Leviathan farm needs a nerf

[MonsterTeddy.6135]

Recently, the Leviathan event has been getting a lot of attention as a mindless ambergris farm as it gives ambergris per kill, instead of once per day like from the Seitung meta event. This has led to the start of Levi farms in Seitung Province and New Kaineng, and it is becoming a menace.

Especially during prime hours, it involves hopping from instance to instance to search for fresh Leviathan events and leaving for another instance once it is cleared. With the small map population for each instance, it ends up generating a lot of closing maps that often don't refill.

This combined with how fishing party stacks don't transfer over to another instance makes it even more problematic. This is a lot worse than the previous mindless VB bauble farming, that inevitably got nerfed, since those tend to occupy the same instance instead of hopping all over.

Not only that, but the effects of this farm on ambergris sources and prices would no doubt affect the longevity of fishing in general. 2 months have already passed since EoD first released, the rewards from fishing have already started to dwindle as the prices begin to stabilize. With the lack of uses for lower rarity fishes, it is currently being carried by being one of the main sources of ambergris, which rewards people for farming through fishing and completing/repeating the collection achievements.

Anet if you're seeing this, please nerf the leviathan farm. Once per day or once per character per day would be reasonable enough.

Edited May 12, 2022 by MonsterTeddy.6135
punctuation

[Khisanth.2948]

3 hours ago, MonsterTeddy.6135 said:

This combined with how fishing party stacks don't transfer over to another instance makes it even more problematic. This is a lot worse than the previous mindless VB bauble farming, that inevitably got nerfed, since those tend to occupy the same instance instead of hopping all over.

Except the fishing power requirement for Seitung is so low that you don't even need a lure to go fishing there so the stacks are mostly pointless.

A lot worse than the VB bauble farm? What is a lot worse is your use of hyperbole. The VB farm was done by people being AFK at least requires active play.

 

Regardless of whether or not it gets nerfed(or fixed, it is probably a bug based on the other details I've seen people mention) the real problem for ambergris is the lack of sinks. The only uses for it are endless tonics and gen3 legendary.

[MonsterTeddy.6135]

25 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Except the fishing power requirement for Seitung is so low that you don't even need a lure to go fishing there so the stacks are mostly pointless.

 

15 minutes ago, Black Canary.4238 said:

Fishing in Cantha doesn't even acquire food nor lure., fishing power needed is very low.

It literally says on the fishing power tooltip that increasing FP increases the chances of catching higher rarity fish. The point about FP requirement for fishing in holes becomes irrelevant when you're talking about fishing as a farm. It's become a standard to max out FP (a large portion comes from Fishing Party stacks) if you're farming for ambergris through fishing coz you're aiming for legendary fishes (and other higher rarity fishes).

 

I agree about the lack of sinks though, lots of EoD stuff need more uses. Hopefully it gets expanded on as more content gets released.

 

28 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

A lot worse than the VB bauble farm? What is a lot worse is your use of hyperbole. The VB farm was done by people being AFK at least requires active play.

A lot worse in the sense that it affects other instances since it involves hopping between maps and instances to get one where the Levi event is up. Map close countdowns often happen soon after a large levi farm squad enters and leaves the map. It rarely refills afterwards especially if you're on during less populated hours.

 

15 minutes ago, Black Canary.4238 said:

Why would you ask for a nerf? Seems to me you need to grow up before posting on forums which are for 18+. 

Ah yes, jump straight to the ad hominem. Reflects pretty well doesn't it. /s

[mythical.6315]

I don’t think the intention was for fishing to be rewarding from a monetary standpoint. 

[MonsterTeddy.6135]

21 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

I don’t think the intention was for fishing to be rewarding from a monetary standpoint. 

On the contrary, if we're talking about "intention", I don't think the intention was for a one-off group event to be more rewarding than the map meta-event by hopping instances.

Edit: Unless any of us here are devs, we can't say for sure after all

Edited May 12, 2022 by MonsterTeddy.6135

[Ashen.2907]

If it kills fishing so much the better IMO.

