What's GW2's biggest lore mistake according to you?

[Fang.8291]

21 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

You mean, having the world change because it's 250 years later with several nations destroyed and other emerging?

That is not what I mean, but I simply do not care anymore to elaborate. As long as Guild Wars 2 writing gives me some bread crumbs and there are some writers that understand where I am coming from when I say that Guild Wars 2 desperately tries to walk away from what made this franchise great I am good with any story they write until any trace of the original game is gone, forgotten and this franchise is just another random fantasy setting with a dragon.

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, Fang.8291 said:

That is not what I mean, but I simply do not care anymore to elaborate. As long as Guild Wars 2 writing gives me some bread crumbs and there are some writers that understand where I am coming from when I say that Guild Wars 2 desperately tries to walk away from what made this franchise great I am good with any story they write until any trace of the original game is gone, forgotten and this franchise is just another random fantasy setting with a dragon.

Well, I wish you the best because everything I loved about GW1 is still very real for GW2, and I don't see this destruction of everything about GW1 ya'll see. The same unique elements are still here, the setting hasn't changed so drastically, and the lore of the first game is still relevant.

edit: I respect that you don't like how the story has headed, but your post just sounded like "I hate it because anything changed." at first. Which just is vague and leaves no room for discussion or reaction.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Kalavier.1097

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And things change within a company. Managers, writers, directions change as things go along. I don't recall any such EXPLICIT promises, just that we left Cantha knowing it would not be the same when we returned. That we'd come back and it wouldn't be the Cantha we knew.

The entire premise behind Beyond content was that explicit promise of "these things will be dealt with in GW2".

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Forgetting that in the story, we were rushing through the area disguised as the top tier official of the Awoken military at the time, to gather up the army to fight against Balthazar. The region was also destabilized by Joko being missing and the Forged and branded running rampant.

I didn't forget any of this. We enter Desolation without that disguise, and get welcomed in that village without that disguise, and the open world map take zero accounting for the disguise as after that village, Awakened are full out hostile to us.

 

By your argument of what I'm "forgetting", the Awakened army were waging a losing war against Archon Iberu.

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And the commander had to be explicitly told (if you talk to the one scout) to NOT start smashing everything in sight because of how dependant the culture was on the Awoken.

We were in Elona because we chased Balthazar there, before that point Elona hadn't done anything to the wider world. Which is a detail I love because Joko reacts to the events of path of fire with "Screw it, I left the rest of the world alone and you came in and trashed my place, so I'll just take over the world."

The point is that as a result of PoF and LS4, we actively overthrew the controlling government after two hostile invasions by enemy forces before us that shattered the stability of the region. Maybe they looked at the story of Path of fire and s4, and went...

None of what you say counters my point about Elona basically initiating as an infiltration where we get accepted by the people because of indoctrination by Joko-is-perfect mentality. Elona was barely destabilized, but they were occupied by Balthazar, but even if we got told not to start mashing things in Vabbi, we still got to explore Vabbi without being vilified on sight because "if there are outlanders here, they must be here by Joko's grace." Because the Vabbians said the same exact thing about Kralkatorrik.

It only became an active overthrow of government in Season 4, and even then it was still an infiltration mission half the plot, where the people accepted us despite being outsiders.

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

"Okay, we have this nation which went evil, was functional, but everything went to kitten because of an invasion(two) and the leadership was totally destroyed forcing chaos and splinter factions to appear."

"While we wouldn't need to do the same style of sneaking in story, how can we set up the story to return to Cantha that works? There isn't any reason to invade and topple the government of Cantha or even visit it without an external force, and Cantha would NOT by the attacking force by nature of isolation and the dead fleets."

It wouldn't be the same, sure. But it'd still be toppling a government and you'd need a REASON to be there in the first place. Having the effects of Zhaitan cause a degrading of Purity's power, and the government shifting so we arrive chasing Aetherblades but not sparking an international war is one thing. "Hey you are going back to Cantha, to conquer the nation and destroy the government!" is a hard sell from "We are trying to preserve peace and save the world." when the nation hasn't done a thing.

