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3 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

Stop avoiding my point, I'm 90% sure Anet doesn't want people constantly hopping instances to farm it. Rewards are good, but they should be obtained the intended way.

And this is funny to see considering wvw complain about literally everything, just complaining and more complaining.

How dare a community that gets literally nothing but nerfs complain.

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Recently, the Leviathan event has been getting a lot of attention as a mindless ambergris farm as it gives ambergris per kill, instead of once per day like from the Seitung meta event. This has led to

If it kills fishing so much the better IMO.

It literally says on the fishing power tooltip that increasing FP increases the chances of catching higher rarity fish. The point about FP requirement for fishing in holes becomes irrelevant when you'

WvW is pretty much like the Leviathan event, except without Ambergris or any other meaningful rewards, varying in difficulty every week between Tequatl and Dragon's End launch meta, and being like that for years now.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

Anet release new content-players want more rewards. Anet proceeds to give more rewards-players complains and want them to nerf it. Amazing

Changes sometimes have unintended consequences, even if well intentioned.

Edited by Gibson.4036
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I refunded the expansion because "leviathan" was apparently all people were doing. So many events in the first two maps kept failing. I was not on at a strange hour either. Probably going to wait till it goes on sale.

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3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Changes sometimes have unintended consequences, even if well intentioned.

Yes, I do agree with that. Didn’t this happen with world boss event? Then they fixed it so ppl couldn’t jump instances to exploit it? I’m assuming this is what they’ll do to this farm as well. Wether or not it’s intentional we will find out when they do. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, MonsterTeddy.6135 said:

Considering how leviathan was always spawned that way since release and ambergris wasn't included until the EoD rewards update, and only once per day in the map meta event... I'm inclined to think that its repeatable nature was unintended.

I don't believe that matters much to be honest. Obviously Anet want people to get these rewards and craft Leg weapons ... or they wouldn't have increased them in the first place. In otherwords, I don't believe the rewards an event gives is a reason to change what we are talking about here. People are doing the same work to get those rewards, whether they chain an event or not. 

Quote

Please read the thread, I'm talking about how it's affecting those who need to stay in the same instance or lose their work. In many cases, it doesn't happen often enough to warrant concern about. But the map closing problem is currently being exacerbated by the passage of large levi farm squads in and out of different instances outside of meta schedule, where map closing would be more predictable and more contained.

Another thing that makes it worse is how fishing parties on LFG commonly get used as "taxis" for the levi farm squads to hop instances. From my experience, it happens almost every day when I set up a fishing squad in Seitung or Kaineng.

I read the thread ... and I'm challenging this idea that you 'lose your work' because the map becomes less populated. What 'work' are you referring to? how is it 'lost' because people come an go in that particular instance? I've never had that problem. You realize that these instances don't simply exist and people can jump between them right? They spawn based on player access demand to those instances. What is MORE likely is that if an instance exists, it's NOT full when these farmers can get in and do the event so when they leave, it goes BACK to it's 'regular' population level. The only other case is when they enter the map, one is instanced for them because the others are full ... which wouldn't affect you in the first place. 

The bottomline here is that these instance populations fluctuate, regardless of what people are doing in them. So to justify a nerf to an event because of that is trivial. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't believe that matters much to be honest. Obviously Anet want people to get these rewards and craft Leg weapons ... or they wouldn't have increased them in the first place. In otherwords, I don't believe the rewards an event gives is a reason to change what we are talking about here. People are doing the same work to get those rewards, whether they chain an event or not. 

I read the thread ... and I'm challenging this idea that you 'lose your work' because the map becomes less populated. What 'work' are you referring to? how is it 'lost' because people come an go in that particular instance? I've never had that problem. You realize that these instances don't simply exist and people can jump between them right? They spawn based on player access demand to those instances. What is MORE likely is that if an instance exists, it's NOT full when these farmers can get in and do the event so when they leave, it goes BACK to it's 'regular' population level. The only other case is when they enter the map, one is instanced for them because the others are full ... which wouldn't affect you in the first place. 

The bottomline here is that these instance populations fluctuate, regardless of what people are doing in them. So to justify a nerf to an event because of that is trivial. 

When a bunch of people leave, the map closes. If a large number of people are leviathan-farming, and then they exit en masse, the map is likely to close. Then the fishers lose their stacks.

