bleed into tyria via spots like godslost swamp. Anet showed Korms realm falling apart for a reason.I'm not sure what to make of the red lady but I can see the commander being in trouble for escaping the underworld if Dhuum gets out which could make an interesting side story for the next lw.

[Assic.2746]

Interestingly the Stanctum - Kormir's realm or a part of her realm also falls to shadow creatures & aatxes.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@Assic.2746 said:Interestingly the Stanctum - Kormir's realm or a part of her realm also falls to shadow creatures & aatxes.

That is indeed a bit strange, since there wasn't that many shadow creatures in the Torment. While there was many Shadow Army, shadow creatures like Abyssals and Aatxes were not that frequent.

Looks like the remains of margonites or at least inscripted monliths ended up turned into Jackals, but nightmare creatures remained in the mists, and they are leaking from the underworld. There was probably no new Titans made, and there's no signs of stygians or torment creatures. Some demons similar to torment creatures served Dhuum, too, and dryders were also related to Dhuum. Even though we haven't seen any Dryders for ages.The closest we've ever seen to a dryder is Samarog. While dryders were spider-like creatures and Samarog looks dragon-like, both have a par of arms coming from the middle of their backs between their legs. While that is the only similarity, it's a rather noticeable one. But that doesn't mean they are related in any way, since you also have djinn, forgotten and seer sharing a particularity like that: 4 arms.

Then there's Dhumm's skeletons. Unless fleshreavers are also related to Dhuum in some way, the closest we've seem to a Dhuum servant are these mysterious skeletons, since Dhuum had an army of skeletons and the Skeletal Army in fissure wasn't part of Menzie's forces, so they could have been Dhuum's.

So what does it say to us that the creatures taking over the Sanctum were ghosts, imps, fleshreavers and shades instead any of the previusly found enemies? Well, not much, since that could have just been using the assets they have, since it's cheaper than making new ones.

[maxwelgm.4315]

@Assic.2746 said:Interestingly the Stanctum - Kormir's realm or a part of her realm also falls to shadow creatures & aatxes.

I wondered about that do while doing the Griffon quests. I thought Aatxes and shades were beings particular to the Underworld? Anet's interview and in-game lore conflict themselves here because they claim Abbadon's older minions invaded in interview but if you ask the spirit inside the Dark Sanctum she says beings simply from "the Mists" invaded (or was it the other way around?). You'd expect that if the realm was falling apart, crazy/random things like Fractal enemies would invade and not minions that are specifically from the Underworld. Maybe Dhuum is raiding every godly realm at once (which gives plenty of opportunity for both Living World AND raid scenarios complementing each other, by the way).

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

I think the presence of Nightmares, Imps, and Fleshreavers was just because those are the only "established generic evil Mists creatures" that GW2 has models for already and they didn't want to create a brand new set of foes for that one singular instance.

The only creatures seen in GW1 that were "native" to the Realm of Torment, from a technically view point, were just the Margonites, some torment demons, and titans. Though getting technical, torment creatures / stygians are "general Mists beings" like Nightmares, and had only a few breeding grouns in the Realm of Torment (primarily the Stygian Veil).

In the AMA a dev said that they were just "evil Mists beings" and not Abaddon forces like the NPCs there claim.

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:the closest we've seem to a Dhuum servant are these mysterious skeletons, since Dhuum had an army of skeletons and the Skeletal Army in fissure wasn't part of Menzie's forces, so they could have been Dhuum's.

That would be true if you're ignoring the dryders that are outright stated to have been sent by Dhuum, the dream riders which The Fury is one of and are among the forces invading the Tomb of the Primeval Kings / Dragon Festival but never shows up among Abaddon's or Menzies' forces, ignoring that [some torment demons are called emmisaries of Dhuum](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Emissary_of_Dhuum_(warrior%29), and ignoring that the titans, though born in the Realm of Torment during GW1's time period, were being [created by The Fury]() thus being among Dhuum's forces not Abaddon's.

In short:

• Menzies' forces: Nightmares (Shadow Army) and some torment demons (Darknesses, Greater Darkness, and the Deathbringer Company)
• Abaddon's forces: Margonites and Stygian Veil's torment demons
• Dhuum's forces: Skeletons, dryders, titans, ghosts, and some torment demons

We are unsure which of the three some groups align with, primarily chaos wurms, due to them only showing up during a clear combination-of-all-three assault (Tombs and Dragon Festival)

Dhuum's forces are the most diverse, but at the same time every group is few in number.

@maxwelgm.4315 said:Anet's interview and in-game lore conflict themselves here because they claim Abbadon's older minions invaded in interview but if you ask the spirit inside the Dark Sanctum she says beings simply from "the Mists" invaded (or was it the other way around?).

It was the other way around, and given evidence you'd take the AMA over the NPC who could be argued to be an unreliable narrator.

@maxwelgm.4315 said:You'd expect that if the realm was falling apart, crazy/random things like Fractal enemies would invade and not minions that are specifically from the Underworld. Maybe Dhuum is raiding every godly realm at once (which gives plenty of opportunity for both Living World AND raid scenarios complementing each other, by the way).

Not necessarily. Firstly, it deals with where in the Mists both things are. The Realm of Torment is directly connected to the Underworld after all, so it's bound to be much closer than any of the Fractals. Secondly, it deals with where else in the Mists Nightmares and such can be found - we know that Nightmares pop into Thaumanova Reactor Fractal when it's going all Mists-crazy, which implies that they're more common than simply within the Underworld, not to mention that Nightmares (especially shades and shade-like creatures in GW2) are seen all over the place in Tyria as well, even without Mists involvement.