Not only are you artificially forcing "Cantha would not be the attacking force" (as well as keeping the dead fleets still an issue when nothing said they were until EoD; prior to EoD it was, in fact, the deep sea dragon that kept communications) but you also ignore that there is reason that can be made to invade Cantha including:

1. Tengu are the instigators of the invasion seeking assistance
2. Canthan ships were already washing ashore according to both Movement of the World and IBS magazine; can easily have a surviving ship now that Dead Fleet is diminished that creates reason for invasion
3. Flow of magic goes to Cantha and it's being a danger to the world, giving the ultimatum of either ignore and risk world go boom or investigate and risk war with xenophobic Cantha.

And that's just off the top of my head alone, if I actually brainstormed with others, we could come up with far more, and more interesting, scenarios. But honestly, #3 alone is pretty kitten interesting. It removes any clear good vs evil group because you have the fact that your goal isn't to just topple a government (and it wasn't for Joko either, Joko initiated the conflict and declared war himself). You're looking at the notion of keeping the government in a pure flat viewpoint of "there's only one possibility and that's to just straight up attack the established government for no reason". And yeah, that is boring. But no one says that's what it must be.

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

In your opinion. Bloodstones? You mean going from the human centric storytelling and human told histories to a wider story about what went down? Glint I don't even know what you mean besides making her a crystal dragon champion originally?

You call it "going from human centric storytelling and human told histories to a wider story".

I call it "being promised humans were the keepers of history and what they bring to the table is their knowledge of history but all their history turns out to be flat out lies left and right meaning humans bring jack squat to the alliance of races" as well as "taking a human centric storytelling and removing the human in order to tell a more narrow story" because you're not widening that story, you're replacing that story.

You want a retcon that was making a wider story? Abaddon. That was a retcon done well.

You had the story of the gods gifting magic, wars caused from it, and gods rescinding magic. This changed to an internal strife between the gods that led to wars and millennia long revenge plot to get back at losing the war after magic was rescinded.

Changing the Bloodstone went from "the gods created the Bloodstone to seal up magic using King Doric as a sacrifice, hence giving it the name Bloodstone" to "actually that's a lie, the gods just found this thing that was made by Seers using unknown means, idk why it's actually called Bloodstone but apparently it was even before Doric." Changing Glint's origin went from "the gods created Glint to protect the world and help guide the mortal races" to "actually that's a lie and Glint has no relation to the gods but was a child of Kralkatorrik given free will by the Forgotten."

 

The difference between the Abaddon retcon and the Bloodstone and Glint retcons is that the former is "there is missing history here" and "what you knew was a straight up lie, here's the truth."

 

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

As a GW1 vet, no the lore isn't completely retconned and destroyed. It's changed and evolved yes, but not to the point GW1 is worthless and meaningless. Which is what some people kitten and moan about. Any and all change.

And as a GW1 vet, I don't recall any promise that we'd personally be taking down Purity. And with the time jump and the nation going isolationist, I honestly never expected to actually return to Cantha when I started playing GW2. Or Elona, for that matter.

I didn't say completely destroyed. But there are key moments that are retconned and are of arguably lower quality because these retcons are not "there is missing history here" but rather "what you knew was a straight up lie, here is the truth".

Don't get me wrong, some things are "missing history" retcons, but there's more that are "that's a lie, here's truth" retcons.

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Jadetech is more on par with Asuratech, not 50 years ahead or anything.

Asuratech doesn't have a continent wide instantaneous news and show networks. It doesn't even have a city-wide news network; it still relies on the same word of mouth methods as other races.

Asuratech doesn't have modern kitchen appliances with modern kitchen appliance visuals and modern kitchen appliance names.

Asuratech doesn't use modern tech terms like "mech" and talk about programming despite it just being solid blocks of jade and magic.