[mythical.6315]

31 minutes ago, MonsterTeddy.6135 said:

On the contrary, if we're talking about "intention", I don't think the intention was for a one-off group event to be more rewarding than the map meta-event by hopping instances.

Edit: Unless any of us here are devs, we can't say for sure after all

Outside of a few metas in the game, a lot of other things are more rewarding. Node farming is more rewarding than the Canthan metas. 

[Cronospere.8143]

So if i read your post the problem isnt the leviathan event. But that a map closes too quickly and doesnt get filled up. 

And that fishing party doesnt get transfered if you switch instance. 

Lastly that fishing isnt rewarding enough. 

 

Ambergriss is something which is needed a lot right now, lot of people also collect them for their own legendaries, because the fishing collections in my opinion are not a good source for ambergriss at all.. there is too much rng with that. 

[Garrison Storm.3046]

7 minutes ago, Cronospere.8143 said:

And that fishing party doesnt get transfered if you switch instance

 

More specifically, being forced out of the map; I can appreciate the buff not sticking as an individual bounces around from map to map, and prefer it disappear when you do voluntarily leave an instance, versus implementing some kind of timer for the buff. 

This force-out happens frequently throughout several maps, not just Seitung.  Meta fails, close the map.  Whether you care about Fishing or not, this consequence doesn't seem to be reasonable given the time it takes to max the buff... it becomes very frustrating.   

 

I guess only the fishermen themselves are likely to notice and perceive this problem.. I don't know the technical constraints for transferring the buff on a force out, but would certainly ease frustrations for those who do care, at seemingly little consequence to the others. 

[Khisanth.2948]

2 hours ago, MonsterTeddy.6135 said:

A lot worse in the sense that it affects other instances since it involves hopping between maps and instances to get one where the Levi event is up. Map close countdowns often happen soon after a large levi farm squad enters and leaves the map. It rarely refills afterwards especially if you're on during less populated hours.

Which would only affect people who only does fishing on one of two maps(the farming actually jumps between Seitung and New Kaineng) and for more than 1 hour a day since the countdown is for 1 hour

The stacks give up to 300 FP but realistically only 250 of that matters since you get 50 from the first stack.

Has there been any data on how much impact FP actually has? If it uses the MF formula 250 FP would be 25% but that depends on the base rate. As the the saying goes, double of nothing is still nothing.

 

[Luvok.5697]

You actually need people to fish to spawn Leviathan, then a group comes in and kills him then ports to a new map instance which actually causes the original to close and causes the people fishing to lose their stacks too. I can't imagine the devs want the fight repeated over and over by using a map instance glitch. Right now Leviathan farming is possibly the most profitable thing in the game but it's based on map instance jumping which I doubt is what the devs want.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, MonsterTeddy.6135 said:

On the contrary, if we're talking about "intention", I don't think the intention was for a one-off group event to be more rewarding than the map meta-event by hopping instances.

Edit: Unless any of us here are devs, we can't say for sure after all

That's the thing though ... I don't see why it couldn't be intentional. If it wasn't intentional, why would Anet Leviathan spawn this way? They actually went out of their way to enable players to spawn it vs. a timer. I mean, the complaint that people leave the map and it's empty ... that doesn't mean much ... that happens all the time all over the place. There is a mechanic in place to deal with it. Why is THIS map so exceptional?

Edited May 12, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[MonsterTeddy.6135]

43 minutes ago, Cronospere.8143 said:

So if i read your post the problem isnt the leviathan event. But that a map closes too quickly and doesnt get filled up. 

And that fishing party doesnt get transfered if you switch instance. 

Lastly that fishing isnt rewarding enough. 

True, it is multiple problems at once. Especially the map closing problems, which is prominent when a large levi squad enters and leaves the map, since the EoD map population cap is so small. At least those caused by meta squads are predictable to an extent as the metas have a schedule.

Outside of the collections, fishing is fairly rewarding at the moment because it's being carried by Ambergris. The worth for lower rarity stuff has fallen a lot after the initial release (as expected tbh). Lack of sinks for Ambergris outside gen 3 crafting is driving the value down since it's so easy to farm ambergris from spamming leviathan farms now. It is my opinion that this was unintended, otherwise there's no reason to just give a measly 1 Ambergris per day from the Seitung meta. If left like this, it'd pretty much kill fishing in the long run after people are done with their collections.

