Please extend or remove these target caps devs

[Bristingr.5034]

3 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Anet never will, just only the event, which they barely run once a year.

Res skills could use an adjustment though, or taken out for all I care, there should be more consequences to going down or dying while surrounded by 50 people.

Yes, lift the cap on rez skills so I can use my Glyph of Renewal more.

[Swagger.1459]

@Jarwan.8263

 

By any chance, are you a newer player?

… … …

 

”What you seem to be missing is that technical limitations are not about the fact that a solution somewhere may have existed for some other thing. Our game is using an engine that has these technical limitations. We could, for instance, display everything as text, which would solve the problem quite nicely, however we’ve found that our graphics offer something a text-based MMO couldn’t quite deliver. The point is, it is very much a limitation of our engine. The load on the server CPU would be quite simply unsustainable if we were to increase the AoE cap as the more players hit by skills the more calculations it has to do and it actually starts increasing exponentially, rather than sequentially. We continue to seek out ways to squeeze more performance out of our game and our servers, but it is highly unlikely we would ever make a change to the AoE limits on player skills.”

 

 

Umm, well, I said “even more”, so that’s a mistake on your part. 
 

… So now that we have established the technical limitations that would cause lag, this thread is moot. 

 

GL! 

[Jarwan.8263]

i can't facepalm any harder than that post.. that quote is from like a decade ago.. if this was a new game fine.. understandable that in the beginning they had technical limitations preventin the caps increasing.. but older skills had a higher cap back then and decade later the engine hasn't been improved? 

and during those years we've had nothing but backward balance patches and reduction to power coefficients across the board... so excuse me if i choose not to believe that bull when to me its apparent the long drawn out zerg gameplay is what they aim for.. 

[Sahne.6950]

Hey guys! (long text, but bare with me.. this is some valuable points!)

With the recent balance patches its becoming more and more clear that Anet wants the WvW meta to shift towards meelecombat instead of Pirateship battles. Sadly they are approaching this from the wrong direction, like we already know from Anet. They are again blanketnerfing. This time they nerfed damage of alot of the popular rangedoptions. Instead of nerfing range... and turning this into more of a staring contest, than it already is...  Just imagine for a second that they would increase the targetcap for Meelehits to 10. This would create a meelemeta within minutes, without blanketnerfing ranged into uselessness.

I am well aware why they introduced the targetcap (serverload,etc.). I just wanted to know if, EVERY limitations like Serverload aside, you guys think this is how they should do it.

Imo i think this is THE ONLY way that we are gonna see a metashift towards meele, without destroying Rangedoptions completly.

i just want to hear opinions on this! im not saying we have to do it 😄 They are only just now limiting everything to 5 and i accept that, but i think for meele they should actually go in the other direction. You have so many meelehits that only hit 3 players maximum... WHY? if you for some weird reason manage to hit a ranger Maul on 10 people... you should be rewarded. Right now alot of the meelehits are sitting UNDER the targetcap of 5. which is weird when we consider that most ranged things are 5 nowadays, and hitting 5 players in meele is significantly more dangerous than doing it from 1200 range with a Aoe. The risk-reward balance just seems off... and i think that is also a factor why we will NEVER see a meelemeta, aslong as alot of meeleskills are sitting on the 3-target-cap.

Edit: I went thru some profession and checked how many targets diffrent meeleskills can hit. For ALOT of things like normalhitchains on ranger it is between 2 and 3 people, with the exception of Maul, this hits 5 targets. Elementlist is 3 targets across the board, wth the exception of skills that have a aoe effect at the end, they hit 5.  Guardian the same picture. Everything is 1 or 3 targets, except skills that leave a Aoe, they hit 5. Warrior? everything 3-targetcap.   WHYYYY?

If the targetcap of meelehits is not raised to atleast 5... we will NEVER see a meelemeta. Spamming Aoe´s from range will forever be the meta, simply because you hit more player with fewer risk. Everything you are gonna achieve by lowering ranged coefficients... is making this game slower... You simply cant play meele against a 50 people zerg, when your normalhitchain only hits 2 people!

