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Red Lady and Mysterious Skeletons


Sithis.3564

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It would be great if before going into dhuum as a new enemy's and making new monsters to fight and such, if they've would release a current event that explains which enemies belong to which former god/God level threat people. Between adding those enemies somewhere new and having us scour the world for history tomes, they could explain it all easily and prepare noobs

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@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Then there's Dhumm's skeletons. Unless fleshreavers are also related to Dhuum in some way, the closest we've seem to a Dhuum servant are these mysterious skeletons, since Dhuum had an army of skeletons and the Skeletal Army in fissure wasn't part of Menzie's forces, so they could have been Dhuum's.

So what does it say to us that the creatures taking over the Sanctum were ghosts, imps, fleshreavers and shades instead any of the previusly found enemies? Well, not much, since that could have just been using the assets they have, since it's cheaper than making new ones.

Actually, I think fleshreavers were created by the charr Rragar Maneater way back in GW1. The Master Dungeon Guide on Rragar's Menagerie says,

Greater dangers awaited deep within the earth, where a Charr named Rragar Maneater bred a race of murderous creatures. These creatures, known as fleshreavers, were horrible, voracious monsters with an unusual evolutionary method. Young fleshreavers, it seems, are born as barely more than tiny skeletons. To survive and evolve, the emaciated young rely on their parents to harvest muscle, organ, and fat from their prey, and then layer it over their skeletons of the newborns. Rragar had taken advantage of this disgusting, yet easily-manipulated evolution, to perform ghastly experiments on the fleshreavers, turning them into powerful weapons to be used against humanity. By searching carefully, we found unexpected allies among Rragar's failed creations. Rragar was still difficult to defeat, for he was armed with powerful magic and could teleport freely around his twisted workshop.

In GW1 fleshreavers were only ever encountered in Rragar's Menagerie and one other Depths of Tyria map, the Heart of the Shiverpeaks. It wasn't until GW2 that we get any suggestion that they have anything to do with the Mists.

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:the closest we've seem to a Dhuum servant are these mysterious skeletons, since Dhuum had an army of skeletons and the Skeletal Army in fissure wasn't part of Menzie's forces, so they could have been Dhuum's.

That would be true if you're ignoring the dryders that
, the dream riders
and are among the forces invading the Tomb of the Primeval Kings / Dragon Festival but never shows up among Abaddon's or Menzies' forces, ignoring that [some torment demons are called emmisaries of Dhuum](
), and ignoring that the titans, though born in the Realm of Torment during GW1's time period, were being [created by The Fury]() thus being among Dhuum's forces not Abaddon's.

I'm surprised to hear this. From everything I've seen, the titans were presented as doing Abaddon's work (directing the charr to perform the Searing ritual etc.). I can't remember why but I know that the consensus in the lore community from a very early stage (Dragon Festival 2006 IIRC) was that the Fury was affiliated with Dhuum. But we never fee the titans fight alongside Dhuum's forces in the Underworld, Dragon Festival, or Tombs of Primeval Kings, and they are generally more associated with the Realm of Torment than the Underworld in general.

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I have a few suspicions on this. However, warning: spoiler heavy, proceed at your own risk.

 

With the departure of the 5 remaining gods and the death of Balthazar, there is a power gap in the Mists. Menzies has not been mentioned since Guild Wars when he attempted to help a fallen god escape from his prison. Now, with no one to challenge him, this god may be making his move. He is death incarnate. He is the damnation of souls. He is Dhuum...and he is coming.

 

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I think we are talking about The Countess of Hakewood here (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Countess_of_Hakewood). She is from D.S. (D'Alessio Seaboard), she's a Halloween character, she wears red. Also, a quote from the mission "An Ingenious Plan" that she gives: "The time draws near. Can you feel it? The seals that divide this world from our realm grow weaker".

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@Tamias.7059 said:Actually, I think fleshreavers were created by the charr Rragar Maneater way back in GW1. The Master Dungeon Guide on Rragar's Menagerie says,-snip-In GW1 fleshreavers were only ever encountered in Rragar's Menagerie and one other Depths of Tyria map, the Heart of the Shiverpeaks. It wasn't until GW2 that we get any suggestion that they have anything to do with the Mists.