 

Jadetech is arguably on par to asuratech. But it's treated as being vastly far more advanced. But even being on par to asuratech is laughably unrealistic because they went from 11th century technologies to modern-like asuratech-level magitech in 20 years. Nobody advances that quickly.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

42 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Well, I wish you the best because everything I loved about GW1 is still very real for GW2, and I don't see this destruction of everything about GW1 ya'll see. The same unique elements are still here, the setting hasn't changed so drastically, and the lore of the first game is still relevant.

edit: I respect that you don't like how the story has headed, but your post just sounded like "I hate it because anything changed." at first. Which just is vague and leaves no room for discussion or reaction.

It isn't that "everything has changed".

But enough has changed.

 

And I don't see any of the lore from the first game being very relevant beyond the very basic worldbuilding bits like "charr exist" and "this land is named Ascalon, a former human kingdom". As time goes on, fewer of the unique elements from GW1 remain, until you have only bones.

That said, we aren't at that state yet, but we are slowly encroaching it. And I do disagree with others about "every GW1 site is unrecognizable" that overtook that other thread (I mean, graphic quality alone is so different that even if they replicated it 1:1 it'd feel unrecognizable to some of those people).

And most importantly, it is straight up foolish to pretend that there are no acts of bad retcons and ignoring GW1 lore and worldbuilding and aesthetic that set up the foundation that people loved back then.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Kalavier.1097]

7 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It isn't that "everything has changed".

But enough has changed.

 

And I don't see any of the lore from the first game being very relevant beyond the very basic worldbuilding bits like "charr exist" and "this land is named Ascalon, a former human kingdom". As time goes on, fewer of the unique elements from GW1 remain, until you have only bones.

That said, we aren't at that state yet, but we are slowly encroaching it. And I do disagree with others about "every GW1 site is unrecognizable" that overtook that other thread (I mean, graphic quality alone is so different that even if they replicated it 1:1 it'd feel unrecognizable to some of those people).

And most importantly, it is straight up foolish to pretend that there are no acts of bad retcons and ignoring GW1 lore and worldbuilding and aesthetic that set up the foundation that people loved back then.

Are there some bad choices? Sure. I won't deny that. But I have, in discord, and other places seen people take "I disagree with this change/Why did this happen?" and quickly transform it into a massive/violent rant about how everything sucks in GW2. There is a line to be made clear. We got people complaining anything at all changed. We have people who have issues with certain changes. We have people who get outright aggressive and nasty toward anybody who enjoys GW2 as it is ATM.

Is it completely unrecognizable and has destroyed everything about the lore of GW1? No.

Things have changed yes, but it's foolish to pretend that nothing would change. The very nature of such a drastic time jump does mean that certain things would be less relevant because it's 250+ years later. That's natural. That does not discredit or remove the history of GW1.

I played all of GW1. GW2 is the same world and setting to me, 250 years later. Aesthetics have changed some, but it is the same world. The history of GW1 was written from a human perspective, all GW2 did was add in other perspectives as well.

I agree to disagree, on elements of this.

[Ashen.2907]

7 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And things change within a company. Managers, writers, directions change as things go along. I don't recall any such EXPLICIT promises, just that we left Cantha knowing it would not be the same when we returned. That we'd come back and it wouldn't be the Cantha we knew.

Forgetting that in the story, we were rushing through the area disguised as the top tier official of the Awoken military at the time, to gather up the army to fight against Balthazar. The region was also destabilized by Joko being missing and the Forged and branded running rampant.

And the commander had to be explicitly told (if you talk to the one scout) to NOT start smashing everything in sight because of how dependant the culture was on the Awoken.

We were in Elona because we chased Balthazar there, before that point Elona hadn't done anything to the wider world. Which is a detail I love because Joko reacts to the events of path of fire with "Screw it, I left the rest of the world alone and you came in and trashed my place, so I'll just take over the world."

The point is that as a result of PoF and LS4, we actively overthrew the controlling government after two hostile invasions by enemy forces before us that shattered the stability of the region. Maybe they looked at the story of Path of fire and s4, and went...

"Okay, we have this nation which went evil, was functional, but everything went to kitten because of an invasion(two) and the leadership was totally destroyed forcing chaos and splinter factions to appear."