5 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Which would only affect people who only does fishing on one of two maps(the farming actually jumps between Seitung and New Kaineng) and for more than 1 hour a day since the countdown is for 1 hour

The stacks give up to 300 FP but realistically only 250 of that matters since you get 50 from the first stack.

Has there been any data on how much impact FP actually has? If it uses the MF formula 250 FP would be 25% but that depends on the base rate. As the the saying goes, double of nothing is still nothing.

I can't say for the majority, but I am aware of people who spend at least more than an hour fishing. It is a low intensity farm where ppl can afford to afk or multitask without inconveniencing others. Stack up the fishing party buff and farm at your own leisure. According to peuresearchcenter, Kaineng and Seitung are some of the better areas for fishing gph for both day and night cycles.

As far as I'm aware of, more data is still needed to really determine how much FP affects the rates. However, there are certain thresholds (seems to be 875 and above) where the catch rates for the lower rarity fishes (whites and blues) are made negligible. Though this differs for each map and fishing hole. For example, you'll barely get any blue fish from Seitung Offshore nodes at 875+ FP.

[MonsterTeddy.6135]

33 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's the thing though ... I don't see why it couldn't be intentional. If it wasn't intentional, why would Anet Leviathan spawn this way? They actually went out of their way to enable players to spawn it vs. a timer. I mean, the complaint that people leave the map and it's empty ... that doesn't mean much ... that happens all the time all over the place. There is a mechanic in place to deal with it. Why is THIS map so exceptional?

Considering how leviathan was always spawned that way since release and ambergris wasn't included until the EoD rewards update, and only once per day in the map meta event... I'm inclined to think that its repeatable nature was unintended.

Please read the thread, I'm talking about how it's affecting those who need to stay in the same instance or lose their work. In many cases, it doesn't happen often enough to warrant concern about. But the map closing problem is currently being exacerbated by the passage of large levi farm squads in and out of different instances outside of meta schedule, where map closing would be more predictable and more contained.

Another thing that makes it worse is how fishing parties on LFG commonly get used as "taxis" for the levi farm squads to hop instances. From my experience, it happens almost every day when I set up a fishing squad in Seitung or Kaineng.

Edited May 12, 2022 by MonsterTeddy.6135
small edit for clarity

[Silent.6137]

Maybe as a solution to prevent unintentional losing of fishing stacks:

1. You do not lose fishing stacks when changing instances - same as Jade Power Charges, which used to be an annoyance.
2. Fishing stacks will only be reset if logged out longer than 10 minutes ( for DCs, slow loading, etc.)

Limit amount of ambergris available from leviathan farming per account.

 

[Aridon.8362]

You know initially I was surprised to see how many people willingly put themselves through literally slave labor through the ambergris farm, I tried it once and after two leviathans I was done.

 

I can imagine the lengths people go through to get what they want in the game.

 

There's people here who literally have 10+ accounts, just to get rich off of them. Mighty Teapot I remember at one point showed how he gets 4k gold every two months just from the login rewards of his 40 accounts.

[Cuks.8241]

19 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Maybe as a solution to prevent unintentional losing of fishing stacks:

1. You do not lose fishing stacks when changing instances - same as Jade Power Charges, which used to be an annoyance.
2. Fishing stacks will only be reset if logged out longer than 10 minutes ( for DCs, slow loading, etc.)

Limit amount of ambergris available from leviathan farming per account.

 

I dont really fish. Like ever. But I'm guessing that the buff has a timer. If it has, I dont see any reason why the buff shouldn't stay with you while changing instances, maps. 

[Caliboom.3218]

1 hour ago, patton the great.7126 said:

Ya let's kill one of the very few reasons to visit the new maps.....hahahahahaha. DO YOU SEE ANET. THIS IS WHAT YOU WASTED AN ENTIRE EXPACK ON. PEOPLE LIKE THIS RIGHT HERE. Yet, the wvw and spvp population received a swift kick in the backside with 0 content. We'd have taken 1 new map, but instead you cater to these spoiled brats!

