Bad Lore Follow-up

[edelweiss.2637]

(Sorry bad english)

So i recently brought all the expansions and was doing the story, However since buying the expansion Don't give me access to living world i can't follow the lore of the game.

 

why there's a paywall inside the expansion i paid? is like I'm buying half the expansion. i can't understand the lore cause there's a massive gap in what i can access.

 

I'm very disappointed that i can't see all the lore of the game when i brought all the expansions.

 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I'm always sad about that. 

Other gaming companies like Nintendo can sell games with 5h of content for 60 bucks. 

But when an MMO company sells a game with 1000 hours of content for 15 bucks and then asked to you to pay like 5 dollars for multiple hours of extra content it is not OK? 

Why can console gamers afford a new game every week but MMO players apparently can't. 

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Edited May 13, 2022 by DanAlcedo.3281

[AgentMoore.9453]

Just now, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Other gaming companies like Nintendo can sell games with 5h of content for 60 bucks. 

But when an MMO company sells a game with 1000 hours on content for 15 bucks and then asked to you to pay like 5 dollars for multiple hours of extra content is not OK? 

Other gaming companies package their products better so you can see what you're going to get before you spend money on them. GuildWars2 sells a 'complete' package that's missing huge chunks of the game.

You're right that paying for LW is fine, but man do they not present it effectively. I hope that's something they intend to fix this year.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

1 minute ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Other gaming companies package their products better so you can see what you're going to get before you spend money on them. GuildWars2 sells a 'complete' package that's missing huge chunks of the game.

You're right that paying for LW is fine, but man do they not present it effectively. I hope that's something they intend to fix this year.

Kinda true. 

But does it really needs fixing? 

If OP lives in a developed country, his pay should be high enough to be able to pay for all LW episodes in a single day. 

Maybe 2 if it's a low paying job. 

 

Imagine needing to work for a maximum of 2 days to get thousands of hours of content. 

What a deal. 

[Vayne.8563]

The Path of Fire expansion is $30 but it's been on sale as low as $15.  For that $30 you're getting 9 zones, that's five for PoF, and 4 for HoT. You're getting 18 elite specs.  You're getting access to five mounts, gliding and all the features of guild halls. You're getting 2 stories, mini games and hundreds of hours of content in general, including raids. 

This is a very very cheap price. If you played WoW for 3 months, you'd be spending $50 or whatever on the game itself, plus $15 a month for the 2nd two months. That is WOW would cost you about $80 not $30 for that same entry level price.

 

The real issue is the communication around the existence of living world, rather than the actual living world itself.  It should be better communicated. But pricewise?

Even with EoD, there are still 4 zones, 9 elite specs, a full story, fishing, skills, a siege turtle mount, and strike missions (ncluding strike mission CMs) with more coming.   It seems reasonable enough for $30 for me.  Plus achievements, skins and access to the new living world which if you keep playing you'll end up getting free.

 

At the end of the day, the price is more than just fair, it's ridiculously fair.  If only Anet were more transparent in what it would take to get everything.

[Batel.9206]

1 hour ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

You're right that paying for LW is fine, but man do they not present it effectively. I hope that's something they intend to fix this year.

THIS. This is the problem. Paying for the Living World seasons is fine. The fact that ArenaNet doesn't actually specify that you have to pay for the Living World seasons when buying the expansions is not fine.

[Gibson.4036]

It’s presentation, and the fact that they put the main story in the LW. If they had focused the main story lines in the expansions, and had put discrete side stories in LW it wouldn’t feel like you bought a book only to find you have access to every other chapter.

Sticking mounts and ascended trinkets in the LW chapters to entice people to buy them would have been fine. It’s the weird gating of the story that’s really jarring.

Moving back and forth between the elder dragon story in expansions and more localized threats in LW would have also provide the narrative benefit of giving breathing space from the world ending threat.

They’ve done it done with the mop up season dealing with Caudecus and such, and the Joko storyline. But it’s not distinct enough from the main story that players can feel they are spending extra to get bonus material, and not feel left out of the story if they don’t.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[The Boz.2038]

Expansion is expansion, living story is DLC. Expansion doesn't include DLC.

[kharmin.7683]

6 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Expansion is expansion, living story is DLC. Expansion doesn't include DLC.

I think most around here are in agreement on that fact.  What is at issue is how Anet advertises that difference.

[mercury ranique.2170]

10 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Other gaming companies package their products better so you can see what you're going to get before you spend money on them. GuildWars2 sells a 'complete' package that's missing huge chunks of the game.