"While we wouldn't need to do the same style of sneaking in story, how can we set up the story to return to Cantha that works? There isn't any reason to invade and topple the government of Cantha or even visit it without an external force, and Cantha would NOT by the attacking force by nature of isolation and the dead fleets."

It wouldn't be the same, sure. But it'd still be toppling a government and you'd need a REASON to be there in the first place. Having the effects of Zhaitan cause a degrading of Purity's power, and the government shifting so we arrive chasing Aetherblades but not sparking an international war is one thing. "Hey you are going back to Cantha, to conquer the nation and destroy the government!" is a hard sell from "We are trying to preserve peace and save the world." when the nation hasn't done a thing.

The problem is with destroying Purity is this. Why are we going to Cantha? What are we doing when we topple the government and destroy it? Who rebuilds the nation? What do we do, slaughter the masses who think we are invaders and fight to the end?

 

In your opinion. Bloodstones? You mean going from the human centric storytelling and human told histories to a wider story about what went down? Glint I don't even know what you mean besides making her a crystal dragon champion originally?

 

As a GW1 vet, no the lore isn't completely retconned and destroyed. It's changed and evolved yes, but not to the point GW1 is worthless and meaningless. Which is what some people kitten and moan about. Any and all change.

And as a GW1 vet, I don't recall any promise that we'd personally be taking down Purity. And with the time jump and the nation going isolationist, I honestly never expected to actually return to Cantha when I started playing GW2. Or Elona, for that matter.

 

Jadetech is more on par with Asuratech, not 50 years ahead or anything.

It's just that Jadetech is built by cooperative and public minded individuals, not mad scientists who put 15 extra steps into everything just to prove that they are superior to their peers, actively punish anybody who isn't "smart enough" and view ALL non-Asura individuals are being too stupid to understand any of it, including blowing up any Asura tech known to fall into others hands.

Rata Sum doesn't share with the other races. Xunlai jade actively goes "Hey, here's your training guide and we'll get you caught up." to any new hires. It's why it's so interesting to see how things may go forward because Asura are caught in the lie of their own creation, that the rest of the world is too stupid to understand. But Xunlai Jade proves that wrong.

Asura krewes bicker and fight, and even within the krewe they can sabotage each other. The Inquest are famous for doing this to the point of Rata Primus outright telling people to shut up and ignore the weird noises going on as the city burnt under an Awoken invasion. Xunlai jade cooperates and builds with the public in mind. Just look at how Xunlai Jade has a section devoted to medicine and treatments, where the Asura don't even care about Taimi's condition to the point she had to learn and build her own golem just to move about effectively.

 

When I go to Kaineng I dont see the general public being served by jade tech any more than in Rata Sum.

[Ashen.2907]

11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Luckily, we aren't at orbital satellite bombardment because mortla-made satellites don't exist.

 

I know that there is that engi skill that says "orbital bombardment" but it isn't. It isn't. It's airship bombardment. Know how I know? Because that skill is using the same exact animations as the Aetherblades' airship bombardment during Battle for Lion's Arch arc.

Could be from the Mists I guess, or just like Skyhammer - from a distant laser gun, like that Inquest laser gun in Mount Maelstrom that attacks the Largos Master Sdias if you let it.

 

Other than that bit tho, I agree. 250 years isn't enough to go from pre-Industrial to modern. Even if the Industrial revolution began 50 years after GW1 as indicated, that 200 years is not enough time. Using IRL time progression, we should be 1930s/1940s equivalent in GW2 at latest. And that's for charr and asura. Jadetech began 20 years ago, their development should be far behind asura not 50+ years ahead.

Well, I dont know that reusing an existing art asset means that the skill description is wrong.  As it stands the game says that there is orbital bombardment.

[Kalavier.1097]

4 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

When I go to Kaineng I dont see the general public being served by jade tech any more than in Rata Sum.

in Kaineng we see people describe being hired and taught everything they need to now. Jade tech appliances are all over, barring a few sections.

We literally in the story see that Taimi gets gear to help with her condition from a dedicated Medical wing of Xunlai, where in Rata Sum she was never given any help.