Rragar breed the fleshreavers, as that entry says. He did not create them. The fact they could be found in the Heart of the Shiverpeaks, so very, very far away from charr homelands, shows this.

@Tamias.7059 said:I'm surprised to hear this. From everything I've seen, the titans were presented as doing Abaddon's work (directing the charr to perform the Searing ritual etc.). I can't remember why but I know that the consensus in the lore community from a very early stage (Dragon Festival 2006 IIRC) was that the Fury was affiliated with Dhuum. But we never fee the titans fight alongside Dhuum's forces in the Underworld, Dragon Festival, or Tombs of Primeval Kings, and they are generally more associated with the Realm of Torment than the Underworld in general.

The titans were doing Abaddon's work, but so was The Fury and The Darknesses. Hence they were in an alliance. The Fury was only connected to Dhuum once DoA was released.

Tell me about this place."The Foundry of Failed Creation is not merely a prison camp. It also acts as a staging area for an attack on the mortal plane. The Fury and his minions await the opening of the Door of Komalie, a gateway that leads from here into Tyria. Some years ago a powerful lich...another powerful minion of Abaddon...opened a gateway. It only remained open a brief time, but countless souls were sent through to become titans. Fortunately, for reasons unknown to me, the Door of Komalie was closed almost immediately.Who is the Fury?"The Fury is the overseer of this hell hole. He is a follower of Dhuum, but served the fallen god, Abaddon until his defeat. Now, the Fury has taken up a new master, Mallyx the Unyielding, the lord of this realm. The Fury uses demonic troops to torment the souls of the prisoners within these walls. Those torments souls are part of some dark ritual to create powerful titans.Why is he creating titans?"This is what the world would be like if demons stitched together a number of failed realities to create a home for themselves. It is the Foundry of Failed Creations, and houses the Fury, his demon enforcers, and the spirits of broken prisoners."

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Relkyss_the_Broken

What will we find inside the Foundry?"Inside the Foundry is the Door of Komalie...a passage to the realm of the living. Countless Titans wander these halls. They are sick, twisted creatures formed by tormented souls. The followers of Dhuum have gathered here under the command of The Fury, seeking to gain favor with Mallyx the Unyielding."

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Aurus_Trevess

Khilbron was commanding not Abaddon's forces, but Dhuum's forces offered to Abaddon.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

What will we find inside the Foundry?"Inside the Foundry is the Door of Komalie...a passage to the realm of the living. Countless Titans wander these halls. They are sick, twisted creatures formed by tormented souls.
The followers of Dhuum have gathered here
under the command of The Fury, seeking to gain favor with Mallyx the Unyielding."

Khilbron was commanding not Abaddon's forces, but Dhuum's forces offered to Abaddon.

I don't consider this to be in any way conclusive. The titans are mentioned separately to the followers of Dhuum - it is just as valid a reading of the passage, possibly even more so, that the titans and the followers of Dhuum are separate (but allied) groups within the Foundry, rather than that the titans belong to Dhuum.

Consider that there are five groups of minions and allies of Abaddon (Margonites, Torment Demons, titans, Shadow Army, Dhuum-followers) and four realms before the Ebony Citadel. So two of them had to share a realm. It makes sense that given the origins of the titans that Dhuum might be involved, but I don't think there's anything that demonstrates that the titans were minions of Dhuum on loan to Abaddon, as opposed to being minions of Abaddon that Dhuum helped to create.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:[...]That would be true if you're ignoring the dryders that are outright stated to have been sent by Dhuum, the dream riders which The Fury is one of and are among the forces invading the Tomb of the Primeval Kings / Dragon Festival but never shows up among Abaddon's or Menzies' forces, ignoring that [some torment demons are called emmisaries of Dhuum](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Emissary_of_Dhuum_(warrior%29), and ignoring that the titans, though born in the Realm of Torment during GW1's time period, were being [created by The Fury]() thus being among Dhuum's forces not Abaddon's.