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9 hours ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

And this is why I dislike wvwers. Someone understandably asks for a nerf to an unintended farm and you immediately start calling PvErs "spoiled brats".

Please don't bundle us all with kittens like him.😓

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

When a bunch of people leave, the map closes. If a large number of people are leviathan-farming, and then they exit en masse, the map is likely to close. Then the fishers lose their stacks.

Well, hold on ... it's not THAT simple. people leaving a map doesn't necessarily result in it closing, especially if there is enough 'anchor' of fishers to prevent that. So how did map spawn in the first place ?

If it spawned on the fishers, then it shouldn't close if people come in and then leave it. If it spawned on the leviathan runners, the fishers weren't there in the first place. Something about the claims OP is making doesn't make sense.  IF there are enough people for the instance to exist when Lev farmers enter, there should be enough people to keep it open when they leave.

Maybe the real problem here is that the length of time that people are fishing is MUCH longer than the average amount of time people stay in a map, causing the instance population to dip below whatever the sustainable instance population limit  is in the first place ... which means it has NOTHING to do with Lev farmers. 

 

TLDR: no one should be jumping to the conclusion map closures are happening because of Lev Farming 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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30 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

TLDR: no one should be jumping to the conclusion map closures are happening because of Lev Farming 

Just to add that even if it's true the mass exodus from the farming causes map closures, you'll still have 1 hour with the stacks before forcefully relocated. It's only a problem if you had planned on spending a few more hours on same map fishing.

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Nerfing(or fixing) it won't fix the real problem with the stacks either. It might do something about the price of ambergris.  Currently fishing in Grotto nodes but there is no way to swap between Warden's Folly and Melandru's Hope/Lake Lutgardis areas without losing stacks except maybe with Teleport to Friend and/or people idling around as stack placeholders in each area. Another "fun" issue, once you are done with your day/night fish and you are waiting for the other cycle, you get to choose between idling and lose time for your food buff or logging out and losing the stacks.

Of course there is a very simple solution that is right there in the name, Fishing Party Catches. Also MMORPG. 😉

Should fishing be a group activity? That is a different discussion but while we are left to guess if the loot is intentional or not there is no need to guess about how the stacks are gained.

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4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, hold on ... it's not THAT simple. people leaving a map doesn't necessarily result in it closing, especially if there is enough 'anchor' of fishers to prevent that. So how did map spawn in the first place ?

If it spawned on the fishers, then it shouldn't close if people come in and then leave it. If it spawned on the leviathan runners, the fishers weren't there in the first place. Something about the claims OP is making doesn't make sense.  IF there are enough people for the instance to exist when Lev farmers enter, there should be enough people to keep it open when they leave.

Maybe the real problem here is that the length of time that people are fishing is MUCH longer than the average amount of time people stay in a map, causing the instance population to dip below whatever the sustainable instance population limit  is in the first place ... which means it has NOTHING to do with Lev farmers. 

 

TLDR: no one should be jumping to the conclusion map closures are happening because of Lev Farming 

I said people *en masse* leaving a map causes it to close, not "people leaving a map".

 

I have no idea what makes a new map spawn. It is also irrelevant. The problem is not new maps spawning. The problem is maps closing when a flood of players leave and people are still active on the map, with map-based buffs applied. Theoretically, a large number of players chasing leviathans could cause a *series of maps* to close, in a chain sequence. I know closing chain sequences occur as I have experienced this situation more than once.

 

You seem to be saying it's fine for one set of players to get what they want (to go from map to map doing a leviathan farm) but it's not okay for another set of players to get what they want (a stable map on which to fish).

 

The problem is fishing stacks not being retained between instances of the same map. If that occurred the problem would disappear. The problem *is not* the players fishing.

 

We can put fishing stacks into a "buff that is related to activities" set. Also in this set is any contribution proportion that players have made to a meta. And those also disappear when map closures happen (e.g. DWC).

 

The loss of fishing stacks due to Anet's decision to close a map is the latest implementation of the lack of code that ensures buffs are retained if players swap from one map's IP to another IP *of the same map*.

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7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The idea that Leviathan Farmers are to blame for instances that don't have enough people in them to sustain them existing is absurd. Done. 

I did not say that.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

I did not say that.