 

Rata Sum hoards tech and views the rest of the world as too stupid to understand any of it. Xunlai doesn't. Joon outright tells us at one point she wishes to trade and expand Jadetech to Tyria to help quality of life there.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Well, I dont know that reusing an existing art asset means that the skill description is wrong.  As it stands the game says that there is orbital bombardment.

Skill description:

Call down energy from the sky to blast an area.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orbital_Strike

That says nothing about satellites. "from the sky" - that can easily be any of the three examples I said. Airship, Mists, or just long range cannon.

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

in Kaineng we see people describe being hired and taught everything they need to now. Jade tech appliances are all over, barring a few sections.

We literally in the story see that Taimi gets gear to help with her condition from a dedicated Medical wing of Xunlai, where in Rata Sum she was never given any help.

 

Rata Sum hoards tech and views the rest of the world as too stupid to understand any of it. Xunlai doesn't. Joon outright tells us at one point she wishes to trade and expand Jadetech to Tyria to help quality of life there.

Jade tech not being used all over.

An awful lot of telling, not showing. Claiming that something is available for the general public while the general public doesnt use it means that either the claim is a lie or that the something is not seen as worth using.

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Jade tech not being used all over.

An awful lot of telling, not showing. Claiming that something is available for the general public while the general public doesnt use it means that either the claim is a lie or that the something is not seen as worth using.

The only place jadetech is not actively used is in the one corner where the eyes of the ocean are.

Even the Tengu ward is filled with jade bots, as part of the heart is realigning them.

We don't actively go into the houses of the people, and the city announcement literally says to hold off using jade-tech appliances during the meta event.

It's still explicitly shown that jade tech is a lot more accessible then Asura tech to the general world, as Asura of Rata Sum and their major towns don't treat anybody else as capable. 

[Einsof.1457]

Needs more gay characters. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

i will chorus with friend above:

-not enough gay characters 

[stormemperor.3745]

Playing Human story with flamethrower engineer during orphan house burning part.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

The human campaign should have started in Ascalon or fields of ruin, fighting charr, not centaurs; then they should make their way to divinity reach to continue the story.

Too similar to gw1?

Yes.

But I think that's how it should have happen. 

 

There's even a ton of human NPCs dialogue suggesting that's how the story should have happened. 

 

"Don't they have their own homeland? (Charr Homelands) why do they want ours? (Ascalon)"

"They think it belongs to them."

 

I strongly believe that this was the initial intended storyline, but was changed last minute.

 

Other than that... Primordious should have gotten a bigger role.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

I strongly believe that this was the initial intended storyline, but was changed last minute

Definitely not since the very first map previewed in 2010 was Blazeridge Steppes and it had nearly no changes to now. 2 years before launch with a nearly completed map is not "changed last minute". Neither would the teaser trailer showcasing charr in Ascalon in an incomplete Fireheart Rise, Black Citadel, Blazeridge Steppes, and Plains of Ashford in 2009, with humans in Divinity's Reach, Queensdale, and Kessex Hills shown.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[SoulGuardian.6203]

3 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Definitely not since the very first map previewed in 2010 was Blazeridge Steppes and it had nearly no changes to now. 2 years before launch with a nearly completed map is not "changed last minute". Neither would the teaser trailer showcasing charr in Ascalon in an incomplete Fireheart Rise, Black Citadel, Blazeridge Steppes, and Plains of Ashford in 2009, with humans in Divinity's Reach, Queensdale, and Kessex Hills shown.

Be that as it may, It is still my oppinion to the OP question.

Imo, Humans campaign should have started in One side of the wall, in the area between ashford and fields of ruin.

The charr should have the other side of the wall, and conflicts between both should happen regurarly. 

That's my oppinion, as an answer to OP.

 

When the dragons came, then it should follow up from the story bit that you do to unite all races.

 

Since there are charr that could never let go, such as Bangor, so should separatists have a bigger impact on human influence.

Not humans always trying to be noble and altruistic and forgot that charr killed humans by the millions... or close enough.

 

Charr are intrusive and destructive. 