You're right that paying for LW is fine, but man do they not present it effectively. I hope that's something they intend to fix this year.

I do not believe many mmorpg's are giving a good insight in the cost involved to play and costs to maintain progress. So comparing it to other games goes akward.

What GW2 does well is:
No monthly fees
no pay to win
no vertical progression
Low pricing and very high quality and play hours per dollar.

 

What GW2 lacks is:
insight in the costs of unlocking every bit of content, or a full content package to buy it all.

[Fueki.4753]

13 hours ago, edelweiss.2637 said:

(Sorry bad english)

So i recently brought all the expansions and was doing the story, However since buying the expansion Don't give me access to living world i can't follow the lore of the game.

 

why there's a paywall inside the expansion i paid? is like I'm buying half the expansion. i can't understand the lore cause there's a massive gap in what i can access.

 

I'm very disappointed that i can't see all the lore of the game when i brought all the expansions.

 

GW2 is not the only MMORPG with additional costs.

Even the biggest two, WoW and FF14, have additional costs in form of subscriptions/play time.

And unlike those subscriptions, you can buy living world episodes with reasonable amounts of gold.

[Blade Syphon.4325]

11 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

This is a very very cheap price. If you played WoW for 3 months, you'd be spending $50 or whatever on the game itself, plus $15 a month for the 2nd two months. That is WOW would cost you about $80 not $30 for that same entry level price.

 

That's not entirely accurate. The entry price for WoW is simply the $15 monthly fee after your first month for access to everything in the game except for the most current expansion. Given that a brand new player to WoW might not want to immediatly jump into Shadowlands, that's actually an extremely reasonable price of entry. The Base Edition of Shadowlands is also only $40, ten dollars more than the PoF bundle, and ten dollars cheaper than the complete GW2 collection. So really the pricing is more or less identical - the only difference between the two games is that you pay monthly for WoW (and let's be honest, $15 a month shouldn't be a barrier of entry for anyone anymore actually interested in playing the game).

 

Pointless nit-picking comparisons aside - I do think Anet should do an all in one bundle that features the three expansions, as well as the LS Seasons, or at the very least a bundle of all the LS Seasons together, rather than charging individually for each Season package. The price of entry to gain access to all of GW2's content is close to $100 when bought in bulk, which is a bit of a steep cost, all things considered.

[mythical.6315]

OP should play ESO where the story arcs can start or end with the DLCs. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Xelqypla.6817]

You can't access LWS1, but the gripe is ALWAYS about the other ones you can buy.

Makes me believe it's not about the story at all.

[yoguil.7320]

41 minutes ago, Blade Syphon.4325 said:

So really the pricing is more or less identical - the only difference between the two games is that you pay monthly for WoW (and let's be honest, $15 a month shouldn't be a barrier of entry for anyone anymore actually interested in playing the game).

Your math seems a little weird to me. Playing GW2 for almost 10 years now did cost me something like 250 bucks (don't remember whether I always bought the superduper deluxe edition of the game at launch and every expansion). Would I've been playing WoW instead the monthly fee alone would have piled up to 1800 bucks. That's far from "more or less identical", wouldn't you say?

Anyway, when we talk about LS in GW2 I think the general conception in the playerbase is Anet should a.) be more clear about what's bundled in a package and b.) offer something like an "expansion+" package for 5 to 10 bucks more (per expack) that includes the appropriate previous LS season.

[Diovid.9506]

26 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

You can't access LWS1, but the gripe is ALWAYS about the other ones you can buy.

Makes me believe it's not about the story at all.

 

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

GW2 is not the only MMORPG with additional costs.

Even the biggest two, WoW and FF14, have additional costs in form of subscriptions/play time.

And unlike those subscriptions, you can buy living world episodes with reasonable amounts of gold.

The gripe is about clarity of Anet's communication concerning what is and isn't included in terms of story, maps, mounts and the like with expansion purchases.

 

It's not about there being additional costs, the costs are fine. But people who are new to the game will not be aware of those additional costs. 

[KeoLegend.5132]

14 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

I'm always sad about that. 

Other gaming companies like Nintendo can sell games with 5h of content for 60 bucks. 

But when an MMO company sells a game with 1000 hours of content for 15 bucks and then asked to you to pay like 5 dollars for multiple hours of extra content it is not OK? 

Why can console gamers afford a new game every week but MMO players apparently can't. 

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

the issue is not the cost, its the model.

 

Nobody would argue if they for example sold HoT + LWS2 for an extra 5 bucks.