Dear Anet, Instead of forcing us to go meele, by destroying Ranged... how about you make meele viable for largescalefights? Because right now.. going fullmeele will not work simply because of the limitations on targetcap. You need to understand that if you want people to play diffrently.. you need to give them other options, instead of destroying the way that people are currently doing it.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Abyssisis.3971]

12 hours ago, Jarwan.8263 said:

interesting... thats an good alternative to keeping the cap.. by simply making aoes stronger based on how many players are in.. aoe placed on 5 targets surrounded by a ton of players take more damage than if they weren't around.. didn't think of that 🤔

Yea, but it should only be certain aoe skills, not all aoe skills, that would be ridiculous lol

[Swagger.1459]

@Jarwan.8263

 

Reading is fundamental. That’s the 2nd time you have missed key points, so perhaps avoid the “face palm” stuff since you’re not really following along. 

 

”limitation of our engine”

 

 

While Anet has made updates, they are, well, obviously using the same modified GW1 game engine. Can you understand that? Maybe? Yes? No? 
 

And yet again, obviously larger groups gain just as much, if not more, advantages by increasing caps. They also have more access to boons and heals as part of a larger group. So… If you want to make larger groups even more potent, then you up the caps. Was that a sufficient enough basic explanation? 

[Sahne.6950]

4 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

And yet again, obviously larger groups gain just as much, if not more, advantages by increasing caps. They also have more access to boons and heals as part of a larger group. So… If you want to make larger groups even more potent, then you up the caps. Was that a sufficient enough basic explanation? 

While you are not wrong with what you are saying you are missing something here.

If they should completly remove targetcaps, smalller groups of 25 or so, could theoretically, Burst down a zerg with a nice damage spike. With targetcaps of 5. They cant.    

Yes largergroups would also benefit, that is true, but with the limitation to 5 targetcap. There is literally NOTHING that a smaller group can do against a full 50 man squad. 

i did not really follow your discussion there... just wanted to point that out.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Swagger.1459]

@Jarwan.8263

 

”Just wanted to hop in and mention, again, that the AoE cap on player skills is a technical limitation. Were we to increase that, skill lag would get considerably worse.”

 

 

/thread

[Jarwan.8263]

4 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

@Jarwan.8263

 

”Just wanted to hop in and mention, again, that the AoE cap on player skills is a technical limitation. Were we to increase that, skill lag would get considerably worse.”

 

 

/thread

you part of their PR team? just hand in your application already

 

the only technical limitations i see is with the devs themselves who aren't able to resolve or admit this a problem..

 

there is nothing that will suddenly shift the caps to being fair game until you can make sure there are always equal amounts of players engaged in pvp at any given time. thats impossible in wvw.

only then can both sides exude equal amount of pressure and the outcome is determined by the types of players themselves.

 

i  just wanna know how this mode was a good idea if they knew caps were a limitation.. why not limit squad size to 10? encourage the maps wide area to be filled more, why not bring on the mistlock instabilities and convert them someway to reduce a squads power? why not remove downstates if thats the case instead of events what small scale roamers yearn for to have an easier time chipping away big squads..

 

literally you'd think the riskier playstyles would therefore be encouraged as they do in other pvp games but anet has done a 180 over the years to cater to the slow, long drawn out fights where players are all waiting for cooldowns cause there isn't enough abilities available to effectively finish engagements quickly. thats my own thoughts formulated from the caps, power nerf and cele's buff.. i just don't get it.

 

i only play fa tempest and after 6.5k hours of roaming it i've probably spent atleast a quarter of that looking for 1-5 players to even engage in pvp against.. i look forward to daily camp cause thats the only time you can find consistent small groups to pvp with if they don't get big enough to ruin my enjoyment. otherwise its stagnant most times.

in every mmo the end game tends to be pvp and for me wvw in gw2 is a tarnished gem with untapped potential that could arguably be a successful standalone game if the right people handled it. i've only spent 90% of my gametime in wvw, take that opinion however you wish.