Race description even says so.

There should be more story on it.

Yes, Humans did come to tyria from somewhere else, but it's only charr that complain about them.

All other races, seemed to me,  accepted and co-existed with humans. 

Charr retook ascalon, but even in victory, they can't let go of the desdain... if not pure  hatred, they feel towards humans.

 

You cannot blame Gwen, in eye of the North, about the way she feels about charr in general.

I confess that I became a fan of Pyre Fierceshot. 

But at the end, it was only a "One hand washes the other" kind of situation.

It took Flame Legion Shamans to threaten their lives, in order to seek an alliance with humans.

Hypocrisy enough that Pyre was in a position of weakness when negotiating with Gwen, but never reciprocated in Doomlore shrine against his own kind.

That shows everything you need to know about the charr.

 

So yeah. There's a ton more to it that I would have liked to be written differently. 

 

[Kalavier.1097]

7 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Be that as it may, It is still my oppinion to the OP question.

Imo, Humans campaign should have started in One side of the wall, in the area between ashford and fields of ruin.

The charr should have the other side of the wall, and conflicts between both should happen regurarly. 

That's my oppinion, as an answer to OP.

 

When the dragons came, then it should follow up from the story bit that you do to unite all races.

So you'd have the borders in GW2 start off exactly as they were in GW1? Even though GW1 made it clear that Ascalon was not going to last? They'd fight to the end, but they couldn't retake ground easily.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

2 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

So you'd have the borders in GW2 start off exactly as they were in GW1? Even though GW1 made it clear that Ascalon was not going to last? They'd fight to the end, but they couldn't retake ground easily.

Prince Rurik used the stormcaller, which was supposed to scatter the charr.

That hit a deadend and was forgotten on the spot.

Writing mistake or just pure negligence? 

They had an entire decade to rally forces and reinforce their army, but decided to go on wild goose chaces across maguma and the desert.

So in other words, to heck with our ascalonian people, and let's just save total strangers from spiders.

We'll quickly forget about them.

In GW2, they had a chance to fix this, but further downed humans as cowards that always run away when things get tough. 

Hence:

"... If you weren't always running away..."

- Rytlock Brimstone

 

I don't like the image that this game potraits of humans.

Gutless, Coward weaklings.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

22 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Yes, Humans did come to tyria from somewhere else, but it's only charr that complain about them.

All other races, seemed to me,  accepted and co-existed with humans. 

Yes. Only the charr.

Certainly not the centaur in Kryta or Elona.

Certainly not the tengu in Kryta or Cantha.

Certainly not the harpies or heket of Elona either.

Nor the ogres in Ascalon.

Just the charr.

  

1 minute ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Prince Rurik used the stormcaller, which was supposed to scatter the charr.

And immediately after using Stormcaller, Rurik outright stated that the charr would overpower Ascalon and the weapon myth was just that - a myth.

As shown in Eye of the North, where despite the Ebon Vanguard victories, Gwen's own quests showed that the charr were pushing ever further into Ascalon. Slowly but surely.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[SoulGuardian.6203]

4 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Yes. Only the charr.

Certainly not the centaur in Kryta or Elona.

Certainly not the tengu in Kryta or Cantha.

Certainly not the harpies or heket of Elona either.

Nor the ogres in Ascalon.

Just the charr.

Centaurs and Tengu are very territorial. 

They have a problem with everyone, not just humans... and yeah, they don't hate humans, they just fight for land takeover.

All the others are classed as second rate raced, not primary races. 

I know that you know this.

That was really unecessary. 

4 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

  

And immediately after using Stormcaller, Rurik outright stated that the charr would overpower Ascalon and the weapon myth was just that - a myth.

At that point he cowered up and decided to run away.

So humans have been running since.

4 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

As shown in Eye of the North, where despite the Ebon Vanguard victories, Gwen's own quests showed that the charr were pushing ever further into Ascalon. Slowly but surely.

Exactly.

They had plenty of time to reformulate strategies and gather troops.

They ran, and are running still. 

 

So my oppinion is that they should have stayed and fight.