They are mad because they sell HoT as "the whole thing" and then ppl discover that they are missing content (IF THEY EVER DISCOVER IT)

 

Living World sales outside the Expansions is the single dumbest thing Anet ever made

[Xelqypla.6817]

15 minutes ago, Diovid.9506 said:

 

The gripe is about clarity of Anet's communication concerning what is and isn't included in terms of story, maps, mounts and the like with expansion purchases.

 

It's not about there being additional costs, the costs are fine. But people who are new to the game will not be aware of those additional costs. 

 

How is Elder Scrolls Online any different?

Though the main difference is GW2 is far more complex. Including a mount in ESO and including a mount in GW2 are two different ballgames. However, someone new to the game has no way of understanding it unless the research and if they were researching anyway, the whole point of "more communication" becomes moot.

[Vayne.8563]

6 hours ago, Blade Syphon.4325 said:

 

That's not entirely accurate. The entry price for WoW is simply the $15 monthly fee after your first month for access to everything in the game except for the most current expansion. Given that a brand new player to WoW might not want to immediatly jump into Shadowlands, that's actually an extremely reasonable price of entry. The Base Edition of Shadowlands is also only $40, ten dollars more than the PoF bundle, and ten dollars cheaper than the complete GW2 collection. So really the pricing is more or less identical - the only difference between the two games is that you pay monthly for WoW (and let's be honest, $15 a month shouldn't be a barrier of entry for anyone anymore actually interested in playing the game).

 

Pointless nit-picking comparisons aside - I do think Anet should do an all in one bundle that features the three expansions, as well as the LS Seasons, or at the very least a bundle of all the LS Seasons together, rather than charging individually for each Season package. The price of entry to gain access to all of GW2's content is close to $100 when bought in bulk, which is a bit of a steep cost, all things considered.

The price isn't identical though.  If I play WoW for 1 year I play $180 plus the price of at least one expansion.  If I play Guild Wars 2 for 1 year it's significantly less than that.

[Dante.1508]

Yeah this was always crazy.. No wonder there is a population issue to this game. This design literally wipes out any hope of following the story.. unless you were in game since release or are very rich.

8 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

OP should play ESO where the story arcs can start or end with the DLCs. 

Yes but the DLCs in ESO are all separate stories not interconnected as much as GW2.. if you miss a DLC in ESO its not that Jarring like it is here, miss stuff here and you are totally lost and confused, lore and story wise.. Its very poorly implemented.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Ledi.9742]

it still baffles me that they are not just selling a bundle that actually has the full game rather than than wrapping 1/3 of the game's story content into bundle and presenting it as if it was the complete bundle for the full game and complete story.

its just misleading and confusing for players. every single time new friend gets into the game, i need to sit them down and explain them that the expansions will not get them the whole story, and they need to pay extra to get the full story.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Mutisija.5017

[mythical.6315]

35 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

Yes but the DLCs in ESO are all separate stories not interconnected as much as GW2.. if you miss a DLC in ESO its not that Jarring like it is here, miss stuff here and you are totally lost and confused, lore and story wise.. Its very poorly implemented.

 

Not true.  They're part of the storylines in a lot of cases.

[Xelqypla.6817]

27 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

Yeah this was always crazy.. No wonder there is a population issue to this game. This design literally wipes out any hope of following the story.. unless you were in game since release or are very rich.

Yes but the DLCs in ESO are all separate stories not interconnected as much as GW2.. if you miss a DLC in ESO its not that Jarring like it is here, miss stuff here and you are totally lost and confused, lore and story wise.. Its very poorly implemented.

ESO is so much worse. Notable NPCs are captured or dead, but show up like there's nothing amiss. Not hard to do quests out of order which ends up very confusing.

[Dante.1508]

22 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

ESO is so much worse. Notable NPCs are captured or dead, but show up like there's nothing amiss. Not hard to do quests out of order which ends up very confusing.

True but for me ESO was a lot cheaper than GW2 the only reason i Quit Eso was because their mega server made it unplayable as Australian due to latency.

The DLCs and such were not a big deal sub wise. Pay for sub do DLCs follow stories then cancel sub.. GW2 has cost me far more than $1800 over the 9 years i've been here.

[Xelqypla.6817]

37 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

True but for me ESO was a lot cheaper than GW2 the only reason i Quit Eso was because their mega server made it unplayable as Australian due to latency.

The DLCs and such were not a big deal sub wise. Pay for sub do DLCs follow stories then cancel sub.. GW2 has cost me far more than $1800 over the 9 years i've been here.

Since you get the Living World for free if you log in while it's current and you can covert Gold to Gems, what did you spend $1800 on?