 

if you gonna put a target cap in a pvp sandbox king of the hill situation where squads of 50 players can team up and trailblaze over a map, alarms should begin to ring.. it doesn't take long to find yourself outnumbered, your damage ineffective and pointless to engage opponents at close range who are bunched up together way past the cap and worse, running supports.

you'll run into an impenetrable wall where regardless of how much power, ferocity, precision you stack you are useless to do anything that will amount to an opening for the rest of your group.

this just leads to bottlenecking the playstyles for certain classes that can zerg bust better than others at half the effort.. encouraging you to slot defensive stats to mitigate as much damage as you can.

 

ITS A PROBLEM WHETHER THERE ARE TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS OR NOT.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Jarwan.8263

[Swagger.1459]

@Jarwan.8263

 

Well, you are wrong, obviously. 

 

You can fix this “issue” of yours by getting groups organized. It is, after all, a mode designed for large groups of players to play. And if large groups are an issue for you, I would highly recommend SPvP perhaps? No large groups there for sure. 
 

 

[Xenesis.6389]

Game mode was designed for large scale battles, not large groups. Which means any number of groups of any size could be involved in large battles, not just one large blob ball.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Jarwan.8263]

1 hour ago, Swagger.1459 said:

@Jarwan.8263

 

Well, you are wrong, obviously. 

 

You can fix this “issue” of yours by getting groups organized. It is, after all, a mode designed for large groups of players to play. And if large groups are an issue for you, I would highly recommend SPvP perhaps? No large groups there for sure. 
 

 

when you say i'm wrong, you have to also add extra detail as to why so I can see where you're coming from. 

this mode may be designed for large groups to play, but its ultimately a flawed design that skews fairness in favour of the team with more active players running specific comps stacked.. you just can't beat that when it appears.. you have to be the same number as the opponents and stack the same way then its about who's better than the other.. otherwise they mitigate alot of damage that renders your pressure ineffective.

it impacts everyone including you and me... thats a negative, so you have to explain why thats wrong so i can understand.

if its really intended for large groups with the limitations of caps then it'd make sense for it to have been more of a battleground mode where everyone would have to queue and matchmake.. that way you could ensure and monitor everyones under the same parameters and playing under the same objective like sPvP.

but its 24/7... you can enter and leave whenever you want and do whatever you want.. some players like i love that freedom. the population however fluctuates over the hours and teams strength is based solely on how many players are active.. rather than the quality of the players active. like i'm not quite understanding the mentality of being able to accept technical limitations in a flawed design that should have seen fairness be priority from the get go.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Jarwan.8263

[Zikory.6871]

1 hour ago, Jarwan.8263 said:

this mode may be designed for large groups to play, but its ultimately a flawed design that skews fairness in favour of the team with more active players running specific comps stacked.. you just can't beat that when it appears..

True true, if you can't beat them, buff them more so you still can't beat them. Smart. 

[Swagger.1459]

@Jarwan.8263

 

The dev already explained this to you, yet you are dismissive because you don’t understand tech stuff. 

 

Ok, now you are complaining about fairness and such… WvW design drew inspiration from DAoC, not your wow battleground junk. WvW isn’t supposed to be “fair”, it’s akin to an “open world” 3 sided war. If you want “fair”, what not try spvp? 
 

 

[Jarwan.8263]

1 hour ago, Swagger.1459 said:

@Jarwan.8263

 

The dev already explained this to you, yet you are dismissive because you don’t understand tech stuff. 

you are right i don't understand tech stuff, but it doesn't mean i'm wrong. nowhere has caps implication been acknowledged by them. but players like you who daily forage berries at camps are in the majority that don't peelback the mechanics to see whats possible rather you log on forums to tell people like me are wrong without adding something of value to say why, other than dev said so... and you expect me to respond to that.

Quote

 

Ok, now you are complaining about fairness and such… WvW design drew inspiration from DAoC, not your wow battleground junk. WvW isn’t supposed to be “fair”, it’s akin to an “open world” 3 sided war. If you want “fair”, what not try spvp? 
 