But then, what was left in ascalon worth fighting for?

It's just a matter of principle. 

Give humans some credit.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

8 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Centaurs and Tengu are very territorial. 

They have a problem with everyone, not just humans... and yeah, they don't hate humans, they just fight for land takeover.

Literally charr.

Also lol @ notion of centaurs not hating humans. "Two-legs".

8 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Exactly.

They had plenty of time to reformulate strategies and gather troops.

They ran, and are running still. 

They did reformulate strategies. And they still were dying off in GW1.

They weren't running. They were dying in their homes.

We're not talking about the ones who left to Kryta, but those that remained.

[Kalavier.1097]

2 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

They did reformulate strategies. And they still were dying off in GW1.

They weren't running. They were dying in their homes.

We're not talking about the ones who left to Kryta, but those that remained.

Also let's not forget that Adelbern actively refused to accept foreign aid, aka the Shining Blade/reformed Krytan military when they went to ask him for some help from the Ebon Vanguard.

He circled the wagons and refused to budge, even to let help in.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

12 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Literally charr.

Also lol @ notion of centaurs not hating humans. "Two-legs".

Zhed and the other centaurs had almost zero respect for humans.

Doesn't mean that they hated them.

They spoke kindly to humans, not aggressive and angry like charr do.

12 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

They did reformulate strategies. And they still were dying off in GW1.

They had a chance to redeem humans in gw2. Yet chose to paint them as cowards that ran away... again.

12 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

They weren't running. They were dying in their homes.

We're not talking about the ones who left to Kryta, but those that remained.

My point exactly is that I would have liked the story to go differently. 

All boils down to want pre searing ascalon back as a playable area that belongs to humans.

They should have fought back.

Not let the charr take over an area that they only felt it belongs to them out of spite, and because they cannot accept defeat.

So much so, that they attacked Orr too.

They chased down humans in order to try wiped them out.

Not enough hatred? 

Norn are just as capable, but are not an invasive race, and only take what's necessary.

Same as asura and Sylvari. 

Charr bloodlust is insatiable and keep taking and taking... or did... until the dragons appeared. 

 

Jora:

"You have the spirit of a norn, human. I'm proud to call you friend."

 

Charr: Threats, Insults, etc...

Well, you get the point.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

18 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Zhed and the other centaurs had almost zero respect for humans.

Doesn't mean that they hated them.

They spoke kindly to humans, not aggressive and angry like charr do.

Oh, Elonian centaurs hating Kournans is a pretty blatant plot point. The entire reason they work with the Sunspears is because they hate the Kournans who enslaved them and want to take them down.

And in The Wilds mission, the Maguuma and Shiverpeak centaurs (Harathi and Modniir) are actively dissing Krytans and wanting to reignite war with them. Meanwhile, the Losaru are actively known to eat humans just because they can. In the Far Shiverpeaks, the Modniir launch a full out assault against the small group of humans present just because they can.

Only Ventari was the peaceful to humans.

And in GW2, Ulgoth reignites that war that began in 300 AE because of racism.

Quote

They had a chance to redeem humans in gw2. Yet chose to paint them as cowards that ran away... again.

Except that they aren't. You quoted one out of context line by Rytlock talking to Logan, and ignore the fact that Rytlock has a personal grudge about Logan, and later admits that said grudge was just him being in denial about his own failures.

 

You are actively ignoring facts for the sake of painting a false narrative.

Quote

They should have fought back.

Not let the charr take over an area that they only felt it belongs to them out of spite, and because they cannot accept defeat.

Ascalonians did fight back. That's my entire point. And they didn't let charr take over, they lost a war due to a forgotten god and a mad king.

Quote

Jora:

"You have the spirit of a norn, human. I'm proud to call you friend."

 

Charr: Threats, Insults, etc...

Well, you get the point.

Pyre:

"You show the cunning of a Charr and have no fear. For that, you have my respect, human. When the time comes that we must fight again, I shall not aim at you."

 

Yes, I too can take selective quotes without context and paint a specific light on characters and groups.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086