Ranger is Depression

[Absinthey.5340]

22 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Also in the spirit of the OP, another random nerf a lot of us forgot about: switching our Shouts into Commands. Why? Why ANet? Everyone else gets shouts. We get ours taken away for some... RP reason? It certainly can't be the uber single-condition cleansing power that came from a rune set that still exists in the game (alongside every other class' shouts).

 

I actually never even understood why they made that change. Like you said... so Rangers cant use Rune of the Trooper? That could be the only feasible reason they changed our shouts to commands. Just feels like a sloppily half-baked idea that just ended up being a nerf in the end.

 

Funny really, because Rune of the Trooper was really bad for Ranger and hardly offered enough cleansing to warrant even using it. But offering more build variety seems to be the opposite direction Anet's design philosophy is headed. 

 

Ranger being limited to relying on Wilderness Survival for reliable cleansing = Depression

[conquistator.6549]

From a ranger main with 5000+ hours playing primarily in WvW mostly in zerg scenarios:

Anet totally ignore every single suggestion from the community and choose to balance the class based on incompetent team that doesn’t have a clue on how to play ranger which is definitely going to be the case going forward still. And despite all the years I've been trying to make ranger somewhat work with the group I play with, I have to say that with the recent events I have given up on this class if not the game as a whole.

Yes, ranger is depression but hey anet did succeed in creating a game with the philosophy of bringing the profession not the players, so there’s that!

[Erkki.9145]

I don't understand why they are pushing terrible melee weapons to a ranger...

[voltaicbore.8012]

15 hours ago, Absinthey.5340 said:

Funny really, because Rune of the Trooper was really bad for Ranger and hardly offered enough cleansing to warrant even using it.

That's really why it's so puzzling/insulting - the trooper runes ('soldier' in spvp) were a pretty weak choice. It simply offered a way to break free of Wilderness Survival cleanses by getting a somewhat kitten yet barely functional replacement. It's just the millionth little thing they've taken from ranger for no real reason.

Grouch's statement that the OWP nerf was intended to make it more 'consistent' is also a slap to the face. I won't call it an outright lie though, because it's actually just as "consistent" as the 300s CD traits that are still around - consistently useless.

[anduriell.6280]

On 7/5/2022 at 4:56 AM, Absinthey.5340 said:

From a PvP perspective, I wonder how the post HoT Bunker Druid would fare in today's meta? It would not even be meta! Yet the nerf remains when they have made things like Firebrand, Scourge, Tempest and Mechanist which are even more oppressive than bunker druid ever was.

The funny thing Bunker Druid was never an oppressively build it was just unKillable. It is not like you could not take a node from them because every time they went into stealth they lost a portion of it. 

It was just Anet at the time was having a lot of trouble with bunker chrono, a build which was really an oppressively build but they focus into "nerfing all bunker because faster kill time".

But obviously the only one ended up nerfed (for a long time at least) was the ranger (Druid in this case).  Same as you can see now with the "trade offs" and "removing the unique effects" trend which only seems to be important when we are talking about the ranger but not when it's a mechanics or an FB. The sheer hypocrisy. 

[kharmin.7683]

On 7/13/2022 at 6:02 AM, Erkki.9145 said:

I don't understand why they are pushing terrible melee weapons to a ranger...

If you're referring to untamed it is because when the expansion was announced, the ranger forum was covered with threads requesting the GW1 bunny thumper build.  It's yet another case of not being careful for what one wishes for with Anet.

[Abyssisis.3971]

2 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

If you're referring to untamed it is because when the expansion was announced, the ranger forum was covered with threads requesting the GW1 bunny thumper build.  It's yet another case of not being careful for what one wishes for with Anet.

I hope those people quit playing ranger and never put forward another stupid request.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

I hope those people quit playing ranger and never put forward another stupid request.

Bad implementation of the idea doesn't make the idea itself bad. Requesting the thematical return of the bunny thumper has been totally fine, it's just that Anet's interpretation of it just didn't work out.

[Abyssisis.3971]

5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Bad implementation of the idea doesn't make the idea itself bad. Requesting the thematical return of the bunny thumper has been totally fine, it's just that Anet's interpretation of it just didn't work out.