I meant in GW2. If you read above I do mention dryders as being related to Dhuum. But we do not know if all dryders are. After all some of Dhuum's demons looked like other demons such as warrior torment creatures. That could mean that models are shared so they didn't have to make new ones, or that there's demons of the same kind siding with either Dhuum or Abaddon. And in the same way that could happen with such demons, it could happen with dryders, so we don't know if dryders are Dhuum's, or it's just some particular ones. There's the non-canon stuff about Arachnia. Looking kind of arachnid, dryders could have been servants of her that survived her disappearance.We just don't know of stuff that happened in the mists so far back.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:I don't consider this to be in any way conclusive. The titans are mentioned separately to the followers of Dhuum - it is just as valid a reading of the passage, possibly even more so, that the titans and the followers of Dhuum are separate (but allied) groups within the Foundry, rather than that the titans belong to Dhuum.

Consider that there are five groups of minions and allies of Abaddon (Margonites, Torment Demons, titans, Shadow Army, Dhuum-followers) and four realms before the Ebony Citadel. So two of them had to share a realm. It makes sense that given the origins of the titans that Dhuum might be involved, but I don't think there's anything that demonstrates that the titans were minions of Dhuum on loan to Abaddon, as opposed to being minions of Abaddon that Dhuum helped to create.

It's stated outright that the "followers of Dhuum" gathered at the Foundry. At the Foundry of Failed Creations you see only a handful of Margonites, many many titans, and a tiny couple of dryders and dream riders, most of which consist of The Fury and his guard.

As such, if titans were not the followers of Dhuum you'd expect far more dryders and dream riders, at the very least.

More telling however was the first quote NPC's line: "The Fury and his minions await the opening of the Door of Komalie, a gateway that leads from here into Tyria."

Who went through the Door of Komalie? Titans. Who made the titans? The Fury.

There isn't a single line anywhere that indicates that titans were being made outside of The Fury's purview.

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:I meant in GW2. If you read above I do mention dryders as being related to Dhuum. But we do not know if all dryders are. After all some of Dhuum's demons looked like other demons such as warrior torment creatures. That could mean that models are shared so they didn't have to make new ones, or that there's demons of the same kind siding with either Dhuum or Abaddon. And in the same way that could happen with such demons, it could happen with dryders, so we don't know if dryders are Dhuum's, or it's just some particular ones. There's the non-canon stuff about Arachnia. Looking kind of arachnid, dryders could have been servants of her that survived her disappearance.We just don't know of stuff that happened in the mists so far back.

"In GW2" we don't see anything directly linked to Dhuum's minions, let alone skeletons. Indirectly, we only have one thing: the Shadow Behemoth.

In GW1, all dryders in the Mists that we see are either tied to Dhuum or to nothing. Same with the Dream Riders. And then titans are only directly attached to Dhuum or Abaddon though in the latter it's no more than any other allied force.

And Arachnia is non-canon so we cannot (accurately) consider it in the least until we get indication that it may be canon.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Tamias.7059 said:Actually, I think fleshreavers were created by the charr Rragar Maneater way back in GW1. The Master Dungeon Guide on Rragar's Menagerie says,-snip-In GW1 fleshreavers were only ever encountered in Rragar's Menagerie and one other Depths of Tyria map, the Heart of the Shiverpeaks. It wasn't until GW2 that we get any suggestion that they have anything to do with the Mists.

Rragar breed the fleshreavers, as that entry says. He did not create them. The fact they could be found in the Heart of the Shiverpeaks, so very, very far away from charr homelands, shows this.

It says that he bred a race of them. If someone is said to have bred a breed of dog, you would assume that that breed originated with them, rather than that person being one of many who cultivates that breed. Plus, we have Rragar himself calling Hidesplitter a "magnificent creation" and his "most prized speciment", and the Master Dungeon Guide entry says that Blobby is "among Rragar's failed creations".

More concretely, in the quest Veiled Threat there are plenty of direct references to fleshreavers being Rragar's creations. "[Rragar] rears a new breed of creatures he intends to utilize to destroy humans", "Be sure to destroy his creations as well", "We've found you and your vile creations", ""You seem in a hurry to be devoured by our creations. My fleshreavers shall accomodate you". I'm sure there'd be more if I continued to look.

Also, I think you might be exaggerating the distance between the Heart of the Shiverpeaks and the charr homelands. It's right near the Central Transfer Chamber, which is somewhere between the Shiverpeaks and Ascalon. The presence of fleshreavers in the Heart of the Shiverpeaks is most easily explained from the piece of trivia on GWW (from which most of the above information comes from) that says, "The first level in [Rragar's Menagerie] includes the entire last level of Heart of the Shiverpeaks as part of its map".