 

this has already been answered in 2 different threads of mine, possibly more from others but its clear to me you don't understand the game mechanics enough to realise the caps implications.

sure daoc has 3 players capable of wiping an entire blob... i guarantee that doesn't happen all the time but you have to clap at how they managed to outsmart an entire blob.. i need to see links of that happening but how do you see that as unfair. they had equal chance and one chose to use it more effectively.

would you rather these caps satisfy your need to feel safe? perhaps add a safezone route so you can pick your berries. its a pvp game, you can't have opponents be strong cause they have more players.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Jarwan.8263

[Swagger.1459]

@Jarwan.8263

 

Yeah, I’m a roamer the majority of my play time, but keep assuming.

 

I’m not here to talk about all this other stuff, nor do I really care about it… Thread is about upping the caps or removing them, and I have a direct dev quote saying no. You don’t like that answer from the devs because you have zero understanding of tech stuff, so that’s a you problem.
 

The game and servers don’t run on magic, there are limitations that were clearly stated by the devs, yet you think they are just being “lazy”… Quite opposite, you are the one who doesn’t understand, so I’d avoid blaming others or making assumptions about topics that you are not knowledgeable in. 
 

Again, devs said no. Explained why in simple terms. Move on to a more productive topic, because again, the answer is no. 
 

 

[Swagger.1459]

@Sahne.6950

 

Well, it’s obviously constructive to remind players that wvw was designed primarily as a 3 sided mist war for massive battles to take place. Meanwhile, reminding some of the soloists whom seek to change this entire mode for their solo activities, that structured player vs player exists for their solo and small scale balancing desires.

 

The main problem with wvw is that some players who solo, stand around, duel… are expecting the entire mode and gear system to change for their solo and dueling activities… Doesn’t work that way. Not what the mode was designed for. 
 

This game isn’t designed for 1v1, that’s pretty obvious. It’s a team based game, so most decisions by the devs factor teams when it comes to balancing efforts. 
 

Honestly, some players should take advantage of spvp and stick with that. WvW wasn’t meant for the feint of heart, and there aren’t safety nets or training wheels in WvW like there are in spvp. Spvp is a good place to learn fundamentals of spvp, so I strongly encourage certain players to take advantage of it.
 

 

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid attacking each other. I've removed some posts.
Regards.

[BatelGeuce.3591]

As a ranger who uses one of the build slots for arrowcart, I second this idea.

Make it 50 though, I wanna hit them all.

[Aeolus.3615]

I have a question, cause i see alot of "omg Anet needs to remover target cap" but i feel those players or quite some of them doesnt know what that means....they would still be  at disadvantage and would QQ if anet really made that change....

Q: which skills should have it's  cap increased and if targets get increased way more than normal skill should not be spammed  how long would be a balance CD increase in that respective skill??

 

Elementalist cap skills:

I believe at least Meteor shower  should be  3 meteors per sec for 3 for 4 seconds  where  each metor should hit 5-7 players(some internal trait could make  players choose for more targets or more damage but never both) AND extra 5% damage for those who have stability, for its CD duration belive for decent balance and force players use well  the skill should  make it like  45-48sec CD (theres lost of wasted aoe spam in wvw and those players with perma alac in groups can have its skill CD halved), the damage redution per hit needs also to be removed as well, since almost everyone is condi bunker or minstrell on WvW this effect is killing the skill, this skill would hurt.

Healing Rain,.  theres stronger regens in game and regen isnt a strong  boon on pvp and can be easilly countered or used by the enemy has a offensive trigger, i would love to see its effect being aplyed on 15 targets on a 40 sec CD, this would help balance the amount of range/aoe condi bunkers spam wich is the most eficient meta on wvw at the moment.

Static field: 10 players 2 sec stun and unblockable seams  fair

UNsteady ground, i never liked this skill, imo should keep its 10 targets but last 6 seconds, could work like e a large pond that quagmires targets, apply  slow to targets that cross it and criple pulse every 2 sec, with a 32sec CD.

Shockwave, this skill IMO should have 2 effects, if target has stability this skill makes damage, if target does not have stability aply 1 sec daze and KB targets,10 targets on 40sec CD, impact range  needs to be slightly  increased as well.

Druid Avatar Glyphs:

All glyphs on Avatar fom need caps increased to 10.

 

I dont think theres need to increase more caps in other classes weapons nor utils.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Aeolus.3615