Different games, different mechanics. If people thought it was going to be the same then they thought wrong. 

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Different games, different mechanics. If people thought it was going to be the same then they thought wrong. 

Obviously, yeah. But I don't think most people requesting the return of the bunny thumper meant that they want a carbon copy of it in this game and expected more of a modernised interpretation of it's theme and feel.

The general gameplay idea of having the ranger pinning down a target with CC for his pet to brutally maul is fun and could have worked in this game. Untamed didn't really hit the mark for many players when it came to this (though Anet definitely tried to bring some of it's feeling back, like the trait ferocious symbiosis which kinda resembles what the old skill rampage as one did), but this doesn't make the idea of wanting bunny thumper reimagined bad.

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[Abyssisis.3971]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Obviously, yeah. But I don't think most people requesting the return of the bunny thumper meant that they want a carbon copy of it in this game and expected more of a modernised interpretation of it's theme and feel.

The general gamepay idea of having the ranger pinning down a target with CC for his pet to brutally maul is fun and could have worked in this game. Untamed didn't really hit the mark for many players when it came to this (though Anet definitely tried to bring some of it's feeling back, like the trait ferocious symbiosis which kinda resembles what the old skill rampage as one did), but this doesn't make the idea of wanting bunny thumper reimagined bad.

 

How long have warriors been asking for hammer reworks for? Pretty much since CC damage changes? And people thought this would be good on ranger??  🤦‍♂️ Did they just completely forget about the poorly implemented ranger pet AI and magically thought bunny thumper would fix it? Combining both of these was always going to be a bad idea.

[Kodama.6453]

19 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

How long have warriors been asking for hammer reworks for? Pretty much since CC damage changes? And people thought this would be good on ranger??  🤦‍♂️ Did they just completely forget about the poorly implemented ranger pet AI and magically thought bunny thumper would fix it? Combining both of these was always going to be a bad idea.

CC abilities just and only have the damage removed on the hit that delivers the CC. Scrapper's thunderclap, for example, still got to keep all it's damage from the lightning field left behind, since these are seperated strikes from the one delivering the stun (and the hit stunning you never dealt any damage in the first place).

Considering that the concept for bunny thumper usually has been that the ranger delivers the CC and then the pet delivers the damage as a follow up, there wouldn't have been any lost damage on this CC ability, since they are 2 seperated strikes.

About the pet AI thing: You really can't imagine how they could have made the pet hit here? Untamed also introduced the mechanic of letting the pet shadowstep on top of a target. If the ranger would have got some combo attacks, for example the hammer is knocking down an enemy and that triggers an attack that makes your pet shadowstep on the enemy and deal damage to them, you really think this would have missed because of AI? On a CCed target? They could have also made the pet attack triggered from this combo scale with the stats of the ranger.

Seems you just lack some imagination in that department for me.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

CC abilities just and only have the damage removed on the hit that delivers the CC. Scrapper's thunderclap, for example, still got to keep all it's damage from the lightning field left behind, since these are seperated strikes from the one delivering the stun (and the hit stunning you never dealt any damage in the first place).

Considering that the concept for bunny thumper usually has been that the ranger delivers the CC and then the pet delivers the damage as a follow up, this ability wouldn't have lost any damage on this CC ability, since they are 2 seperated strikes.

About the pet AI thing: You really can't imagine how they could have made the pet hit here? Untamed also introduced the mechanic of letting the pet shadowstep on top of a target. If the ranger would have got some combo attacks, for example the hammer is knocking down an enemy and that triggers an attack that makes your pet shadowstep on the enemy and deal damage to them, you really think this would have missed because of AI? On a CCed target? They could have also made the pet attack triggered from this combo scale with the stats of the ranger.

Seems you just lack some imagination in that department for me.

Imagination wars 2. The only place ranger pets AI works because we added a shadow step.  👍 

[kharmin.7683]

22 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Obviously, yeah. But I don't think most people requesting the return of the bunny thumper meant that they want a carbon copy of it in this game

 

 

I think that is exactly what many wanted if I recall the threads that were being tossed about back then.