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:I don't consider this to be in any way conclusive. The titans are mentioned separately to the followers of Dhuum - it is just as valid a reading of the passage, possibly even more so, that the titans and the followers of Dhuum are separate (but allied) groups within the Foundry, rather than that the titans belong to Dhuum.

Consider that there are five groups of minions and allies of Abaddon (Margonites, Torment Demons, titans, Shadow Army, Dhuum-followers) and four realms before the Ebony Citadel. So two of them had to share a realm. It makes sense that given the origins of the titans that Dhuum might be involved, but I don't think there's anything that demonstrates that the titans were minions of Dhuum on loan to Abaddon, as opposed to being minions of Abaddon that Dhuum helped to create.

It's stated outright that the "followers of Dhuum" gathered at the Foundry. At the Foundry of Failed Creations you see only a handful of Margonites, many many titans, and a tiny couple of dryders and dream riders, most of which consist of The Fury and his guard.

As such, if titans were not the followers of Dhuum you'd expect far more dryders and dream riders, at the very least.

More telling however was the first quote NPC's line: "The Fury and his minions await the opening of the Door of Komalie, a gateway that leads from here into Tyria."

Who went through the Door of Komalie? Titans. Who made the titans? The Fury.

There isn't a single line anywhere that indicates that titans were being made outside of The Fury's purview.

I recall quite a few dryders and dream riders in the rooms on the way in, too.

We don't really know how many followers of Dhuum there were actually left in the Domain of Anguish at that point, or how many were under the Fury's control rather than another of Dhuum's representatives. If his job was to help with producing the titans, he might not actually have had a huge army to begin with.

It's possible that, after Abaddon's death, the Fury assumed command of the titans, either through his own power or as a delegate of Mallyx, but I don't think anything points to the titans being Dhuum's as opposed to being Abaddon's.

@Tamias.7059 said:

@Tamias.7059 said:Actually, I think fleshreavers were created by the charr Rragar Maneater way back in GW1. The Master Dungeon Guide on Rragar's Menagerie says,-snip-In GW1 fleshreavers were only ever encountered in Rragar's Menagerie and one other Depths of Tyria map, the Heart of the Shiverpeaks. It wasn't until GW2 that we get any suggestion that they have anything to do with the Mists.

Rragar breed the fleshreavers, as that entry says. He did not create them. The fact they could be found in the Heart of the Shiverpeaks, so very, very far away from charr homelands, shows this.

It says that he bred a race of them. If someone is said to have bred a breed of dog, you would assume that that breed originated with them, rather than that person being one of many who cultivates that breed. Plus, we have Rragar himself calling Hidesplitter a "magnificent creation" and his "most prized speciment", and the Master Dungeon Guide entry says that Blobby is "among Rragar's failed creations".

More concretely, in the quest
there are
plenty
of direct references to fleshreavers being Rragar's creations. "[Rragar] rears a new breed of creatures he intends to utilize to destroy humans", "Be sure to destroy his creations as well", "We've found you and your vile creations", ""You seem in a hurry to be devoured by our creations. My fleshreavers shall accomodate you". I'm sure there'd be more if I continued to look.

Also, I think you might be exaggerating the distance between the Heart of the Shiverpeaks and the charr homelands. It's right near the Central Transfer Chamber, which is somewhere between the Shiverpeaks and Ascalon. The presence of fleshreavers in the Heart of the Shiverpeaks is most easily explained from the piece of trivia on GWW (from which most of the above information comes from) that says, "The first level in [Rragar's Menagerie] includes the entire last level of Heart of the Shiverpeaks as part of its map".

The lore on fleshreavers is a bit all over the place. My interpretation from the Master Dungeon Guide is that fleshreavers existed before Rragar, but Rragar found them to be a suitable starting point for his experiments - to use your breeding analogy, he created new breeds of fleshreavers, but he didn't create the species (you wouldn't say that your hypothetical dog breeder created the species of dogs, after all, just the specific breed(s). The life cycle of fleshreavers seems to have some similarities with the Torment demons as seen in the Stygian Veil, which start out skeletal and grow musculature from there. The Stygian demons don't appear to need fleshreaving to achieve their full growth, but it does seem as if "skeleton first and then add flesh" has some precedent among Mist creatures.