OK ... I didn't quote you so ... I'm not saying you did. 🤔🤷‍♂️

Again, I'm refuting the idea that Leviathan Farmers are the cause of  the OP's map closing problems. If you aren't having that conversation, you aren't talking to me. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... I didn't quote you so ... ?

Again, I'm refuting the idea that Leviathan Farmers are the cause of  the OP's map closing problems. If you aren't having that conversation, you aren't talking to me. 

You cannot say for sure that they are not. The OP has suggested that the mass exodus of leviathan farmers is a cause. We know from years of past experience that maps close when a large number (we do not know the minimum number, nor do we know if it is an exact number or a percentage) of players leave. The most recent example for me has been chain-closing Kaineng maps, post blackout meta.

 

I have pointed out that the problem is not players leaving or staying, but that buff stacks are not retained between instances of the same map. If these buff stacks were retained, there would be no problem (except for chain-closing maps, which are very annoying).

 

Until Anet removes that problem, or changes the way it handles the trigger for a map to close, then any activity that encourages a large number of players to map hop is potentially a problem to players building up stacks of participation.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Hesione.9412 said:

You cannot say for sure that they are not. The OP has suggested that the mass exodus of leviathan farmers is a cause. We know from years of past experience that maps close when a large number (we do not know the minimum number, nor do we know if it is an exact number or a percentage) of players leave. The most recent example for me has been chain-closing Kaineng maps, post blackout meta.

 

I have pointed out that the problem is not players leaving or staying, but that buff stacks are not retained between instances of the same map. If these buff stacks were retained, there would be no problem (except for chain-closing maps, which are very annoying).

 

Until Anet removes that problem, or changes the way it handles the trigger for a map to close, then any activity that encourages a large number of players to map hop is potentially a problem to players building up stacks of participation.

Here is what I do know ... it's absurd for someone to suggest Anet change the game because they SPECULATE the cause, especially when that cause doesn't make sense with what we DO know about how map instances work. If X people are enough to have a instance open, it's enough to keep it from closing, regardless of how many have come and gone during the time X people have been there. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Here is what I do know ... it's absurd for someone to suggest Anet change the game because they SPECULATE the cause. 

You are speculating that is not the cause. Both are speculations. There is evidence from other maps that a (unknown minimum) quantity of players leaving a map IP will trigger a close of that IP.

 

I've also pointed out a solution that will solve the problem. You could keep your leviathan farm, and people could keep their participation stacks. Win/win.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

You are speculating that is not the cause. Both are speculations.

OK so just to be clear:

1. OP can speculate the cause of his map closing and suggest nerfs to that ... you don't have a problem with that. 

2. I can speculate why he's wrong and thus, the nerfs aren't justified ... you argue with me, even though you also don't think we need to nerf Leviathan Farm. 

 

GOTCHA!  😉👍

 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK so just to be clear:

1. OP can speculate the cause of his map closing and suggest nerfs to that ... you don't have a problem with that. 

2. I can speculate why he's wrong and thus, the nerfs aren't justified ... you argue with me.

 

GOTCHA! 

You have selectively quoted me. Congratulations, you have managed a gotcha by selectively quoting me.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dante.1508 said:

Every expansion people want the nice stuff nerfed to please themselves.. Just to be mean.

the problem is not the people who are upset for having their toes stepped on. the problem is that we have nice thing that people exploit to such excessive extend that it starts causing problems, and anet has to step in and take the nice thing away.

Edited by Mutisija.5017
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5 minutes ago, Mutisija.5017 said:

the problem is not the people who are upset having their toes stepped on. the problem is that we have nice thing that people exploit to such excessive extend that it starts causing problems, and anet has to step in and take the nice thing away.

How is it an exploit, its just people doing the thing as designed because Anet makes everything a grind.. Obviously people will farm the thing to get the items easier.. If Anet would stop adding grind to literally everything it wouldn't be an issue.

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An option, in addition to retaining map activity buffs, is to nerf the number of players needed to kill a leviathan. Let it be 5-players. If only 5 people can over-fish, then 5 people should be able to kill the resulting leviathan.

 

This should hopefully reduce the number of closing maps, as it won't need a lot of players to enter a map to kill the leviathan. It also enables the people fishing to be the ones that killed it.

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