[Zyreva.1078]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:45 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

CC abilities just and only have the damage removed on the hit that delivers the CC. Scrapper's thunderclap, for example, still got to keep all it's damage from the lightning field left behind, since these are seperated strikes from the one delivering the stun (and the hit stunning you never dealt any damage in the first place).

Well, they did remove the dmg from both hits on axe 4, even tho only the second one pulls (while also being the worst pull in the entire game) ...

[Kodama.6453]

15 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Well, they did remove the dmg from both hits on axe 4, even tho only the second one pulls (while also being the worst pull in the entire game) ...

That sucks, wasn't aware of that. Makes you wonder how this ability is coded, tho, since the ability tooltip also just shows one damage value instead of 2 different for hitting on the way out and the way back. So maybe that is why, it may be coded as the same "hit" in this case, which makes it lose all it's damage.

Definitely should change, in my opinion, but I can't come up with any other explanation why it ended up like that.

[Bast.7253]

Untamed is definitely one of the most underwhelming specs I've ever played. But hey, people got their nostalgia bunny thumper bs. 

Ranger in general has always felt pretty lackluster to me. Druid was fun but really only for healing and pve. Soulbeast is just nice because of high damage. I want a shapeshifting/shroud type ranger spec. 😞

[Zyreva.1078]

21 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

That sucks, wasn't aware of that. Makes you wonder how this ability is coded, tho, since the ability tooltip also just shows one damage value instead of 2 different for hitting on the way out and the way back. So maybe that is why, it may be coded as the same "hit" in this case, which makes it lose all it's damage.

Definitely should change, in my opinion, but I can't come up with any other explanation why it ended up like that.

The tooltip displays the dmg of one hit tho, not both combined, so that's a very unlikely explanation. They just weren't very consistent with their changes, overlooked many things and never followed up. In their mind axe 4 = cc = 0 dmg.

Edited July 19, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Jianyu.7065]

It's not strange that all the other class specific forums have their own version of this discussion, is it?

[Beddo.1907]

This is literally a vent thread.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

It's not strange that all the other class specific forums have their own version of this discussion, is it?

No.  It's not strange at all.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 7/19/2022 at 8:01 AM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

The tooltip displays the dmg of one hit tho, not both combined, so that's a very unlikely explanation. They just weren't very consistent with their changes, overlooked many things and never followed up. In their mind axe 4 = cc = 0 dmg.

Yeah, it's very weird skill. 

I want to go with since it has a channel bar, it uses the same coefficient for each hit, so it may not be possible to separate damage in that manner.  

Which would be separate from the two physical hits it deals; basically the pull component only on one, or if you use sharpening stone it'll produce two bleeds.  

Edited July 25, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

4 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

It's not strange that all the other class specific forums have their own version of this discussion, is it?

But at least (most) other professions have something to look forward to. Until the emergency patch (which they did because they didn't do the math and too late realized ranger had LITERALLY 0 GOOD PVE OPTIONS POST PATCH), ranger has basically had bug fixes that weren't relevant (i.e. the 2 in the June 28th patch, fixing tool tips for the murellow and the arcdotus, 2 pets that nobody in serious play uses let alone care about) or nerfs (i.e. Druid losing 10 man might in that bulk nerf, or even nerfing druid's nearly perfectly balanced might generation on the 28th). We haven't had anything good until the emergency patch, and we're even still expecting nerfs because it's too good to be true. The only professions I'd argue that are worse off than ranger are ele (viable ele spec detected, nerfs erected) or warrior ('let's give warrior a new role! But also kill off the old one that was the only reason why anyone took it!').

[Absinthey.5340]

Ranger

• Spirits: Fixed a bug that caused spirit boons to be granted in a circle around the ranger instead of the spirit.

 

lol

[anduriell.6280]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:45 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

CC abilities just and only have the damage removed on the hit that delivers the CC. Scrapper's thunderclap, for example, still got to keep all it's damage from the lightning field left behind, since these are seperated strikes from the one delivering the stun (and the hit stunning you never dealt any damage in the first place).

Meanwhile ranger path of scars got nerfed in both hits to 0 damage, on the normal projectile and int he returning pull. Remember while engi is the favorite developer pet, ranger has been neglected and despised by Anet devs for 9 years. 

Ranger is depression because Anet want it that way. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by anduriell.6280