And this is why I dislike wvwers. Someone understandably asks for a nerf to an unintended farm and you immediately start calling PvErs "spoiled brats".

[Freya.9075]

Anet release new content-players want more rewards. Anet proceeds to give more rewards-players complains and want them to nerf it. Amazing

[Caliboom.3218]

Just now, Freya.9075 said:

Anet release new content-players want more rewards. Anet proceeds to give more rewards-players complains and want them to nerf it. Amazing

The issue isn't that, the issue is the farm being clearly unintended, I highly doubt Anet wanted people to be hopping instances to farm something.

[Freya.9075]

Just now, Caliboom.3218 said:

The issue isn't that, the issue is the farm being clearly unintended, I highly doubt Anet wanted people to be hopping instances to farm something.

That may be the case. And if that is so, they will change it rather fast. Like the other unintended farms that has happened before. 

[Hashberry.4510]

‘Rather fast’ is doing a hell of a lot of work here.

[Donari.5237]

2 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I dont really fish. Like ever. But I'm guessing that the buff has a timer. If it has, I dont see any reason why the buff shouldn't stay with you while changing instances, maps. 

There is no timer.  The restriction is that you lose all your stacks immediately if you are off a skiff for too long (ie 10 seconds or so, maybe less).  I have been able to rush from one body of water to another to respawn my skiff before my stacks wore off, and even waypointed inside one map yesterday without losing stacks thanks to my fast load times.  I haven't tried popping to a new fast loading map to see if they'd stick through that.  I would prefer that the stacks stuck around a lot longer.  Ten minutes as suggested above seems fair.  That's long enough to go help someone if they ask for aid in Map chat, or to swap maps or to get to another body of water without fretting (eg in Gendarren where the two types of fishing pools are separated by a land bridge).

I didn't realize there was a leviathan farm going on.  I spent a good while in Seitung last night working on Avid Seitung and there was a leviathan fight while I was there followed by the Aether meta, without any hint of the map closing.  But as it is described I do see the problem -- and also that I'd better get my warrior to a lev kill asap for my weapon collection in case ANet does in fact make it unlikely for people to bother killing levs.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Donari.5237
The forums think I can't set my own paragraph breaks.

[Silent.6137]

25 minutes ago, patton the great.7126 said:

Truth can be a hard pill to swallow. Let me see, this is now 2 expansion packs worth of PvE content, more or less void of PvP/WvW content. 2 entire Content dumps. Rather than be thankfull for what has been received you see a glutton thread like this asking for removal of rewards from content that took precedence over 2 "cornerstones" of the game. This is why I hate PvE gluttons. They are like spoiled brats at Christmas, Always wanting more more more, more cookies and more presents. 

First and foremost, Anet is a business. As any smart businesses should, it caters to contents that majority of its customer base use. That's PvE. PvP/WvW is not ignored by the constant updates and the upcoming Alliances for WvW. If that mode of game-play only attracts a small proportion of the players, then it's reasonable to expect very little focus on it as well.

Also, why would players who are only interested in PvE advocate changes for game modes that they don't use? I do lots of WvW but very little PvP. And would love to see more done for WvW. However, I'm realistic enough to expect an extremely small percentage of their resources dedicated to it.

[Caliboom.3218]

41 minutes ago, patton the great.7126 said:

Truth can be a hard pill to swallow. Let me see, this is now 2 expansion packs worth of PvE content, more or less void of PvP/WvW content. 2 entire Content dumps. Rather than be thankfull for what has been received you see a glutton thread like this asking for removal of rewards from content that took precedence over 2 "cornerstones" of the game. This is why I hate PvE gluttons. They are like spoiled brats at Christmas, Always wanting more more more, more cookies and more presents. 

Stop avoiding my point, I'm 90% sure Anet doesn't want people constantly hopping instances to farm it. Rewards are good, but they should be obtained the intended way.

And this is funny to see considering wvw complain about literally everything, just complaining and more complaining.