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@Tamias.7059 said:Also, I think you might be exaggerating the distance between the Heart of the Shiverpeaks and the charr homelands. It's right near the Central Transfer Chamber, which is somewhere between the Shiverpeaks and Ascalon. The presence of fleshreavers in the Heart of the Shiverpeaks is most easily explained from the piece of trivia on GWW (from which most of the above information comes from) that says, "The first level in [Rragar's Menagerie] includes the entire last level of Heart of the Shiverpeaks as part of its map".

Drax covered the breeding part for me, but for the distance: an asura gate leading to the Heart of the Shiverpeaks is "right near the Central Transfer Chamber" (though not technically as it's right next to the zone exit which is the whole Destructions' Depths + an asura gate distance).

The actual location of the dungeon, where the little icon is on the world map, is pretty much directly inbetween Slavers' Exile and Boreas Pass.

Also, about the trivia: we see every dungeon map being reused multiple times, with many overlaps of which segments are being used - there's only about 4 or so in total really - but none of them share foes, ever. Rather than that trivia being an answer, it is a "curious coincidence". Vlox's Excavations and Slavers' Exile both utilize that same level, IIRC, and almost in full as well.

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@SlateSloan.3654 said:in the north of the swamp in queensdale are these npc at a table. if you talk to one of them it opens up a big green portal and usually a veteran boss comes out there. did anyone check what happens now if you activate it? cant do it myself as i had no time today and need to get up early.

Scholar Taryn talks about the book she found. If you wish to continue the talk with her a portal to the Underwold will open and a flesh reaver will spawn.

I've been translating this book I found. It's the story of one woman's attempt to enter the Underworld. This part is interesting. "Finally. After months, I've perfected my ritual. I've written it in blood, just as the necromancers would. I've hesitated for three days now. I don't know what I'll find. I tried to open a window, but I couldn't see in. I opened the door at dawn, but I couldn't pass through, nor could I see in. Night is coming, and now, I can't close the door again."

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar_Taryn

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That book and that event have always been there. And as of earlier today, there haven't been any changes to it. At least not that I noticed. It's not like it's an event I do often or anything. But none of it seemed relevant to these new corpses, regardless. And it all lines up with the wiki.

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@Warlord.9082 said:I think we are talking about The Countess of Hakewood here (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Countess_of_Hakewood). She is from D.S. (D'Alessio Seaboard), she's a Halloween character, she wears red. Also, a quote from the mission "An Ingenious Plan" that she gives: "The time draws near. Can you feel it? The seals that divide this world from our realm grow weaker".

I don't think this works because it's actually d'Alessio Seaboard, capitalizing the 'd' doesn't make it part of the name, its a prefix just like 'van, from, of, the, le, etc'

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In the north east of Kessex Hills, there is an event where you follow a creepy gravekeeper into a cave/tomb place, then he summons some fleshreavers and attacks you. The area has a lot of underworld portals and shades and aatxes. The event itself has been around a while, but I noticed that, when the gravekeeper attacks, a strange red symbol appears on the ground in the crypt. It looks like an orb with lines or tendrils coming from it, it can show up in slightly different places, and it disappears as soon as the event is over (all enemies dead). I don't really know if this is new, but I've done the event a few times in the past and don't remember the red symbol showing up, plus the wiki didn't say anything about it. Just wondering if this might have to do with anything, or if it's been there the whole time.

P.S. I've done the event twice since the Dead Bodies were discovered and both times the symbol appeared, just in slightly different places. I was on my Sylvari necro, and I had already checked out the two bodies, in case any of that matters.

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If it was Scarlet some people really dislike her and some people want her to return.

However I doubt it's Scarlet I think we are mostly dealing with Dead Bodies and Dhuum who might make a return hopefully we might have one god around maybe.I don't mind dealing with Dhuum and we will see the whole Dhuum vs Grenth right?

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@SlateSloan.3654 said:has the crime scene in divinity reach under the grenth waypoint always been there? there are 4 seraph standing but no corpse around. the serap tell that they cant speak about it but recommend to keep the doors closed at night

Yes, that's from the original launch. I think it's meant to be a reference about the street gangs such as seen in the chapter 1 human storylines like the Widowmakers.

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